DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[Friends just call me Ross]

15:02Examined color photographs - still images of video, testifying to the planted of extremist materials in the service building. Novakov representative drew attention to a single scheme, for which the whole country is covered by planted.

15:07Another characteristic feature of planted - false witnesses. One example - a notarized certificate of friendship of one of the witnesses to an FSB officer in the social network.

[Alexa]

Simplied translation via google

15:02 Color photographs are viewed - freeze frames of video materials, testifying about the throws of extremist materials into the liturgical buildings. Representative Novakov draws attention to a single scheme, according to which flips were carried out across the country.

15:07 Another characteristic feature of planting is false witnesses. One example is the notarized evidence of the friendship of one of the witnesses with the FSB officer in the social network

To all, probably this one

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/russia/police-planting-evidence-video/ 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Alexa

[Alexa]

15:08 In the village of Kurdzhinovo (Karachay-Cherkessia), three believers were fined on the basis of false witness statements. Subsequently, these witnesses repented and gave a receipt that they gave knowingly false testimony under the pressure of law enforcement. Novakov points out that the receipt is available in the materials of this case.

15:13 Omelchenko draws attention to the court decision handed down in Voronezh. The court gave a correct assessment of the fact that the extremist materials found stuck under the carpet weighed on the floor were clearly planted. As the Voronezh court noted in its decision, the fact that the witnesses profess the same religion does not give grounds for doubting the authenticity of their testimony.

15:16 Omelchenko returns to the question, which was raised a little earlier, at 14:45. He shows the court a number of protocols of different MPOs. These protocols vary greatly in form. The court asks the representative of the Ministry of Justice whether the department has doubts that there are protocols that differ in registration. There is no doubt. The court also does not doubt.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Alexa

[DinaG.]

2 minutes ago, Alexa said:

15:08 In the village of Kurdzhinovo (Karachay-Cherkessia), three believers were fined on the basis of false witness statements. Subsequently, these witnesses repented and gave a receipt that they gave knowingly false testimony under the pressure of law enforcement. Novakov points out that the receipt is available in the materials of this case.

15:13 Omelchenko draws attention to the court decision handed down in Voronezh. The court gave a correct assessment of the fact that the extremist materials found stuck under the carpet weighed on the floor were clearly planted. As the Voronezh court noted in its decision, the fact that the witnesses profess the same religion does not give grounds for doubting the authenticity of their testimony.

15:16 Omelchenko returns to the question, which was raised a little earlier, at 14:45. He shows the court a number of protocols of different MPOs. These protocols vary greatly in form. The court asks the representative of the Ministry of Justice whether the department has doubts that there are protocols that differ in registration. There is no doubt. The court also does not doubt.

[Alexa]

15:20 The representative of Toporov draws attention to the fact that the decision to liquidate the Birobidzhan MPO was made in the trial involving the same representative of the Ministry of Justice, S. Borisova. The CA was not involved in the case, as its rights are not affected. Therefore, it is surprising that in this process, the Ministry of Justice changed its position and applied the decision on Birobidzhan's MRO to the UC.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Alexa

[Alexa]

15:25 The documents signed by various international and domestic bodies and organizations are examined and express concern about the application of anti-extremist legislation to Jehovah's Witnesses. Omelchenko reads out the most characteristic excerpts from these documents, including appeals to the Russian Federation to stop the political persecution of believers.

[Vinnie]

this is amazing that we are able to follow along , almost in real time, and even have it translated for us to English  and many other languages so fast, for the world to see. Russia is no longer behind an iron curtain. When all is said and done, the outcome will circle the globe like a flash of lightning from east to west, .....or is it west to east....

[campanula]

50 minutes go as 50 hours

[Alexa]

15:42 The court returns to the resolution of petitions previously claimed, but deferred. The representative of the Ministry of Justice asked to attach to the case 12 judgments, giving doctors the right to use donor blood for the treatment of minors. Representatives of the defendant believe that these decisions are not relevant. First, the rejection of blood transfusion is not related to the concept of "extremism" (there are no other grounds other than extremist activity, the Justice Ministry does not cite the ban on Jehovah's Witnesses). Secondly, the UC was not a party to those court cases and is not even mentioned in any of the decisions. Thirdly, the introduction of these decisions affects medical confidentiality. To give them an assessment, you will need to seek the consent of patients, as well as their medical records. In all decisions, without exception, it is said that parents wanted to treat their children and applied to medical institutions. About the refusal of treatment did not go to lie down. Lawyer Zhenkov draws attention to the fact that the ECHR ruling, which gives legal interpretation of the refusal of blood transfusions, gives examples of prohibitions in Islam and Orthodoxy that may be potentially hazardous to health. "However, the Justice Ministry does not come out with a lawsuit to liquidate the centralized organizations of these religions," notes Zhenkov.

15:59 The court refuses to include court decisions related to blood transfusion procedures.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Alexa

[Patinage]

they gave knowingly false testimony under the pressure of law enforcement

 

Lies are being uncovered ...

[Bluebell]

First, the rejection of blood transfusion is not related to the concept of "extremism" (there are no other grounds other than extremist activity, the Justice Ministry does not cite the ban on Jehovah's Witnesses).

he court refuses to include court decisions related to blood transfusion procedures.

 

 

WOW!!!

[Alexa]

16:10 The court decides on the attachment of copies of 28 acts of the prosecutor's response, namely warnings and warnings issued against various MPOs. These acts were carried out for many years, not only during the last 3 years.

[Alexa]

16:20 The court asks why the Ministry of Justice did not apply to local courts on these acts. The Ministry of Justice explains that the violations were minor or eliminated. Representatives of the respondent note that these acts are not connected with extremist activity. The court refuses to attach these acts to the case materials.

[Alexa]

 To all, 13:43 am in Moscow a while ago

      

[Alexa]

16:22 The court returns to the question of attaching a copy of the "internal" document of Jehovah's Witnesses, received by the Ministry of Justice from "open sources" (from NTV's website) to the case. Representatives of the CA confirm the authenticity of the text, explain the contents of this letter to the court, telling the order of believers' voluntary donations. They explain to the court what the "councils of elders" are and who are the "district overseers". Taking into account detailed explanations, the court decides to attach this document to the case materials.

[retroHelen]

20 hours ago, Adelin said:

It's embarrassing ...  

Russian media portray Jehovah's Witnesses as American spies

"Youths are sent on supposed survival expeditions in the guise of Jehovah's Witnesses. Literally 2 to 2.5 years ago they arrested such an expedition on the border of Pskov province, where they tried to collect information about military objects that are located on the border with the Baltic states. This information was instantly dispatched by instructors, and the instructors, naturally, were from American intelligence services," retired General Major Valery Malevanny, the vice-president of the Berkut Association of Veterans of Special Services, declared.

His quotable evidence seems to be actually Mormons/students and lumping us with them!  Mormons are quite active in American politics and the armed forces in USA - so spying by them would be harder for them to defend. I notice other reports say that their missionaries have been deported from Russia.

 

 If we were arrested camping in forests, then we were likely having a convention - I've seen footage on our forum with photographs of such events in the woods. Likely the authorities jumped to the conclusion and claim we were spying, because they caught other groups really spying.

 

Another case of not understanding how anyone cannot be neutral regarding politicsI remember we used to give out tracts here in the UK (1960s-70s), as well as USA, to show we were being arrested in the West as communist spies, whilst also being arrested in Soviet countries as American spies!! 

[Alexa]

16:35 In response to the statement of the representative of the Ministry of Justice that the decisions of the CA on the appointment of the chairpersons of the LROs are imperative, the representative of Toporov draws attention to the wording "recommends as the chairman of the LRO".

16:36 The representative of the Ministry of Justice asks to attach to the case an updated extract from the state register with an updated list of property of the UC and the MRO. The court gives the defendants 10 minutes to get acquainted with the extract.

16:38 A small technical break has been announced.

[Skye]

13 minutes ago, Alexa said:

16:22 The court returns to the question of attaching a copy of the "internal" document of Jehovah's Witnesses, received by the Ministry of Justice from "open sources" (from NTV's website) to the case.

Does anyone know what this "internal" document is?

[Margaret]

 

16:36.           The representative of the Ministry of Justice asks to attach to the case an updated extract from the state register with an updated list of property of the UC and MRO. The court gives the defendants 10 minutes to get acquainted with the extract.

16:38.         A small technical break has been announced.

[Alexa]

Just now, Skye said:

Does anyone know what this "internal" document is?

Internal document from an open source of NTV website, saying not our beliefs probably also the members but our lawyers might gave such details that can be attached  sis Skye

[Skye]

3 minutes ago, Alexa said:

Internal document from an open source of NTV website, saying not our beliefs probably also the members but our lawyers might gave such details that can be attached  sis Skye

Sounds like a letter to the body of elders discussing voluntary donations. Can't seem to connection this to district overseers, though.

[sunshine]

SIMPLIFIED VERSION:  Wednesday Morning Session

 

10"05 Our Lawyer begins by drawing attention to all the times Russian authorities have burst into our Kingdom Halls, breaking up our meetings for questioning and issuing warnings against their bible study.

 

10"15 Their Lawyers (Ministry of Justice=MoJ) wants the court to examine new documents they have dug up, still trying to prove the congregations are "branches" of the Bethel Russia HeadQuarters.  The brothers object to this "evidence", pointing out some of these documents date from 1998 the Bethel wasn't even registered under present laws.  The Brothers point out these documents were just so that the congregation's were legally in order.  The Judge accepts to examine the documents but not those that are really old (before 1998)

 

10"25  The first of these documents is the MoJ (Their Lawyers) again asking that the Russian Branch and all the congregations be banned.  The Judge asks if they have any new information to go with these "new documents" to justify doing this.  They have nothing.  Our Laywers point out that some of the property listed on the documents don't even belong to the Russian Branch.

 

-  Next they examine the document "The Beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses" and highlights the part that says we are told to be tolerant and show love for other people. The part that says we value giving our children an good education was also read aloud.

 

-  Next they look at the Branch Guidelines (?) and ask about the various congregations in Russia.  The Judge wants to know how many  JWs "unregistered" congregations or groups are there.  The brothers explain that the forming of a congregation is a spiritual not a legal matter and under Russian law religion and State are separate. The brothers don't keep legal documentation about congregations or groups, so they cannot give the Judge any more information on that question.

 

11"00 [After a short break]  The Court looks at various convictions against the Witnesses, including the famous case of the Taganrog congregation.  The accusations were that the Witnesses don't take blood, criticize other religions and don't perform their civic duties (join the army).  The brothers point out that this conviction was made before the law was changed that said that criticising religion cannot be considered "extremist".   They also point out that the books and brochures considered "extremist" in this case had nothing whatsoever "extremist" about them.  For example in the Brochure "Jehovah's Witnesses: Who are they"  they said it was "extremist" to say  "We do not take up arms" (join the army).

 

11"10  Our brothers point out that in many of the cases against the JWs congregations, the Russian Branch wasn't even mentioned, so how can the MoJ (Their Lawyers) be using these convictions against the Bethel (Russian Branch)?  And besides, some of those convictions were overturned (struck down) by  higher courts in Russia.

 

Next they look at the MoJ accusation that the Bethel were hiding information and secretly importing banned literature.  The Brothers point out that the Bethel gave the authority, the only information not provided was that which should come from the customs authorities not the brothers.

 

11"30 The MoJ says "Yes, but you didn't tell us about all your congregations" The Brothers respond, "We don't have to, that's a spiritual not a legal matter".

 

The JUDGE notices in the documents there is the Business report of the Bethel (what they do with their money).  The Judge wants do know why they included this.  The MoJ says "Because they might be using their money to to help extremists"  The Judge asks "Do you have any proof that the money may be used for extremist goals rather than perfectly legal one" The MoJ has no proof. Our Lawyer (Master Tapor (?)) says "Listen we had a full audit, everything was checked and found to be perfectly legal so why are these documents in there?" 

 

Our Lawyer Master Omelchenko adds "You say we might be funding "extremist": Can you provide the court with details:  How much money? Who did we give it to? When did we give this money? etc.  The MoJ says "Er well, no we don't have any such information.

 

11"45 The Brothers note in their documents they have a list of the property of Brothers and Sisters.  The Brothers ask why did you include this information.  Answer:  So if you are found guilty (as we hope) we can go ahead and take their houses.

 

11"50  The Court looks at letters and documents from authorities saying Thank you to the Witnesses for the good work they do in the community.  Their Lawyers says "Yeah well that's just a cover for your "missionary work".  Our Lawyers respond "Ok so when we give money to the congregations its "extremists" and when those same congregations help their communities is some kind of "dirty trick".  How can it be both?

 

11"55 Our Lawyer Master Zhenkov next shows that it was the same Ministry of Justice experts who in 1999 examined the Jehovah's Witnesses and said they could be recognized as a legal religion.  Are you now saying YOUR experts got it all wrong?

 

12"00  The brothers then point out the many many volumes of 70 experts that testify that Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT extremists.  For example one expert said  he found nothing wrong with our book "Mankind's Search for God" but it was banned nonetheless.  The MoJ responds, "Yes those experts are just giving their personal opinions"  Our Lawyer Master Omelchenko comes right back "That is incorrect, these experts were giving testifying as requested by courts, police and customs authorities"

 

12"15 Our Lawyers point to the terrible injustices that have been committed against the brothers.  Many of whom were put in jail for years only for the courts to later find them innocent and release them.  And now those same brothers and sisters risk going through the same thing again.

 

- Next our Lawyer Novekov points out the planting of banned literature in Kingdom Halls;  he gives the example of this happening in November 2016 which was even recorded by the security cameras.  

 

- Our Lawyer points out the that MoJ did nothing but rubber stamp (approve without examination) the claims of "extremist literature" whereever it came from in the country.

 

12"25 Their Lawyers bring up the blood issue.  The brothers point out that the ECHR (The Highest court in Europe) has fully examined the cases being brought up and that court found that no crime had been committed.  People have the legal right to refuse blood transfusions if they wish.

 

12"45  The Brothes point out the double standard when it comes to so-called "extremist" literature; we are not given a chance to defend ourselves when one of our books is declared "extremist" and once they are banned, our opposers  use those books  to try and close the Bethel.

 

13"00  The Brothers ask the Judge if he will accept to look at Video recordings that prove that the authorities planted banned literature in our Halls.  They give the example of a "plant" in Leznobloye.   The JUDGE wants to know, did you appeal the decision.   Our Lawyers:  We did, yes but no one will listen to us.  The JUDGE accepts to look at the evidence(the paperwork) but not the video recordings.  There's a lot of material (43 volumes)

 

The brothers read a statment that they are not extremist posted on the new JW-org Russian site (the old jw.org site was banned by the authorities).  The Court now knows that the Watchtower society owns this new site (www.jw-russia.org).

 

13"30 The Court examines more documents about the congregations.  Nothing proving anything illegal has been done by them.  Their Lawyers want to add the various police warnings that the congregations were given.

 

BREAK FOR LUNCH 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alexa]

1 minute ago, Skye said:

Sounds like a letter to the body of elders discussing voluntary donations. Can't seem to connection this to district overseers, though.

Yes, sounds like internal document beinb read to our congregation back then too, I am sorry  

[Dustparticle]

 

 I don't what is better. Will it be this topic or will it be me eating unleavened bread for this past week because there was whole box at the hall that will rot away.  Stay tune for more.

[Skye]

7 minutes ago, Alexa said:

Yes, sounds like internal document beinb read to our congregation back then too, I am sorry  

I too am not sure, dear Alexa. But if this is the case, it worries me that a confidential letter (nothing extreme in it though) was posted online, and was able to be acquired by NTV (who is this?) and is now being used against us in a court of law. 

 

I'm glad that this in this forum we are always reminded about this issue. Thanks Jerry (Old) and others who always remind us of this matter.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Skye