Special Talk 2019

[Sheep]

2 hours ago, campanula said:

Did your speaker also say twice: "Who is not a baptised servant of Jehovah will not get everlasting  life!"?

Ours did.... and with a deep pause in between.... 

Hhmm. I don't remember that part.  (I heard the talk last weekend in French.) I'll have to pay closer attention tomorrow in my own congregation.

 

[Sheep]

43 minutes ago, Nirex said:

So if it came tomorrow and we're working towards it, we're not making it? What of others who are waiting for a convention or assembly?

That's a question I have sometimes wondered about. Although there's a lot that could be said on that subject, the short answer is that Jehovah can know that thoughts and intentions of the heart. He is in a better position to know what exactly is holding that person back, even if it's simply a date on a calendar for the next assembly. Jehovah is not unrighteous.

[Saffron]

55 minutes ago, Sheep said:

That's a question I have sometimes wondered about. Although there's a lot that could be said on that subject,

I wonder about a lot, but not really this. Jehovah time and time again has shown how much he wants to save people, so I can not imagine a scenario where he would destroy someone who just didn't make it to a convention to get baptized. 

 

Jesus said that we wouldn't finish preaching before the end came. I can not imagine Jesus during the judging process like "Sorry you lived in an isolated area where no one was around to preach. Guess you are a goat." 

 

When the CO said that people wouldn't be saved unless they were baptized, could it be possible that he was referring to people who are straddling the fence? Those who know the truth, but choose not to take a stand?

 

[jwhess]

Sr. V, perhaps you could find acceptance if we rephrased the comment by saying, "If you could get baptized (not the only person on a desert island, mature enough, etc), but you did not, will you get saved?"

 

Matthew 12:30 comes to mind..."Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."

 

How do you prove to others and Jesus that you are definitely (and publicly stated) on his side.  You prove it by dedicating your life to God and getting baptized in the name of the Father and Son.  Refusal to do so states exactly what your feelings are.

[Saffron]

1 minute ago, jwhess said:

. V, perhaps you could find acceptance if we rephrased the comment by saying, "If you could get baptized (not the only person on a desert island, mature enough, etc), but you did not, will you get saved?"

This I can definitely understand. Not taking a stand for Jehovah and getting baptized is a choice. The fence belongs to Satan. 

 

I was responding to the comment about someone being destroyed simply because the end came before the next assembly where there would be an opportunity for baptism. I don't believe that Jehovah would do that any more than I believe that he would destroy someone too mentally ill, immature ect. to be baptized. 

[campanula]

5 hours ago, Sheep said:

Hhmm. I don't remember that part.  (I heard the talk last weekend in French.) I'll have to pay closer attention tomorrow in my own congregation.

 

I will wait for your comment after that, because the speaker on our video spoke like a native eanglish speaker,  without any german accent,  but the talk was very logical and  even I would say dry. And this expression really made a deep impression on many friends in the congregation...

Edited April 14, 2019 by campanula

[sunshine]

Yes it did seem geared towards those that associate with us but are holding back from baptism.  Those working towards baptism or waiting for the next convention are not "holding back".  

[Bluebell]

Brother  Stephen Mourice (Britain Branch) said in the special talk,

exactly his words.....:

To get a firm hold on the real life

you must be a baptized servant of Jehovah

Edited April 14, 2019 by Bluebell

[Ms. Piffle]

16 hours ago, campanula said:

Did your speaker also say twice: "Who is not a baptised servant of Jehovah will not get everlasting  life!"?

Ours did.... and with a deep pause in between.... 

Yes, that is how our speaker delivered it also.  Twice with a definite pause in between.  

[Nirex]

33 minutes ago, Bluebell said:

Brother  Stephen Mourice (Britain Branch) said in the special talk,

exactly his words.....:

To get a firm hold on the real life

you must be a baptized servant of Jehovah

So working towards it isn't enough?

 

Here's a question then... As we get closer do you think they'll start baptizing  people without assemblies again?

[Tortuga]

8 minutes ago, Nirex said:

So working towards it isn't enough?

 

Here's a question then... As we get closer do you think they'll start baptizing  people without assemblies again?

Good question.  Many of the Yearbooks have experiences of ones that were baptized under a variety of conditions,  so its logical that Jehovah will help us find a way to baptize. 

[Poly Ester]

10 hours ago, campanula said:

I will wait for your comment after that, because the speaker on our video spoke like a native eanglish speaker,  without any german accent,  but the talk was very logical and  even I would say dry. And this expression really made a deep impression on many friends in the congregation...

I listened very carefully... and our speaker,  who was Bro Maurice  from the U.K. branch said 

" To get a hold on the real life you need to be a baptised witness of God" 

Edited April 14, 2019 by anniebea

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Bluebell said:

Brother  Stephen Mourice (Britain Branch) said in the special talk,

exactly his words.....:

To get a firm hold on the real life

you must be a baptized servant of Jehovah

 

1 hour ago, Nirex said:

So working towards it isn't enough?

 

Here's a question then... As we get closer do you think they'll start baptizing  people without assemblies again?

 

In reality we won't have the real life until after Armageddon.  Billions of people resurrected will need to be baptized.  Even many who survive Armageddon will still need to progress to baptism. The statement made in the Special Talk was made in such a way to motivate people to continue to progress toward baptism.  

 

It was not made with the understanding that only baptized individuals will survive Armageddon.  Getting hold of the real life is not the same thing as surviving Armageddon.

[campanula]

2 hours ago, Bubbles said:

Yes, that is how our speaker delivered it also.  Twice with a definite pause in between.  

And now my question is: Does that mean that we are one more step closer toward delivering a judgement mesege? 

[Old]

2 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Good question.  Many of the Yearbooks have experiences of ones that were baptized under a variety of conditions,  so its logical that Jehovah will help us find a way to baptize. 

even today individuals can be baptize outside the convention/assembly arrangement. Those with certain communical deseases, someone whose health does not allow attendance at a convention. In one case the person was so obese very special arrangements were made. Many are baptized underground in simple hidden circumstances where our work is banned.

[jwhess]

Br. Larson gave the US talk and he said the words about being baptized twice in a row.  Then used similar expressions about the importance of baptism several times in the following 5 minutes or so.

 

[Nirex]

It almost sounded like a last call to people. At least that's how I took it.

[Sheep]

On 4/13/2019 at 3:29 PM, campanula said:

Did your speaker also say twice: "Who is not a baptised servant of Jehovah will not get everlasting  life!"?

Ours did.... and with a deep pause in between.... 

 

22 hours ago, Sheep said:

Hhmm. I don't remember that part. (I heard the talk last weekend in French.) I'll have to pay closer attention tomorrow in my own congregation.

 

16 hours ago, campanula said:

I will wait for your comment after that . . .

 

Hi Svetlana. In Canada, our speaker was Warren Shewfelt from the Canada Bethel. In our talk, he did mention baptism being a requirement. But only once, not twice. And there was no pause, which would have made it stand out. Anyway, it didn't come across the same way as you describe in your post. As someone else mentioned earlier, he did spend quite some time discussing baptism afterward. See below.

 

7 hours ago, Nirex said:

So working towards it isn't enough?

 

Here's a question then... As we get closer do you think they'll start baptizing  people without assemblies again?

 

Baptisms with no assembly? Possibly. Time will tell.

 

Brother Shewfelt mentioned the time following the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s. During the Soviet era, the brothers couldn't do baptisms openly. But even for a while after 1991 the brothers were still a bit nervous about holding baptisms publicly in a rented stadium, and so they held them on a beach. There was no assembly, just baptisms. (Brother Shewfelt served in Georgia, part of the former USSR, during that time. You can see him with his arm being twisted in the photo in this article.) So there on the beach all the baptism candidates were nearby ready to go into the water. Just to make sure they went to the right place, brothers in the lake held up big signs saying something like: "Baptisms this way," to give direction. However, there were others on the beach from the general public who were not Jehovah's Witnesses, just there for a swim. They saw these signs and thought: "Okay. Sounds like something important. Let's go!" And so at some point the brothers lost track and had no idea who was who, who were actually Witnesses ready to be baptized and who were not. So they decided to just baptize everyone who came into the water, whether they were qualified or not. His point in mentioning that experience was that baptism is not a spur-of-the-moment decision, nor is it intended for just anyone. It needs to be carefully and prayerfully considered and decided, as a result of their heartfelt dedication to God. That means the people on this beach who simply "followed the crowd" into the water were not cut out for the real life.

 

If we will need baptisms on a beach in the future, there would need to be a better way to organize things.

[cricket246]

The Brother who gave our talk also said “To attain the real life you must be a baptized servant of Jehovah.” And he said it twice, with a slight pause in between... And compared the first century christian who asked “What prevents me from being baptized?” 

 

So now my question is, if the beginning of the GT is the symbolic ark door closing, will baptisms cease until the New System when the teaching starts back up?

Edited April 14, 2019 by cricket246

[bagwell1987]

I've been doing a lot studying lately. The underlying messages from WT lessons,  the broadcasts, annual meeting is love, loyalty, courage. Like others said I also heard timed pauses from the brother giving the talk as he emphasized getting dedicated and baptized. And I also agree that the talk was directed to interested ones. Very timely too as we had several newly interested ones at the meeting. Our hall holds 120-ish and we were packed to the rafters.  Something else I appreciated was how deliberate he was in describing the 5 steps necessary to reach baptism,  I thought it was reassuring to those who want to keep progressing- they have a checklist that they could use as sort of goal posts.

1- learning about Jah, John 17:3, 

2- build strong faith by study and meetings

3- repentance or regret of sins

4- turning around in what we think or do

5-  Matthew 16:24,25 disowning ourselves, self-sacrificing, live for Jah's will not ours. 

 

I appreciated the last comments too. It's the same thing emphasized by our brother at the midweek meeting- whatever we have now as far as money, cars, homes, bank accounts...it doesn't matter, it'll all be gone. The brother in today's talk said essentially the same thing, saying NOW is the time. Jehovah will help us have the energy (I certainly need that as my energy is so drained) using Philippians 2:13- For God is the one who for the sake of his good pleasure energizes you, giving you both the desire and the power to act

[Beggar for the Spirit]

"To get a firm hold on the real life

you must be a baptized servant of Jehovah"

I think it would be good to reflect again on Shawn's comments when thinking about this expression in the Special Talk:

7 hours ago, Shawnster said:

In reality we won't have the real life until after Armageddon.  Billions of people resurrected will need to be baptized.  Even many who survive Armageddon will still need to progress to baptism. The statement made in the Special Talk was made in such a way to motivate people to continue to progress toward baptism.  

It was not made with the understanding that only baptized individuals will survive Armageddon.  Getting hold of the real life is not the same thing as surviving Armageddon.

I was going to write something similar but Shawn stated it better. 

Were those words in the Special Talk trying to emphasize survival at Armageddon or that the judgement message is one step closer? No, while there was an emphasis on those words, which is helpful to those not baptized yet, this is not anything new or special. Our organization has always understood the importance of being dedicated/baptized, not just for the purpose of survival, but most importantly to show our love and commitment to our Father Jehovah.

 

So that means that the "Real Life" is not just about paradise and perfect health, but that we live as Jehovah intended for us, having an intimate relationship with Him in perfect conditions and in perfect health. Because being in paradise and being perfect, while wonderful, is not the best life, not the "Real Life". The "Real Life" also involves true happiness and genuine peace, not just peace with people but peace with Jehovah, and this peace begins by us making an unreserved dedication to Jehovah and baptism symbolizes this publicly. So those words in the outline of the Special Talk are important, but the Governing Body has always emphasized this. 

Quote

*** bh chap. 19 p. 192 par. 21 Remain in God’s Love ***
God’s Word urges us to “get a firm hold on the real life.” (1 Timothy 6:19) Those words indicate that “the real life” is something we hope to attain in the future. Yes, when we are perfect, we will be alive in the fullest sense of the word, for we will be living as God originally intended us to live. When we are living on a paradise earth in complete health, peace, and happiness, we will at last enjoy “the real life”—everlasting life. (1 Timothy 6:12) Is that not a wonderful hope?
 

*** w06 4/1 p. 30 par. 20 Meeting the Requirements for Christian Baptism ***
” Yes, dedication and baptism offer the prospect of gaining “a firm hold on the real life”—everlasting life in God’s new world. (1 Timothy 6:19)

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Beggar for the Spirit

[loveandpeace]

Was there a picture shown in one of the examples during the talk? We had it in Spanish but my friend in the English says they did not have one. It was of a man holding on to a rope over the edge of a clif.

[Shannie]

There are ones making NEGATIVE REMARKS not really negative but concerning comments.... about the SPECIAL TALK...???

 

Please see below what they are saying..What are you thoughts?

 

"Have you all had your special talk today?   Did you notice that he said twice, whoever is not baptised will not make it to everlasting life,  how does this affect our children?

 

"yes i heard that, made me very down :("

 

"Show me this and back it up with scripture. He's speculating   
I remember a scpiture that says he Jehovah will sift through the people with his eyes and destroy the wicked."

 

"yes I did notice that. it made me confused bc surely there will be ones who have the right heart condition who are not yet baptized. what about the ones who are disfellowshipped but are making strides to come back and who have the right heart condition?"

 

"The thief of the cross didn't have anytime to be baptised nor obey 10 commandments, Just a thought, I know he was save by faith alone."

 

 

"A great number no man can number gets through Armageddon. It will apply to those who are deliberately delaying baptism. My sons Autistic and can’t do ministry at the moment so can’t get baptised does that mean he can’t get saved."

 

"But iam thinking in terms of my children who are baptized  publishers and really show no interest in the truth there were borne in the truth for me  it's sad because you can see they not putting any effort and all they tell you we know that's the right decision to make but still they dont comment or anything they just there"

 

"He also emphasized "now is the time" to take these steps!🌈"

 

"I feel like this talk was more direct than before, making sure that that those who really want a relationship need to make their minds up to have their relationship with Jehovah💙"

 

 

"I am wondering if it was so direct for those that are currently on the fence. The reason I think this is because there will be people out there that do have the right heart condition but maybe don't know the truth. There will be those who have been disfellowshiped, who are trying to come back to Jehovah. I maybe a bit soft and could be completely wrong, but it's up to Jehovah and we know he's not going to make mistakes. It's not up to us to decide who will get through or who won't. There will baptized ones that won't make it through Armageddon, it's all down to everyone's heart condition."

 

"Brothers and sisters, we can recall when Jesus was on earth, some listening were stumbled because they lacked understanding to the meaning behind some of those teachings. And we can also reflect on the time when the israelites were in the 40 years of wandering. Moses spoke the word of Jehovah to the people murmuring and complaining that the children who don't yet know right from wrong, they would enter into that land. Jehovah is just and loving and we can be absolutely positive that as long as we try our best to inculcate the truth in our children and continue to teach others about the truth, we will have nothing to fear. But we also remember that Jehovah gave us freewill. What people choose to do with their lives is based on their choices."

 

"I noticed. It means that parents who are witnesse's should work very hard to make sure their children are taught Jehovah's law and dedicate their lives to Jehovah"

 

"For me, i understood it as we should be working on our dedication to Jehovah and not wait for the “right time”. But that was the last step he mentioned. The first four are not less important. Don’t lose sight of the fact that if we put Jehovah first, everything else will fall into place. Who really thinks Jehovah would take away a baptized persons children simply because they are not baptized themselves? That is completely opposite of Jehovah’s love. Honestly, social media is not the right place to get a better understanding of what Jehovah is telling us through the faithful and discreet slave."

 

"If upon obtaining the "accurate knowledge" (regardless of their age) they delay or put-off baptism leaves them in a bad position. Upon getting that accurate knowledge, one would naturally  proceed to baptism.
A child may not be able to understand, grasp that "knowledge" and Jehovah would look at the heart, their environment, circumstance etc. Our preaching work "presents" people to that end to stand before Jehovah.
Judgement is for the wilful sinner.
Our preaching work prepares all people to stand before Jehovah's decision at the end.
At that point it is all up to Jehovah."

 

 

"I noticed that too. It could mean that we are closer to the great Tribulation than we ever thought possible. If we have family, friends, associates, even strangers. Now is the time to tell them of and about the truth of Jehovah's word."

 

"Remember at those days that Israelites who throw children in the fire for sacrificing which Jehovah never command that silly things and even About lot JW mother who are pregnant who have few days growing these still unborn babies have not yet baptized still go with mothers into new order . Just keeping smile and focus on Jehovah because some brothers don't explain enough. Nobody is perfect. Remember Jehovah love us"

 

"The children are under the parent's standing"

 

 

"This maybe way out in left field but as I listened initially and then right now re-listened to the talk the same thought struck me both times so here it goes....

The real life is AFTER Armageddon, and while there is a motivation to encourage ones to come to know Jehovah and dedicate ones life to Him, if the public declaration isn’t made just yet but being worked towards we will still have that 1,000 years. I’m thinking that EVERYONE entering The New System will have to be baptized; but the lack of elaborating on that detail maybe one of the tools utilized to sort the wheat from the weeds right now making people that have a basic knowledge and understanding decide right now to reserve the resources available to teach ones who truly didn’t have either enough knowledge and/or mental health or spiritual maturity to make a decision to be taught during the thousand years. 

Just my thoughts...."

 

"Baptism might have a specific meaning but cannot save us at all,it's only salvation through Christ that will do.Please refer on Revelation 22:14 for better understanding."

 

"For me.... "I have two adult family members under my roof".  Neither is Baptized, and one will never be so as they both struggle with mental Illness.  One is high functioning, however, this was my same question.  They love Jehovah, both were at the meeting, and try their best, but, it is what it is unfortunately.  I am curious as to how this all will play out."

 

"In Revelation it says those who take the Mark of the wild beast will not have their names written down in the book of life, there may be many reasons why someone has not yet been baptised, illness, depression, , it's Jesus who reads the heart and makes the decisions when he separates the sheep from the goats , if I was a newly interested person who heard that talk it would frighten the life out of me especially if you had mental health issues"

???????????

 

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Shannie

[Shawnster]

35 minutes ago, Shannie said:

There are ones making NEGATIVE REMARKS not really negative but concerning comments.... about the SPECIAL TALK...???

 

Please see below what they are saying..What are you thoughts?

My thoughts are you should not be reading negative remarks about the talk on Facebook.  If you see the conversation turning negative, leave the conversation.

 

Everything you posted that they said is NOT what the talk said.  None of it.

 

As I said earlier, the talk did not say to survive Armageddon a person must be baptized.  It did not say that.

 

Neil said it best:

 

3 hours ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

*** bh chap. 19 p. 192 par. 21 Remain in God’s Love ***
God’s Word urges us to “get a firm hold on the real life.” (1 Timothy 6:19) Those words indicate that “the real life” is something we hope to attain in the future. Yes, when we are perfect, we will be alive in the fullest sense of the word, for we will be living as God originally intended us to live. When we are living on a paradise earth in complete health, peace, and happiness, we will at last enjoy “the real life”—everlasting life. (1 Timothy 6:12) Is that not a wonderful hope?
 

*** w06 4/1 p. 30 par. 20 Meeting the Requirements for Christian Baptism ***
” Yes, dedication and baptism offer the prospect of gaining “a firm hold on the real life”—everlasting life in God’s new world. (1 Timothy 6:19)

 

The real life is at the end of the 1,000 years.  The real life is when we reach perfection.  The real life is not surviving Armageddon.

 

What did the talk say?  It said all those not baptized should be working toward baptism.  

 

(1 Peter 3:21, 22) 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 22 He is at God’s right hand, for he went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.
 

The talk said what we have always said.  There is no room for fence sitters.  The fence belongs to Satan.  If a person is old enough to be responsible for their own life, they should be working toward baptism.   Jehovah only wants people who want to serve him.

 

Doesn't that sound fair to you?

 

People will talk negative.  They talked negative about Job and he was the most loyal person to Jehovah on the entire Earth at the time he lived.  People will complain about the public talk. Don't listen to them.  Move on.  Don't even bother arguing or replying.  Don't cast your pearls before swine.  You have better things to do than argue with people who want to distort and twist and misrepresent that wonderful talk we just heard.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Shawnster

[Shawnster]

Nothing in the Special Talk was new.

 

*** w93 4/1 p. 6 Should You Be Baptized? ***
What, then, of Peter’s words at 1 Peter 3:21? There he says: “That which corresponds to this is also now saving you, namely, baptism, (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request made to God for a good conscience,) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” Peter was comparing baptism to Noah’s experience of passing through the waters of the Flood. (Verse 20) Noah, showing full faith in God, built the ark for the preservation of his family. (Hebrews 11:7) Similarly, by exercising faith in Jehovah God and his provision for salvation through Christ Jesus, people today can be saved from this present wicked world. They must also act on that faith. By repenting of sins, turning around from a wrong course, and making an unreserved dedication to Jehovah God in prayer, the request is made to God for a good conscience. But it is on the basis of Jesus’ sacrifice, and his resurrection by which he presented the value of that sacrifice to God in heaven, that sins are forgiven and salvation is possible.—1 Peter 3:22.

 

This talk today was designed to motivate people who are hesitating to get baptized.  People who study for years and never make a dedication.  They come to the meetings, feel we have the Truth, yet never do anything to dedicate their lives.  These are the people that are in danger of losing their life at Armageddon.  

 

The talk was not about baptism is necessary to survive Armageddon.  We are not going to start infant baptism or any other unscriptural act.  A 4-year-old should not be baptized unless they can make their own dedication to Jehovah and understand what that means.  We're not going to start baptizing masses of people before or during the Great Tribulation simply so the can survive because that wasn't what the talk said.  

 

The talk said there are 5 progressive steps that lead to baptism.  Taking in knowledge, strong faith, repentance, conversion and dedication.  We are not going to have people start skipping any step simply so they can be baptized.  That would be unscriptural.  We would be no better than Christendom.

 

We will grasp the real life only when we are perfect.  The real life is life everlasting in perfection on a paradise Earth.  To get a firm hold of the real life is to get a firm hold on life everlasting in perfection on a paradise Earth.