GB 2025 Update #4

[Landon1285]

3 minutes ago, johnnyjw01 said:

then why the first Christians didn’t celebrate them?

Partly from the Jews. “In the Bible there is no instance of birthday celebrations among the Jews themselves,” points out M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopædia, adding: “In fact, the later Jews at least regarded birthday celebrations as parts of idolatrous worship.”

 

Of course, early Christians had reasons of their own for not celebrating birthdays. Back then birthdays had strong connections with pagan religion that are less noticeable today. “The custom of commemorating the day of birth is connected . . . in its content, with certain primitive religious principles,” points out the Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics.

[Dages]

In the Bible, no servants of God are doing it. 

 

Some people have used Job story about the "day" his children were gathering. But one could answer that even for this Job was praying God in case it was sinful. Job 1:5.

I'm not touching birthdays with a 10 feet pole.

 

Also life doesn't start at birth. So "thank you for 1 more year didn't really work". That celebration isn't oriented to Jehovah anyway

[Sheep]

To be honest, I don't really understand why this discussion about birthdays is even taking place! Maybe I missed something. At this moment in time, the FAQ page about birthdays on jw.org is still the same as it always was. So why is everybody wondering about it?

[Dages]

I agree, Eric.

It's like the Slave would say it's ok to smoke pot because it's not bad for your health (lol), but then people would start to wonder about when the Slave will do the Cocaine update.

[Landon1285]

24 minutes ago, Sheep said:

To be honest, I don't really understand why this discussion about birthdays is even taking place! Maybe I missed something. At this moment in time, the FAQ page about birthdays on jw.org is still the same as it always was. So why is everybody wondering about it?

Because the reasoning used for toasting can easily be used for Birthdays.

 

Similar reasoning in the past was used in regards to the piñata.

 

*** g03 9/22 p. 24 The Piñata—An Ancient Tradition ***

When considering whether to include a piñata at a social gathering, Christians should be sensitive to the consciences of others. (1 Corinthians 10:31-33) A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues. The Bible says: “Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person.”—1 Corinthians 10:24.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=102003687&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par= 13

 

I'm not saying I agree either way but that's what I've observed from the different reactions to the GB Update. 

[bvr]

Governing Body Update #5 is going to be interesting. 

[Michał]

What, I’m going to say I say because I love you very much and I care about you 🥰
 

I can’t understand either why we’re discussing if birthdays are okay 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

The first principle is if the custom is insulting Jehovah. Well, all evidence suggests that it is. During birthdays one  focuses on himself/herself. If we don’t want to draw too much attention to ourselves (like it was mentioned in current RC by promoting our own spirituality to a wide audience), then so much more we don’t want to do it by celebrating our own birth. Today, birthdays are sugarcoated but the basic premise remains - focusing undue attention on oneself. 
 

We wouldn’t have this discussion at all if Satan didn’t immerse vast majority of human cultures with this practice. We are surrounded by it and I guess because of that some of the friends became numb to its core meaning.

 

In some cultures it’s okay to have multiple wife/husbands. It may seem to

people brought up in those cultures that’s natural. But it isn’t. And we have Bible principles to prove it. 
 

The same is with birthdays. We have Bible principles about it too:

• Psalm 94:4
• Psslm 138:6
• Luke 14:7-11
• 1 Corinthian 13:4
• James 4:16
• 1 John 2:17
• Revelation 22:8-9

 

[Qapla]

17 minutes ago, bvr said:

Governing Body Update #5 is going to be interesting. 

 

Aren't they all?

 

Or do you have some other reason to state the obvious ...

 

[Jwanon]

5 hours ago, Sheep said:

, I don't really understand why this discussion about birthdays is even taking place

 

Extrapolation 

[blanchard]

4 hours ago, bvr said:

Governing Body Update #5 is going to be interesting.

No, I think it will be GB Update #7 because it will be perfect 

[Ludwika]

6 hours ago, Sheep said:

To be honest, I don't really understand why this discussion about birthdays is even taking place! Maybe I missed something. At this moment in time, the FAQ page about birthdays on jw.org is still the same as it always was. So why is everybody wondering about it?

Yes, it's still the same, and very relevant to our modern day;  birthday's are an intrinsic part of astrology (which is popular with many. People ask "what's your sign?" referring to the zodiac), and since this is spiritistic, it's not a conscience matter. It's something Christians want no part of. 

Interestingly enough, many have experienced outright persecution for refusing to celebrate birthdays. If it doesn't matter, they wouldn't have felt Satan's hot breath on the back of their neck, putting them under intense pressure to compromise.

[Áine]

7 hours ago, Sheep said:

To be honest, I don't really understand why this discussion about birthdays is even taking place! Maybe I missed something. At this moment in time, the FAQ page about birthdays on jw.org is still the same as it always was. So why is everybody wondering about it?

I can’t like your post enough…. I find this discussion ridiculous 

[Ivar]

  

9 hours ago, johnnyjw01 said:

then why the first Christians didn’t celebrate them?

 

 

9 hours ago, Landon1285 said:

Partly from the Jews. “In the Bible there is no instance of birthday celebrations among the Jews themselves,” points out M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopædia, adding: “In fact, the later Jews at least regarded birthday celebrations as parts of idolatrous worship.”

 

Of course, early Christians had reasons of their own for not celebrating birthdays. Back then birthdays had strong connections with pagan religion that are less noticeable today. “The custom of commemorating the day of birth is connected . . . in its content, with certain primitive religious principles,” points out the Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics.

Right:
 

"Like many civilizations, Romans enjoyed celebrating the start of things, called a dies natalis (birth day). Temples, cities, and people were often remembered for their days of birth. All this in a society where a baby living past a year old was quite an accomplishment. As Kathryn Argetsinger has written, the birthday in the Roman mindset was much closer to a cultic religious celebration than it is today, predominantly because each person had a genius (a tutelary spirit) that they sacrificed to on their day of birth. This deity protected an individual for the year, and thus there was a re-up of that protection annually through the performance of a sacrifice. Birthday parties were a key mix of religion and friendship, where sacrifices were made, incense was burned, ritual cakes were made and eaten, and white robes were worn. It was also a Roman rather than Greek tradition, and one where the person with the birthday was much more generous than those attending the celebration. As Argetsinger notes, "Such birthday celebrations, whether of family members, personal friends, or patrons take place in that crucial sphere where Roman social relations and Roman religious practice intersect, and demonstrate how difficult it is to understand either in isolation from the other." Rome was an agricultural society that used festivals to celebrate life--of animals, of crops, of children--and birthdays had a similar dynamic."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drsarahbond/2016/10/01/the-history-of-the-birthday-and-the-roman-calendar/

In this context, it makes sense the early Christians decided to not celebrate birthdays. 

[Ivar]

Good points! I asked chatGPT how persons who speculate on birthdays may reply. I wonder what you guys think of it.

Dages' comments:

 

10 hours ago, Dages said:

In the Bible, no servants of God are doing it. 

 

"Many practices we now accept (like wedding anniversaries, baby showers or graduation parties) weren't celebrated by faithful worshippers either."

 

10 hours ago, Dages said:

Some people have used Job story about the "day" his children were gathering. But one could answer that even for this Job was praying God in case it was sinful. Job 1:5.

 

"He prayed just in case his children sinned — not because birthday celebrations themselves were sinful. The verse says nothing about birthdays directly, only that they had feasts "each on his own day.""
 

10 hours ago, Dages said:

Also life doesn't start at birth. So "thank you for 1 more year didn't really work". 

 

"The point about life not starting at birth is not directly relevant to whether or not it's wrong to give thanks for another year of life. In the Bible, life is measured in years from birth."

 

10 hours ago, Dages said:

That celebration isn't oriented to Jehovah anyway

 

"Like with other gatherings (anniversaries, graduations, etc.), it depends on the motive and tone."
 

10 hours ago, Dages said:

I'm not touching birthdays with a 10 feet pole.

 

My own comment: You don't have to touch birthdays even if the GB makes it a conscience matter. I always wear a helmet when cycling. For me it would feel as a sin towards Jehovah to cycle without a helmet. But 90% of Dutch brothers and sisters do not wear a helmet.

Because it is a conscience matter, I won't force them to wear a helmet. I suppose they think the risk of getting an accident is very small, and I understand that reasoning. (Although I still think my own take is right haha.)

 

It seems the GB has been shifting more and more from rules to principles regarding things the Bible is not very clear about. But that doesn't mean you should start doing what used to be clearly prohibited. You have to do your own research and reach your own conclusion, as you seem to have done.

[Robinson]

I think alot of people are asking about other things because the GB already said that we shouldn't expect them to make rules on everything and that we have to use our conscience. Seeing once that toasting was indeed seen as having to do with pagan or non-christian religious things, I do wonder myself about other practices or celebrations that are no longer seen as religious anymore.

[Dages]

1 hour ago, Ivar said:

Good points! I asked chatGPT how persons who speculate on birthdays may reply

That's not a great way to use AI...  

Wasting time on AI that would not understand the meaning of what I wrote... sigh
You should have debated against the AI and help it understand how it was mistaken, if you wanted to be upbuilding.

 

Birthdays aren't a conscience matter.

Edited Wednesday at 11:13 AM by Dages

[LeolaRootStew]

12 minutes ago, Dages said:

That's not a great way to use AI...  

Wasting time on AI that would not understand the meaning of what I wrote... sigh
You should have debated against the AI and help it understand how it was mistaken, if you wanted to be upbuilding.

 

Birthdays aren't a conscience matter.

 

I agree. You might as well ask a non-Witness why it's ok for us to celebrate Christmas.

[Michał]

9 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I agree. You might as well ask a non-Witness why it's ok for us to celebrate Christmas.

Good one 😆

[Dages]

I did the same : 

 

1 hour ago, Ivar said:

11 hours ago, Dages said:

In the Bible, no servants of God are doing it. 

 

"Many practices we now accept (like wedding anniversaries, baby showers or graduation parties) weren't celebrated by faithful worshippers either."

"Those "practices" aren't mentioned in the Bible at all, whereas the two birthday celebrations recorded were by pagan rulers and resulted in murder. One is an omission, the other is a condemnation."
 

1 hour ago, Ivar said:

11 hours ago, Dages said:

Some people have used Job story about the "day" his children were gathering. But one could answer that even for this Job was praying God in case it was sinful. Job 1:5.

 

"He prayed just in case his children sinned — not because birthday celebrations themselves were sinful. The verse says nothing about birthdays directly, only that they had feasts "each on his own day.""

 

"Job’s prayer wasn't a blanket precaution against all possible sins; it was a specific reaction to the celebratory feasts his children were holding. He wasn't praying because they might have cursed God while doing their chores. The context of the passage links his fear of them sinning directly to their feasting. It shows his deep concern that the celebratory atmosphere of a "day" dedicated to a person could lead to the kind of self-centeredness and revelry that would cause them to forget God, a concern serious enough to warrant a burnt offering for each child. The fact that the story is set up this way, with the righteous Job feeling the need to atone for his children's feasting, is a stark warning."

 

1 hour ago, Ivar said:

11 hours ago, Dages said:

Also life doesn't start at birth. So "thank you for 1 more year didn't really work". 

 

"The point about life not starting at birth is not directly relevant to whether or not it's wrong to give thanks for another year of life. In the Bible, life is measured in years from birth."

"Celebrating an anniversary of an arbitrary point in a person's life (birth) instead of the true beginning of life (conception) is a man-made tradition, not a biblical principle. You're confusing a record-keeping convention with a theological one. The Bible's use of birthdates is for historical context, not as an endorsement for celebration."

 

1 hour ago, Ivar said:

11 hours ago, Dages said:

That celebration isn't oriented to Jehovah anyway

 

"Like with other gatherings (anniversaries, graduations, etc.), it depends on the motive and tone."

"This is a false equivalency. Anniversaries and graduations celebrate a milestone, a completed journey, or a specific accomplishment—like a new beginning or the conclusion of a major effort. A birthday, however, is a self-centered celebration of an individual's existence, a tradition that originates in paganism. The two are fundamentally different in their motive and their origin, and to conflate them is to ignore the historical and theological context of each. One is a matter of remembering an event; the other is a matter of celebrating a person, which, when taken to an extreme, can easily turn into self-worship."

 

1 hour ago, Ivar said:

11 hours ago, Dages said:

I'm not touching birthdays with a 10 feet pole.

 

My own comment: You don't have to touch birthdays even if the GB makes it a conscience matter. I always wear a helmet when cycling. For me it would feel as a sin towards Jehovah to cycle without a helmet. But 90% of Dutch brothers and sisters do not wear a helmet.

Because it is a conscience matter, I won't force them to wear a helmet. I suppose they think the risk of getting an accident is very small, and I understand that reasoning. (Although I still think my own take is right haha.)

"This is a false equivalence. A helmet is a modern safety measure based on a personal risk assessment. A birthday celebration is a tradition with pagan origins condemned by biblical precedent, where the only two recorded celebrations resulted in murder. You're comparing a pragmatic choice with a theological principle."



Let's not think with ChatGPT. 

[carlos]

1 hour ago, Ivar said:

It seems the GB has been shifting more and more from rules to principles regarding things the Bible is not very clear about. But that doesn't mean you should start doing what used to be clearly prohibited. You have to do your own research and reach your own conclusion, as you seem to have done.

 

Ivar, we have clear instructions from the Slave, based on sound scriptural reasoning, that Christians should not celebrate birthdays. If in the future they revisit that subject and realize the evidence is not that strong and that a rule about birthdays or any other subject is not necessary, then each Christian will decide what he prefers to do.

 

But until then, we are not going to argue with the Slave and will not allow discussions that argue against the Slave. There are many places on the internet where questioning the Slave is welcome but this is not one of them.

 

So friends, please, let's all drop the subject. 

[Landon1285]

I like this article response too (non Ai lol):

 

*** g04 7/8 p. 30 From Our Readers ***

Piñatas I read with interest the article “The Piñata—An Ancient Tradition.” (September 22, 2003) It left me with some questions. The ties to false religion are well-documented. But the article seemed to take the position that as long as it doesn’t bother someone’s conscience, it is OK. What about birthdays and holidays such as Christmas?

 

SW United States

 

“Awake!” responds: Christians refrain from any celebrations or customs that continue to involve false religious beliefs or activities that violate Bible principles. For example, the Bible definitely puts birthday celebrations in a bad light. (Genesis 40:20; Matthew 14:6-10) However, if it is very obvious that a custom has no current false religious significance and involves no violation of Bible principles, each Christian must make a personal decision as to whether he will follow such a custom.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=102004486&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=16

 

 

[Brother_Bliss]

2 hours ago, Ivar said:

Good points! I asked chatGPT how persons who speculate on birthdays may reply. I wonder what you guys think of it.

 

Well ChatGTP is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and therefore doesn't qualify for membership on this forum. It shouldn't have a voice here. 

 

Artificial intelligence is just a glorified search engine. Use Google or Bing just a year or so before all this "A.I." hype and you would have found the same answers across multiple websites, because the answer it's giving you is simply how the "world alienated from God" feels about the subject.

 

The Bible encourages us to use our "power of reason" that is trained by the "wisdom from above", and not on that of other men, or even worse, A.I.

 

So what happens at a birthday? In the past the celebration was meant to appease a spirit. Sure, nobody thinks that anymore. But even still, people gather around and lift the birthday person up on a pedestal so that he/she is "King for a day". They sing praises to him. They bring him sacrifices and gifts. If he's an adult, there can be heavy drinking and drugs, and illicit things going on under the covers after becoming intoxicated. 

 

Can you count the number if Bible principles that have been breached, broken, and ignored?

 

ChatGTP can't even begin to understand that Christians are supposed to be humble and "not think of themselves more than it is necessary to think". A birthday celebration flies in the face of all that. 

[Ivar]

1 hour ago, carlos said:

Ivar, we have clear instructions from the Slave, based on sound scriptural reasoning, that Christians should not celebrate birthdays. If in the future they revisit that subject and realize the evidence is not that strong and that a rule about birthdays or any other subject is not necessary, then each Christian will decide what he prefers to do.

 

But until then, we are not going to argue with the Slave and will not allow discussions that argue against the Slave. There are many places on the internet where questioning the Slave is welcome but this is not one of them.

 

So friends, please, let's all drop the subject. 

 

I agree with dropping the subject, only the future will tell.

In defence of the speculation side, thinking about what may change in the future and the reasons for those changes does not necessarily equal arguing against the GB. Sometimes it's simply a way to understand how teachings are formed or may be refined over time.

And maybe Jehovah can even use the thoughtful questions and arguments of brothers and sisters to help the GB make a decision. (One example would be Numbers 27:1-7.)

But yeah, let this issue rest until we hear more!

[Miss Bea]

B’  days? Who would even want to celebrate such? Or even consider it? 
And, I’m afraid AI can be intrusive, and a time waster…

[carlos]

50 minutes ago, Ivar said:

thinking about what may change in the future and the reasons for those changes does not necessarily equal arguing against the GB

 

As per our membership policy, which all members agree to when joining: 

 

Quote

Do not use topics, replies, or your status updates to sound off on what you think the organization should do differently. It is discouraging, and quite frankly not up to you anyhow.

 

If there's something we don't fully understand or think should be done differently, we are welcome to write to the branch about it, but posting it here doesn't benefit anyone and only seeds doubts. It's much better to contribute something that upbuilds or encourages the friends.