Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[zoebarry]

40 minutes ago, sunshine said:

 

 

 

Canada reaches deal with Pfizer for vaccines in future years

 

 

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canada has reached an agreement with Pfizer for 35 million COVID-19 booster doses for next year, and 30 million in 2023 with options for tens of millions more in future years

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/canada-reaches-deal-pfizer-vaccines-future-years-77272115

 

 

Huh......

 

So an agreement has been made for Pfizer to sell booster shots to Canada that have not even been manufactured yet, and those booster shots haven’t even been confirmed as necessary yet?

 

Huh.....🤔

 

(scratching my head)

 

[Shawnster]

That's how business works.  This isn't a sign of conspiracy or clandestine dealings. 

 

Commodities are exchanged on the futures market on a daily basis. 

 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/futures.asp

 

What Are Futures?

Futures are derivative financial contracts that obligate the parties to transact an asset at a predetermined future date and price. The buyer must purchase or the seller must sell the underlying asset at the set price, regardless of the current market price at the expiration date.

[Witness1970]

Update #6 was very encouraging.  It is good that OVER 98% of the ones at Bethel in the US have been vaccinated.  As vaccines become available in other areas, I am sure that those Bethels will follow suit.

 

I am well aware that some cannot take the vaccine due to health reasons, but it is unfortunate that some resist taking the vaccine due to what they are told by some news anchor.  It's sad that a news anchor who refuses to say if he has had the vaccine will tell others that they should not be vaccinated just to improve the ratings on his program.

[vern]

Are you going to betray your brothers that are unvaccinated?

 

[Fallbrookian]

40 minutes ago, Witness1970 said:

Update #6 was very encouraging.  It is good that OVER 98% of the ones at Bethel in the US have been vaccinated.  As vaccines become available in other areas, I am sure that those Bethels will follow suit.

 

I am well aware that some cannot take the vaccine due to health reasons, but it is unfortunate that some resist taking the vaccine due to what they are told by some news anchor.  It's sad that a news anchor who refuses to say if he has had the vaccine will tell others that they should not be vaccinated just to improve the ratings on his program.

Typically those who refuse the vaccine is because they have done research and listen to doctors ( on both sides). I personally don’t know anyone on either side of the fence that goes by what a news anchor would say about health advice. 

[pnutts]

45 minutes ago, Nancy M said:

Typically those who refuse the vaccine is because they have done research and listen to doctors ( on both sides)

Large part is due to personalities, some refuse all vaccines, some accept all vaccines. Doctors sometimes get paid or influence by others ( other countries, competition, political stripe, etc. )

Due to having ME/CFS progressed to heart disease with diabetes, I normally do not take most vaccines,

However for covid, I am fully vaccinated.

Side effects, some, mainly sore arm for 3 weeks ( esp 1st week ) both times.

Arthritis - noticed uptick in joint pain in new spots, however my allergies have been worse this year before the shots, and mold forming faster in the bathroom and on bread, etc.

 

[lovjahupepl]

Interesting: mixing vaccines is not considered fully vaccinated in some places to cruise.   Wonder if this will spill over into other forms of travel, etc.

 

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/07/16/some-cruise-lines-will-not-allow-passengers-mixed-vaccines-sail

 

A few cruise lines have announced new policies regarding which Covid-19 vaccines are acceptable, as well as prohibiting mixed vaccine regiments.

 

At least three cruise lines have announced new policies this week.

Norwegian Cruise Line has updated its policy to say their U.S. based vessels will not accept mixed vaccinations, such as Pfizer + Moderna or AstraZeneca + Pfizer, etc.

[Witness1970]

4 hours ago, Nancy M said:

Typically those who refuse the vaccine is because they have done research and listen to doctors ( on both sides). I personally don’t know anyone on either side of the fence that goes by what a news anchor would say about health advice. 

I know several who listen to a news anchor to make such decisions.

 

Edit:  The ones that I know who make their decisions based on the news anchor in question are not Witnesses but are outside of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Witness1970

[New World Explorer]

2 minutes ago, Witness1970 said:

I know several who listen to a news anchor to make such decisions.

This was a good magazine. 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201312/can-you-trust-news-media/

[lovjahupepl]

 

8 fully vaccinated healthcare workers who went to a Vegas pool party got COVID-19 with mild symptoms - and at least 7 caught the Delta variant, a report said

This is not about vaccinated catching covid.  We all know by now that even the vaccinated can get covid and have mild symptoms.  This article even says so.  I understand the workers got upon finding out took precautions, self isolated, etc.  Also that is "rare" that a vaccinated person can get covid, we keep hearing it over an over gain so no need to focus on that. 

My concern is the fact that it says the following;

 

https://news.yahoo.com/8-fully-vaccinated-healthcare-workers-120920915.html

 

It's hard to tell how many vaccinated Americans are getting infected with Delta because on May 1 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stopped monitoring most reported cases among vaccinated people, focusing on cases resulting in hospitalization or death. The CDC's data wouldn't have picked up the cases among the Las Vegas health workers.

 

Why would the decision not to keep count of "vaccinated people" that contract covid after they get the shots make sense?  It seems to me this data would be very important to know the effectiveness of the shots so that things could be tweaked, etc.  However, it is tracked aggressively how many unvaccinated people get covid (whether in the hospital or not).  We are hearing it often recently.  Not trying to cause a debate I just find this part of the article interesting.  If data is going to be kept it should be done equally on both sides to get accurate effectiveness of the shot, infections, etc.  It's easy to find data on the unvaccinated but nothing gathered on vaccinated seems a bit one sided.  Also since they keep saying all the time when someone vaccinated get covid that  "breakthrough cases are "RARE". 
 

https://www.vox.com/22575227/covid-19-post-vaccine-breakthrough-infection-cases

What should we be doing about Covid-19 breakthrough infections?

It’s hard to come up with a strategy to deal with a problem that’s so alarming yet so rare. But in general, the same tactics deployed throughout the Covid-19 pandemic still work at preventing breakthrough infections.

 

 

But how do they know if they have  stopped counting the since May 1st?  I guess by saying "breakthrough cases will occur" covers things.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by lovjahupepl

[Witness1970]

4 hours ago, lovjahupepl said:

 

8 fully vaccinated healthcare workers who went to a Vegas pool party got COVID-19 with mild symptoms - and at least 7 caught the Delta variant, a report said

This is not about vaccinated catching covid.  We all know by now that even the vaccinated can get covid and have mild symptoms.  This article even says so.  I understand the workers got upon finding out took precautions, self isolated, etc.  Also that is "rare" that a vaccinated person can get covid, we keep hearing it over an over gain so no need to focus on that. 

My concern is the fact that it says the following;

 

https://news.yahoo.com/8-fully-vaccinated-healthcare-workers-120920915.html

 

It's hard to tell how many vaccinated Americans are getting infected with Delta because on May 1 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stopped monitoring most reported cases among vaccinated people, focusing on cases resulting in hospitalization or death. The CDC's data wouldn't have picked up the cases among the Las Vegas health workers.

 

Why would the decision not to keep count of "vaccinated people" that contract covid after they get the shots make sense?  It seems to me this data would be very important to know the effectiveness of the shots so that things could be tweaked, etc.  However, it is tracked aggressively how many unvaccinated people get covid (whether in the hospital or not).  We are hearing it often recently.  Not trying to cause a debate I just find this part of the article interesting.  If data is going to be kept it should be done equally on both sides to get accurate effectiveness of the shot, infections, etc.  It's easy to find data on the unvaccinated but nothing gathered on vaccinated seems a bit one sided.  Also since they keep saying all the time when someone vaccinated get covid that  "breakthrough cases are "RARE". 
 

https://www.vox.com/22575227/covid-19-post-vaccine-breakthrough-infection-cases

What should we be doing about Covid-19 breakthrough infections?

It’s hard to come up with a strategy to deal with a problem that’s so alarming yet so rare. But in general, the same tactics deployed throughout the Covid-19 pandemic still work at preventing breakthrough infections.

 

 

But how do they know if they have  stopped counting the since May 1st?  I guess by saying "breakthrough cases will occur" covers things.

 

 

The only thing that can get rid of all these diseases is God's Kingdom.  We all know that.  All that can be done now is to mitigate cases, prevent as many deaths as possible.

 

I worry far less about getting an infection that will result in mild symptoms.  If any of these "breakthrough infections" causes death, they will be counted.

 

I don't think any 'twealing' will be necessary.  The vaccines are doing what they need to do for now.  The focus should be on preventing deaths.  When the deaths are lower, then focus on improving the vaccines if that is possible.

 

As I said earlier, we all know that God's Kingdom is the only thing that can stop al these diseases.

 

  Right now the focus needs to be on stopping people from dying.  WE are headed for a summer of a pandemic of the unvaccinated.  

[WilliamChew]

Dr John Campbell (24mins) talks about "Vaccine breakthrough infections"
 

He talks about a study in Israel of 152 hospitalized fully vaccinated patients.
Note there are a total of 304 patients hospitalized out of 5.17 million fully vaccinated patients in israel or 0.0000608%.
Median age was 71 and a lot had co-morbidities like diabetes, hypertension, etc.
22% of those hospitalized dies.

 

We can conclude that full vaccination does help. Few breakthrough infections result in severe illness.

Summary:
06:56 So israel with population of 9 million. Population-wide study of people who were hospitalized with covid-19 despite full vaccination in israel

07:14 So this paper gives us uh the definitive numbers on that.

17 hospitals were studied. Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine used.

18% of admissions were between 7-21 days.
Note that it takes 21 days after 2nd dose to give full resistance to infection.

 

08:34 Study made on 152 patients out of 304 who were hospitalized.
Now this is basically half of the 304 hospitalized fully vaccinated patients in israel.

09:04 Out of 5.17 million fully vaccinated people.

Without vaccination it would have been 250,000 people sick.

 

09:58 median age of hospitalized patients was 71.

10:25 38 had a poor outcome and poor outcome means they were ventilated or they died.

Mortality rate 22% (24/152)

 

12:10 Out of 152 patients, 108 had high blood pressure and we know hypertension is a significant risk factor for more severe covid.

13:00 So 73 or 48% had diabetes. A big risk factor as well of those hospitalized.

 

[X-Tryman]

8 hours ago, lovjahupepl said:

Why would the decision not to keep count of "vaccinated people" that contract covid after they get the shots make sense?

Absolutely. UK is tracking both groups and showing different statistic than what we hear on the news about Delta.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001358/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by X-Tryman

[Naturale]

“‘one of the great lies of the 20th century [is] that antibiotics, vaccines and doctors have saved us from pestilence. . . .

 

 

• g94 9/22 p. 31
• “In One Place After Another Pestilences”

[X-Tryman]

"The effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine against the Delta variant is “weaker” than health officials had hoped" Prime Minister of Isreal Naftali Bennett said on Friday.

"We do not know exactly to what degree the vaccine helps, but it is significantly less,” Bennett said.

 

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/for-first-time-since-march-855-new-coronavirus-cases-in-israel-674084

 

 

 

Declining Vaccine Efficacy—Particularly Among Older Individuals—Prompting Pfizer’s Emergency Booster Request, Former FDA Chief Says

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2021/07/11/declining-vaccine-efficacy-particularly-among-older-individuals-prompting-pfizers-emergency-booster-request-former-fda-chief-says/?sh=335ef32412dc

[carlos]

55 minutes ago, Naturale said:

“‘one of the great lies of the 20th century [is] that antibiotics, vaccines and doctors have saved us from pestilence. . . .

• g94 9/22 p. 31
• “In One Place After Another Pestilences”

Susanna, that quotation, taken out of context, could be understood as our publications saying vaccines are not useful. Of course, when you read the whole article it means something completely different.

 

That article is quoting a journalist who says that, despite all the advances in medicine, we are still suffering from diseases. The brothers quoted that comment as a confirmation that Jesus' prophecy about "pestilences in one place after another" is being fulfilled.

 

But of course that doesn't mean that antibiotics, vaccines or doctors are not helpful. The truth is that many diseases that used to kill millions are now a thing of the past thanks to those medical advances. Yet new diseases have appeared, and some old ones we still don't know how to stop.

 

On the other hand, several of our publications have stated what everybody knows: That vaccines are very effective in fighting viruses. For example:

 

*** wp19 No. 3 p. 5 The Search for Long Life ***
Not all scientists agree that antiaging treatments can prolong human life far beyond what is attainable today. True, human life expectancy has steadily increased since the 19th century. But this is mainly due to better hygiene, successful measures against infectious diseases, and the use of antibiotics and vaccines.

 

*** w15 3/1 p. 3 Why We Need to Be Saved ***
In modern times, the quest continues. Scientists have developed vaccines and medications that have subdued some diseases.

 

*** w81 10/15 p. 4 Man’s Battle with Disease ***
YES, sickness is an enemy, and man has fought a continuing battle against it for centuries. In the past 150 years, doctors have won some notable victories. Improved sanitation, as well as new vaccines and drugs, has, in some lands, helped make such ancient scourges as bubonic plague just a fading memory.

 

 

 

[carlos]

Yesterday I was told about a young man I knew. He was in his twenties, went to the dentist to have a molar extracted and died. They think the local anesthetic may have triggered an anaphylactic shock. This is a very rare occurrence but it happens to a number of people who at the dentist.

 

I couldn't help comparing it to the vaccine. Nobody in his right mind would avoid the dentist for fear of dying. Yet the chances of dying of an anaphylactic shock at the dentist are approximately one hundred times higher than those of dying as a reaction to the covid vaccines.

 

 

[runner92]

3 minutes ago, carlos said:

Yesterday I was told about a young man I knew. He was in his twenties, went to the dentist to have a molar extracted and died. They think the local anesthetic may have triggered an anaphylactic shock. This is a very rare occurrence but it happens to a number of people who at the dentist.

 

I couldn't help comparing it to the vaccine. Nobody in his right mind would avoid the dentist for fear of dying. Yet the chances of dying of an anaphylactic shock at the dentist are approximately one hundred times higher than those of dying as a reaction to the covid vaccines.

 

 

 

 

I really think everyone should just accept some are not comfortable and stop trying to make people out to be crazy. Dental procedures are common place. mRNA vaccines are new technology. Apples and oranges. Why are we doing this?

Edited July 18, 2021 by runner92

[runner92]

4 hours ago, X-Tryman said:

Absolutely. UK is tracking both groups and showing different statistic than what we hear on the news about Delta.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001358/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf

 

 

 

See. This is why I'm taking a waiting approach. 

[Shawnster]

2 minutes ago, runner92 said:

Dental procedures are common place. mRNA vaccines are new technology. Apples and oranges.

At one time dental procedures was new technology. 

 

This technology is new, but has already been applied millions of times.  If there was a real danger, we should see that by now. 

 

It's common that some do not trust new technologies. After time passes, the technology becomes proven.  After millions of applications, the technology becomes proven. 

 

Once proven, the technology is no longer new.  So, perhaps next year or five years from now we will no longer be able to day "yeah, but the technology is new and unknown." 

[carlos]

18 minutes ago, runner92 said:

I really think everyone should just accept some are not comfortable and stop trying to make people out to be crazy. Dental procedures are common place. mRNA vaccines are new technology. Apples and oranges. Why are we doing this?

Gabby, it seem you have made your choice and that's fine. I have no intention to convince you to take a vaccine.

 

But a couple pages back in this topic a member commented she doesn't know what do to because she is afraid of the virus but at the same time she's afraid of being the one case in a million that suffers a bad reaction from the vaccine. So I think the dentist example is very pertinent to show how we don't hesitate to do other activities that present a much higher risk than the covid vaccine.

 

Put in a different way: You are caught in the middle of a shootout in the street. Next to you there is an old building with the door open. You could seek refuge there, but you are afraid that sometimes old buildings collapse. While it's true that sometimes old buildings fall down, between that very unlikely risk and the immediate danger of being shot, the decision should be a no brainer.

[Ludwika]

1 hour ago, Naturale said:

“‘one of the great lies of the 20th century [is] that antibiotics, vaccines and doctors have saved us from pestilence. . . .

 

 

• g94 9/22 p. 31
• “In One Place After Another Pestilences”

Well it depends on how you see that statement. The discovery of penicillin saved thousands of people infected with TB. People who would have died before. Today we don't see TB hospitals. 

A vaccine stopped the scourge of polio and diphtheria. Both dreaded diseases until the availability of vaccines. But we don't see iron lungs now. Smallpox was greatly feared, and if you survived it, you were often terribly scarred. 

The pre antibiotic and pre vaccination world was a frightening place. Imagine every cut could lead to tetanus. And it wasn't uncommon. 

That's not to say we won't have pestilence, obviously we will. And the bible tells us that. But man has managed to prevent some of the terrible diseases common in the past. So modern medicine has its place. As does naturopathic medicine. 

Whether or not you choose a particular treatment is of course up to you. No one is under obligation to accept something that they don't yet trust.

For me personally with covid, it was a matter of weighing up which risk do I consider is the greatest and I made a personal decision based on that. Others have chosen differently. Interestingly, here there's been no pressure on ones to take the vaccine, quite the opposite, those who don't want it are the ones bringing pressure on those who do.

[Naturale]

it is a fact that these vaccines have not been well studied so if you choose to take it, you are now part of a real life study.

Dr. Don J. Tynes says.  “You understand that you are volunteering to be a part of a great experiment with receiving the COVID-19 vaccine,” 

He says he’s trying to protect his patients and the community from vaccines that are not well understood due to a lack of long-term studies. 
 

[Ludwika]

14 minutes ago, Naturale said:

it is a fact that these vaccines have not been well studied so if you choose to take it, you are now part of a real life study.

Dr. Don J. Tynes says.  “You understand that you are volunteering to be a part of a great experiment with receiving the COVID-19 vaccine,” 

He says he’s trying to protect his patients and the community from vaccines that are not well understood due to a lack of long-term studies. 
 

Yes, quite probably, but I'd rather take my chances on being part of a real life study than dying on a ventilator with covid 🤣 I decided to take the vaccine because I've had 7 bouts of pneumonia in the past, so I don't think I'd have much chance of surviving this pandemic otherwise if we get it here. It's all a bit "Russian roulette". We just have to do the best we can. I'm not advocating the same decision for any one else. If the vaccine keeps me going until Jehovah's day, that's mission accomplished! 😂

 

[dove]

1 hour ago, carlos said:

Put in a different way: You are caught in the middle of a shootout in the street. Next to you there is an old building with the door open. You could seek refuge there, but you are afraid that sometimes old buildings collapse. While it's true that sometimes old buildings fall down, between that very unlikely risk and the immediate danger of being shot, the decision should be a no brainer.

That is a good illustration; although if one really studies closely all sides of the emergence and vaccine safety and long term efficacy, I imagine it's more like, what if that building wasn't there?

What if your only choice was to take the 'shot' and chance whether it was going to be a superficial wound, or a mortal one?

 

That's more the way some are feeling about it....