Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Dolce vita]

12 hours ago, Dolce vita said:

I believe, dear Sister @Ahuvah, that there are as many possible interpretations as there are political scientists, which is probably why Jehovah asks us to align ourselves wisely with what the FDS says about the situation. However, this does not mean that we should ignore what is happening and being said, far, far from it, It's even exciting to follow.❤️

@AhuvahMy dearest Amanda, I am truly sorry for this misunderstanding. Of course you are right, that the talks given at the Kingdom Hall are aligned, they even have their source in the heart of the Governing Body. I was talking about the political analysts who are currently haunting the TV sets to dissect and shed light on the world situation. Each one has their own expertise, sometimes contradictory with that of their colleagues. This is why I said that the most reliable information, ultimately, only comes from the GB.😘😘

[Ahuvah]

20 minutes ago, Dolce vita said:

@AhuvahMy dearest Amanda, I am truly sorry for this misunderstanding. Of course you are right, that the talks given at the Kingdom Hall are aligned, they even have their source in the heart of the Governing Body. I was talking about the political analysts who are currently haunting the TV sets to dissect and shed light on the world situation. Each one has their own expertise, sometimes contradictory with that of their colleagues. This is why I said that the most reliable information, ultimately, only comes from the GB.😘😘

Hence the misunderstanding... political analysts weren't part of my comments. But tis true what you say ... just wasn't sure how it related. Easily done on here.

[Timl1980]

I was just talking to a lady on my route, she's the wife of a pastor of a local church. We've been talking for a couple years now, and I've been able to witness to her and the owners of the store and the attached farm.

 

Well just today she started telling me about how her husband is working on a new sermon today...and he is choosing to highlight how untrustworthy the government is and the news outlets are.

 

He says the Bible is the ultimate authority...and true Christians should be looking there for answers to what is going on in the world today.

 

I asked her...so what does he believe is going on?

 

She said he thinks we are in the end times...but he believes that it's up to humans to PROVE that they deserve entrance into heaven.

 

She said he is going to talk about HIS views on the current political situation...and how people need to stop blaming Trump for everything that's going wrong.

 

She saw the look on my face...she must have... because she threw up her hands and said, "I know, I know! I remember the verse you told me about last time...about Jesus saying his kingdom was no part of this world. But he really thinks Trump is ultimately a good guy just trying to do the right thing for our country, though."

 

We talked a little more about how those statements might affect their congregation...and she said to be honest...quite a few people weren't even coming regularly anymore since he had started expressing his pro Trump ideas months ago.

 

The owner of the store, (we'll call him Ken), said he agrees with her husband...and said I should really check out how a lot of Christians are supporting Trump because of his anti gay stance. 

 

We ended the conversation on a good note...but right before I left...the pastor's wife, (we'll call her Pam), approached me outside and said while she doesn't agree with certain things we teach...she really appreciates our consistency in remaining neutral. She said she agrees that all true Christians should be... especially after researching ON OUR WEBSITE about Christian neutrality!

 

So that was a cool experience!!

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Timl1980 said:

So that was a cool experience!!

Very cool! 

 

2 hours ago, Timl1980 said:

She said he thinks we are in the end times...but he believes that it's up to humans to PROVE that they deserve entrance into heaven.

 

You might circle back on this point in the future. None of us deserve everlasting life (or heaven,, in her understanding). 

 

(John 1:17) 17 Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwtsty&srctype=wol&bible=43001017&srcid=share

 

If course, the King James calls it "grace".   You would need to get over that hurdle. 

 

*** w56 7/1 p. 415 Questions From Readers ***

Likewise with the expression “undeserved kindness.” It is simply because people do not understand the meaning of this Scriptural Greek word in its several uses that the New World Translation Committee made the meaning unmistakable by the use of the above expression. In English the word “grace” has fourteen or more different meanings. Which one does it mean, as at John 1:14 (AV), “full of grace and truth”? Does it mean there “gracefulness”? Or “favor”? Or “the grant of temporary immunity”? Or what? The New World Translation leaves no doubt as to the meaning but renders it “undeserved kindness,” in keeping with the context, as, for instance, the succeeding verse 17.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1956488&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=4

 

(John 4:10) 10 In answer Jesus said to her: “If you had known of the free gift of God and who it is who says to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwtsty&srctype=wol&bible=43004010&srcid=share

 

Gift. Nobody deserves a gift. It's a free gift. If they deserve it, then it is owed to them. If it's owed, then it's not a gift, nor is it free. 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:06 AM by Shawnster

[New World Explorer]

USA is pausing military aid to Ukraine ..this includes any weapons in transit or in depots in Europe…its on the news everywhere so no need for a link .. 

Edited Tuesday at 02:32 AM by New World Explorer

[LeslieDean]

@ShawnsterGift. Nobody deserves a gift. It's a free gift. If they deserve it, then it is owed to them. If it's owed, then it's not a gift, nor is it free

I love the simple reasoning. I need to learn this. I have always been one to never keep it simple and I confuse things by trying to present everything at once. Thanks again.

[Tortuga]

3 hours ago, New World Explorer said:

USA is pausing military aid to Ukraine ..this includes any weapons in transit or in depots in Europe…its on the news everywhere so no need for a link .. 

It will be interesting to see if that causes the KOTN to increase 'pushing'.

[New World Explorer]

21 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

It will be interesting to see if that causes the KOTN to increase 'pushing'.

At the moment it looks like "pushing" is not against KOTN or vice versa.

Pushing is designed for "Ukraine" to accept terms set by Trump. 

Actually KOTN benefits here and if the pushing is increased against KOTS (at least US part of it) then US is simply not bothered by it. 

Trump even ordered to stop any cyber operations against Russia. 

At this stage there is zero pushing. However, this may change in the future and fast. Or may be not and Rev 17:17 kicks in suddenly?

Edited Tuesday at 06:04 AM by New World Explorer

[Ahuvah]

50 minutes ago, New World Explorer said:

However, this may change in the future and fast. Or may be not and Rev 17:17 kicks in suddenly?

 

Would 'suddenly' still be sudden if it happened in 4 weeks or so? 😄 

[New World Explorer]

19 minutes ago, Ahuvah said:

 

Would 'suddenly' still be sudden if it happened in 4 weeks or so? 😄 

That would be sudden-ish enough! 🤣

[Cushi]

I've seen many friends express in this thread that it’s hard to imagine the proclamation of peace and security coming about with all the turmoil in the world today. It’s hard for me to imagine satan’s system producing peace in any way. I only see it advancing from bad to worse. But perhaps it won’t come as a result of temporary peace. Could it be that it will come after the nations hand over their power to the UN? Perhaps the world leaders will be saying that now that the UN, an organization that's supposed to achieve and maintain international peace and security, has unprecedented power, that peace will soon follow. Maybe the will formulate that this is the only pathway to peace.

Only time will tell…

[JennyM]

On 3/3/2025 at 3:08 AM, Osprey said:

 

Why you hope you are wrong, Richie? Because your theory points to something very bad happening in near future? 

 

All in all, I see that many of you are thinking we may be very near the time when UN will get the power and all prophecies relating to that will go in motion. Oh, I really wish that to be true so much. All the people and whole planet needs Jehovah to step in so much. On the other hand it seems to me that downward spiral of this world may continue for some more time before that happens, and its problems may become even bigger than they are today. In any case, Jehovah will help us to go through anything. It is so interesting to watch world events nowadays, everything is moving so quickly.

Inflation , heatwave, disease, more economic inequality 

[JennyM]

On 3/3/2025 at 6:55 AM, Timl1980 said:

I have been watching world events even though I don't understand all of the politics behind them, especially in the past few days. My heart skips a beat every time something happens...so now I am trying to take a break since yesterday.

 

Our Watchtower study reader broke down in tears today while reading one of the paragraphs...he had to stop and restart several times...and I could just feel the sympathy from the rest of our little congregation.

 

Finally, he sat down after finishing the paragraph and had to compose himself. Our Watchtower study conductor took several more answers than normal for that paragraph...and afterwards everyone was hugging him and a few other people in our hall, (we just lost a 92 year old very faithful brother who sat time in prison for his faith...and another brother lost his wife to Alzheimer's last week as well).

 

Our reader told me that the words of that paragraph just hit him very deeply all of a sudden...and he just felt the weariness of this system and everything him and his family have been through over the past few years really hit home all of a sudden.

 

He said he is beyond ready for this system to end...and the recent events in the news have moved his "hope meter" over a few inches!

 

I completely understood his point...and it felt very good knowing we are all just feeling the same way!

 

 

 

 

 

 I shed tears reading this. 

We all feel the same of this wicked system. 

 

[Dolce vita]

6 hours ago, LeslieDean said:

@ShawnsterGift. Nobody deserves a gift. It's a free gift. If they deserve it, then it is owed to them. If it's owed, then it's not a gift, nor is it free

I love the simple reasoning. I need to learn this. I have always been one to never keep it simple and I confuse things by trying to present everything at once. Thanks again.

You are so right, Sister Leslie. We need to simplify our thinking, it will probably simplify our way of living.❤️

[Dolce vita]

1 hour ago, Cushi said:

I've seen many friends express in this thread that it’s hard to imagine the proclamation of peace and security coming about with all the turmoil in the world today. It’s hard for me to imagine satan’s system producing peace in any way. I only see it advancing from bad to worse. But perhaps it won’t come as a result of temporary peace. Could it be that it will come after the nations hand over their power to the UN? Perhaps the world leaders will be saying that now that the UN, an organization that's supposed to achieve and maintain international peace and security, has unprecedented power, that peace will soon follow. Maybe the will formulate that this is the only pathway to peace.

Only time will tell…

I could be wrong, but I sincerely believe that the UN will emerge as the only solution to bring some order to the current chaos. The withdrawal of the United States is being analyzed in Europe as a global catastrophe. Everyone is wondering how to get out of this quagmire, this nightmare. So maybe it's time to make the Beast grow super white teeth.

[LeolaRootStew]

4 hours ago, Cushi said:

I've seen many friends express in this thread that it’s hard to imagine the proclamation of peace and security coming about with all the turmoil in the world today. It’s hard for me to imagine satan’s system producing peace in any way. I only see it advancing from bad to worse. But perhaps it won’t come as a result of temporary peace. Could it be that it will come after the nations hand over their power to the UN? Perhaps the world leaders will be saying that now that the UN, an organization that's supposed to achieve and maintain international peace and security, has unprecedented power, that peace will soon follow. Maybe the will formulate that this is the only pathway to peace.

Only time will tell…

 

I think it only makes sense for the cry to happen after the UN gets power (sure, I could be wrong). The GB said they will likely give the UN power to solve some sort of problem. It wouldn't make much sense to declare peace before the solution to a problem, right? 

 

2 hours ago, Dolce vita said:

I could be wrong, but I sincerely believe that the UN will emerge as the only solution to bring some order to the current chaos. The withdrawal of the United States is being analyzed in Europe as a global catastrophe. Everyone is wondering how to get out of this quagmire, this nightmare. So maybe it's time to make the Beast grow super white teeth.

 

I agree. I think Trump likes to shake things up by making big moves as a negotiation tactic. This is a good opportunity for the world, and especially Europe, to reassess what the UN/Nato means to them. 

 

I still don't know what the "problem" is that the UN will be a solution for. The war in Ukraine and the financial destabilization of Europe seem too localized for all of the Nations to give their power for, unless those other Nations are convinced that their countries will suffer as a secondary consequence to Europe failing...? I hope it's that simple because that could genuinely play out in the next few months. 

[Dustparticle]

 China and Canada retaliates against USA with trading. https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/04/economy/trade-mexico-canada-china-tariffs-trump-hnk-intl/index.html
 

I know China is part KOTN and since Canada is basically above USA, I wonder will they be part of KOTN? Stay tune as the world turns.

[Sofia]

 

[Dages]

Trump asked Putin to be mediator for the Iranian nuclear program...

[ChrisW]

5 minutes ago, Dages said:

Trump asked Putin to be mediator for the Iranian nuclear program...

[Áine]

3 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I think it only makes sense for the cry to happen after the UN gets power (sure, I could be wrong). The GB said they will likely give the UN power to solve some sort of problem. It wouldn't make much sense to declare peace before the solution to a problem, right? 

 

 

I agree. I think Trump likes to shake things up by making big moves as a negotiation tactic. This is a good opportunity for the world, and especially Europe, to reassess what the UN/Nato means to them. 

 

I still don't know what the "problem" is that the UN will be a solution for. The war in Ukraine and the financial destabilization of Europe seem too localized for all of the Nations to give their power for, unless those other Nations are convinced that their countries will suffer as a secondary consequence to Europe failing...? I hope it's that simple because that could genuinely play out in the next few months. 

Just as a point of interest can you find a scripture where it says that it will be a cry of peace and security…. Because as far as I can see and nothing has changed regarding this in the previous 50 years

 It doesn’t say a ‘cry or shout’ instead it says ‘saying’ … I’ve always thought that there is a huge different between the two because if we look at that prophecy using the word it says in the scriptures then it could be interpreted very differently

[ChrisW]

13 minutes ago, Áine said:

It doesn’t say a ‘cry or shout’ instead it says ‘saying’

What a difference a word makes. But you are correct.

[LeolaRootStew]

11 minutes ago, Áine said:

Just as a point of interest can you find a scripture where it says that it will be a cry of peace and security…. Because as far as I can see and nothing has changed regarding this in the previous 50 years

 It doesn’t say a ‘cry or shout’ instead it says ‘saying’ … I’ve always thought that there is a huge different between the two because if we look at that prophecy using the word it says in the scriptures then it could be interpreted very differently

 

I think it's old verbage. The Bible seems to be translated "say" for all that time, though. Cry is a synonym for "say" and "proclaim", so I don't think it changes the meaning, but I agree that it changes the visual for me. "Say" peace seems less loud, whereas "cry" seems loud, or even desperate.

 

Spoiler

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1986725?q=cry+peace&p=par

*** w86 10/1 p. 18 par. 9 Peace From God—When? ***
9 “Peace and security!” Paul here alerts us to the proclamation that will be heard at the climax of Christ’s “presence.” (1 Thessalonians 5:3) Will we soon hear that cry? Where could such a call for the world’s peace and security originate? Obviously not from among Christ’s followers, for Jesus stated that neither they nor his Kingdom are “part of the world.” (John 15:19; 17:14, 16; 18:36) Those who herald forth this cry must therefore be worldlings who are opposed to the incoming Kingdom of God. They are part of the world that ‘lies in the power of the wicked one,’ Satan the Devil. (1 John 5:19) Like the political and religious leaders of Jeremiah’s day, these will speak “the vision of their own heart,” saying, “Peace is what you people will come to have,” wrongly contending that such peace is from God. How false their claim will prove to be!—Jeremiah 23:16, 17, 19, 20.

 

A chain of events leads up to this cry of “Peace and security!”

Spoiler

*** w54 6/15 pp. 380-381 par. 16 Maintaining the Way of Favor ***
16 How shall we know when the time of the revelation of Jesus Christ has arrived and has begun? Notice the sign given to the Thessalonians by Paul in his letter quoted from in the preceding paragraph. When they are saying, “Peace and security!” the time has arrived. And how will this be so? Persecution of those taken along into God’s favor is certain to continue and increase at the hands of those left desolate of God’s presence. (Rev. 12:17; 13:7) These abandoned ones, at Satan’s instigation, will muster all their forces in final all-out war against Jehovah’s enthroned King and will seek to wipe out the new nation of spiritual Israel that Christ is building as a part of the new world. It might be they will make it appear they have accomplished their purpose and for this reason cry, “Peace and security!” Then it is that Christ reveals himself to the nations in all the majesty and power of his great invisible presence.—Ezek. 38:18, 19, 21-23.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1954448&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=20

 

[ChrisW]

Maybe because there is an exclamation point at the end of the sentence.  It has to be something different than other statements.

[cme]

Matt: 24:44 On this account, you too proves yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it.

 

If we read all of Matthew 24, Jesus admonishes his disciples to prove themselves ready.  We do not want to be distracted with all the noise in the world.  Let's look beyond the noise.   It could make us anxious, distract us from what really is important.  Kingdom.   Remember, Satan is a Master at what he does.  Matt:24:43  "if the householder had known in what watch...., he would have kept awake.......He would have payed attention to the situation on hand and kept busy with his own chores.  Making sure that when his master arrived everything was in its place.

 

As far as the time period we need not look further, we are in it.  However, trying to piece the puzzle together as to who, what, when and where is above our pay grade. 

 

Jehovah knows what He is doing.