The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[tuntun]

11 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

I also work in healthcare. In a COVID unit some days and with COVID precautions all days. 
    In the US , if you are exposed . You ho home for two weeks. If you are symptomatic, you are tested and go home for two weeks. The US govt has authorized “ COVID pay” so as not to deplete sick leave for healthcare personnel. Is it the same in your country? 

The same thing happen here brother. We often follow the CDC or WHO guidelines. Your salary won't be cut if you are told to rest for at least 2 weeks. Since most people infected with covid have no symptoms, most are able to recover on their own with enough nutrition and rest. That's what i'm doing.

 

8 hours ago, EccentricM said:

@tuntun Sorry to hear that. I pray and hope you have get through and make an easy recovery.

 

Now that "is" stupid. Mask wearing at home will not prevent touching, cross contamination etc. You'd have to isolate everyone within a room each with all their essentials and no interaction if that tactic was ever going to make a difference within the home.

Thank brother. I hope you and your family will always be okay

 

Regarding the use of face masks. The main purpose is not to prevent transmission of infection.

No, because most nano-sized viruses would easily penetrate even surgical masks.

But masks can prevent people who have been infected with covid from spraying most of the droplets through their mouth and nose to all the surface/places that will be touched by others. That's why most covid infection are usually transmitted within the family. Because they often shared the same tools such as table, chair, cutlery, plate, door handles, etc.

Edited July 25, 2020 by tuntun

[BenJepthah]

15 minutes ago, tuntun said:

nes. Your salary won't be cut if you are told to rest for at least 2 weeks. Since most people infected with covid have no symptoms, most are able to recover on their own with enough nutrition and rest. That's what i'm doing.

Excellent!  That is what I was hoping for you.

[well]

@tuntun You are in our prayer... 

[hatcheckgirl]

I don't understand it..... just wear a mask.  It doesn't infringe on your rights as a woman..... "It is my right as a living woman to do whatever I like" 😲

 

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/bunnings-woman-films-her-own-meltdown-over-covid19-masks/video/b34623c14a0596bf10acf95f9d747458

[Guri]

37 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

I don't understand it..... just wear a mask.  It doesn't infringe on your rights as a woman..... "It is my right as a living woman to do whatever I like" 😲

 

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/bunnings-woman-films-her-own-meltdown-over-covid19-masks/video/b34623c14a0596bf10acf95f9d747458

If the law of the Australia allows her to choose whether to wear the face mask or not, then its her choice is't it? 

[Ludwika]

2 minutes ago, Guri said:

If the law of the Australia allows her to choose whether to wear the face mask or not, then its her choice is't it? 

Wouldn't it be nice if all took the attitude of Jehovah's people, life is sacred and love your neighbour. 

[Guri]

7 minutes ago, Ludwika said:

Wouldn't it be nice if all took the attitude of Jehovah's people, life is sacred and love your neighbour. 

Thats a different subject and yes would be nice but not everyone knows God or his requirements. As a citizen of Australia she pointed out on the law and I think the store staff should have right attitude to her choice. Don't you think so? 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Guri
spelling

[Ludwika]

3 minutes ago, Guri said:

Thats a different subject and yes would be nice but not everyone knows God or his requirements. As a citizen of Australia she pointed out on the law and I think the store staff should have right attitude to her choice. Don't you think so? 

You're right Guri, so many  people don't either know or think of these two principles. My point was simply that the world would be a safer place with this pandemic raging if they did. As to the attitude of the store staff, don't you think they have the right to try and protect themselves, regardless of what the government mandates? If I was working in retail right now, I'd want the management to put in place all they could to keep me safe. Especially where the rate of infection is rising just about out of control. But I don't want to argue the point, it's just how I feel. Others might see it differently. 

[pnutts]

If a store policy is to wear masks, it is private property and can have patrons wear one or leave. Here they can be charged with trespassing and some have, even though provincially and federally they are not mandatory just recommended. In Quebec it is the law and some cities like where I live made it law a few days ago.

[Guri]

4 minutes ago, pnutts said:

If a store policy is to wear masks, it is private property and can have patrons wear one or leave. Here they can be charged with trespassing and some have, even though provincially and federally they are not mandatory just recommended. In Quebec it is the law and some cities like where I live made it law a few days ago.

They could easily call police if someone has trespassed. Apparently the lady did not trespassed. Therefore the store staff had no right to demand from her to wear the mask. They could simply be nice and ask kindly and it would still be up to a lady whether she would desire to wear the face mask or not. There is a law in each country and people are required to uphold the law. Simple.  

Edited July 26, 2020 by Guri
spelling

[Guri]

48 minutes ago, Ludwika said:

You're right Guri, so many  people don't either know or think of these two principles. My point was simply that the world would be a safer place with this pandemic raging if they did. As to the attitude of the store staff, don't you think they have the right to try and protect themselves, regardless of what the government mandates? If I was working in retail right now, I'd want the management to put in place all they could to keep me safe. Especially where the rate of infection is rising just about out of control. But I don't want to argue the point, it's just how I feel. Others might see it differently. 

Dear Jennifer,

 

No, nor the store staff or anyone has right to do anything that breaches someone's right.  Our right ends where someone's right starts  

 

The store staff can only do whatever they want but only to the point where someone's right comes to a place. The store staff can't demand from others what the law allows others to do. That is whole point of the lady was saying in her video. 

[Ludwika]

4 minutes ago, Guri said:

They could easily call police if someone has trespassed. Apparently the lady did not trespassed. Therefore the store staff had no right to demand from her to wear the mask. They could simply be nice and ask kindly and it would still be up to a lady whether she would desire to wear the face mask or not. There is a law in each country and people are required to uphold the law. Simple.  

I worked in a large store some years ago, the company is completely within it's rights to require certain standards and compliance with those standards, quite irrespective of government laws. As has been pointed out, the store is private property. The management has every right to protect their staff. 

[Guri]

Just now, Ludwika said:

I worked in a large store some years ago, the company is completely within it's rights to require certain standards and compliance with those standards, quite irrespective of government laws. As has been pointed out, the store is private property. The management has every right to protect their staff. 

Dear Jennifer, 

 

If the shop had right to stop the lady entering in their private property, they could call police. In fact the lady explained to the staff members they they had NO right to even question her about the face mask. There is a law and everyone is expected to uphold the law, no matter they have a private shop or not. Law is law and rules are rules for everyone.  

[Ludwika]

1 minute ago, Guri said:

Dear Jennifer, 

 

If the shop had right to stop the lady entering in their private property, they could call police. In fact the lady explained to the staff members they they had NO right to even question her about the face mask. There is a law and everyone is expected to uphold the law, no matter they have a private shop or not. Law is law and rules are rules for everyone.  

Some places have signs "no work boots", or require a certain standard of dress. Anyone not complying can be refused entry. Why would this be any different? Other than not taking off your work boots isn't going to risk the life of the unfortunate staff members. However, I don't wish to argue. 

[Guri]

1 minute ago, Ludwika said:

Some places have signs "no work boots", or require a certain standard of dress. Anyone not complying can be refused entry. Why would this be any different? Other than not taking off your work boots isn't going to risk the life of the unfortunate staff members. However, I don't wish to argue. 

Dear Jennifer, 

 

I do not argue and I do not invite you for argue.  You have expressed your thoughts, I did the same. 

 

As I pointed out, IF the shop is private and someone did something unlawful, there is a police and they could call for help. In fact, they could not do anything because the lady was within her rights as she explained.

 

P.S.

Love the video.  

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Guri said:

As I pointed out, IF the shop is private and someone did something unlawful, there is a police and they could call for help. In fact, they could not do anything because the lady was within her rights as she explained.

Typically though, it's the level of unlawfulness that dictates when the police are called.  If I trespass on your property, Guri, and you want me to leave, your first action most likely will be to tell me to leave.  Most likely you would not call the police unless there were extenuating circumstances. 

 

Same holds for a mask.  Not wearing a mask is a much less offense than, say, pointing a gun.  The appropriate first response to someone not wearing a mask is to remind them of the policy.  If the person resists or argues or escalates, then management should get involved.  Only when the mask wearer continues to resist management and is creating a disturbance would police be called. 

 

And, honestly, calling the police on someone not wearing a mask? Seriously? By the time the police arrive the person not wearing the mask willy have left.  I'm not seeing where police will have opportunity to be effective. Maybe in the rare instances but not as a practice.  

 

The only way police would be truly effective is if they were patrolling and started writing tickets to offenders on the spot similar to a traffic violation.  Police would need to be stationed at every store for them to enforce mask ordinances. 

 

The only truly effective way to enforce mask policy is to not service people who do not comply with the policy.  No shirt? No shoes? No mask? No service!  If the customer is well within their rights to not wear a mask then the business is well within its rights to refuse service. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Shawnster

[Paradise-Lover]

2 hours ago, Guri said:

Thats a different subject and yes would be nice but not everyone knows God or his requirements. As a citizen of Australia she pointed out on the law and I think the store staff should have right attitude to her choice. Don't you think so? 

But it's not right for anybody to insist on his/her "right" not to wear a mask in public during this pandemic period. Wouldn't that amount to "a casual attitude"?

Again, "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." 🤔

Edited July 26, 2020 by Paradise-Lover

[AH173]

9 minutes ago, Paradise-Lover said:

But it's not right for anybody to insist on his/her "right" not to wear a mask in public during this pandemic period. Wouldn't that amount to "a casual attitude"?

Brother Chuks, it seems that there is a fine point being discussed. 

1) We all agree that if fellow witnesses we would be humble and follow clear guidelines that promote health and safety of our neighbors.

2) There is the other point being made on what those would do as non-witnesses. That they have their "rights" that they insist on whether one must wear a mask or not.

3) Also the point is being discussed on the place of business having the right to have all shoppers or entrants into the establishment must be required to have a mask on.

 

I would hope that all witnesses would follow the nice points even mentioned in today's daily text.

Quote

Sunday, July 26

Are you the King of the Jews?—John 18:33.

Perhaps the governor feared that Jesus could cause political unrest, a principal concern throughout Pilate’s rule. Jesus answered: “My Kingdom is no part of this world.” (John 18:36) He would not get involved in politics, for his Kingdom was to be a heavenly one. He told Pilate that his work on earth was to “bear witness to the truth.” (John 18:37) When we understand our assignment as clearly as Jesus understood his, we will avoid even lending tacit, or unspoken, support for political independence movements. This may not be easy. “People in our area are becoming more and more radical,” notes one traveling overseer. “A nationalistic spirit has taken over, and many take for granted that political independence will improve their lives. Thankfully, the brothers have safeguarded their Christian unity by concentrating on preaching the good news of the Kingdom. They look to God to solve injustice and the other problems we face.” w18.06 4-5 ¶6-7

I would sure hope no witness would engage in a "radical, nationalistic and independent spirit" even during a global pandemic.

 

For an additional thought: Under category of rights in the Watchtower Library

Quote

Christian attitude toward: it-1 1160; w92 9/1 21-22
“bear the weaknesses of those not strong” (Ro 15:1): it-2 780; lvs 22; lv 20; w04 9/1 11-13
not insisting on personal: w09 2/15 19-21; g05 10/8 27; w04 9/1 11-13; w00 8/15 24-25; w88 8/15 19

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by AH173
additional thought

[Guri]

18 minutes ago, Paradise-Lover said:

But it's not right for anybody to insist on his/her "right" not to wear a mask in public during this pandemic period. Wouldn't that amount to "a casual attitude"?

Br. Chuks, 

 

Every country has different laws and different pandemic situation. Apparently, in Australia law does not require of everyone to wear the face masks. Therefore one may feel he is forced when someone demands for mask. Of course we (I mean Witnesses) do use common sense and display wise attitude when we wear the mask but if someone chooses not to, then we [ or a shop owner] can not demand or "force" them to do what we think or believe is right in regards of wearing a mask. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Guri
clarification

[Guri]

35 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

By the time the police arrive the person not wearing the mask willy have left.  I'm not seeing where police will have opportunity to be effective. Maybe in the rare instances but not as a practice. 

Br. Shawn, 

 

Thanks for your comment. 

 

I think most of the women like spending some time in shopping, so if the police takes longer than 5 min to arrive at the location than police is too slow  

 

For instance, in the UK police can get to location in 5 min max, even when the issue is within the shopping centres.   

Edited July 26, 2020 by Guri
clarification

[Shawnster]

13 minutes ago, Paradise-Lover said:

But it's not right for anybody to insist on his/her "right" not to wear a mask in public during this pandemic period. Wouldn't that amount to "a casual attitude"?

Again, "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." 🤔

You are absolutely correct in that a Christian does not insist upon their rights.  We yield our rights in behalf of the other person.

 

But we are talking about worldly people and worldly laws.  If a government has said masks are optional, then they are optional.  If masks are mandated, then they are mandated. 

 

However, a business does have the right to institute a mask policy even in lands where masks are optional. That is the very nature of private businesses.  They have the right to enforce policy in their store. 

3 minutes ago, Guri said:

Br. Shawn, 

 

Thanks for your comment. 

 

I think most of the women like spending some time in shopping, so if the police takes longer than 5 min to arrive at the location than police is too slow  

 

For instance, in the UK police can get to location in 5 min max, even when the issue is within the shopping centres.   

If the police are responding to every mask violation, I guarantee their response time will drop.  

[Guri]

11 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

You are absolutely correct in that a Christian does not insist upon their rights.  We yield our rights in behalf of the other person.

 

But we are talking about worldly people and worldly laws.  If a government has said masks are optional, then they are optional.  If masks are mandated, then they are mandated. 

 

However, a business does have the right to institute a mask policy even in lands where masks are optional. That is the very nature of private businesses.  They have the right to enforce policy in their store. 

If the police are responding to every mask violation, I guarantee their response time will drop.  

You are right.  There is another side as well though, it sets the precedent for the people. Once  police arrests one shopper, there will be less mask wearing refusal crimes  

Edited July 26, 2020 by Guri
spelling

[Guri]

4 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

However, a business does have the right to institute a mask policy even in lands where masks are optional. That is the very nature of private businesses.  They have the right to enforce policy in their store. 

Br. Shawn,

 

Is this the case in Australia as well? Maybe in Australia is different law, I don't know. 

 

 Hypothetically speaking, I wonder how would she reply to the staff if the staff members or the shop manager have explained to her what you just said here?  Would she leave the shop? 

[Shawnster]

32 minutes ago, Guri said:

 

Is this the case in Australia as well? Maybe in Australia is different law, I don't know

This is the very basis of any democratic society that honors private property.  The very definition of private property is you make the rules. 

 

Just like you  Guri.  You are the head of your home. You make the rules for your home. If I come over and do not follow the rules of your home, you have the right to make me leave. 

 

 

[CHecker]

11 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

This is the very basis of any democratic society that honors private property.  The very definition of private property is you make the rules. 

 

Just like you  Guri.  You are the head of your home. You make the rules for your home. If I come over and do not follow the rules of your home, you have the right to make me leave. 

 

 

Concise and true. We have many places here, most stores, that have mask required. You will be escorted out if you dont comply. I saw the woman in the video as being self centered, demanding her "rights". She has the right to do as she wishes in private but in public, with the current circumstances, she needs to obey the requirements of any public space.