Vaping - anyone know our view?

[Brenda]

Does anyone know of anything printed in our literature on vaping?  I tried researching...but couldn't find anything.

 

Reason is a sister is encouraging her studies who smoke to switch to vaping.  She says it's ONLY WATER.  Everything I've read says they have 5 ingredients minimum; including something found in anti-freeze and chloroform (I think).  Also on the news...one state was trying to ban them.

 

I don't know if switching from cigarettes to other chemicals is the way we should go.  Can a person get baptized if vaping?  

 

I'd love to know your thoughts.

 

 

 

[trottigy]

Vaping is the same thing as smoking or using a nicotine patch.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette

They don't call the e-CIGARETTES for nothing

You still buy tobacco to use them. And you still inhale nicotine, just in a mist instead of smoke.

Edited September 16, 2015 by trottigy

[vern]

Well the watchtower will probly never print a substitute vice to try and quit a vice so i doubt you will get that in print.  But i can tell you i did something similar in my efforts to quit smoking when i first was coming into the truth.

Personally i would view vaping as pretty much the same thing as smoking for obvious reasons; but whether technically from a congregational and elder's point of view i have not heard anyone talk about it.

I understand the idea the sister is getting at but she'll probly get a lot of other opinions.  I'd say chewing gum would be another activity that in my estimation would do a much better job.  8}

But fleshly practices sometimes takes a little time to get rooted out.  as long as the person is working a path of change they will eventually quailify for expanded spiritual growth.

[ReadYourBible]

Does anyone know of anything printed in our literature on vaping?  I tried researching...but couldn't find anything.

 

Reason is a sister is encouraging her studies who smoke to switch to vaping.  She says it's ONLY WATER.  Everything I've read says they have 5 ingredients minimum; including something found in anti-freeze and chloroform (I think).  Also on the news...one state was trying to ban them.

 

I don't know if switching from cigarettes to other chemicals is the way we should go.  Can a person get baptized if vaping?  

 

I'd love to know your thoughts.

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/102011085/1/0

 

Vaping is very similar to hookah "smoking". Hookahs use shisha, which is basically tobacco covered/soaked in molasses or a similar substance which contains various flavors and such.

 

Vaping would fall under the category of water pipes I think.

Bidis: These small, hand-rolled cigarettes are commonly used in Asian lands. Bidis deliver several times more tar, nicotine, and carbon monoxide than do regular cigarettes.

Cigars: These are made of filler tobacco tightly wrapped in tobacco leaf or in paper made from tobacco. The slightly alkaline tobacco of cigars, as compared with the acidic tobacco of cigarettes, allows nicotine to be absorbed through the mouth even if the cigar is unlit.

Kreteks, or clove cigarettes: These usually contain about 60 percent tobacco and 40 percent cloves. They deliver more tar, nicotine, and carbon monoxide than do regular cigarettes.

Pipes: Smoking a pipe is not a safe alternative to smoking cigarettes, for both habits can cause many of the same cancers and other diseases.

Smokeless tobacco: This includes chewing tobacco, snuff, and flavored gutkha used in Southeast Asia. Nicotine is absorbed into the bloodstream through the mouth. Smokeless tobacco use is every bit as dangerous as other tobacco use.

Water pipes (bongs, hookahs, narghiles, shishas): With these devices, tobacco smoke passes through water before being inhaled. Nevertheless, the process may not reduce the amount of toxins, including cancer-causing agents, that get into the lungs.

[AH173]

It's simple. All on page 122 of Bible Teach book.

[vern]

Eventually 2 co 7:1 will expand into dietary choices that harm.  The watchtower already has quietly had a picture with a meal with that scripture posted under it; but the article had no explanation so it was a very quiet application to principle.

[Musky]

Eventually 2 co 7:1 will expand into dietary choices that harm.  The watchtower already has quietly had a picture with a meal with that scripture posted under it; but the article had no explanation so it was a very quiet application to principle.

 

What?

[Brenda]

Thanks everyone.  An elder told her it was okay.  I'm going to call one of the many vapor shops and try to find out if they all contain chemicals or can you buy one that only uses water.

[AH173]

Does anyone know of anything printed in our literature on vaping?  I tried researching...but couldn't find anything.

 

Reason is a sister is encouraging her studies who smoke to switch to vaping.  She says it's ONLY WATER.  Everything I've read says they have 5 ingredients minimum; including something found in anti-freeze and chloroform (I think).  Also on the news...one state was trying to ban them.

 

I don't know if switching from cigarettes to other chemicals is the way we should go.  Can a person get baptized if vaping?  

 

I'd love to know your thoughts.

  

Thanks everyone.  An elder told her it was okay.  I'm going to call one of the many vapor shops and try to find out if they all contain chemicals or can you buy one that only uses water.

My dear Sister Brenda. Are you under the impression that people that 'vape' are only inhaling basically 'water'? And your spirit appointed elder said it's OK?

There's info on this subject from credible sources. If an individual takes in their body a chemical that is mind altering and especially unprescribed by a certified medical authorized practitioner - it's a serious matter with Jehovah.

[Brenda]

  

My dear Sister Brenda. Are you under the impression that people that 'vape' are only inhaling basically 'water'? And your spirit appointed elder said it's OK?

There's info on this subject from credible sources. If an individual takes in their body a chemical that is mind altering and especially unprescribed by a certified medical authorized practitioner - it's a serious matter with Jehovah.

 

I totally agree with you Ashley.  

 

The sister has been saying this to her 2 studies and encourages them to use these vaping products.  I told her several times how the news media talked about how dangerous they were and not regulated.  I searched on 'google' ... everything was negative.

 

She said they were wrong...it's only water.  I don't know where she got her information.

 

So on Sunday after the meeting, we happened to be standing together when my SO walked up...and I asked him in front of her.  He basically said it was just trading one chemical for another.  She called him after that and explained that it was just water...then she called me to tell me that he said it was okay.

 

I think maybe he hasn't researched this and just wanted to appease her.  (She has a very strong personality.)

 

I'm with her on her studies...so I feel they are being mislead.

 

I'll reply back after I talk to a couple of shops...maybe I'll have more information.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Brenda

[AH173]

Sister Brenda, I hope the sister who studies with this Bible student isn't an appointed pioneer with your congregation who as you say is encouraging this to the student.

Well I'm at a loss on this issue from what I hear from credible sources of news.

I guess you, the sister who is encouraging this and the appointed elder will be informed when they do their research on the topic. I guess the elder in question could easily talk to the circuit overseer or call the Branch for good information if he desires to.

[Brenda]

We actually have our CO this week.  I hope to be able to talk with him.  He's new this time so don't know him yet.

 

She's not a pioneer...but she does partake of the emblems.  She gets pioneer hours, but doesn't want the stress of having to get the hours because she has a lot of health issues.

[AH173]

It should be enlightening on the discussion. Please keep us informed, if you can. Thanks.

When I am asked something as to whether it's right /wrong or a personal judgment decision - from a Bible study especially, I would say 'I'll get back to the person soon' if I don't particularly know instead of quickly offering my advice on matters on things that Jehovah may hate (from box on pg 122 in Bible Teach book).

James 3:1 - Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgment.

Edited September 16, 2015 by AH173

[Dages]

This is not only water. There are many chemicals and nicotine in it. It's a big NO.

[On the huh]

Vaping was once seen as a way to stop smoking altogether, but it hasn't.  Some now start with vaping, then move on to smoking.

It would not surprise me that one day the dangers of vaping will come to light.  What are those chemicals doing to you?  Do we really know the long-term effects? And all those who took it up to replace tobacco will be suing the vaping companies.

[carlos]

I'm sure that sister is doing her best, she just has a wrong understanding of what vaping is.

 

Rather than giving a clearcut yes/no answer, I would refer to the Bible principles that apply to smoking, and see if some of them apply to vaping too. The God's Love book, chapter 8, paragraphs 20-25 lists five principles related to the use of tobacco and drugs:

 

- Avoid practices that cause harm to our body or create addiction (2 Corinthians 7:1).

- Avoid substances that shorten our life or dull our mind (Matthew 22:37).

- Practices that are detrimental to our health show a gross disrespect for the gift of life (Acts 17:24, 25).

- Love your neighbor, not exposing them to smoke or dangerous substances that affect their health (Matthew 22:39).

- Obey the authorities, avoiding drugs forbidden by them (Titus 3:1).

[bohemian]

Definitely a BIG No-No.

http://www.vapersoul.com/what-is-vaping/

My wife conducts smoking-cessation sessions under the British NHS and definitely does not recommend 'vaping' to her clients. While they are 'vaping' they have NOT quit smoking.

Also the physical act of using the e-cigarette deters them from quitting.

[AH173]

Thanks for the info Brother Christopher. I stand corrected. They have a 'zero' nicotine liquid. Then again, if that's the purpose, one would pay money to inhale water vapor? Also, does one want to show others as being a fellow 'vaper' (electronic cigarette smoker)? Could that stumble others? What signal will it send to others? Just food for thought.

[Tortuga]

So on Sunday after the meeting, we happened to be standing together when my SO walked up...and I asked him in front of her.  He basically said it was just trading one chemical for another.  She called him after that and explained that it was just water...then she called me to tell me that he said it was okay.

 

Ask the sister if she has tried vaping, when she wakes up in the hospital with three brothers in the room I'm sure her doctor and the committee will be able to convince her it was wrong.

[carlos]

Ask the sister if she has tried vaping, when she wakes up in the hospital with three brothers in the room I'm sure her doctor and the committee will be able to convince her it was wrong.

 

From my absolute ignorance of what vaping is, I suppose it depends. As long as the "vape" contains nicotine or other drugs, it's clearly a no-no.

 

But if there is truly a variant with zero nicotine or other drugs, that doesn't create addiction and is not harmful for your health, and not forbidden by the law, I don't see any problem with it. If you want to pay to inhale water vapor with a nice fragrance, that's your choice.

[E_B]

From my absolute ignorance of what vaping is, I suppose it depends. As long as the "vape" contains nicotine or other drugs, it's clearly a no-no.

 

But if there is truly a variant with zero nicotine or other drugs, that doesn't create addiction and is not harmful for your health, and not forbidden by the law, I don't see any problem with it. If you want to pay to inhale water vapor with a nice fragrance, that's your choice.

 

I was recently in a car group where the question of vaping or e-cigarettes came up.  Some were adamant that because tobacco/nicotine was an ingredient, ingesting it an any form was forbidden.  Others were struggling to see the difference between ingesting one mind-altering substance (nicotine) in a manner that has few, if any, proven harmful physiological affects (vaping), and ingesting another mind-altering substance (alcohol) that, if used in moderation, has few proven harmful physiologic affects.  

 

The fact is, it's not just the congregation that is facing this question.  From the debates I've heard in the media, no one has really been able to point to any solid evidence that vaping nicotine products harms your body in a physical way.  True, nicotine is still an addictive substance, but then so is alcohol.  I'm guessing why we haven't gotten any specific guidance from the Faithful Slave on this is because there simply isn't enough facts out there to rationalize a hard rule one way or other right now.  Maybe someday soon.

 

In my area, most public areas-- restaurants, airports, etc., still ban the use of e-cigarettes in indoor environments.  Again, they seem to have made this decision based on a lack of conclusive scientific research proving that it is in fact harmless.  I suspect that the a big driver of the ban, though, is simply the social stigma of standing next to someone who is exhaling "smoke" (actual smoke or simply water vapor).  

[Tortuga]

From my absolute ignorance of what vaping is, I suppose it depends. As long as the "vape" contains nicotine or other drugs, it's clearly a no-no.

 

But if there is truly a variant with zero nicotine or other drugs, that doesn't create addiction and is not harmful for your health, and not forbidden by the law, I don't see any problem with it. If you want to pay to inhale water vapor with a nice fragrance, that's your choice.

 

Agreed. My post was just a humorous rhetoric, or so I hoped...

[carlos]

The fact is, it's not just the congregation that is facing this question.  From the debates I've heard in the media, no one has really been able to point to any solid evidence that vaping nicotine products harms your body in a physical way.  True, nicotine is still an addictive substance, but then so is alcohol.  I'm guessing why we haven't gotten any specific guidance from the Faithful Slave on this is because there simply isn't enough facts out there to rationalize a hard rule one way or other right now.  Maybe someday soon.

 

There is a huge difference between nicotine and alcohol. Alcohol is food. It has nourishing value. A small amount of alcohol has beneficial effects for your health. And it only causes addiction if it's consumed with regularity. Millions of Christians drink a beer or a glass of wine from time to time and it doesn't cause them any harm, rather the opposite.

 

Nicotine, on the other hand, has no beneficial effects at all. It only causes harm. Since it has no nutritional value and no positive effects on your health, the only reason to consume nicotine is as a recreational drug, because one is addicted to it and their body asks for it.

[MzT]

You may not find a direct answer to this question. But what bible principles could be used to answer this question?

The question that comes to my mind is, we understand why cigarette/cigar smoking is unacceptable to Jehovah, but is it ok to IMITATE that behavior using a "substitute" simply because it doesn't contain nicotine or a drug?

Answering that question should help you determine the bible principles surrounding the issue. It really doesn't matter if vaping was with water or other chemicals when you consider it from that perspective.

[carlos]

Agreed. My post was just a humorous rhetoric, or so I hoped...

 

Richard, it was clear it was a joke. I was not addressing you actually. I should have quoted the sister's comment, but I quoted yours instead for some unknown reason.