What do you think of brothers wearing cologne? (or perfume)

[EccentricM]

Perhaps it's a modern practice in Asia @Bek?

 

Using scents when bathing and to act as deodorant is not a modern Western invention, it goes back to the dawn of man and was done in Asia in ancient times.

 

https://knowledgenuts.com/2013/12/05/the-ancient-egyptians-actually-created-deodorant/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deodorant

 

Quote

 

Early deodorants

Alum has been used as a deodorant throughout history in Thailand, the Far East, Mexico, and other countries

 

https://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/men/sweating-odor/first-deodorant.htm

 

Quote

Alcohol-based, perfumed deodorants were developed in the Middle East and made their way to Europe in the 13th century

https://www.hygieneforhealth.org.au/deodorant.php

 

Quote

Rock salt deodorant. Rock salt was a popular underarm deodorant in some parts of Asia. It decreased body odour by killing underarm bacteria.

 

So, even if scientifically those in Asian may smell "less", it seems they still had a need to use some sort of scent or deodorant that was "suitable enough" to cover up some sort of smell, even if less pungent in comparison to the West. I read that in Japan they have items "labelled" as deodorant in their stores, but was not suitable for Western people (for the reasons you mentioned), but it does show they "do" have body odor still, which can be smelled if not adressed.

 

So it boils down to: All people smell, just some smell more than others 😄

Edited October 9, 2019 by EccentricM

[SUNRAY]

2 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

Baking Soda (Bicarbonate Soda), not to be confused with baking powder, is an exellent deodorant and doesn't make people ill or chesty. If you apply the right ammount after a shower, it can last a decent ammount of time.

 

I tested it out by putting some on and then working out a long time in clothes, and I didn't smell a thing under my arms whereas I usually would if going without anything. Of course some people sweat more excessively than others, but it's a good option to try if people want something natural that works without harming others.

I whole heartedly agree! My husband and I have been using baking soda for decades! (We use tea tree liquid soap.) Once an elder in our congregation mentioned this to our congregation!! None of our elders use deoderant with any odor. Rarely do I detect fragrances in our hall. We also have an excellent AC system with fresh air intake and air exchange. After years of moving to different congregations, we finally found this hall and have been here going on 12 years!!! (Able to sit in main hall..not sequestered in another room). Thank you Jehovah!! Something to think about..A person does not have to wear fragranced products in order to attend a meeting...If I knew there was someone who was allergic to the color "yellow", I would not wear a yellow dress. I would never want to knowingly do something to cause even anxiety to anyone. 😌

[Hotteok]

I never imagined this topic could lead to allergies.. (another important lesson for me)

Because most Koreans don't have allergy to anything. 

Some do, but not as much as Caucasians do. 

 

I've never heard a thing such as having an allergy to perfume growing up in Korea.

Most who do complain do so out of dizziness or just because they hate the smell itself.

 

But I'll be more cautious before I wear any cologne next time around a westerner. 

Allergy is a more serious problem because of its medical nature, than simply hating fragrance. 

[kejedo]

1 hour ago, Tryin'SoHardToBeSpiritual said:

Allergy is a more serious problem because of its medical nature, than simply hating fragrance. 

I have been accused of not liking things that "smell pretty." Wrong, my reaction to the synthetics (chemicals) in fragranced products is life threatening. This was observed in a clinical setting, long ago, when I had been given nebulizer treatment in an emergency med center and a 'fuming' nurse came in to take a blood sample. I went back into into a gasping episode. The doctor said that the nurse's fragrance had put me into a dangerous condition and asked her to leave. He gave me another neb treatment or two. I have also had to leave KH and go straight to the hospital. Yes, years ago, fragrance was more expensive and made from natural products like ambergris and real flowers. We have no genuine nard, these days.  These have been replaced by synthetic bases. The price of perfume is not an indication of how toxic its contents are. Anything that says fragrance on its ingredients  may indicate up to a thousand chemicals in its contents. Those fragranced lotions are relentless, and yes, I know Sisters don't want to be ashy and that is more important to them than putting someone in a life threatening medical emergency.  Of course that gives me confidence that they would give up their life for me, but not their fragrance.    I also have several lung problems, (born premature with small lungs, sarcoidosis, and of course that anaphylaxes and those allergies.) My pulmonologists have said it is not safe for them to surgically  go into my lungs again. Medically, the synthetics lodge and give me chemical pneumonia and/ or lung poisoning. Essential oils sit heavily in my lungs and can seriously affect my health. The word essential does not mean free from synthetics/ chemicals.  I usually carry two epi-pens but am down to one right now. I may need to get a new RX because one may only buy me a limited amount of time and not make it to a hospital.   My understanding of the chemistry is that the processing of fragrances is to make them waft(diffuse)  away from the wearer. It is invading the air and can be damaging the breathing for others. Things that wash off like shampoo may smell some, but are not generally as invasive to others. Stick-to-it formulae as in deodorant are frequently less wafting, as they are designed to stay on the wearer. Most soaps also wash off, but Irish Spring can fill a surrounding space with toxins. I had a difficult night after last night's meeting- puffed up eyes, itchy all night, coughing and sneezing, but not an ER run.  Some guests in attendance added to the toxic load.  This morning, CO put me in a group with a fragrance wearer. She may have cut down since moving here, but her clothing is like a plugged in fragrance diffuser. I had to privately and discreetly ask the CO to switch my group. There are times when I  have had to go home and miss service altogether. A former special pioneer Sis kicked me out of her car group because she "likes her perfume."  In our Assembly hall, we have a handicapped rest room that is labeled 'fragrance free.' I might put a pic up, but I am having picture/digital probs. Generally soap and water clean is attractive and pleasing to all. I hope people reading this believe that this is a real health danger, and even if you don't care if you are endangering your brothers and sisters, please do some research and maybe consider not willfully adding these toxins to Jehovah's beautiful atmosphere. Personally, I have asked the elders for no memorial talk should I decease in this system. I do not want fragrance wearers to show up and pretend they gave two twits about me.  I have tried masks and invested in expensive hanging neck fans with no relief.  Don't even get me started on those mini dangling xmas trees for automobiles.      YYYYY                                                                                                                                                    Y((Yy

[tekmantwo]

39 minutes ago, kejedo said:

Sorry to have multiple postings. Please help by removing duplicates. pauline

I would leave them up, repetition for emphasis is a thing...

 

There are a couple of Sisters in my Congregation that have chem sensitivity issues, the Sister that has it the worst has only been able to eat 4 items for decades!...if she were to try an unknown dish, she could die, rather quickly.

 

She has only been able to come to meetings regularly lately because another Sister, that loved her fragrances,  has moved away.

 

We have had a number of local needs parts on perfumes and it has finally sunk in to us all that we need to be more considerate of our fellow Christians, and try not to kill them..

[SUNRAY]

1 hour ago, kejedo said:

Sorry to have multiple postings. Please help by removing duplicates. pauline

Pauline..you are very brave, and your research is great, and I am glad you posted it here. I will add that perfumes contain aldehyde, (so do cigarettes)..it causes a person to become addicted! Also, there are what is called "fixatives". That is why the chemicals stay in the carpet and chairs at the Hall. We have an excellent air system at our Hall and while at the meeting, since very few use any fragrance, we don't smell it. However, phlem starts choking me a bit, and I have to spray silver solution in my mouth to get rid of it. After we get home, we put our clothes in the dryer with heat until the fragrance goes away. It actually works! Sometimes I have to blow my hair with heat! My husband and I don't meet with groups, we witness with our pocket letters in the stores. Yes..it is an isolating illness..but if we die prematurly, we miss out on serving and walking with Jehovah! 😎

[Bek]

@EccentricM, thanks for the links. Yes, I have read that perfume was invented and used in Egypt and the Middle East in ancient times, but we are talking about the East Asians specifically. As I said earlier, Asians, and I mean the Arab, Iranians, Turks and so with the exception of the East Asians sweat just like the Europeans. 

 

For some reason in my previous post, one of the quotes got posted twice in a place where my third quote was supposed to be. Anyway, here it is just in case: 

 

Quote

East Asians who have nearly complete loss of typical body odor, when compared to people of African and European descent, have significantly less of the characteristic axillary odorants and variants in the ABCC11 gene, which is expressed and localized in apocrine sweat glands.^[31] Racial differences also exist in the cerumen glands, apocrine sweat glands which produce earwax.^[3] East Asians have predominantly dry earwax, as opposed to sticky; the gene encoding for this is strongly linked to reduced body odor, whereas those with wet, sticky earwax (Africans and Europeans) are prone to more body odor.^[32] Source

By the way, thanks for the baking soda idea. I should give it a try, and see how it goes.

[SUNRAY]

7 hours ago, Bek said:

thanks for the baking soda idea. I should give it a try, and see how it goes

This post may seem silly, but I hope helpful to anyone who may try using baking soda as a deoderant! If you google baking soda uses, one use may be to use for cleaning. It is a bit abraisive if not diluted, and if you apply a lot under your arm it can be irritating. This is why I want to share what I do. After bathing, I hold out my hand under a slow drip of the faucet and wet the inside of my fingers. Then I sprinkle a small amount of baking soda on those fingers and apply under my armpit. It feels dissolved, not gritty. Gritty is irritating. You may not think this small amount will do the trick, but it does. Also you can wipe under there later and reapply the same way inbetween bathing..hope this helps!😀

[dove]

Another idea to offset the grittiness of the baking soda is to mix 1 part soda with 6 parts cornstarch. Cornstarch is silky and non-abrasive and will absorb and trap moisture while the baking soda acts as an odor eliminator.

 

For those who have a corn sensitivity you can substitute arrowroot powder.

 

When I had shingles I used baking soda on the sores and was told by an herbalist to sub cornstarch for the soda. 

[Bek]

Looks like YouTube's owner, Google, has been watching my searches since yesterday.  I have had this video on zero waste home-made deodorant on my YouTube's recommendations list just now. It basically describes how to make your own deodorant at home. I find the recipe very interesting. So am posting it just in case: 

 

 

 

Below is the description of the video along with the recipe: 

 

Quote

In this video you will learn to make Zero Waste Deodorant using arrowroot powder, baking soda, coconut oil, shea butter, and essential oils which is a great alternative to deodorant from the store. It is organic, vegan, free of toxic chemicals, and package free.

 

BUT OHMAGOSH IF THIS DEODORANT DOES NOT WORK FOR YOU PUH-LEAZE DO NOT GIVE UP ON NATURAL DEODORANT! TRY AGAIN!

 

I can not emphasize this enough. There are so many toxins in conventional deodorant and, again, everyone’s body is different. So if this recipe does not work for you, try another recipe. Play with the amount of each ingredient, leave ingredients out, change the essential oil, and most importantly, give your body time to adjust.

 

I recommend testing each ingredient on your wrist to ensure there are no allergic reactions (for instance, some people do not react well to baking soda). If that is the case, leave it out. Also, if you shave your underarms, like with any deodorant, it is best to wait a few minutes before applying.

 

Check out all of the videos on my channel to find DIY recipes, Zero Waste tips, and sustainability tricks in order to live a waste-free or low-waste life.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Bek

[Bek]

It appears that those who are obsessed with daily showers and other items of excessive hygiene are victims of Satan's commercial system. That is the conclusion I have come to after reading the article below: 

How "Clean" Was Sold to America with Fake Science

 

https://gizmodo.com/how-clean-was-sold-to-america-1685320177

 

Just two generations ago many Westerners, especially the Americans, took a bath or a shower only once a week just like many other parts of the world.

[EccentricM]

50 minutes ago, Bek said:

It appears that those who are obsessed with daily showers and other items of excessive hygiene are victims of Satan's commercial system. That is the conclusion I have come to after reading the article below: 

How "Clean" Was Sold to America with Fake Science

 

https://gizmodo.com/how-clean-was-sold-to-america-1685320177

 

Just two generations ago many Westerners, especially the Americans, took a bath or a shower only once a week just like many other parts of the world.

 

From experience... a lot of people do smell if they don't wash daily. Whether that is do to with conditoning of how our bodies have adapted, I don't know. I do know not washing your hair every day with shampoo (or similar products) benefits it from the natural oils. I often wonder how Jehovah intended us to self regulate our hygiene when creating us as he never gave Adam soap and shampoo.

 

I know from experience scrubbing with a brush does the same job, and water alone can wash hair and leaves no trace of grease or smell IF regularly done. The modern soaps and so on are used more now because they are convenient and less time consuming. Since all soap does is make the dirt wash off the skin easier via stripping the skin of its first layer of natural oils, but other than that doesn't actually have any magical "cleaning abilities". In order to wash without soap to get the same effect you have to rub until you start getting dead skin shed.

 

So it's true we've been fed corporate lies that to be "clean" we have to use "their" products. But at the same time, without them today, people would not be able to do the things they have to do in the day due to the demands and time schedules of life, of which are now "normalised" due to the standard that the fast pace convenience products as well as stimulants like coffee and energy drinks have founded.

Edited October 12, 2019 by EccentricM

[EccentricM]

So, this means people have to "be at work for 7am and go home at 8pm" or sometimes earlier/later! Because such products have unnatrually enabled people to do so (at the cost of emotional wellbeing and health also) since they can get washed in a fast time, and can wake themselves up with alarms and stimulants, and keep taking stimulants until they go home as opposed to living by what our bodies are naturally telling us to do.

 

So reliance on corporate products has become an almost unavoidable vicious cycle. These products have contributed toward today's unnatural life style, and in order to keep up with such of which is now considered "standard", people have to take them. A clever scheme to be sure.

 

Diet is also a modern contributor as another example things are put in our food that should not be there. Modern products are made to fight the "symptoms" not the causes. Good example being toothpaste. Ancient Roman skeletons have been shown to have better teeth than modern people due to their healthier natural diets, yet they had no toothbrushes or products to put on their teeth like us. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11902097/Ancient-Romans-had-perfect-teeth-thanks-to-healthy-low-sugar-diet.html

Edited October 12, 2019 by EccentricM

[Ahuvah]

On 10/10/2019 at 1:25 AM, carlos said:

Nurzat, it's perfectly possible that East Asians are less prone to sweat. And I'm sure that their diet has a lot to do with that, as with all the other things you mention. But I have travelled in Korea and some people smelled good and many others stank of sweat.

 

My point is that everybody needs to wash themselves daily. And using some product to prevent bad smell helps too. The Slave has given that advice, and it was not for Westerners, it's for everybody worldwide. As in the publication I quoted, all Bethels around the world expect Bethelites to start the day with a shower. That applies to the Asian Bethels too.

 

Where I live, in summer it's absolutely necessary to have two or three showers a day, or even more if you do physical work. Otherwise you stink. I understand that in Iceland or in Kamchatka or in Antarctica the weather is different. But still,  you need to wash at least once a day.

This, I was about to type, I'm wondering too, if it has to do more with diet ... I was told once that horses (and other animals but we were talking about horses at that moment) can sense whether you are a meat eater or not via the hormones you emit via your skin. So maybe, our odour depends on our diet ... just like bad breath - our skin is an organ and is continually working to excrete toxins ... so if your diet is based on a lot of western style takeaways and other overly processed foods - then maybe our odour is particularly sour or offensive. 

 

My fav perfume is Opium ... it's subtle, but gives an asian flare to my overall scent. That being said, I do not wear any fragance to our kingdom hall or conventions because we too, have had an announcement not to ... so it's about putting your brothers and sisters over your own preferences - if that is the situation in your own congregation. 

[Tortuga]

2 hours ago, Bek said:

Just two generations ago many Westerners, especially the Americans, took a bath or a shower only once a week just like many other parts of the world.

Its interesting that our next MWM is about cleanliness, we will see how Jehovah feels.

[Ahuvah]

Baths were more likely to be once a week or less as it used to take a lot to heat up baths, and the whole family would use the same water.

Showers are a modern convenience that are more popular than baths now, but however we keep ourselves clean, as water is water and soap is soap whether it's via a shower, sponge bath or a tub.

 

In the resthome /hopsital I worked in, we showered our clients 2-3 times a week at most - other days they had sponge baths - but that was due to the time factor, we had 5 clients each to do in a matter of 2 1/2  hours - so we couldn't give them all showers in that time.  

 

So, clean is clean, no matter whether you shower once a week and wash the alternate days ... it all depends too on your lifestyle. And availability to water in many cases now. 

 

We have a tree (Cotton Poplar) that produces its own soap ... when the conditions are right - usually warm and wet it develops it's own lather that goes from its base right up to half way up the trunk - fascinating. 

[kejedo]

Despite my physically dangerous reactions to synthetics/ fragrances, body odors may smell unsavory, but don't threaten my health. Yup, even the gassy emissions. Don't love it, but never put me in the hospital. Y(mother of seven smart fellas) S

[Bek]

Experts from the Harvard and Columbia universities say that daily showering is not only unnecessary, but also bad for your health, as it washes away the natural oil and good bacteria on your skin. 

Daily showers aren't necessary, experts say

https://www.ajc.com/news/national/daily-showers-aren-necessary-experts-say/Wq0vp7bPfxw4bCcz9BuwrJ/

 

Showering daily — is it necessary?

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/showering-daily-is-it-necessary-2019062617193

[EccentricM]

@Bek are you trying to convince Westerners to smell? 😄

[minister159]

"Our body and clothing. Keeping ourselves clean needs to be part of our daily routine. For example, we bathe regularly, every day if possible. We wash our hands with soap and water, especially before cooking or eating and definitely after using the toilet or touching something dirty. Washing our hands seems like a simple thing, but it is necessary in order to stop bacteria and disease from spreading. It can even save lives. If we do not have a toilet or a sewage system, we can still find effective ways to dispose of waste. The ancient Israelites did not have a sewage system, so they buried their waste in the ground, far from people’s homes and water sources.—Deuteronomy 23:12, 13." ---  lvs ch. 8 par. 15

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by minister159

[Bek]

After some thought, I understand that those living in hot countries need daily showers, especially if they are doing some kind of physical work, for example, on a farm or at the gym. Today it is also trendy to go jogging and cycling every day, I would say that such people do need daily showers, may be even twice or three times a day. But if you live in a region with moderate or even cold climate, and hardly walk, because you get around by car, I don't think you need daily showers. I guess once or three times a week at the most is more than enough. 

 

I know that Bethelites have gyms and sports grounds where they play ball games. So it would be unthinkable not to have a shower after the gym or a game of football even in a cold climate region. 

 

So do we need daily showers? It depends...

[carlos]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:18 AM, Bek said:

So do we need daily showers? It depends...

Yes, I agree. It depends. The point is not having a shower every day but being clean. As Mandi explained, people who are on a hospital bed all day maybe don't need to have a bath so often since they don't do any exercise. But day still need to be washed daily.

 

I don't have a job with a lot of physical activity. But if I leave from home without washing myself, take the bus, do my job, take the bus back, go to the meeting, by the time I arrive at the hall I smell bad. Not terrible, but definitely don't smell clean.

 

The advice Jehovah's organization gives is to wash yourself every day. This is not a lie promoted by some company, it's what our publications say. As in the God's Love book I referenced before: "Keeping ourselves clean needs to be part of our daily routine. For example, we bathe regularly, every day if possible." That's not a book only for Westerners or for people from hot countries, that's an essential book every Christian has to study in depth before baptism or shortly afterwards. "If possible" implies that not everybody has access to a shower or a bathtub, but at least one should wash every day in order to be, feel and smell clean.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bek]

Br. Carlos, I am not against showering daily as such. If a person can do it, let him do it. I cannot do it, because, as you may know, I am almost always 24/7 in bed, and when I need to shower I drag myself out of bed and try to have one as much as my health permits. Sometimes I only manage to wash my hair, because when I am upright, breathing gets tough. So I go back to bed before I suffocate to get some rest. So it is a big struggle for me. 

 

Mind you, I used to have daily showers and even daily baths in the past when I was healthy. I remember I would fill a bath tub and sometimes soak for up to 2 hours every day.  

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Bek

[kejedo]

Looked up bathe on the internet. Synonym =wash. I am accustomed to that daily shower, but many are not. Scientists say overshowering is not a positive  habit: https://www.elitedaily.com/women/in-defense-of-not-showering/915527

 

[Bek]

30 minutes ago, kejedo said:

Looked up bathe on the internet. Synonym =wash. I am accustomed to that daily shower, but many are not. Scientists say overshowering is not a positive  habit: https://www.elitedaily.com/women/in-defense-of-not-showering/915527

 

Thanks, Sis Pauline! It seems common sense is prevailing in some scientific circles to undo the effects of propaganda by some greedy corporations and governments that are interested in driving consumption to boost economic growth. 

 

Quote

Believe it or not, you can get away with bathing only twice a week.

That is what the article you cited says, and science backs it up. 

 

I personally think that the info in our publications about the need to shower daily is only a recommendation. The Bible gives us only a general principle that we need to be clean. It would not be right to go beyond the scriptures and make a law of it by stipulating how many times we need to wash ourselves. Muslims usually do that kind of thing, and I find it very strange. They say that you need to perform ablutions five times a day before each prayer, and if you don't, then your prayer is not accepted and you are not a good Muslim.

 

Of course, if there is a need for a daily shower, we can wash only the "stinky parts" with water and possibly a bit of soap. 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Bek