DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[Bluebell]

10:35   The court examines the document "The Fundamentals of the Doctrine and the Practice of Jehovah's Witnesses." Lawyers pay attention to the provisions on love for neighbor and tolerance (which directly contradicts the notion of "extremism"). They are also asked to read out the provisions that say that Jehovah's Witnesses are trying to give their children a good education.

10:40   The Charter of the UC is being investigated. The court is interested in the question, are religious groups part of the structures of the LROs? How many unregistered groups? The lawyers explain that unregistered groups are part of the CA structure. The concept of "structure" in the "Law on Freedom of Conscience" is connected with the separation of religion from the state. Religions exist in accordance with their internal hierarchical institutional structure, to which the state does not delve. In this regard, the UC does not maintain legal documentation related to the activities of unregistered groups, and therefore can not provide official information to the court.

10:47   The court announces a 10-minute technical break.

[Margaret]

Edited April 19, 2017 by Margaret
Repeat

[DinaG.]

1 minute ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

I believe that CA = Administrative Center or the Russian Branch

 

Right.

[Patinage]

""Lawyers pay attention to the provisions on love for neighbor and tolerance (which directly contradicts the notion of "extremism"). They are also asked to read out the provisions that say that Jehovah's Witnesses are trying to give their children a good education. ""

Good points !!!

[Beggar for the Spirit]

The court announces a 10-minute technical break.

Translation:

The lawyers for the Ministry of Justice cannot get their computers "working" properly

 

Translation:

The lawyers are delaying since they don't know how to respond 

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Hi Sister Dina,

Any developments in Moldova or in your area in the past few days?

We hope everything is fine for you and the brothers/sisters in your area 

[Patinage]

I choose the second option: they don't know what to say !!!!

[jayrtom]

11:00
 The study of documents is continuing.  The court lists various court decisions.  When the decision of the Rostov Regional Court of 2009 (on the Taganrog MRO) is investigated, the representative of the respondent Omelchenko draws attention to the fact that this decision was made before the decision of the plenum of the Supreme Court, which ruled what is extremism and what is not.  For example, the Taganrog community, as well as the publication of Jehovah's Witnesses by this decision, were recognized for "undermining respect for other religions", "refusing to use blood for medical purposes", "refusing to fulfill civil obligations."  Also, a number of publications were considered extremist for having absolutely nothing to do with extremism.  For example, the brochure "Jehovah's Witnesses.  Who are they?  What do they believe in? "Was deemed extremist for mentioning that Jehovah's Witnesses do not take up arms.  There are other examples. 
 

[Patinage]

Have you noticed that Brother Sanderson is still attending the trial...

10.05 - first photo

Edited April 19, 2017 by Patinage

[DinaG.]

7 minutes ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

Hi Sister Dina,

Any developments in Moldova or in your area in the past few days?

We hope everything is fine for you and the brothers/sisters in your area 

Hi! No changes. We are fine, thank you. Memorial was properly held without any problems. This Saturday we are going to congress to Chisinau in Moldova, as we cannot organize congresses in Transnistria for about 20 years.

[Patinage]

"Was deemed extremist for mentioning that Jehovah's Witnesses do not take up arms.

 

There is nothing to add...!!!

[Beggar for the Spirit]

This statement proves we are extremists!

"... deemed extremist for mentioning(in our brochure) that Jehovah's Witnesses do not take up arms"

This is an "extremist" viewpoint of peace because the majority of people in the world would not agree with NOT taking up arms to fight for their country or beliefs.

 

I guess we are extremist after all. We are guilty as charged! 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[jayrtom]

11:10 am
 Representatives of the defendant draw attention to the fact that the enumerated judicial acts were issued without involvement of the CA, therefore, they can not serve as evidence on the suit. 

 11:15
 Novakov's representative draws attention to the fact that at least one court decision, although the Ministry of Justice attached it to the case, was quashed by a higher court. 

 11:20
 The Act of verification by the Ministry of Justice is being discussed.  Lawyers draw attention to the unreliability of the Ministry of Justice's conclusion that the UC hides information about imported literature.  In fact, having provided more than 70,000 sheets of documents for examination to the Ministry of Justice, the UC refused to provide the information that the Ministry of Justice had to request from the customs authorities within the framework of interdepartmental cooperation. 

[Patinage]

I thought it meant: "Is it considered extremist not to take up arms?"

[JJMS]

So we´re extremist because " We dont kill people"?

[Beggar for the Spirit]

While some governments wouldn't define the term"Extremist" like this below, here are a couple of interesting definitions of "Extremist" from several well known dictionaries:

(Merriam-Webster)

"belief in and support for ideas that are very far from what most people consider correct or reasonable"

 

(Cambridge Dictionary)

"someone who has beliefs that most people think are unreasonable and unacceptable"

Edited April 19, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Stormswift]

So, in effect, we have ISIS and the like at one end of the extremist spectrum and Jehovah's WItnesses at the other end of the spectrum. So yes in that respect we are extremists, but only because the world has made what is normal - abnormal and what is abnormal normal. Their spiritual compass is non existant - their North is not true North ... so yes by definition of the above - we are extremists, but in a very positive light.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Sister Mandi has confessed to being an extremist.

Good for her! 

Me too!

[Stormswift]

Just now, Beggar for the Spirit said:

Sister Mandi has confessed to being an extremist.

Good for her! 

Me too!

Well let them freeze my bank account, I don't much in it anyway!! (seriously though ... they are past all sense, anything could happen, unless it's Jehovah's time to step in).

[Bluebell]

11:30

The representative of the Ministry of Justice draws attention to the fact that, according to one of the documents, more than 2,000 unregistered groups operate under the leadership of the UC. The lawyers explain that this is an internal spiritual structure.

The court is interested in the representative of the Ministry of Justice, for what purpose they were attached to the business turnover balance sheet. The representative of the Ministry of Justice explains that the statements indicate that "money may have been sent to finance extremist activities." The court asks, from which it can be seen that money was spent on extremist activity, rather than on ordinary statutory goals. The Ministry of Justice does not have exact data. The representative of Topors draws attention to the fact that, within the framework of the audit, the Ministry of Justice provided all contracts of targeted donations of the Center, which provided the deciphering of the purpose of all financial transfers. The legal question of the representative: "Why did not the Ministry of Justice submit these documents to the court?"

[Patinage]

That reminds me of Titus 1:15

"All things are clean to clean people..."

Their mind is distorted so their arguments are also twisted.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Nor sure if this translation is correct but I think the Court is looking into our lawyers claims that there has been an "unreliability" of the Ministry of Justice's conclusions about JWs hiding information about "importing literature".

So if I am understanding this correctly, the Russian Branch has "provided more than 70,000 sheets of documents for examination to the Ministry of Justice".

 

So I guess 70,000 sheets of information/documents is not enough and is considered "hiding".

What is considered "not hiding" information?   80,000 documents?

[Raven]

The legal question of the representative: "Why did not the Ministry of Justice submit these documents to the court?

 

Good question.

[Patinage]

""The representative of the Ministry of Justice explains that the statements indicate that "money may have been sent to finance extremist activities. The court asks, from which it can be seen that money was spent on extremist activity,..""

 

The court is arguing in our favor...!!!

[New World Explorer]

I think Ministry of Justice lawyers were expecting easy victory ....  well, so far this is not a case.