Seek the Advantage of Others

[Friends just call me Ross]

(Note: Some words to these snippets of Watchtower articles have been replaced to reflect how the principles can also apply to our Christian conduct in cyberspace.  The replaced wording is in bold, italics and underlined.) 

 

(1 Corinthians 10:23, 24) All things are lawful, but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful, but not all things build up. 24 Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person.

 

*** lv chap. 6 pp. 72-73 How to Choose Wholesome Topics to Comment On and Post Upbuilding Comments ***

 

SEEK THE ADVANTAGE OF OTHERS

 

20 Paul mentioned a key Bible principle that needs to be taken into account when making decisions on what, and how, to post on a discussion forum in cyberspace. He stated: “All things are lawful, but not all things build up. Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person.” (1 Corinthians 10:23, 24) How does that principle relate to choosing wholesome topics and comments? You need to ask yourself, ‘How will the topic or comment that I choose to share effect others?’

 

21 Your conscience may allow you to post a certain topic or comment that you view as “lawful,” or acceptable. However, if you notice that other believers with a more restrictive conscience find it objectionable, you may decide not to post it. Why? Because you do not want to “sin against your brothers”—or even be “sinning against Christ,” as Paul stated—by making it more difficult for your fellow believers to maintain faithfulness to God. You take to heart the admonition: “Keep from becoming causes for stumbling.” (1 Corinthians 8:12; 10:32) True Christians today heed Paul’s considerate and perceptive counsel by avoiding posting a topic or a comment that may be “lawful” but does not “build up.”—Romans 14:1; 15:1.

 

22 There is, though, another side to the matter of seeking the advantage of others. A Christian with a more restrictive conscience should not insist that all members of the discussion forum  conform to his narrower view on what proper topics or comments are. If he were to do so, he would be like a driver on a highway who insists that all other drivers using the same road hold to the same speed that he prefers. Such a demand would not be reasonable. Out of Christian love, someone with a more confining conscience needs to respect fellow believers whose view  of proper topics and comments differ somewhat from his own but are still within the bounds of Christian principles. That way, he lets his “reasonableness become known to all men.”—Philippians 4:5; Ecclesiastes 7:16.

_____________________________________________________

 

*** w75 5/1 p. 268 How Do You Accept Message Board Moderation? ***

 

It may be that your topic or comment is not wrong in itself. But are you unconcerned as to what effect it may have on others? The apostle reminds us: “We . . . who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those not strong, and not to be pleasing ourselves. Let each of us please his neighbor in what is good for his upbuilding.”—Rom. 15:1, 2.

 

To guide our choice of topics to post and comments to share, Paul also said: “All things are lawful; but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful; but not all things build up.” (1 Cor. 10:23) Within the framework of Christian law there is a wide latitude of topic selection and commenting and the Christian has to decide many matters according to his Christian conscience. But he must consider also the consciences of others. Not all things build up either himself or others. Such things can well be sacrificed, or hidden, especially where love and peace are at stake.

______________________________________________________

Every member of JWTalk can act as their own Moderator by applying the Christian principle of seeking the advantage of others, and not their own advantage --"especially where love and peace are at stake." ❤️

 

 

[carlos]

Thanks, Ross. Good reminders!

[Qapla]

Thanks for the topic of this thread.

 

Colossians 4:6 tells us, ". . .Let your words always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should answer each person. . ."

 

Have you ever had some food that "needed" salt? 😩 Ever been on a salt-free diet?😖  Food does not taste the same without salt. Salt, along with black pepper, is considered to be a universal seasoning. Salt is not part of any particular cuisine or  style of cooking like many spices and ingredients are. It is used in sweet and savory dishes from all cultures of the world.

 

With that in mind, just what does it mean to "season with salt"? While most foods benefit from using salt to enhance their flavor, there are differences. At times salt takes a "front seat" - like  🍟 ... they are supposed to taste salty. On the other hand, while some sweets benefit from a salty taste, like salted caramel, most do not ... the salt needs to take a backseat to the other flavors.

 

When cooking, what happens if we grab the salt and let fall into the food however much happens to fall out of the salt container        sometimes the food will be so salty we can't eat it while other times we will still need to add salt when we eat the food   

 

The same can be said of our topics, posts and comments on the forum. Are we using salt at all?    Are we just dumping in however much comes out?   I recently heard someone express the thought, "do we respond or do we react"?  🤔🤔🤔🤔   If we respond it is much like following the recipe with cooking - where we use the measured amount of salt that makes the food, or in the forum, our comments, palatable.     If we react, it is like like dumping the salt in with no regard to how much we use - if we use to much or none at all the result is the same - the food, or in the forum, our comments, are not palatable.   

 

When adding salt to our topics, posts and comments lets make sure we "season with salt" - let's not just toss in however much salt happens to fall out of the container     let's "season" with our salt   

[Pjdriver]

On 10/13/2020 at 10:31 PM, Friends just call me Ross said:

(Note: Some words to these snippets of Watchtower articles have been replaced to reflect how the principles can also apply to our Christian conduct in cyberspace.  The replaced wording is in bold, italics and underlined.) 

 

(1 Corinthians 10:23, 24) All things are lawful, but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful, but not all things build up. 24 Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person.

 

*** lv chap. 6 pp. 72-73 How to Choose Wholesome Topics to Comment On and Post Upbuilding Comments ***

 

SEEK THE ADVANTAGE OF OTHERS

 

20 Paul mentioned a key Bible principle that needs to be taken into account when making decisions on what, and how, to post on a discussion forum in cyberspace. He stated: “All things are lawful, but not all things build up. Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person.” (1 Corinthians 10:23, 24) How does that principle relate to choosing wholesome topics and comments? You need to ask yourself, ‘How will the topic or comment that I choose to share effect others?’

 

21 Your conscience may allow you to post a certain topic or comment that you view as “lawful,” or acceptable. However, if you notice that other believers with a more restrictive conscience find it objectionable, you may decide not to post it. Why? Because you do not want to “sin against your brothers”—or even be “sinning against Christ,” as Paul stated—by making it more difficult for your fellow believers to maintain faithfulness to God. You take to heart the admonition: “Keep from becoming causes for stumbling.” (1 Corinthians 8:12; 10:32) True Christians today heed Paul’s considerate and perceptive counsel by avoiding posting a topic or a comment that may be “lawful” but does not “build up.”—Romans 14:1; 15:1.

 

22 There is, though, another side to the matter of seeking the advantage of others. A Christian with a more restrictive conscience should not insist that all members of the discussion forum  conform to his narrower view on what proper topics or comments are. If he were to do so, he would be like a driver on a highway who insists that all other drivers using the same road hold to the same speed that he prefers. Such a demand would not be reasonable. Out of Christian love, someone with a more confining conscience needs to respect fellow believers whose view  of proper topics and comments differ somewhat from his own but are still within the bounds of Christian principles. That way, he lets his “reasonableness become known to all men.”—Philippians 4:5; Ecclesiastes 7:16.

_____________________________________________________

 

*** w75 5/1 p. 268 How Do You Accept Message Board Moderation? ***

 

It may be that your topic or comment is not wrong in itself. But are you unconcerned as to what effect it may have on others? The apostle reminds us: “We . . . who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those not strong, and not to be pleasing ourselves. Let each of us please his neighbor in what is good for his upbuilding.”—Rom. 15:1, 2.

 

To guide our choice of topics to post and comments to share, Paul also said: “All things are lawful; but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful; but not all things build up.” (1 Cor. 10:23) Within the framework of Christian law there is a wide latitude of topic selection and commenting and the Christian has to decide many matters according to his Christian conscience. But he must consider also the consciences of others. Not all things build up either himself or others. Such things can well be sacrificed, or hidden, especially where love and peace are at stake.

______________________________________________________

Every member of JWTalk can act as their own Moderator by applying the Christian principle of seeking the advantage of others, and not their own advantage --"especially where love and peace are at stake." ❤️

 

 

Ross, can you provide several specific examples to clarify?

Edited October 17, 2020 by Pjdriver

[Qapla]

Perhaps ... just perhaps, pointing out examples of what may seem like a comment/post/thread that needs self-moderation would not fit the spirit of "seeking the advantage of others" that this thread is all about    

[Pjdriver]

6 hours ago, Qapla said:

Perhaps ... just perhaps, pointing out examples of what may seem like a comment/post/thread that needs self-moderation would not fit the spirit of "seeking the advantage of others" that this thread is all about    

Seem like simple question. Are you running for president? 
I guess this topic was not meant to be a discussion, just a statement?

ok....

Edited October 17, 2020 by Pjdriver

[Qapla]

OK - Let's see if I can give some illustrations/examples:

 

Bad topics/comments/posts

• Topic: What do you do "behind closed doors" that others may find offensive
• Comment: THAT Movie is NOT something that ANY "real" Christian would even think about watching
• Post: You are being mean - why are you picking on me? Especially since I am right and you are wrong!!!

 

Does this help?

[bigvince]

In line with 1 Corinthians 8:13, we should not say, post, or otherwise do things that would offend the conscience of others. At the same time, balance is required, notice Romans 14:13-14, we can not judge others whose conscience are offended by what we might say or do. Each person has their own conscience and is accountable to Jehovah. As for examples, no one could make an exhaustive list. I may be offended if a brother wears a hat into the kingdom hall, but if he does, does that make my view right or change how spiritual a person he is?

 

Let's keep it simple, we can't say that if something "could" offend others, don't post it because there's no telling what might offend someone else, we would have an empty forum. We need balance. If we know that something we want to post a topic or comment  is something that is more likely to be offensive, whether in content or in the tone or view it presents, we would use discernment and a bible trained conscience and not post it. Or find a way to present it in a balanced view where it might be less likely to offend others.

[bigvince]

Meant to include this in my comment. Sorry.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtMorningWorship/pub-jwbmw_201610_1_VIDEO

[Pjdriver]

15 hours ago, Qapla said:

OK - Let's see if I can give some illustrations/examples:

 

Bad topics/comments/posts

• Topic: What do you do "behind closed doors" that others may find offensive
• Comment: THAT Movie is NOT something that ANY "real" Christian would even think about watching
• Post: You are being mean - why are you picking on me? Especially since I am right and you are wrong!!!

 

Does this help?

 That wasn't so bad was it?  I agree, I’ve pointed out things like this several times. When something is a personal decision, and someone tries to tell you what you should be thinking and doing ....I have a problem with that. I know you do too.
Or when someone that has no interest in a topic....but they feel the need to post anyway...just to tell everyone they don’t like the topic. I have to ask myself. Why?

 

However, if we’re talking about matters that are not personal but just  a matter of viewpoint and understanding of a scripture,  that is another matter. But I agree it should not get personal....or impute bad motives to others. If we find ourselves doing that, we should apologize and stop it.
 

I will say this....the problem we have with forum discussions is that there will always be someone who feels offended over a topic. If we view this as stumbling others and we feel we need to avoid stumbling anyone, I think we would have to shut down the whole forum or not allow anyone to choose topics but only have topics carefully selected by the moderators. Because we don’t want “anyone” to be stumbled. Does that seem reasonable?  If we don't want “anyone” to stumble that may be the only way to avoid it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Pjdriver

[Pjdriver]

On 10/13/2020 at 10:31 PM, Friends just call me Ross said:

Your conscience may allow you to post a certain topic or comment that you view as “lawful,” or acceptable. However, if you notice that other believers with a more restrictive conscience find it objectionable, you may decide not to post it. Why? Because you do not want to “sin against your brothers”—or even be “sinning against Christ,”

Ross, I can’t deny, this is good counsel. It’s the ideal way of doing things. Please don’t misinterpret this as minimizing your thoughts....you are spot on in what you’ve posted.

Here’s the difficulty. This is not a local congregation where most of the friends know each other well,.....Usually  much better than we know each other on the forum. The forum is like a congregation the size of a small regional convention. You have no idea who is reading your post. When we have conversations at our local KH, we usually know who we’re talking to, and who’s listening.

We usually have learned who in the congregation to be careful around.

If you’re chatting with a friend about Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs and you see sister “sensitive” approaching, and is bothered by the witch,.....you might avoid talking about it in front of her. Here, we can’t see or know all the sensitive ones. 
Too many people with different personalities, cultures, backgrounds, that we are not so familiar with.

So, what to do? 

  Ways to solve the problem

1. closed the forum down so no one can stumble...but then that might stumble someone. 

2. only allow topics that everyone agrees on everything....... 

3. Have moderators screen all comments before they are posted. 
4. Everyone JUST behave perfectly!  

5. ?

Any of those sound appealing? I’m just trying to be realistic. 
Maybe I’ve missed something. 

 

The FS doesn’t “tell us” we can’t have forums, but they certainly don’t encourage it..........

Maybe this is why. 

[Qapla]

Not a "solution" but an "option" that is available 

 

 

 

This way, you CAN see others reactions and hear the inflections

[Pjdriver]

20 minutes ago, Qapla said:

Not a "solution" but an "option" that is available 

So, after all....we agree, there is no good realistic “solution”. 

 

In spite of the problems, I enjoy the forum “option”, because I can pop in and out on my own time.
Besides..........I’m Very shy. 
My wife is not a forum person.....she told me I should be associating more with my local brothers. She probably has a point,  but.........
 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Pjdriver

[BLEmom]

I agree that on the forum it seems someone always gets upset. However, frankly, I’ve been seeing that in real life too. Everyone is getting more hypersensitive due to stress and the worlds social issues. I went with some sisters to see the newest version of Little Women. I sat there and marveled at the way each was allowed to be who they were. Their personalities were accepted and the others, for the most part, just took it in stride. 
I don’t find that happens in real life.  Sadly. 

[bigvince]

@BLEmom movies rarely imitate or depict reality. Satan’s thinking is everywhere.

[bagwell1987]

13 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

I agree that on the forum it seems someone always gets upset. However, frankly, I’ve been seeing that in real life too. Everyone is getting more hypersensitive due to stress and the worlds social issues. I went with some sisters to see the newest version of Little Women. I sat there and marveled at the way each was allowed to be who they were. Their personalities were accepted and the others, for the most part, just took it in stride. 
I don’t find that happens in real life.  Sadly. 

I posted a link to a NY Times article on the Covid thread, it agrees with what you just said. Have you read it? Amazing read.

[carlos]

2 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

Ways to solve the problem

You all have mentioned valid points. On the one hand we need to be careful not to offend others unnecessarily. On the other hand we need to use some flexibility and not be offended so quickly. No matter what we do, there will always be someone who is offended, but one thing is to be offended by the contents of a post or a discussion ("I don't like this subject") and a different thing is to be offended because some friends are rude, inconsiderate or insulting. In the first situation there is not much we can do, but the second one can be easily avoided if we all behave politely.

 

I agree none of the options Burt lists is very appealing. We think the best approach is to let members work out their differences applying Christian principles, and if some member is not behaving, the mods are there to give them a tap on the shoulder.

 

[BLEmom]

1 hour ago, bigvince said:

@BLEmom movies rarely imitate or depict reality. Satan’s thinking is everywhere.

The movie is depicting a different time period. Were there problems back then? Yes. But generally I do think past time periods allowed for greater acceptance of a persons personality. 

[careful]

i like this forum so i can see what other people think about things currently being experienced by other witnesses.  Sometimes, however, i am surprised by the rudeness of comments and my opinion about this is partly that when we think we have annonymity,(hope i spelled that correctly), we may feel free to really express ourselves freely since no one knows who we are.  but, would we really say that comment to someone if they were standing right in front of us and especially if others were also there to see us say it????  After all,  it is possible that others here on this forum do know who we are and of course jehovah knows who we are....so......maybe act like you are really facing your brother or sister.

[Jothob]

1 hour ago, careful said:

i like this forum so i can see what other people think about things currently being experienced by other witnesses.  Sometimes, however, i am surprised by the rudeness of comments and my opinion about this is partly that when we think we have annonymity,(hope i spelled that correctly), we may feel free to really express ourselves freely since no one knows who we are.  but, would we really say that comment to someone if they were standing right in front of us and especially if others were also there to see us say it????  After all,  it is possible that others here on this forum do know who we are and of course jehovah knows who we are....so......maybe act like you are really facing your brother or sister.

I’m sorry you’ve had this experience 😔

All I can say is that the moderators in this forum are very quick in correcting anyone that is being rude by their comments to others, so hopefully this will be nipped in the bud before a full scale argument erupts. 
I’m with you on this point, I think we shouldn’t say something to someone in written form if we wouldn't say it face to face.....

Edited October 19, 2020 by Jothob

[Amygdala]

On 10/19/2020 at 2:42 PM, careful said:

we may feel free to really express ourselves freely since no one knows who we are.  but, would we really say that comment to someone if they were standing right in front of us and especially if others were also there to see us say it????

Having lived in 2 countries, attending and belonging to several congregations and foreign language groups both large and small, and visiting many countries and congregations including going in the ministry with local brothers or visiting, I can truly say it depends on culture and upbringing. The majority of the friends are warm and loving, but I have noticed some cultures it's common and expected to be direct to your face, even at the cost of sounding unfriendly. Otherwise it's considered being fake or superficial. Good thing is were always being refined in the congregation.