DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[Gi-Gi]

It would be awesome if we could just hear the tones of voices

Edited April 7, 2017 by Gi-Gi

[Bluebell]

12.43   Toporov wondered why the overwhelming majority, more than 380 MROs of Russia, who never received any claims from the state, should be eliminated, even without any warning and the opportunity to change something? In the case there are hundreds and hundreds of results of inspections of various departments, which did not reveal any violations in the activities of all these LROs. 22 Crimean MPO, registered under Russian law and not having committed any violations, are perplexed, for what they should be recognized as extremist, and their property confiscated? Why is the Moscow MRO, registered under the order of the ECHR and not having committed a single offense, should be subjected to such severe sanctions?

[Gi-Gi]

Satan is beyond beside himself...Since President Trump issued missle attack  on Russian occupied Syria, Russia says they will no longer honor airspace  rules over that country....  Getting heated up all the while Trump chats it up with the leader of China the second world power at his home in Florida.  All super suspicious.  Boom Boom Boom...one thing after another.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Gi-Gi

[Stormswift]

there's a gap between entries of 12:22 and the last one of 12.43 is there some missing?

[jayrtom]

2 minutes ago, Stormswift said:

there's a gap between entries of 12:22 and the last one of 12.43 is there some missing?

Go back one page. It's there

[Bluebell]

15 minutes ago, Samira said:

12.37     Toporov explains that centralized and local organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses are not responsible for each other's obligations. The Center is not the founder of any of the LROs. Each of them has its own membership of founders of 10 or more citizens. Each LRO has its own unique name, its own charter, detached property, the right to enter into civil-law contracts. Referring to the judge, Toporov cites an analogy: the entire judicial system of Russia is a single structure, but the regional courts are not structural subdivisions of the Supreme Court, but are independent institutions.

 

 

clever explanation...

 

here is it....

[Bluebell]

it's like a 3 day convention......or more like a drama

Edited April 7, 2017 by Samira

[New World Explorer]

6 minutes ago, Stormswift said:

there's a gap between entries of 12:22 and the last one of 12.43 is there some missing?

Yep.. this is when Jehovah's angel showed up saying ..OK grasshoppers I am taking over court proceedings ... LOL

[sunshine]

SIMPLIFIED DIALOGUE (if anyone is interested)

 

10"00 Judge wants to know more about an incident in 2014:  You (Ministry of Justice = MoJ) accuse the Jehovah's Witnesses tried to illegally import books in 2014 - but the books were not banned at the time so what's the problem with what the JWs did?

 

The Judge wants to know why you want to criminalize the congretations, just like the Headquarters?

 

MoJ (their lawyer) says because they READ these extremist books.

 

Judge asks how this the connection between the Russian HQ of JW and the congegations can be proven legally.  And if all 395 are legally part of the accused in this  case why do you not when all 395 to speak in this case?

 

Judge wants to know if the MoJ can prove that the HQ Bethel of Russia was financing extremist actions.

 

MoJ Wants to point to all the (fake) cases "proved" in the past.

 

Brothers Object!

 

10"35 Our brothers ask:  If we're so dangerous why can't you prove a single time that we did something dangerous?  If we were "safe" before prove when we became "dangerous"!  You have compared us with terrorist like the Taliban when we are "pacifists".  We have done all we can to prevent any "extremism".

[Stormswift]

10 minutes ago, Samira said:

here is it....

Awesome thanks x

[Bluebell]

Sister Rosie....love your simplified version.....thanks so much...

[iambryan]

SIMPLIFIED DIALOGUE (if anyone is interested)
 
10"00 Judge wants to know more about an incident in 2014:  You (Ministry of Justice = MoJ) accuse the Jehovah's Witnesses tried to illegally import books in 2014 - but the books were not banned at the time so what's the problem with what the JWs did?
 
The Judge wants to know why you want to criminalize the congretations, just like the Headquarters?
 
MoJ (their lawyer) says because they READ these extremist books.
 
Judge asks how this the connection between the Russian HQ of JW and the congegations can be proven legally.  And if all 395 are legally part of the accused in this  case why do you not when all 395 to speak in this case?
 
Judge wants to know if the MoJ can prove that the HQ Bethel of Russia was financing extremist actions.
 
MoJ Wants to point to all the (fake) cases "proved" in the past.
 
Brothers Object!
 
10"35 Our brothers ask:  If we're so dangerous why can't you prove a single time that we did something dangerous?  If we were "safe" before prove when we became "dangerous"!  You have compared us with terrorist like the Taliban when we are "pacifists".  We have done all we can to prevent any "extremism".

Thanks for simplified edition

Sent from my Alcatel_7049D using Tapatalk

[New World Explorer]

6 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Our brothers ask:  If we're so dangerous why can't you prove a single time that we did something dangerous?  If we were "safe" before prove when we became "dangerous"!  You have compared us with terrorist like the Taliban when we are "pacifists".  We have done all we can to prevent any "extremism".

Wow..wow..wow...

[Bluebell]

12:52    Statement by the representative of Maxim Novakov. His speech is devoted to the analysis of the so-called "new facts of extremist activity", to which the Ministry of Justice refers in its suit. We are talking about fines imposed on several MPOs because of the discovery of extremist materials in the liturgical buildings.
13:06    The management center was not involved in business, so it did not have an effective opportunity to raise the issue of provocations. Meanwhile, no evidence for the court can have established strength. Judicial orders for imposition of fines can not have prejudicial force. Otherwise, this would be a violation of the right to a fair trial. Decisions referenced by the court are beautiful closed "boxes", but the content of these "boxes" is not so intuitive. To have a holistic picture and give an objective assessment, the court must assess the circumstances of what happened. The riot police rush into the services, throw all the men to the floor, they were not allowed to even raise their heads, while unknown men move uncontrollably through the building. The cameras recorded how the OMON stormed a liturgical building and police officers tossed forbidden materials into the cabinet, and then they were "discovered."

[GeordieGirl]

13:12 Novakov tells an interesting detail, recently discovered in the materials of the case. It turned out that one of the lobed publications is the inscription indicating that this publication belongs to one of the centers of Orthodox anti-sectarian!

Edited April 7, 2017 by GeordieGirl

[sunshine]

Simplified dialogue (For anyone interested)  ....

 

10"45 Brother Cherepanove speaks. He explains he was a victim of religious persecution in Russia under communism which he can prove with a certificate.   We were peaceful then and nothing has changed.  So, what does the MoJ want him and other Witnesses to give them to prove we are not extremist?!  Brother Cherepanov explains what the Bethel HQ in Russia has done to prevent any extremist actions.  He explains that Jehovah's Witnesses have been taken to court many times but most of the cases were in our favor because they had done nothing wrong.  Br Cherepaneov points to the evidence the authorities planeted banned books in our halls.

 

11"00  Brother Cherepanov continues that the Bethel did all the authorities asked and STILL got a notice that we refused to do what they said which is absolutely false.  Brother Cherepanov continues that Jehovah's Witnesses are recognized throughout the world as peaceful, if you ban us here you send a message to the entire world that they are wrong and tolerating "extremists".

 

This ends Brother Cherepanov's speech.

[Friends just call me Ross]

9 minutes ago, Samira said:

12:52    Statement by the representative of Maxim Novakov. His speech is devoted to the analysis of the so-called "new facts of extremist activity", to which the Ministry of Justice refers in its suit. We are talking about fines imposed on several MPOs because of the discovery of extremist materials in the liturgical buildings.
13:06    The management center was not involved in business, so it did not have an effective opportunity to raise the issue of provocations. Meanwhile, no evidence for the court can have established strength. Judicial orders for imposition of fines can not have prejudicial force. Otherwise, this would be a violation of the right to a fair trial. Decisions referenced by the court are beautiful closed "boxes", but the content of these "boxes" is not so intuitive. To have a holistic picture and give an objective assessment, the court must assess the circumstances of what happened. The riot police rush into the services, throw all the men to the floor, they were not allowed to even raise their heads, while unknown men move uncontrollably through the building. The cameras recorded how the OMON stormed a liturgical building and police officers tossed forbidden materials into the cabinet, and then they were "discovered."

I feared this would never be heard in court, after all our requests to be heard that first day of the trial were denied.  Truly, the unexpected we were told to expect, is occurring.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Friends just call me Ross

[Hartley]

There are some brilliant legal arguments being given, just as Stephen gave just before he was stoned. Stephen did not lose his court case, it was referred the to universal supreme court and now he is watching on and the judges are long since dead.

The Russian legal system may still rule against our brothers in the face of even the best legal argument. We look to Jehovah to maneuver events to produce to ultimate good.

[Gi-Gi]

2 minutes ago, sunshine said:

11"00  Brother Cherepanov continues that the Bethel did all the authorities asked and STILL got a notice that we refused to do what they said which is absolutely false us here you send a message to the entire world that they are wrong and tolerating "extremists".

 

This ends Brother Cherepanov's speech.

Touché 

[UpstateKate]

Good morning from upstate NY. I'm thrilled to wake up and see the trial is going so well. Praying we hear good news today! Either way the trial decision goes, what a large shout of praise for our God, Jehovah. Our brothers have made our innocence clear as day for all the world to see.

Edited April 7, 2017 by UpstateKate
Punctuation

[GeordieGirl]

And satan appears to be a little annoyed about it all, maneuvering one of his major puppets to perform an act of aggression on another one, trying to take the focus of God's people. 

[Friends just call me Ross]

6 minutes ago, UpstateKate said:

 Our brothers have made our innocence clear as day for all the world to see.

 

Yup!  They did Jehovah, and our entire WORLDwide Brotherhood, proud.

We truly are blessed with 'gifts in men'.

[Skye]

14 minutes ago, Friends just call me Ross said:

I feared this would never be heard in court, after all our requests to be heard that first day of the trial were denied.  Truly, the unexpected we were told to expect, is occurring.

 

 

Goosebumps, Rosanne! Goosebumps!!

[And_Ray]

Anton Chivchalov on Twitter posted that the hearing will continue on April 12th. Any confirmation?

[Gi-Gi]