Ten Plagues Upon the Egyptian Post Office

[Ahuvah]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

OH NO! I flubbed my debut at JWTalk! Just like that first talk in the School aeons ago. So much for making a fine first impression. Moreover, some called me on it. Proving that I am in a fine place and that I am going to enjoy it here, they were all nice about it. Well, one perhaps was a little snippy, but I deserved it and accept it. His slight reproof was but a loving embrace compared to what I might expect in the world. 

 

I messed up on several fronts.

 

1.) I gave the (self-righteous?) impression that I walk around in sackcloth and ashes, glowering at anyone who cracks a smile. I don't. Though Tortega generously said I had a sense  of humor, everyone else thought she was nuts because it wasn't on display here. I fear I was 'righteous overmuch.'

 

2.) Use of the word 'flippant' is wrong, for doesn't that imply a touch of cynicism or insincerity? Our people are neither. 'Light-hearted' is what I should have said, like the troops were happily marching off to the lark that would prove to be World War I, only to return in a year holding their severed heads in their hands.

 

3.) I implied it was common. It is not.

 

4.) I implied it was on display here at JWTalk. In fact, I am too new to know.  But even if it has happened here, it does little 'damage.' This is a members-only forum. That is different than if some on Facebook have, at times, given the impression that this is a social event.

 

There's probably other sins, too, but I can't think of them right now.

Yes. We do. I feel that way, too. And it is joyous to work with the friends in this work, as in any other.

 

Let me see if I can straighten out and fly right. Here's how I should have phrased it: (on Facebook)

 

To the extent any of us are indiscreet, making 'taunting' comments like "You think you're tough, big man? Well, wait till you see what OUR God can do," I can easily imagine someone at Bethel not being enthused over social media. I haven't seen many of these remarks, but I have seen some. If there's one thing we know about Russian police, it is that they want to be feared. And our brothers in Russia DO fear them, no doubt - it is just that they fear and love Jehovah more. Before we make any comment, it seems well to ask ourselves whether a Russian brother would say it.

 

We shouldn't 'laugh' even at the spectacle of these guys not being able to move because we have flooded their mail. If anything, we should apologize for it, with the caveat that the situation is desperate for us, we didn't know what else to do, and we felt we had to get their attention somehow.

 

Fear the king. Do not treat him with disrespect.

 

What a lovely post!! So really it's all down to intent. I do agree though we have to see things as they may look to others too and sometimes we are miscontrued because we have been careless about how we convey something. Your message, my dear brother, was not lost on me ... just when we are talking other people's motives it becomes a bit murky.

 

I laugh at the cartoon of the postmen carrying the mail because I know full well they will be using vans or maybe even buses to transport our mail ... it would not be realistic to expect one poor man to carry it all - but then again - it's Russia ... they better not let one man do it ... that would change everything.

1 hour ago, rocket said:

 

 

Well, at least we haven't had to get the duct tape out yet!  

If you have to get it out - can we choose the colour?

 

 

 

Oh and Brother Tom (nice name btw) you didn't flubb ... it's part of having a well rounded conversation with different perspectives brought to the table that's all. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Stormswift

[shali]

11 hours ago, rocket said:

 

 

Well, at least we haven't had to get the duct tape out yet!  

GRRRRRR!!!!

[Tortuga]

2 minutes ago, shali said:

GRRRRRR!!!!

Are your lips still stuck together....?

[leoperales]

14 minutes ago, shali said:

GRRRRRR!!!!

Mmmmmmmm! Mmmmmmmmm! Mmmmmmmm!

[shali]

Obviously not.  But the memory is forever burned in my brain - haunting me day and night, tormenting my very soul, devouring all of my self-respect, dignity and pride (.....Nah, even I don't believe what I'm saying!!)LOL

[rocket]

59 minutes ago, shali said:

Obviously not.  But the memory is forever burned in my brain - haunting me day and night, tormenting my very soul, devouring all of my self-respect, dignity and pride (.....Nah, even I don't believe what I'm saying!!)LOL

 

We say we love you but the truth is in the Duct Tape.

[tekmantwo]

16 hours ago, Stormswift said:

 

If you have to get it out - can we choose the colour?

 

Absolutely not!

 

It is a well known fact  (read it on Facebook ) that Sisters know very little about duct tape,  its choosing or its usage. ..

 

It's absolutely imperative that,  if the intended 'target' is to be, in fact,  surprised,  camouflage duct tape must be used.....

 

 

[JudyO]

On 3/29/2017 at 9:38 AM, Stormswift said:

I am pretty sure amongst the Israelites camps there were moments of light relief ... they stood still on the shore of the Red Sea ... but walking through the red sea, which was a day's journey, I'm sure there were some with a sense of humor who probably made some quick and witty quip. The bible remains silent on personal conversations.

"Now children, watch where you step! Moses and Aaron say they don't know how long those shoes might have to last before you get a new pair."

[Ahuvah]

6 hours ago, tekmantwo said:

Absolutely not!

 

It is a well known fact  (read it on Facebook ) that Sisters know very little about duct tape,  its choosing or its usage. ..

 

It's absolutely imperative that,  if the intended 'target' is to be, in fact,  surprised,  camouflage duct tape must be used.....

 

 

But camouflage colours don't go with turquoise and maroon.

[tekmantwo]

4 hours ago, Stormswift said:

But camouflage colours don't go with turquoise and maroon.

I am so thankful. ....

[TrueTomHarley]

On 3/29/2017 at 10:38 AM, Stormswift said:

we all get this overwhelming feeling we are on the brink of something unprecedented and monumental ... similar to that of the plagues on Egypt ... whether it plays out like the plagues is yet to be seen.  

Yes. There was a report (does anyone have it?) that our brothers in Russia have withdrawn all appeals and have instead requested the largest possible courtroom for the April 5th hearing, the 'overflow' courtroom. Though I haven't confirmed it (you may know all about it) it is exactly what they would do - play this out before the largest possible audience. 

 

It is just how Jehovah is having it play out on the world wide today. The GB invites us to write, to bring our gift to the altar. Our people respond to such an enthusiastic degree that national Post Offices are getting crushed.  Of course, this leads to publicity everywhere as to just why that is, and the reason is astounding to non-Witnesses. I'd be surprised if every Witness in the world does not write to Putin or one of his chums. Surely, the world takes notice of a faith where each member takes such an interest in each other - especially since they risk getting run over in the parking lot of their own church once services are over. Putin may just load the letters on supertankers and sink them at sea - just how do you cope with millions of unexpected letters - but he cannot fail to be know that they exist.

 

Those who hate Jehovah's Witnesses join in the fray, writing letters in support of the ban, like the Edomites of Psalm 137 who screamed "lay it bare!' This almost makes it better, for it adds to the tonnage. But more importantly, everyone takes their place on the world stage. Let the people firmly and publicly divide themselves in to the sheep and the goats. Perhaps the GB is luring them all, as with hooks in their jaws.

 

Meanwhile, note how our people conduct themselves. Note how extraordinarily respectful they are (as is seen in our videos) toward  Russian authorities. Note the Sept 2016 Study Wt article on Defending the Good News before courts, which is being used today as a template. Note how our respectful response is so contrary to what the world would expect that it only adds to the witness.

 

Let every person in the world become aware of and take a stand on this issue. If it is to be, let Russian officials look themselves in the mirror and publicly declare: "I believe, what with all the villains and scoundrels on the loose today in our country, that taking out Jehovah's Witnesses is the most important thing we can do."

 

The campaign may fail in its goal of swaying the minds of Russian officials. But it will not fail in its giving a massive witness. it will not fail in stepping up the preaching work worldwide, as it presents fresh evidence that 'the time left is reduced.' It will not fail in giving our Russian brothers tremendous reinforcement. For the rest of their lives, persons will approach them and say: "You crushed our Post Office. Just what kind of people are you, anyway?"

[hatcheckgirl]

10 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But more importantly, everyone takes their place on the world stage. Let the people firmly and publicly divide themselves in to the sheep and the goats. Perhaps the GB is luring them all, as with hooks in their jaws.

Something different about this to me too.  Letter writing campaigns in the past did not have this much force behind them.  It seems that it is for another purpose altogether and not just for the Russian brothers to have relief - it's to "bring it on".  I wait quietly in anticipation with however it pans out - if it is a part of the leadup to the end coming very soon, all good.  If it is a way off, still ok with me.  We just keep plugging along and not lose our focus on the best outcome for humanity - when Jehovah's Kingdom rules on earth, as it is in Heaven.

[leoperales]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Yes. There was a report (does anyone have it?) that our brothers in Russia have withdrawn all appeals and have instead requested the largest possible courtroom for the April 5th hearing, the 'overflow' courtroom. Though I haven't confirmed it (you may know all about it) it is exactly what they would do - play this out before the largest possible audience. 

 

It is just how Jehovah is having it play out on the world wide today. The GB invites us to write, to bring our gift to the altar. Our people respond to such an enthusiastic degree that national Post Offices are getting crushed.  Of course, this leads to publicity everywhere as to just why that is, and the reason is astounding to non-Witnesses. I'd be surprised if every Witness in the world does not write to Putin or one of his chums. Surely, the world takes notice of a faith where each member takes such an interest in each other - especially since they risk getting run over in the parking lot of their own church once services are over. Putin may just load the letters on supertankers and sink them at sea - just how do you cope with millions of unexpected letters - but he cannot fail to be know that they exist.

 

Those who hate Jehovah's Witnesses join in the fray, writing letters in support of the ban, like the Edomites of Psalm 137 who screamed "lay it bare!' This almost makes it better, for it adds to the tonnage. But more importantly, everyone takes their place on the world stage. Let the people firmly and publicly divide themselves in to the sheep and the goats. Perhaps the GB is luring them all, as with hooks in their jaws.

 

Meanwhile, note how our people conduct themselves. Note how extraordinarily respectful they are (as is seen in our videos) toward  Russian authorities. Note the Sept 2016 Study Wt article on Defending the Good News before courts, which is being used today as a template. Note how our respectful response is so contrary to what the world would expect that it only adds to the witness.

 

Let every person in the world become aware of and take a stand on this issue. If it is to be, let Russian officials look themselves in the mirror and publicly declare: "I believe, what with all the villains and scoundrels on the loose today in our country, that taking out Jehovah's Witnesses is the most important thing we can do."

 

The campaign may fail in its goal of swaying the minds of Russian officials. But it will not fail in its giving a massive witness. it will not fail in stepping up the preaching work worldwide, as it presents fresh evidence that 'the time left is reduced.' It will not fail in giving our Russian brothers tremendous reinforcement. For the rest of their lives, persons will approach them and say: "You crushed our Post Office. Just what kind of people are you, anyway?"

This doesn't make sense. I don't think it would behoove the organization to withdraw their appeal at this last stage. It's probably not true. You know how the social media websites can get a little out of hand. In the Spanish speaking JW world, the social media was sharing a video of brothers singing in Britain back in the 2014 international conventions, saying it was our brothers in Russia singing outside the post office. Of course, those of use that are bilingual knew right off the bat that they were singing in English, and a little more investigation would have resulted in clearly debunking the claim that it was our brothers in Russia. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by leoperales

[Ahuvah]

50 minutes ago, leoperales said:

This doesn't make sense. I don't think it would behoove the organization to withdraw their appeal at this last stage. It's probably not true. You know how the social media websites can get a little out of hand. In the Spanish speaking JW world, the social media was sharing a video of brothers singing in Britain back in the 2014 international conventions, saying it was our brothers in Russia singing outside the post office. Of course, those of use that are bilingual knew right off the bat that they were singing in English, and a little more investigation would have resulted in clearly debunking the claim that it was our brothers in Russia. 

 

but then with the Egyptians, Jehovah took some twists andturns that at first glance didn't make sensealso. Would like any reports substantiated though of course.

[shali]

We will just have to wait for the facts from the FDS through JW.org - those will be the only reports that can truly be verified.  In the meantime, just keep praying with all your might that no matter how this matter turns out that it results in a great witness to Jehovah and that our brothers can endure with joy and hope!

[TrueTomHarley]

From elsewhere, posted by bruceq:

 

Yes Tom that is true and it is also in the public press here :

Enormous attention to Jehovah's Witnesses case

PETITION FILED FOR SPACIOUS COURTROOM AND VIDEOTAPING IN HEARINGS IN SUPREME COURT OF RUSSIA

https://www.jw-russia.org/news/17032310-109.html

 

On 21 March 2017 the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia sent to the Supreme Court of Russia a petition that for the hearing on the lawsuit of the Russian Ministry of Justice a courtroom for the sessions capable of accommodating 200 and more persons be provided and also that there be provided the possibility for persons present in the courtroom to make video recordings of the judicial session.

 

"In and of itself the submission of such an unprecedented petition to the court is for Russia an extraordinary event, attention to which is riveted not only in all of Russia but throughout the world also, since Jehovah's Witnesses are not only a well known and recognized religion in Russia but also a famous Christian religion worldwide, that is professed in an overwhelming majority of countries and territories of the world. After the posting of the aforementioned information on the website of the Supreme Court of the RF, the Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia received numerous requests for clarification of the date and time of the hearing from representatives of local religious organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses, state bodies, news media, rights advocacy organizations, representatives of embassies of various countries, believers, and other persons," one of the petitions says. "Orally they express their desire to be immediately present for the consideration of this case."

 

[I cannot read Russian. Someone who can should visit the site provided (cut and paste) and confirm it matches the translation brucceq supplied me. It sounds so much like the language of the truth, however, that I don't doubt that it is valid.]

 

[Margaret]

ENGLISH

 

An application was made for a roomy room and videotaping at a hearing in the Supreme Court of Russia March 23, 2017 Great Hall of the Supreme Court An attempt to completely ban Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia On March 21, 2017, the Management Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia applied to the Russian Supreme Court with petitions that a hearing room under the suit of the Ministry of Justice of Russia be granted a meeting room capable of holding 200 or more people, and that persons present in the courtroom Meeting, videotape the court session. "In itself, the submission of such an unprecedented statement to the court is an extraordinary event for Russia, attention to which is riveted not only throughout Russia, but all over the world, since Jehovah's Witnesses are not only a well-known and recognized religion in Russia, but also worldwide Known Christian religion, practiced in the vast majority of countries and territories of the world. After posting the information on the website of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation, numerous requests are made to the Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia to clarify the date and time of the hearing from representatives of local religious organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses, state bodies ... - the mass media, human rights organizations, Representatives of embassies of different countries, believers and other persons. Orally, they express their desire to be directly present at the consideration of this case. " The hearing will begin on April 5, 2017 at 10:00 in the Supreme Court of Russia, located at: Moscow, ul. Povarskaya, 13. Nearest metro stations: Barrikadnaya and Arbatskaya. Read on: Why is it wrong to consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be extremists?

[Margaret]

ENGLISH

 

Why is it wrong to consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be extremists? January 4, 2017 The incitement of hatred towards people is alien to Jehovah's Witnesses, because they follow the love-loving covenants of Jesus Christ. To attribute extremism to them is erroneous for several reasons. 1. The more than 100-year history of this religion proves the non-extremist nature of their views. Jehovah's Witnesses never take up arms. In Germany, they at the cost of freedom and even their lives refused to serve in the units of the Wehrmacht. In the USSR, subjected to cruel oppression, the Witnesses did not harbor hatred of their persecutors. Now Jehovah's Witnesses are a multinational brotherhood that has proven the ability to overcome prejudices that divide people. 2. Nowhere else in the world, except Russia, Jehovah's Witnesses are accused of extremism. Communities of this religion freely operate in more than 200 countries. They are all united by one, a Bible-based dogma. Millions of Jehovah's Witnesses are concerned about unfounded accusations against their Russian co-religionists. 3. Russian experts in the field of human rights condemn the application of the law on extremism to Jehovah's Witnesses. The Commissioner for Human Rights in the Russian Federation in his report for 2013 noted: "The problem of imperfection of the so-called" anti-extremist "legislation remains acute. The fuzzy statement of the basic concept of "extremism" itself becomes even more blurred when the definition of "religious" is added to it. What exactly is "religious extremism" can not be solved even by scholars of religious studies. But this "rubber" concept is easily operated by other law enforcement and judicial bodies in the field, investing in it own subjective attitude to a particular confession. " 4. The international community condemns the application of the law on extremism to Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia. "The Assembly calls on the Russian authorities ... to refrain from applying the law on extremist activity against all religious communities, especially Jehovah's Witnesses" (Resolution of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe No. 1896 [2012], paragraph 25.31). The UN Human Rights Committee has repeatedly expressed concern that in Russia the law on extremism "is directed, in particular, against Jehovah's Witnesses" (CCPR / C / SR.3157., Concluding Observations on the seventh periodic report of the Russian Federation). Jehovah's Witnesses themselves see an explanation of what is happening in the prophetic words of Jesus Christ, who was executed on false charges of inciting sedition. He warned his disciples: "If they persecuted me, they will persecute you" (John 15:20). Read on: Why do Jehovah's Witnesses toss forbidden literature?

[Omoyeme]

Quote

Enoromous Attention to the Jehovah's Witness case.

I surmise that that is the last thing that the Russian Orthodox Church wants.

[TrueTomHarley]

The trick will be to generate such worldwide publicity, to make every person aware, that for Putin to snuff out Jehovah’s Witnesses will be comparable to his strangling a cat on live TV. He may decide not to do it. He wants to be regarded as wise, as firm where necessary, but certainly not as an unhinged Kim Jong-un. 

 

To be sure, he plays hardball when he has to, but he may come to realize that here he does not have to. What with Post Offices around the world being crushed with the volume of JW letters, likely from every Witness in the world, (to him or to one of his associates) everyone except the most disconnected may become aware of the situation soon to be decided by him. Will he want to be an international pariah? All our letters will be respectful, [except some seeded in by those religious enemies who want the ban to proceed] in sharp contrast to how he is usually portrayed in the West. 

 

He may get fed up, not with us, but with the house church that is trying to feed him the line that jw.org is extremist, doing so for the purpose of taking out the competition. He may, on a night he cannot sleep, peruse jw.org, see that it plainly is not extremist, as every other nation in the world sees, and come to resent the house church that would have him look like a total ass on the world stage. In short, he may come to realize that, what with all the very real concerns facing his country, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not one of them.

Edited April 2, 2017 by TrueTomHarley

[hatcheckgirl]

I like the thoughts you've written, Tom.  It certainly seems to be the most reasonable way to view the matter, if we were in Putin's place.  However, if we see how Jehovah allowed Pharaoh to stay obstinate despite seeing miracles, it was for a higher purpose (at that time, and who knows if this is a similar time for him to do so again).  We just have to see, don't we?  Exciting times in view of the past 2 regional conventions that have pretty much warned us something big will be happening soon, so we must be ready to act in faith and trust in Jehovah.  Let's just see how it pans out!

 

Rom 9:17, 18  For the scripture says to Pharʹaoh: “For this very reason I have let you remain: to show my power in connection with you and to have my name declared in all the earth.”  So, then, he has mercy on whomever he wishes, but he lets whomever he wishes become obstinate.

[Tortuga]

I'm curious whether or not the media and Putin will be able to completely ignore the letters. I hope it isn't the case but I wonder if we should be prepared for this not to have the impact that we are expecting it to have. Hope for the best, be prepared for the worse...

[timpin]

"I'm curious whether or not the media and Putin will be able to completely ignore the letters."

 

 

Have you not seen the many posts in several threads so far that many local media around the globe have already started to pick up on this in the past week???

Do you really expect "NOTHING" to happen???

 

seriously, come out of your shell    ...   It's Happening!   ...   and we have been granted the privilege to be a part of it!

Edited April 2, 2017 by timpin

[Omoyeme]

1 hour ago, hatcheckgirl said:

Rom 9:17, 18  For the scripture says to Pharʹaoh: “For this very reason I have let you remain: to show my power in connection with you and to have my name declared in all the earth.”  So, then, he has mercy on whomever he wishes, but he lets whomever he wishes become obstinate.

This scripture has me thinking about many of the obstinate rulers throughout ancient and modern history that have persecuted/taunted Jehovah's servants (Pharoah, Nebuchadnezzar, Sennacherib all the way down to Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler) and now Vladimir Putin.  Is it reasonable to conclude that Jehovah is allowing this arrogant ruler and his Russian Orthodox co-horts to continue on their unjust path of persecution, so when the time soon arrives, He will cause His will to be done on the world's stage?  It's really something to ponder. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by Omo_Yeme

[Musky]

11 minutes ago, timpin said:

"I'm curious whether or not the media and Putin will be able to completely ignore the letters."

 

 

Have you not seen the many posts in several threads so far that many local media around the globe have already picked up on this in the past week???

Do you really expect "NOTHING" to happen???

 

come out of your shell   ...   It's Happening!   ...   and we have been granted the privilege to be a part of it!

 

How many of these news stories mention Putin's reaction? Is he quoted in ANY of them? So far these are hometown news stories that just repeat what's on jw.org. The mainstream news hasn't picked it up yet as far as I know. You should read the post carefully before responding to it. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by Musky