Songbook: "Sing Out Joyfully" to Jehovah

[Thesauron]

____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Hope]

[nanceebgd46]

Those above lyrics are so sterile....they just don't touch ones heart...just like many, many songs in our

current songbook...some are O.K....still, many more don't rouse  any emotion....the lyrics are so

dry and pedestrian.  I don't know why this is transpiring....but....it seems to be going from bad to worse.

 

For myself, I'd rather we'd go back to,,,"Singing and Accompanying yourselves with music in your Heart."

I can remember being at conventions...with thousands and thousands of people singing...and we almost

tore the roof off...I haven't heard that level of enthusiasm  since we started using our current songbook.

 

This is just my opinion...but, I feel a real loss when it comes to our music/singing  as part of our

worship...there just isn't much ...there....there anymore!

 

 

[Thesauron]

Those above lyrics are so sterile....they just don't touch ones heart...just like many, many songs in our
current songbook...some are O.K....still, many more don't rouse  any emotion....the lyrics are so
dry and pedestrian.  I don't know why this is transpiring....but....it seems to be going from bad to worse.
 
For myself, I'd rather we'd go back to,,,"Singing and Accompanying yourselves with music in your Heart."
I can remember being at conventions...with thousands and thousands of people singing...and we almost
tore the roof off...I haven't heard that level of enthusiasm  since we started using our current songbook.
 
This is just my opinion...but, I feel a real loss when it comes to our music/singing  as part of our
worship...there just isn't much ...there....there anymore!
 
 

I love them. They are simple and beautiful. They put the meaning of Psalm 23 in a modern and lovely dress. I'm sure they will touch the hearts of a lot of people are they are translated as well. I sang this song with some friends this evening after the family study, and it was fantastic.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Sepie93]

Honestly I don't really understand the big issue with the new songbook.
OK, I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm from the Netherlands and believe me, all songs translated from English to Dutch, are so much better in English. Especially the "younger generation" feel so much more emotion with the English lyrics than the Dutch ones.

.....BUT!!!!....

Because we are used to this, (it's not only with songs of worship, but also with all other songs) we are still so happy with songs translated into Dutch. Why? Because we realize it's a provision from Jehovah not only for us, but for so many more brothers and sisters.

So, true, sometimes we feel like: "aaah... the English ones are so much better", but the joy and enthusiasm from the idea that THESE songs are now a full part of our worship to Jehovah, makes this whole "sad" feeling so small..

Please, don't get me wrong, I don't want to blame anyone for something, I understand the feeling. But try to focus on what we REALLY have, what these songs REALLY are:

The current songs of praise for our Great God Jehovah!

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G903F met Tapatalk

[Hope]

Perhaps this is a bit of the feeling of why it's important to preach to people in the language of their hearts?  There are turns of phrase in every language that have strong meaning to those who speak that language.  When it's translated out to fit *everyone*, that certain "something" may end up a bit lost in the translation, perhaps.

 

When English speakers were the main consideration, the lyrics were most touching to them.  Accommodating every other language (which is a wonderful, awe-inspiring thing, please don't get me wrong) may somehow dilute the emotional quality - if that makes any sense.  Music is completely emotional to me - I either like it and am moved by it or I'm not.  Yes, we can all get used to anything... but the lyrical changes I've seen so far have definitely reduced the emotional "ummph" I felt for those songs.

 

And as a person who doesn't indulge emotions very much, it's rather sad for me.  I don't get to"feel" the songs, either...  

 

But, again --- I'll learn and sing them all with the honor they deserve for being praises of worship to my Father.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Hope

[Friends just call me Ross]

3 hours ago, Hope said:

Perhaps this is a bit of the feeling of why it's important to preach to people in the language of their hearts?  There are turns of phrase in every language that have strong meaning to those who speak that language.  When it's translated out to fit *everyone*, that certain "something" may end up a bit lost in the translation, perhaps.

 

When English speakers were the main consideration, the lyrics were most touching to them.  Accommodating every other language (which is a wonderful, awe-inspiring thing, please don't get me wrong) may somehow dilute the emotional quality - if that makes any sense.  Music is completely emotional to me - I either like it and am moved by it or I'm not.  Yes, we can all get used to anything... but the lyrical changes I've seen so far have definitely reduced the emotional "ummph" I felt for those songs.

 

And as a person who doesn't indulge emotions very much, it's rather sad for me.  I don't get to"feel" the songs, either...  

 

But, again --- I'll learn and sing them all with the honor they deserve for being praises of worship to my Father.

 

Most excellent explanation!!!

[Thesauron]

Perhaps this is a bit of the feeling of why it's important to preach to people in the language of their hearts?  There are turns of phrase in every language that have strong meaning to those who speak that language.  When it's translated out to fit *everyone*, that certain "something" may end up a bit lost in the translation, perhaps.
 
When English speakers were the main consideration, the lyrics were most touching to them.  Accommodating every other language (which is a wonderful, awe-inspiring thing, please don't get me wrong) may somehow dilute the emotional quality - if that makes any sense.  Music is completely emotional to me - I either like it and am moved by it or I'm not.  Yes, we can all get used to anything... but the lyrical changes I've seen so far have definitely reduced the emotional "ummph" I felt for those songs.
 
And as a person who doesn't indulge emotions very much, it's rather sad for me.  I don't get to"feel" the songs, either...  
 
But, again --- I'll learn and sing them all with the honor they deserve for being praises of worship to my Father.

You'll get to 'feel' the songs. I believe it has more to do with attaching experiences to the words and music than the odd 'doth' and 'thee', and some day, these lyrical changes you don't understand right now might be your favourites because they have been changed to fit a new situation in the brotherhood. We should be grateful that Jehovah does not let things stand still just because we are emotionally attached to something - something the Brooklyn Bethel family, for instance, had to learn when they received the news that they were moving out of their beloved city.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Thesauron]

Honestly I don't really understand the big issue with the new songbook.
OK, I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm from the Netherlands and believe me, all songs translated from English to Dutch, are so much better in English. Especially the "younger generation" feel so much more emotion with the English lyrics than the Dutch ones.

.....BUT!!!!....

Because we are used to this, (it's not only with songs of worship, but also with all other songs) we are still so happy with songs translated into Dutch. Why? Because we realize it's a provision from Jehovah not only for us, but for so many more brothers and sisters.

So, true, sometimes we feel like: "aaah... the English ones are so much better", but the joy and enthusiasm from the idea that THESE songs are now a full part of our worship to Jehovah, makes this whole "sad" feeling so small..

Please, don't get me wrong, I don't want to blame anyone for something, I understand the feeling. But try to focus on what we REALLY have, what these songs REALLY are:

The current songs of praise for our Great God Jehovah!

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G903F met Tapatalk

I know kids used to listening to English pop might feel like this. I tend to like the translations as well, perhaps because I know the hard work and love that go in to them by the translators.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Thesauron]

Song 91 (126) has not changed.
Song 92 (127) has not changed.
Song 93 (20) has slightly adjusted lyrics.
Song 94 (113) has adjusted lyrics. Example:

Your Word has the power to reach deep inside.
Our thoughts and intentions, it helps to divide.

[Hope]

1 hour ago, Thesauron said:

You'll get to 'feel' the songs. I believe it has more to do with attaching experiences to the words and music than the odd 'doth' and 'thee', and some day, these lyrical changes you don't understand right now might be your favourites because they have been changed to fit a new situation in the brotherhood. We should be grateful that Jehovah does not let things stand still just because we are emotionally attached to something - something the Brooklyn Bethel family, for instance, had to learn when they received the news that they were moving out of their beloved city.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

I'm honestly not missing "doth" and "thee"- I never have.

 

I miss the Scriptures, the prayers, set to music as written.  I'm not so keen on the paraphrasing.

[walkr2]

There is one thing we can be sure of friends, Our Father in the Heavens, must have a good purpose for the change!  The Organization is changing every day to keep up with our moving forward to the end of this system of things. Perhaps, these songs might be what we'll  use as we transition on into what we've all been waiting for, - God's  Kingdom has finally been realized upon the earth! 

 

Voni in NC

[Life4u]

11 minutes ago, walkr2 said:

There is one thing we can be sure of friends, Our Father in the Heavens, must have a good purpose for the change!  The Organization is changing every day to keep up with our moving forward to the end of this system of things. Perhaps, these songs might be what we'll  use as we transition on into what we've all been waiting for, - God's  Kingdom has finally been realized upon the earth! 

 

Voni in NC

I agree Sister.  I see some songs as those we'll be singing while going through these last days on onto the new world.  Who knows, except Jehovah! 

[Thesauron]

I'm honestly not missing "doth" and "thee"- I never have.
 
I miss the Scriptures, the prayers, set to music as written.  I'm not so keen on the paraphrasing.

I know. It was good back when, but right now the need might be a bit different. In the future we might have a song that's basically a quote from the Scriptures again. Although, you have to remember that it's much harder to translate, and translations of his song in particular never were anything but paraphrasing. It worked fine though, and a lot of people loved those lyrics anyway. Did you know the Society made at least one attempt to translate Bible texts in a paraphrased version directed at children 12 and under? We'll see what comes of that in the future.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Thesauron]

There is one thing we can be sure of friends, Our Father in the Heavens, must have a good purpose for the change!  The Organization is changing every day to keep up with our moving forward to the end of this system of things. Perhaps, these songs might be what we'll  use as we transition on into what we've all been waiting for, - God's  Kingdom has finally been realized upon the earth! 
 
Voni in NC

Who knows? Wouldn't it be good if this was the last songbook this side of Armageddon?


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Alexa]

I know. It was good back when, but right now the need might be a bit different. In the future we might have a song that's basically a quote from the Scriptures again. Although, you have to remember that it's much harder to translate, and translations of his song in particular never were anything but paraphrasing. It worked fine though, and a lot of people loved those lyrics anyway. Did you know the Society made at least one attempt to translate Bible texts in a paraphrased version directed at children 12 and under? We'll see what comes of that in the future.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

How do you know brother Johan?

[Thesauron]

How do you know brother Johan?

How do I know what?


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Alexa]

How do I know what?


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

The society's plan brother Johan?

[And_Ray]

I see everyone here talking about the new songs as being changed to make it easier for translation. If that's the case, what's up with the song "You did it for me"?
Yeah, I guess that's the easiest one for translating.

So it appears that translation is not the reason for changing the lyrics.
We're just gonna have to swallow, and deal with the change.

Sent from my LG-H440n using Tapatalk

[Thesauron]

The society's plan brother Johan?

Oh, I don't know. I just saw a test translation some years ago.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Thesauron]

I see everyone here talking about the new songs as being changed to make it easier for translation. If that's the case, what's up with the song "You did it for me"?
Yeah, I guess that's the easiest one for translating.

So it appears that translation is not the reason for changing the lyrics.
We're just gonna have to swallow, and deal with the change.

Sent from my LG-H440n using Tapatalk

Translation is a big part of many of the changes. They have sometimes come about because of direct questions from the teams. What about "You Did It For Me"? The translation of that one is pretty straight forward in a lot of languages.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Thesauron]

Song 95 (116) has not changed.
Song 96 (114) has some slight changes to the lyrics:

The time has come with reason for rejoicing:
Jehovah rules by his anointed King.
So now we preach the good news of the Kingdom
And share the hope of blessings it will bring.

Song 97 (115) now has a completely new theme, new lyrics and a new title.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[And_Ray]

What about "You Did It For Me"? The translation of that one is pretty straight forward in a lot of languages.
____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

Yeah it is. Straight from the Bible into the songbook right?
Except for the fact that the length of each of those expressions translated on Macedonian, and other languages for sure, is at least 2 times the length, or more.
Macedonian equivalent of "you did it to me" (12 letters) is 20 letters. So go ahead and fit that in the same melody.

Sent from my LG-H440n using Tapatalk

[And_Ray]

What about "You Did It For Me"? The translation of that one is pretty straight forward in a lot of languages.
____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

Yeah it is. Straight from the Bible into the songbook right?
Except for the fact that the length of each of those expressions translated on Macedonian, and other languages for sure, is at least 2 times the length, or more.
Macedonian equivalent of "you did it to me" (12 letters) is 20 letters. So go ahead and fit that in the same melody.

Sent from my LG-H440n using Tapatalk

[Thesauron]

Yeah it is. Straight from the Bible into the songbook right?
Except for the fact that the length of each of those expressions translated on Macedonian, and other languages for sure, is at least 2 times the length, or more.
Macedonian equivalent of "you did it to me" (12 letters) is 20 letters. So go ahead and fit that in the same melody.

Sent from my LG-H440n using Tapatalk

Yes, the five words "You Did It For Me" is a direct quote. In Swedish it becomes "Ni gjorde det för mig" which is a bit longer, so those words are retained like that in the title only. The third phrase in the chorus, and the last phrases are "Det ni gjorde för dem, ni gjorde för mig". which literally translates into "What (or, that) you did for them, you did for me", which conveys the same thought while fitting the music. Not only do you need to fit the syllables, but also the melody of the language.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.