Why do you use the expression: 'the friends'?

[Cushi]

14 hours ago, Thesauron said:

To me, a friend is closer than a brother, because ‘brother’ somehow implies a family tie that you didn’t chose. Your friends, though, are yours entirely by you choosing them.

Yeah that makes sense. I just don’t like saying “the friends.” Don’t like the way it sounds 🙃

[kejedo]

23 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

I’ve never really talked about it. But one sister told me the same. If we are supposed to die for one another we are more than friends. Also, she has traveled all around the world and she told me in one area (forgot where) that the brothers and sister get offended when they hear “the friends” and she was told not to say it. The brother told her that over there they have been through so much together and they are more than just “friends.”

How about "Friends with AMENities?"

 

[jwhess]

We can see cultural differences even language differences. 

 

But I note that when the FDS or GB say "imminent" or "last of the last days" everyone goes berserk and all over the world the "brothers" grab their go bags.

 

When these same anointed ones say "friends" we have non-North Americans wondering why they are weird.

 

We are so close to unity but still a little different....❤️

 

Focus on the faith.

[Thesauron]

Yeah that makes sense. I just don’t like saying “the friends.” Don’t like the way it sounds

We also say that Jehovah is not only our Father, but, more importantly, he is also our Friend. Like the song says: “Yes, Jehovah is my Father, My God and Friend”

 

[Shawnster]

14 hours ago, jwhess said:

But I note that when the FDS or GB say "imminent" or "last of the last days" everyone goes berserk and all over the world the "brothers" grab their go bags.

Is that because they panic more than the "sisters?"

[EccentricM]

3 hours ago, Thesauron said:

We also say that Jehovah is not only our Father, but, more importantly, he is also our Friend. Like the song says: “Yes, Jehovah is my Father, My God and Friend”

 

I don't think the original point has yet landed in this thread. I don't think anyone is objecting to calling brothers "friends", it's the phrase "the friends".

[Thesauron]

I don't think the original point has yet landed in this thread. I don't think anyone is objecting to calling brothers "friends", it's the phrase "the friends".

I know. That’s a linguistic technicality. If they are your friends, they are ‘the friends’. You could consider it short of “the friends of mine/ours”. Which is easier to say? The friends of mine in the congregation? Or, the friends in the congregation? Perhaps it all comes down to whether we really do consider them our friends...

They are our brothers and sisters, and, even more importantly, they are our friends. This is important since we have all left our friends in the world behind. They could now possibly be described as acquaintances.

[EccentricM]

3 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

That’s a linguistic technicality.

That's the crux, the way it's said isn't typical English grammar, so it's beyond a linguistic technicality, it's a unique phrase in US congregations, not used anywhere else in the world, either inside or outside the truth, which is why some people are so "Interested" in it.

 

I mean it doesn't bother me personally though, it's just another one of those "internal culture things".

Edited November 20, 2019 by EccentricM

[EccentricM]

Speaking of which, I have often wondered if we as JW's at least in certain lands could be almost considered an ethnic/cultural minority to a point. Since often people marry within their congregations, local areas and such within the truth, this family marries into that family, their kids with their kids and on it goes over time (my congregations in my local area specifically have many interconnected families with each other through marriage and children over the years). We have our own phrases, terminology, way of life, etc. You could say to a "degree", that spiritual Israel of which is the Christian congregation, was almost physical Israel, in terms of our internalised culture and family rearing in specific reigons. Languages have often evolved and changed through history all over the world even within small localities (creating accents, localised culture, etc), and in a similar way, we have this happen within the organisation to a small degree.

 

I would love to see both cultural and DNA research done on groups of JWs in certain areas (of those who have a long family history of being in the truth generationally) around the world to see these possible interconnections and developments.

Edited November 20, 2019 by EccentricM

[Thesauron]

That's the crux, the way it's said isn't typical English grammar, so it's beyond a linguistic technicality, it's a unique phrase in US congregations, not used anywhere else in the world, either inside or outside the truth, which is why some people are so "Interested" in it.
 
I mean it doesn't bother me personally though, it's just another one of those "internal culture things".

Not true. The expression is used here outside of the U.S., and in other places as well. In the local languages, of course.

[EccentricM]

3 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Not true. The expression is used here outside of the U.S., and in other places as well. In the local languages, of course.

Well that's interesting

[Tortuga]

47 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

I don't think the original point has yet landed in this thread. I don't think anyone is objecting to calling brothers "friends", it's the phrase "the friends".

The friends 

The International brotherhood 

The brothers and sisters

Our spiritual family

 

They are all different ways of referring to a group...

[jwhess]

Besides the the "structure", it is OK to use the definite article.  We could say, I really appreciate "the" brothers in the Arctic areas because...."  You are specifying them as a group.  If you say..."I really appreciate "brothers" in the Arctic area because...." it might seem you are showing joy in having mature males in the truth to assist in those remote places.  It might not come across as a general happiness in ANY faithful service done in harsh conditions.

 

Now you could have selected the phrase so it came out as..."I really appreciate "brothers and sisters" in the Arctic areas because..."  

 

If you would have said "the brothers and sisters", why would it seem incorrect to say "the friends" meaning the same group of people?  Having a definite article is not out of place in English.  If these brothers and sisters were "your" friends in the congregation and they are "my" friends in association at the the congregation, and they can be considered "our" friends together in common, then why not the grouping of your, mine and our friends be referred to as the group..."the" friends?

[nanceebgd46]

Just like every business, sports teams and many other enterprises.....we have our own 

internal vocabulary (a.k.a. jargon)...if you think about it, we in the Truth have our

own jargon...at least other people might think so.

 

1.Kingdom Hall

2. Memorial

3. Torture Stake

4. The Truth

5.  Disfellowshipped

6.  Ransom Sacrifice

7.  Et Cetera ***********(Etc. is an abbreviation for et cetera  and is 

                                            defined as meaning and so forth. An example 

                                             of the usage of etc. is in the sentence,  "Please

                                             purchase some fruit such as apples, oranges, etc.," 

  

Edited November 20, 2019 by nanceebgd46

[Sequoia]

This may have been mentioned, but I know that the expression the friends is used at least twice in the Christian scriptures at Third John verse 14;  "However, I am hoping to see you soon, and we will speak face-to-face. May you have peace. The friends send you their greetings. Give my greetings to the friends by name."

 

Perhaps this is why.  

[carlos]

On 11/11/2019 at 8:44 PM, RNGuzman said:

I've only heard the term "the friends" used here by the brothers and sisters in the English congregation.  I am in a Spanish congregation and the term "amigos" is not used that way.  It is always "brothers and sisters". 

A recent visit to the Spanish branch reminded me of this topic and comment.

 

As sister Rhonda explains, in Spanish it's not common at all to use the term "los amigos" (the friends) to refer collectively to brothers and sisters. In fact I have never heard that expression used in that sense. However, I found a letter in one of the Bethel exhibitions about the story of our work in Spain where that expression was used (and apparently understood). It's a letter from 1947 in which the headquarters at Brooklyn notified one elder from one of the few congregations existing at the time that the brothers Franz and Covington would visit Spain for two weeks. The expression "los amigos" is used several times in this letter. (Of course, the native language of the brother who composed it probably was English.)

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by carlos

[Qapla]

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

Interestingly, the latest Broadcast had a clip showing 3 mature Christians discussing how to care for their aging parent. I can tell these 'actors' were native speaking Australians.
In the discussion, the expression 'the friends' was used. This is not a 'natural' or common Australian expression in the brotherhood, so I assume the scripting came from HQ USA.
But the fact it was used was a clear indication of the correctness of its use, even if not common down here.
Just an observation. IMHO

Just Older

[1MKnight]

As an American, I use both "Brother and Sisters" and "friends."

 

It really just depends on how wordy or succinct I want to be. "Brothers and sisters" is 5 syllables, while "friends" is basically 1 syllable. 

 

And yes, I do in fact consciously use "friends" as a gender-neutral term. Rather than use "Brothers", which can mean three things (fleshly brother, The Brothers taking the lead, or all in the spiritual brotherhood), I can be more specific and say "friends" to indicate I'm not talking about "brothers taking the lead" or "blood brothers", but any of those in "the brotherhood." 

 

I really hate America's gender politics, but I must defend the pure utility of gender neutral terms in language. 

 

In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the authors would use specific words to indicate who they were talking about. In Koine Greek, "aner" means "man"/"husband" (ex: "Men! Galileans!"). "Anthropos" typically means "human being," or "person," or "mankind," a gender neutral term (ex: "Jesus judges the secret things of mankind").

 

The Greek term "adelphoi" ("ἀδελφοί")  means "brothers." While sometimes the context can show this is in reference to males (Matthew 12:46; 1 Corinthians 7:14), it is most often in reference to both males and females in the Christian Greek Scriptures. While the English NWT typically renders "brothers" and sometimes "brotherhood", the ASL NWT accurately says "brothers and sisters" to make it clear to the audience, who is being talked about.

 

Using "friends" in order to be succinct and specific in your speech is good in my view. 

[1MKnight]

On 11/20/2019 at 1:33 PM, nanceebgd46 said:

Just like every business, sports teams and many other enterprises.....we have our own 

internal vocabulary (a.k.a. jargon)...if you think about it, we in the Truth have our

own jargon...at least other people might think so.

 

1.Kingdom Hall

2. Memorial

3. Torture Stake

4. The Truth

5.  Disfellowshipped

6.  Ransom Sacrifice

7.  Et Cetera ***********(Etc. is an abbreviation for et cetera  and is 

                                            defined as meaning and so forth. An example 

                                             of the usage of etc. is in the sentence,  "Please

                                             purchase some fruit such as apples, oranges, etc.," 

  

I've learned that many in Christendom refer to their jargon as "Christianese." A lot of the terminology we use would fit into this category:

• Ransom
• Saved
• Born Again
• Fellowship
• Being/feeling Called to
• Spiritual
• Proverbs 31 woman
• The World
• Ministry
• "I can feel the spirit moving me"
• Blessed/Blessing
• Give it up to God
• God told me
• May the force be with you.

These are things that those in Christendom's denominations say. Some of them are terms we use as well, because their found in the Bible. However, they still would fall under the category of Christianese, jargon generally unused outside the context of the Bible and religion.

 

From Wikipedia:

The term "Christianese" is an informal and sometimes pejorative reference to the language of terms used in Christianity as contained and, in some cases, deliberately or effectively uncooperative with secular and foreign terms. . . Some Christian commentators hold that "Christianese" is incomprehensible or off-putting to outsiders, and suggest that it is possible to express all Christian truth in neutral language, with little or no use of religious words other than "God", "Jesus" and "Bible".

 

I'm inclined to agree that this jargon can be "incomprehensible or off-putting to outsiders." I gave a talk on the Trinity a while back and put extra effort into making sure that no "jargon" was used. I think it made the talk significantly better.