DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[Lance]

Just photoshop that out ... I can help you with that 

[ReadYourBible]

I would like to know what all the stamps are.... there's another in the back.

[Lance]

Tracking devices ... ;)

[campanula]

5 minutes ago, cerebral ecstasy said:

It was my sincerest honor to write on you and all my brothers and sisters behalf.  I wrote it with tears, I sent it with tears and when the decision came down I was hopping mad.  

 Thanks, my dear!

We are all sisters here are crying a lot these days.... Our Kingdom Hall that we built with such a love is now left empty and uncared.....

[ReadYourBible]

8 minutes ago, campanula said:

 Thanks, my dear!

We are all sisters here are crying a lot these days.... Our Kingdom Hall that we built with such a love is now left empty and uncared.....

I can't even bring myself to like this :'(

[campanula]

3 minutes ago, cerebral ecstasy said:

I can't even bring myself to like this :'(

I would like to come there somehow just to water plants on the lot.... Buy there is no way to come....

[ReadYourBible]

I understand this, I often love doing the outside weeding and plant care.  It would be upsetting to watch it die due to neglect.

Edited May 7, 2017 by cerebral ecstasy

[Victoria]

12 hours ago, Old said:

If gay nen are a minority, what are child molesters? Are they are a minority also? Gay rights, pedafile rights, trans rights, how about pornea rights. It is all one and the same, they are only a minority of a perverted society. Gay men brave? good-o for them. They are all a degenrate part of this system that will and must go down.

Goverments are decidedly two faced on these issues, but do they deserve our sympathetic comments? "They must be brave"? maybe someone will make a really good movie about them. 

I am not a homophobic, we have a grandson that has taken that positon despite being raised in the truth. I have a cousin that is outstandingly gay. We have another of that persuasion that is married to a sister we have known for years, he is welcome in our house when he accompanies her, (my wife doesn't know and I don't discuss it with her) but brave? I don't think so. A minority? so are drug addicts.

We are not standing side by side with a gay "minority". Totally different concept.

I will try to explain what I meant. I am sorry it's really hard for me to express my thoughts in English. I don't admire:" oh, they are so brave!". I said it because Chechnya is a muslim part of Russia.( Chechen people are muslims). If a man chooses to be a gay he knows well he will be beaten, tortured and killed. So I hope there are no any gay men there. But if they live there( they could move to another part of Russia where there are no muslims), don't you agree they are brave?

You know, I have never met a gay man or woman in my life. They are really a minority here. And I think it's a bit better to be a JW than a gay in Russia. I am afraid after Angela Merkel's words Russian people will hate JWs even more.

[Thesauron]

I will try to explain what I meant. I am sorry it's really hard for me to express my thoughts in English. I don't admire:" oh, they are so brave!". I said it because Chechnya is a muslim part of Russia.( Chechen people are muslims). If a man chooses to be a gay he knows well he will be beaten, tortured and killed. So I hope there are no any gay men there. But if they live there( they could move to another part of Russia where there are no muslims), don't you agree they are brave?

You know, I have never met a gay man or woman in my life. They are really a minority here. And I think it's a bit better to be a JW than a gay in Russia. I am afraid after Angela Merkel's words Russian people will hate JWs even more.

Nobody chooses to be gay, just like you never choose to be straight. Instead, many people struggling with these feelings feel that they would lay them off in an instant if they could. Many of them consider suicide. I think you have met gay people, just not people who dare to talk to anybody about their feelings. It could be your own son or daughter, or even your parents.

 

Any minority should not be persecuted because of who they are. This includes us, this includes gay people. Extrajudicial actions, such as beatings, public shaming, torture etc., is never justified. It is also not justified to stage a court and make a mockery out of justice. You have a right to your own thoughts and you have the right to share these thoughts and beliefs with others. The government should protect these rights. Right now Russia is failing to do so.

 

 

Johan

[Victoria]

7 hours ago, Thesauron said:

Nobody chooses to be gay, just like you never choose to be straight. Instead, many people struggling with these feelings feel that they would lay them off in an instant if they could. Many of them consider suicide. I think you have met gay people, just not people who dare to talk to anybody about their feelings. It could be your own son or daughter, or even your parents.

 

Any minority should not be persecuted because of who they are. This includes us, this includes gay people. Extrajudicial actions, such as beatings, public shaming, torture etc., is never justified. It is also not justified to stage a court and make a mockery out of justice. You have a right to your own thoughts and you have the right to share these thoughts and beliefs with others. The government should protect these rights. Right now Russia is failing to do so.

 

 

Johan

Feeling is one thing, but action is another. I did not choose to be straight but  I chose to control bad desires as all JWs chose to do. Everybody has some bad thoughts and desires but we all choose what to do.To my mind being  gay men means having sex with men, not feelings towards men.

[Thesauron]

Feeling is one thing, but action is another. I did not choose to be straight but  I chose to control bad desires as all JWs chose to do. Everybody has some bad thoughts and desires but we all choose what to do.To my mind being  gay men means having sex with men, not feelings towards men.

That's a different thing. These people are persecuted because of rumours sometimes, or if they talk about their feelings. What they do matters very little. Many brothers and sisters are gay from birth, and would be subjected to bad treatment from these idiots. However, they do not have sexual relations. Sex is something for within marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman. I know a sister who is lesbian who would love a relationship but has to stay single. She has done that for many years now and remains a faithful member of the congregation.


Johan

[dove]

7 hours ago, cerebral ecstasy said:

I have proof mine was delivered in Russia, I have someone's Russian signature LOL.  Russian stamps all over it, received on April 7.  My husband passed it to me 2 days ago and said.... youre going to want to frame this.  You got a signature response from Russia!

 

I don't understand why you received an answer from Russia to your letter?

[ReadYourBible]

My husband made an insightful comment as to why he thought in the outset that we were being targeted in Russia in particular.  We know it's Satan, however he commented that by banning us is the surest way to be able to ban other religions who claim to be peaceful.  They know us, they know we are NOT extremists, nor are there any sects of ours which are.  They know we wont be bombing anyone. Yet, by imposing these bans they can say....here is oh law,   and now they can freely oppose and target Muslims as well. Which he believes was their whole intent anyhow.

 

Additionally, he said that dilution of religion in a country can lead to a dilution in identity.  When we think of the Russian people, their culture includes their religion of he Orthodox church.  By crushing smaller sects Russia maintains her rich history of who they are as a people.

 

He says this isn't even about us, but about all these things that Russians take pride in.  I agree with him.

 

[ReadYourBible]

Dove, because I asked for one.  We were asked to send letters, but we were allowed to send them any way we liked.  I chose to send mine by courier because I am a government worker in my country and their structure of government is similar.  The Ministry of Justice here would be required to acknowledge the receipt of such mail if the individual asks for it.  They couldn't just trash it and not acknowledge.  It would have to be looked at and signed for by someone.  Additionally, because of how it was sent they may have  to keep it in a pile to be read by its intended recipient.  

[dove]

10 minutes ago, cerebral ecstasy said:

Dove, because I asked for one.  We were asked to send letters, but we were allowed to send them any way we liked.  I chose to send mine by courier because I am a government worker in my country and their structure of government is similar.  The Ministry of Justice here would be required to acknowledge the receipt of such mail if the individual asks for it.  They couldn't just trash it and not acknowledge.  It would have to be looked at and signed for by someone.  Additionally, because of how it was sent they may have  to keep it in a pile to be read by its intended recipient.  

Thank you for explaining why we all shouldn't expect an answer . It's surprising after showing utter disregard for other laws in this whole trial why they would feel bound to honor this acknowledgment to one they just banned. But I'm glad they did and you have that for posterity 

[Alexa]

1 hour ago, cerebral ecstasy said:

Dove, because I asked for one.  We were asked to send letters, but we were allowed to send them any way we liked.  I chose to send mine by courier because I am a government worker in my country and their structure of government is similar.  The Ministry of Justice here would be required to acknowledge the receipt of such mail if the individual asks for it.  They couldn't just trash it and not acknowledge.  It would have to be looked at and signed for by someone.  Additionally, because of how it was sent they may have  to keep it in a pile to be read by its intended recipient.  

Thank you for being brave sis Sharon in letting our words known and extended through public officials  

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, Thesauron said:

That's a different thing. These people are persecuted because of rumours sometimes, or if they talk about their feelings. What they do matters very little. Many brothers and sisters are gay from birth, and would be subjected to bad treatment from these idiots. However, they do not have sexual relations. Sex is something for within marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman. I know a sister who is lesbian who would love a relationship but has to stay single. She has done that for many years now and remains a faithful member of the congregation.
 

"With any gays among us, it’s like swimming when swept out by the tide. They don’t try to swim against it, exerting all their might to will themselves straight; that’s a great recipe for failure – human sexuality doesn’t work that way. They don’t try to swim with the tide, abandoning themselves as slaves to their feelings. Instead, they swim parallel to it, likely for a long time, in hopes their feelings will eventually modify, allowing them to reach shore. Who else faces a comparable battle? It doesn’t seem quite fair, does it? One might argue that their faith in God is deeper than that of most, since they stay loyal to his arrangements despite the very real testimony of their own bodies. I have zero respect for frothing church types who rail against gays when they themselves have never been called upon to raise their little finger in comparable struggles."

[hatcheckgirl]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Who else faces a comparable battle?

Nothing really compares with their situation exactly. But refraining from engaging in sexual immorality between heterosexuals is also similar, because many of us are not in a position to fulfill our sexual desires within marriage. We wait until we can properly do this, which may not be until the new system. As examples, quadriplegics brothers and sisters, separated without scriptural divorce, single brothers and sisters waiting to find a mate within Jehovah's people.  All in these positions, and including gays, have sexual desires but they  just can't give vent to them. So we all wait and stay faithful to Jehovah's requirements.

[carlos]

Please, let's not deviate this public discussion about our brothers in Russia. Lots of visitors read this topic trying to find the latest news about the Russian trial and the appeal.

 

Jehovah's Witnesses uphold the Bible view that Jehovah disapproves homosexual relations. At the same time we are respectful to everybody and, of course, we don't approve of any acts of violence against homosexuals or any other collective. If some member really wishes to discuss this further, please start a new thread.

Edited May 7, 2017 by carlos

[Alexa]

Thank you brother Carlos

I hope visitors can wait until June 13  

[vern]

public opinion certainly is being worked on so that when they turn on religion not many will feel surprised.....

[Doug]

Saw a story on FB today , seems an unfriendly threw a Molotov cocktail into the home of a Witness family. Nothing said about injuries, but two houses destroyed.

Perhaps one of you with the know-how can post it.

https://jw-russia.org/news/17050817-158.html

[Old]

8 minutes ago, Doug said:

Saw a story on FB today , seems an unfriendly threw a Molotov cocktail into the home of a Witness family. Nothing said about injuries, but two houses destroyed.

Perhaps one of you with the know-how can post it.

https://jw-russia.org/news/17050817-158.html

JW Brothers

7 hrs · 

In Moscow suburbs, the arson of the house where Jehovah's Witnesses lived was committed
On April 30, 2017, another act of vandalism was committed against followers of the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. In with. Lutsino (Moscow region), one of the locals who previously had a negative attitude against this religion, in a state of intoxication, threw a Molotov cocktail into the house where the family of Jehovah's Witnesses lived. The resulting fire destroyed two houses and cars of believers.
The culprit of arson was detained hot on the trail
https://jw-russia.org/news/17050817-158.html

 

[nanceebgd46]

I've been holding my breath that things like this wouldn't start happening but, oh well, we're somewhat

powerless to stop hate obsessed people...especially ones where liquor is added into the mix.  It's more than sad, what many are capable of.  It's Such a dastardly deed to set a house on fire...in the middle of the night...when the family is

most likely asleep!

 

[dove]

A while back I posted a letter written by a CO visiting Cameroon . Before I posted it, I asked for and received permission to do so, but I probably should have made it known then that I  verified it's authenticity with the author, so I'm re-posting it with that information: Sorry. Sometimes I'm confused whether to reveal people's names and sources or to protect them. Not sure where that line is. But as I said, I did write and ask their permission to share this  experience:

 

["Mark-André and Ruth Hamelin  wrote:
I personally know Doug and Natalie Dunsire....He was a CO in Quebec, he gave Priscilla's wedding talk and they are now in Cameroon.  He was in a broadcasting (May 2015?) about the construction  in Cameroon."]

 

Hi from Cameroon,

All of us around the world have been busy writing letters this week for our dear brothers in Russia. Here is what happened here in Cameroon.
Last Wed evening we received instructions to visit the Russian Embassy and the Ministry of Exterior Affairs, if possible that same week. A local brother and I left Douala Thursday morning for the capital, Yaoundé, a 6 hours drive. We arrived at the Russian Embassy at 3 pm. The ambassador was out of town, but they let us in and we met with 2 Russian representatives, named Moussa and Gary. When we explained the plight of our brothers in Russia, Gary said: “You are not banned in Russia. I have relatives in Russia who are Jehovah’s Witnesses, I know you well.” We showed him the decree from the Ministry of Justice. Gary was clearly disturbed. We asked him: “Are your uncle and aunt extremists?” He said: “Not at all, Jehovah’s Witness are non-violent pacifists.” He promised to pass on our information to the ambassador. Gary said: “I am going to call my uncle and aunt today to tell them Jehovah’s Witnesses came to see me in Cameroon.” We answered: “Please comfort them, because they are under a lot of stress right now.” We felt Jehovah guided us towards the right person in the embassy to understand our concerns and pass on accurate information to his superiors.

After this we visited the ministry of Foreign Affairs. Getting a hearing with a minister in Cameroon without an appointment and without going through the formal procedure is unheard of. However, 3 brothers who work at the ministry opened the way for us. There are 3 ministers and only one was in the country that day. The brothers spoke to the secretary and explained it was a very important, urgent matter, and that this is why we did not go through the regular procedure. We were directed to state our case to an attaché. He in turn went to speak to the minister. By now it was 5:30 pm. A few minutes later the minister received us in his formal meeting room and listened with deep concern. He said: “Since Russia is a friend of Cameroon, we are not in a position to lodge a formal complaint in your behalf. However, when the case is brought before the UN commission, I can assure you that Cameroon will strongly denounce what Russia is doing to you. Also, I promise that I will convey the information you shared with me to the president of our country who is a defender of freedom of religion.” He then asked the attaché to stop taking notes and added: “Off the record, what you just explained to me disturbs me greatly! I know Jehovah’s Witnesses. I have read your literature. I know you are a peaceful religion.” We felt that here again Jehovah had directed us to the right person.

In Cameroon, to send a letter to Russia it cost $1.20 (a day's salary for many), and it takes about a month to get there. To get it their in a week, it cost $60 by express mail. We were therefore directed by the GB to send the letters to the Russian embassy here in Yaoundé, which cost around 20 cents. We sent a letter to the brothers explaining this, but also gave them the addresses for Russia, just in case. Most of the brothers have never sent a letter in their life. The postal system here is sloe, and almost no one has addresses, so it is not used by most. We were worried that the letters from Douala, where most of the publishers live, would not even get to Yaoundé on time, since it can take a week to "faire le tri" (sort) at the post office. Well, most of the brothers did not understand the local instructions to send letters to the embassy, and they ended up putting Russian addresses on their envelopes, as directed by the jw.org instruction, but only put $1.20 postage, and often only 20 cents postage, and not the $60 postage needed to get the mail to Russia on time.

Surprise! An older local brother here is a retired post office worker. When he heard about the campaign he went to the post office...and took over. He ordered all the young post office workers to take all of our letters and put them with the diplomatic mail going to Russia. They were all trained by him and call him Papa. The letters were all sent Tues and should be in Russia by this weekend! It looks like thousands of letters from Cameroon are going to make it to Russia to add to this great international witness. And our older brother is having the time of his life, he said that "this it the most exciting time I have had in my whole career at the post office!

It is nice to see how Jehovah is blessing this letter writing campaign all over the world. Satan is blaspheming Jehovah's name by associating it with extremism. We pray that His name be sanctified and his will be done. We are looking forward to see how Jehovah turns things around for our dear brothers in Russia.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Dove