El Paso, TX and Dayton, OH Mass Shootings (combined)

[BenJepthah]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

A newscaster said the shootings are becoming common but are not normal. I thought that was a very interesting statement. 

Calling it “ normal” is somehow wrong. I doubt even the perpetrators of these heinous acts would call themselves normal . But they are more frequent in the last couple years especially.  

[Hope]

4 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

I’m not equalizing them at all. In fact snake bites are rarely fatal. What I am pointing out is that neither event is as common as we are made to feel that they are. And , while both are completely preventable , neither will be prevented in this system. So to live in morbid fear is simply unwarranted. We should weep with those who are weeping ( I too have lost a loved  to gun violence). We should not let exaggeration and distortion from Satan’s fear based system keep us in terror. And , again, Jehovah’s Kingdom is THE answer ( to both). 

      I’m glad you said ( supposedly). 

 

How many shootings does it take for them to become "common"?  We've had more than one per day within these past seven months.  Sounds "common" to me.

 

Definitely not "normal", though.  I hate for these things to be considered normal.  Even those non-stop bombings in Syria are not "normal".  It is not as it should be.

 

We often use the words “normal” and “common” interchangeably. Common tends to refer to those things that are widespread or frequent. While similar aches and pains may be common, it doesn’t necessarily have to be normal. Normal implies natural or adhering to a standard.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Hope

[BenJepthah]

5 minutes ago, Hope said:

 

How many shootings does it take for them to become "common"?  We've had more than one per day within these past seven months.  Sounds "common" to me.

 

Definitely not "normal", though.  I hate for these things to be considered normal.  Even those non-stop bombings in Syria are not "normal".  It is not as it should be.

 

We often use the words “normal” and “common” interchangeably. Common tends to refer to those things that are widespread or frequent. While similar aches and pains may be common, it doesn’t necessarily have to be normal. Normal implies natural or adhering to a standard.

Glad to see we are in agreement.

[Bek]

4 hours ago, Tortuga said:

A newscaster said the shootings are becoming common but are not normal. I thought that was a very interesting statement. 

That is interesting. I have just googled "mass shootings have become the norm" and "mass shootings have become normal" and mass shootings have become normalized" with quotation marks. Surprisingly, all of them have been used in the media to describe the scourge of mass shootings in the US. Media outlets like New York Post, Huffington Post and others have used "the norm". Even Bernie Sanders has been quoted as saying that "mass shootings have become normal". 

 

I have also looked at the number of mass shootings in the US since 2015. The figures are mind-boggling. 372 in 2015, 382 in 2016, 346 in 2017, 340 in 2018 and 292 so far in 2019. 

 

Saying that mass shootings have become "common" is a huge understatement. I think it is an attempt to make the problem (white supremacy), and the deaths of those innocent victims, seem less than they are. 

 

Here is an interesting article on why the US will continue having mass shootings.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41489552

[Qapla]

Just what is a "mass shooting"?

[Sheep]

11 minutes ago, Qapla said:

Just what is a "mass shooting"?

There doesn't seem to be a universally accepted definition, according to Wikipedia.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019#Definitions

[Qapla]

So, as "Mass shooting", by this list, would seem to include:

• gang violence
• a robbery gone wrong
• neighbors having a dispute
• other crimes

However, if you were to ask the average person on the street, they would call a "mass shooting" something like what happened at Walmart in El Paso ... not a gang drive-by or a crime like a robbery where more than one person was shot.

[Bek]

After a bit of further research, I have learnt that "mass shootings" like the ones that happened over the last few days in the US are actually categorised as "public mass shootings" and they do not happen as often as I have been led to believe. For example, during Obama's 8 years in office, there were 14 such mass shootings. All the other hundreds of mass shootings that happen every year fall under the category of crimes that involve the killing of 3 or more people with a firearm. 

 

I think there would be no confusion if the US distinguished "public mass shootings" that pursue political goals from general shootings. Lumping them together makes many people think that the issue is far bigger than it is. 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Hun

[Shawnster]

51 minutes ago, Hun said:

I think there would be no confusion if the US distinguished "public mass shootings" that pursue political goals from general shootings. Lumping them together makes many people think that the issue is far bigger than it is. 

 

 

We in the US understand the difference.  It's the media and statisticians that confuse the situation. 

 

The crimes involving shooting of 3 or more people are not reported in the US to the same degree (national news) as these public mass shootings are.   

[BenJepthah]

11 hours ago, Hun said:

 

Saying that mass shootings have become "common" is a huge understatement. I think it is an attempt to make the problem (white supremacy), and the deaths of those innocent victims, seem less than they are. 

And that’s were you have been deceived brother. In the vast majority of these cases the social media accounts have indicated persons with complex psychological problems who have No link to “ white supremacy “ and in some instances the shooters are actually PRO gun control. ( which means they are probably OBSESSED with gun violence). The Dayton shooter is a prime example: Pro gun control, supporter of political candidate deemed ( left) who is pro gun control. History of indicators of violent tendencies ( had a kill list and a rape list previously). Killed his own sister. Supporting statements toward Antifa ( an arguably violent left leaning organization being considered for addition to a terrorist watchlist).  The El Paso shooter is arguably a white supremist , but also obsessed with environmentalist ideas which he used to justify what amounted horribly to a form of population control ( to save natural resources). He was an outlier as demonstrated by the fact that he was not seeking death by cop. Nearly all the others clearly were.  Further, the percentage of mass shooters generally follows the demographics of the population ( Caucasian, Black, Asian, are all represented). The Garlic festival shooter was of Italian and Middle Eastern descent .  

1 hour ago, Hun said:

After a bit of further research, I have learnt that "mass shootings" like the ones that happened over the last few days in the US are actually categorised as "public mass shootings" and they do not happen as often as I have been led to believe. For example, during Obama's 8 years in office, there were 14 such mass shootings. All the other hundreds of mass shootings that happen every year fall under the category of crimes that involve the killing of 3 or more people with a firearm. 

 

I think there would be no confusion if the US distinguished "public mass shootings" that pursue political goals from general shootings. Lumping them together makes many people think that the issue is far bigger than it is. 

 

 

Yes! Yes! You’ve got it!

[Shawnster]

18 minutes ago, BenJepthah said:

And that’s were you have been deceived brother.

But they have become common, though.  Even limiting it to the public mass shootings it seems like we're seeing them each year.  Definitely more than we saw 20 years or more ago.

[BenJepthah]

10 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

But they have become common, though.  Even limiting it to the public mass shootings it seems like we're seeing them each year.  Definitely more than we saw 20 years or more ago.

Definitely more common, and in nearly every case they have one common denominator ( they ain’t us). ( They aren’t even religious at all typically, and many have Atheist ideologies). This is what makes them vulnerable to Satan’s program of brain warping violence. 

    The deception is primarily in the media’s portrayal that mass shootings are majority motivated by racial hatred. They are very very frequently a product of early onset schizophrenia married to a background of violence or obsession with violent media. Violence of every sort Unsurprisingly has become more common. “ Mass shootings in public places “ defined by four or more persons killed have been increasing but not at the rate media often portrays ( probably for political reasons). The other kind of mass shootings: drive byes, at parties, gang related, etc. are also increasing but if portrayed for what they are may swing public opinions in a different ( not politically advantageous) direction. So the media kind of cherry picks the coverage. And never notes the obvious common denominator.

[BenJepthah]

35 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

But they have become common, though.  Even limiting it to the public mass shootings it seems like we're seeing them each year.  Definitely more than we saw 20 years or more ago.

In the 1980’s ( before columbine and the “ Assault Weapons Ban” ) . Guns were easy to obtain: my teenage friend bought an AK-47 and a case of ammo for $20. They were common on public school grounds. Most of my friends carried some form of firearm ( not me). And they were never used in violence. People settled their disputes with their fists as it was considered unmanly to use a gun for this purpose and no one actually wanted to permanently harm anyone. Also, in that time period , most students were at least nominal Christians. People prayed over their lunch in school.  Life was not so cheap. To solve the underlying problem requires a spiritual adjustment. 

     Did you notice my

mention of the “ Assault Weapons ban”? It will probably come as a surprise but The US did ban “ Assault weapons” for about ten years! My friend above buried his AK-47and exhumed it ten years later. The ban was lifted when violent crime continued to rise and it was deemed unproductive to ban weapons of that sort. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by BenJepthah

[JennyM]

People have more sensitive conscience back then @BenJepthah

[Cheeks]

Regardless of what a mass shooting technically is or is not, one thing that cannot be denied is the fact that violence of this nature is definitely on the rise & is getting worse.

 

Couple peoples access to automatic weapons, twisted ideas, drugs, perhaps mental illness, demonism, the list can go on - all contribute to what we have seen and will continue to see rising as this old system chugs along.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

[Bek]

10 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

And that’s were you have been deceived brother. In the vast majority of these cases the social media accounts have indicated persons with complex psychological problems who have No link to “ white supremacy “ and in some instances the shooters are actually PRO gun control. ( which means they are probably OBSESSED with gun violence). The Dayton shooter is a prime example: Pro gun control, supporter of political candidate deemed ( left) who is pro gun control. History of indicators of violent tendencies ( had a kill list and a rape list previously). Killed his own sister. Supporting statements toward Antifa ( an arguably violent left leaning organization being considered for addition to a terrorist watchlist).  The El Paso shooter is arguably a white supremist , but also obsessed with environmentalist ideas which he used to justify what amounted horribly to a form of population control ( to save natural resources). He was an outlier as demonstrated by the fact that he was not seeking death by cop. Nearly all the others clearly were.  Further, the percentage of mass shooters generally follows the demographics of the population ( Caucasian, Black, Asian, are all represented). The Garlic festival shooter was of Italian and Middle Eastern descent .  

Yes! Yes! You’ve got it!

Yes, I was deceived by the US government's statistics and major media organisations. 

 

I won't go into the causes of mass shootings. Researching it is not worth it. But public mass shootings are still too common in the US, as Obama said, "without parallel in the world". 

 

As for white supremacy, it is a big issue in the US. So there is no denying that.  

[BenJepthah]

6 hours ago, Hun said:

As for white supremacy, it is a big issue in the US. So there is no denying that

It’s AN issue , as are other variants of racism. I liv in Indiana ( once it was the headquarters of the ally Klux Klan) a nasty white supremist Organization founded in the South during the Reconstitution era after the civil war .( you might be very surprised by whom but I’ll leave that to you). But in 50 years I have as yet to actually see any indicator that anyone I’ve met is a KKK member. Except for three people on different occasions that had Tatoos with white supremist designs and one of those persons said he was drunk in South Korea when that mistake happened. I’ve seen a few confederate flags and that’s it!  A few years ago new Nazi groups began to show up to demonstrate at public events. But these groups are poorly supported and typically find no sympathy. Sometimes they are shouted down by ordinary people in the area .  And one last thing, if white Supremacy was influential at all then how did the majority of Caucasian Americans elect Obama?  It’s a problem, yes , just not a concern outside of the political spectrum. I’m quite certain that they are no more common in the US than they are in most European countries. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by BenJepthah

[Lee49]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/10/americas/mexico-coahuila-school-shooting/index.html

 

Children seem to be getting younger and younger in these shootings!

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Lee49

[BenJepthah]

On 8/4/2019 at 8:02 AM, JennyM said:

how do u preach in your place without the fear of shooting? 😲

 

 

 

Think about this. You asked this question about 6 months ago.  Apart from the city of Chicago which is just one long slow mass shooting. Have you seen any press about any new mass shootings? 

[Lee49]

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2020-01-14/2-dead-1-hurt-1-detained-in-california-apartment-shooting

 

2 Dead, 1 Hurt, 1 Detained in California Apartment Shooting

Two men were killed and another was wounded in a shooting at an apartment complex in Southern California.

 

https://www.dailybulletin.com/?returnUrl=https://www.dailybulletin.com/2020/01/14/gunfire-in-ontario-apartment-building-leaves-2-men-dead-1-injured/?clearUserState=true

 

2 dead, 1 injured in Ontario apartment shooting

A fourth man has been detained and is being questioned by police.

[Lee49]

This is one sick mass killing! - And people think of us as a cult! - warning gruesome!

Pregnant woman and six children tortured and killed by a religious cult in Panama, authorities say

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/17/americas/panama-religious-sect-killings-scli-intl/index.html

[Lee49]

Another one!

4 killed, 1 wounded in Utah shooting

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/17/us/utah-grantsville-shooting/index.html

[Lee49]

 

Boy arrested after shooting that killed 4 in small Utah town ^

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/01/18/juvenile-arrested-after-4-people-killed-grantsville-utah-shooting/4514274002/

[Tortuga]

On 1/17/2020 at 12:44 PM, Lee49 said:

This is one sick mass killing! - And people think of us as a cult! - warning gruesome!

Pregnant woman and six children tortured and killed by a religious cult in Panama, authorities say

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/17/americas/panama-religious-sect-killings-scli-intl/index.html

Why did this need to be posted on a JW forum? 

[Lee49]

"Why did this need to be posted on a JW forum? " ^    I thought the topic was on "mass shootings/killings" this stood out to me because of the fact it's not only a "mass killing" but is also religiously connected! I did state warning gruesome! so as a moderator you could have deleted it no? sorry if it was inappropriate

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