Finland wants JW's in Army

[steeringwheel]

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201809211068220658-finland-jehovah-witnesses-army/

[Qapla]

This news was reported by https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/jehovahs_witness_exemption_from_conscription_deemed_prejudicial_in_pivotal_ruling/10089261 on Feb 23, 2018 and updated the next day to add comments from the Justice Minister.

 

I did notice that the story on the sputniknews site made it a point to add an * with a footnote that says JW's are banned in Russia - the story found in the other link does not mention this

[GeordieGirl]

The title of this article is somewhat misleading

 

Finnish Jehovah's Witnesses* will be obliged to either serve in the nation's military or perform civil service on the same terms as everyone else ........

 

Isn't this the same as what brothers are doing in others countries that have the draft and what is trying to happen in South Korea instead of imprisonment?  

[carlos]

 

8 hours ago, GeordieGirl said:

The title of this article is somewhat misleading

Finnish Jehovah's Witnesses* will be obliged to either serve in the nation's military or perform civil service on the same terms as everyone else ........

Isn't this the same as what brothers are doing in others countries that have the draft and what is trying to happen in South Korea instead of imprisonment?  

Yes, it's the same that happens in most civilized countries that still have a military service.

 

Sputnik News, formerly "The Voice of Russia", is just a propaganda outlet. I mean, all media are, but this one is owned directly by the Russian government, so it's basically just Putin giving his opinion. Don't expect to read anything positive about JWs in that newspaper.

 

Apparently our brothers were exempt by law from any military service, while other consciencious objectors had to perform an alternative service for the community. Now some of these objectors are protesting that it's unfair, and I have to agree that it's hard to justify that some people are treated differently just because of their religion. I mean, it may be convenient for us but it's not fair. So our Finnish brothers will have to perform a civil service, the same as they do in most countries where military service is still compulsory.

 

I remember when military service was compulsory here in Spain we were offered a civil service as an alternative. I served for one year and a have at the Red Cross offices. It was basically working for free. A few years later the military service was abolished in Spain.

[Thesauron]

What kind of news source is Sputnik news?

[Tortuga]

2 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

What kind of news source is Sputnik news?

Sputnik is a news agency, news website platform and radio broadcast service established by the Russian government-owned news agency Rossiya Segodnya. Headquartered in Moscow, Sputnik has regional editorial offices in Washington, Cairo, Beijing, Singapore, London and Edinburgh

 

Good to know....

[jwhess]

In the USA (1960s through 1972) we had compulsory military service with a possible civilian alternative.  Unfortunately, the people who decided the "alternative"  would often choose options that did not meet conscience guidelines.  So a lot of brothers went to prison anyway.  There were "exemptions" written into the law in the US.  So I applied for a "deferment" based on being a 'minister of religion'.  It was turned down several times, my options for alternate service were turned down several times.  Finally, I provided the documentation they wanted and was declared an "ordained minister" and exempt from service.  So my "non-service" would be fair to those (even witnesses) who had other outcomes.

 

I followed the law, met the requirements and passed exemption or was deferred.  This meant that I would always be subject to recall at any time if my deferment was deemed no longer appropriate.  I do not know the Finnish law.  Do they make exceptions for ministers?  If so, there is no inherent "unfairness" in following a law that they state has passed.  If someone else (in another religion) wanted to be a carpenter instead of a priest, he should not feel the witness brother was getting off easy.

 

If there is no such law on the books for JWs in Finland, and they just gave us a "free pass", that would be unfair.

[Thesauron]

Sputnik is a news agency, news website platform and radio broadcast service established by the Russian government-owned news agency Rossiya Segodnya. Headquartered in Moscow, Sputnik has regional editorial offices in Washington, Cairo, Beijing, Singapore, London and Edinburgh
 
Good to know....

I wonder what interest the Russian government has in spreading things like this?

[Tortuga]

25 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

I wonder what interest the Russian government has in spreading things like this?

Possibly justifying their own actions. If they can find ways to sway public opinion against us, it makes it easier for them to do what they want. In this case they are highlighting how our brothers had been getting "special treatment". 

 

Besides that, now they know who you are and where you live...

Edited October 2, 2018 by Tortuga

[Thomas Walker]

This week's Watchtower: "Do You Have The Facts?"

[Qapla]

According to some sources there have been many JW's leave Russia for Finland. It could be that Russia would like to have that exit destination curtailed.

[Thesauron]

According to some sources there have been many JW's leave Russia for Finland. It could be that Russia would like to have that exit destination curtailed.

They are spreading it in English, not in Russian, though.

[carlos]

7 hours ago, Thesauron said:

They are spreading it in English, not in Russian, though.

Besides compulsory military service is just for nationals, not refugees or any foreign residents.

[Thesauron]

Besides compulsory military service is just for nationals, not refugees or any foreign residents.

So the reason is not to deter people fleeing the country? Political?

[carlos]

2 hours ago, Thesauron said:

So the reason is not to deter people fleeing the country? Political?

Johan, I was agreeing with you (without setting a precedent ) and giving an additional reason why I didn't think that news is advertized to discourage the friends from leaving Russia. As you say, if that were the purpose the article would be in Russian. Besides, I don't think the Russian governments cares if JWs leave the country. They knew it would happen.

[Thesauron]

Johan, I was agreeing with you (without setting a precedent ) and giving an additional reason why I didn't think that news is advertized to discourage the friends from leaving Russia. As you say, if that were the purpose the article would be in Russian. Besides, I don't think the Russian governments cares if JWs leave the country. They knew it would happen.

Yes, this I understand. We should still keep doubting and questioning whatever the Russian government says about matters involving us.

[sunshine]

As long as there is alternative civil service not under the responsibility of the military I don't believe this is a problem.  I think that as we move to the tribulation military service will become a major issue... 

[ChocoBro]

18 hours ago, sunshine said:

As long as there is alternative civil service not under the responsibility of the military I don't believe this is a problem.  I think that as we move to the tribulation military service will become a major issue... 

 

Yes, pay back Caesar's things to Caesar but God's things to God. We need to weigh all of the factors, however. Who is employing us? The Church, the Military, or is it the Municipal Office? What kind of work will we be doing? Will we remain politically neutral?

 

What did Jesus mean when he said to go the second mile?

▪ In his famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus recommended: “If someone under authority impresses you into service for a mile, go with him two miles.” (Matthew 5:41) Jesus’ listeners likely recognized that statement as a reference to compulsory service, which an authority could demand from citizens.

In the first century C.E., Israel was occupied by the Romans. They did not hesitate to press men or animals into service or to commandeer anything else they considered necessary in order to expedite official business. For example, Roman soldiers obliged Simon of Cyrene to carry Jesus’ torture stake to the site of his execution. (Matthew 27:32) Such impositions were oppressive, highly unpopular, and bitterly resented by the Jews.

Just how far citizens could be compelled to carry a load is unknown. It is hard to imagine, though, that they would have been willing to go any farther than strictly required. So when Jesus urged his listeners to go the second mile, so to speak, he was telling them to perform without resentment those services that authorities legitimately demanded.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012244#h=5

 

As long as there is alternative civil service not under the responsibility of the military I don't believe this is a problem.  I think that as we move to the tribulation military service will become a major issue...