The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[Lee49]

3 minutes ago, Bob said:

You don’t tell them to refrain from driving with seatbelts because people will question the effectiveness of seatbelts and won’t use them or won’t drive. 

Many who do not wear seat belts rely on the air bag to save them, then they are jettisoned out the window after the air bag explodes in their face! 

[hatcheckgirl]

2 minutes ago, Bob said:

I see use the same logic with this vaccine. 

I'm going on what the science says.  You are contradicting that by saying the mask wearing, social distancing etc will "remove any incentive to getting the vaccine".  One does not replace the other.  We will need to practice these other measures for a long time before herd immunity is reached.  And that is a big IF, since newer vaccines are going to be needed to fight the harmful variants.  These are just first generation vaccines.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-27/your-top-coronavirus-vaccine-questions-answered/13094594

The major issue right now with COVID-19 is the fact that we are all not immune at all. This means that when the virus passes through our community, we are all sitting ducks — to either get infected and pass it on very efficiently and/or get very sick.

 

These waves of incredibly sick people put a strain on our healthcare system, so if we had a vaccine that effectively slows viral spread even a little bit and stops people from getting really sick, it is hugely worth it.

 

In terms of holding on, vaccines aren't a "one and done" medication. Right now, we are aiming to establish a level of immunity in people that protects them from disease with this first generation of vaccines. But we could build on that immunity by giving them the second generation of vaccines in the future, called a booster shot.

 

[Bob]

5 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

I'm going on what the science says.  You are contradicting that by saying the mask wearing, social distancing etc will "remove any incentive to getting the vaccine".  One does not replace the other.  We will need to practice these other measures for a long time before herd immunity is reached.  And that is a big IF, since newer vaccines are going to be needed to fight the harmful variants.  These are just first generation vaccines.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-27/your-top-coronavirus-vaccine-questions-answered/13094594

The major issue right now with COVID-19 is the fact that we are all not immune at all. This means that when the virus passes through our community, we are all sitting ducks — to either get infected and pass it on very efficiently and/or get very sick.

 

These waves of incredibly sick people put a strain on our healthcare system, so if we had a vaccine that effectively slows viral spread even a little bit and stops people from getting really sick, it is hugely worth it.

 

In terms of holding on, vaccines aren't a "one and done" medication. Right now, we are aiming to establish a level of immunity in people that protects them from disease with this first generation of vaccines. But we could build on that immunity by giving them the second generation of vaccines in the future, called a booster shot.

 

That’s fine. I have no issues with what you decide to do.

We are all free to make our own decisions here and I won’t criticize you for yours. 

[hatcheckgirl]

This is what is really sad:

 

The US COVID-19 death toll over the past year has now surpassed the number of Americans killed on battlegrounds in both World Wars and the Vietnam War.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-23/us-marks-grim-500000-coronavirus-deaths-milestone/13172840

 

How did it get that bad???  A year ago not one American had died.  Not one....

 

"The denial of basic scientific facts and the very presence of a deadly virus has extended right to the very end, even for some breathing their final moments."

[carlos]

2 hours ago, Bob said:

The fastest way to remove any incentive to getting the vaccine is to keep pushing masking and social distancing even after the vaccine. 

I can think of at least three important reasons to keep using masks and social distancing until after a considerable part of the population is vaccinated:

 

1. The vaccine prevents the virus from harming you, but we don't know yet if you can still pass it on to others. Even if are not infected, you can still carry the virus on your hands, your shoes, or other part of your body. You may be immunized but others aren't.

 

2. The vaccine is very effective but not 100 percent effective. Even some people who have been vaccinated can still catch the virus. Of course, the probability is low, but it can happen and that person might die.

 

3. People don't know if you have been vaccinated or not. Seeing others who don't use masks or ignore prevention measures encourages people to ignore those measures themselves.

 

 

[hatcheckgirl]

2 hours ago, Bob said:

No. This is what some politicians are saying in the US. It’s anti-scientific.

 

The entire point of the vaccine was to get rid of these measures. No point in taking a risk in getting the shot if nothing changes. The vaccine works. 

If you say something is anti-scientific, then please back it up with the science, or quote a source.  I appreciate we are all entitled to our opinions, and it is not my intention to reproach you for having your view.  Please forgive me if I have in any way done that.  I hope you see why I've commented.  Your opinions are one thing, but it's not actually what the science is telling us.

[Bob]

2 minutes ago, carlos said:

I can think of at least three important reasons to keep using masks and social distancing until after a considerable part of the population is vaccinated:

 

1. The vaccine prevents the virus from harming you, but we don't know yet if you can still pass it on to others. Even if are not infected, you can still carry the virus on your hands, your shoes, or other part of your body. You may be immunized but others aren't.

 

2. The vaccine is very effective but not 100 percent effective. Even some people who have been vaccinated can still catch the virus. Of course, the probability is low, but it can happen and that person might die.

 

3. People don't know if you have been vaccinated or not. Seeing others who don't use masks or ignore prevention measures encourages people to ignore those measures themselves.

 

 

Like I told our sister, I totally respect and understand your individual choices in the matter. 
 

No pushback from me. 

[Bob]

@carlos just one point.

 

You said it’s not 100 percent protective. Basically you appear to be saying we need a zero transmission standard before we can go back to normal. 

 

That’s not realistic. 
 

A person “might die” if I drive and get into an accident. So I shouldn’t drive?

 

I am not being a wise guy, just making sense out of what you’re suggesting. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Bob

[Mykyl]

36 minutes ago, Bob said:

Like I told our sister, I totally respect and understand your individual choices in the matter. 
 

No pushback from me. 

It may be an individual choice but the potential consequences of how we affect not just ourselves but also others should be taken into account. 

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/peace-happiness/physical-mental-health/pandemic-fatigue/

 

Quote

Continue to practice COVID-safe behavior

What the Bible says: “The stupid one is reckless and overconfident.”—Proverbs 14:16.

Why it matters: COVID-19 is deadly, and we risk infection if we let down our guard.

Try this: Regularly check reliable local guidelines and consider whether you are still being cautious. Focus on how your actions will affect you, your family, and others.

 

[Bob]

9 minutes ago, Mykyl said:

It may be an individual choice but the potential consequences of how we affect not just ourselves but also others should be taken into account. 

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/peace-happiness/physical-mental-health/pandemic-fatigue/

 

 

I suspect you didn’t read my post earlier on which I clearly and unequivocally stated I wear mask and distance when in company with those who request it. 
 

I appreciate the Bible verses, but they don’t apply to my particular actions. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Bob

[Mykyl]

24 minutes ago, Bob said:

I suspect you didn’t read my post earlier on which I clearly and unequivocally stated I wear mask and distance when in company with those who request it. 
 

I appreciate the Bible verses, but they don’t apply to my particular actions. 

I did read that. I also did not choose that scripture. I merely quoted the entire section from our website. It came under the heading Continue to practice COVID-safe behavior. I didnt pick and choose anything from it.

 

So are you saying that if they don't request you wear a mask or socially distance then the onus is on them from that moment on. If you happen to infect them its no longer your problem? As mentioned we should focus on how our actions affect others. 

 

If there is the possibility that you might for now infect someone who has currently not had the vaccine, then based on that quote from our own website how should we be treating others?

 

I'm not trying to tell you what to do. It may be coming across like that.

Just putting a reminder of what has been said on our website.

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Mykyl

[Shawnster]

Let's get back on topic and stop arguing the validity of masks and government directions.  We try to encourage each other and all forum members to respect Christ’s brothers direction on neutrality. Christ’s example and his brothers are telling us to not go down that well trodden path of critical commentary of Caesars blunders.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Shawnster

[Bob]

4 minutes ago, Mykyl said:

I did read that. 

 

Thank you. So it’s self explanatory. I respect the wishes of others.

 

Cut and dried. 

[Mykyl]

6 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Let's get back on topic and stop arguing the validity of masks and government directions.  We try to we encourage each other, and all forum members to respect Christ’s brothers direction on neutrality. Christ’s example and his brothers are telling us to not go down that well trodden path of critical commentary of Caesars blunders.

Sorry Shawn. 

[Sofia]

Subcutaneous vaccines don’t stop spreading the coronavirus 

that’s why the social distance and masks must continue 

Maybe it change if good intra nasal vaccines are developed

those can stop spreading the virus

i have academic scientific graduation

if I can help with any questions ask me please

[Shawnster]

Why does a subcutaneous vaccine not prevent transmission but a nasal vaccine will?

 

How is this different than the measles or smallpox vaccines that many of us have had?  Are we immune to measles or smallpox?

[Bob]

1 hour ago, Sofia said:

Subcutaneous vaccines don’t stop spreading the coronavirus 

that’s why the social distance and masks must continue 

Maybe it change if good intra nasal vaccines are developed

those can stop spreading the virus

i have academic scientific graduation

if I can help with any questions ask me please

Well, if I am correct, measles and small pox are vaccines injected into the muscles, and people with those vaccines no longer spread infectious virus (which helps make the population immune)

But I could be wrong. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Bob

[Sofia]

53 minutes ago, Bob said:

Well, if I am correct, measles and small pox are vaccines injected into the muscles, and people with those vaccines no longer spread infectious virus (which helps make the population immune)

But I could be wrong. 

but this is a CORONAVIRUS, not the same type as small pox or measles... it´s a totaly different virus.

[Sofia]

1 hour ago, Shawnster said:

Why does a subcutaneous vaccine not prevent transmission but a nasal vaccine will?

 

How is this different than the measles or smallpox vaccines that many of us have had?  Are we immune to measles or smallpox?

its been on many research papers published.

Intra nasal, you break the transmission right on the spot, activating the immune response at entry. Usually these vaccines come into effect after 24h.

the others by parenteric administration stimulate the " inner "immune system . So actualy the person may get sick and transmit the virus BEFORE the system knocks out the virus.

Trying to be simple without many science words

[Sofia]

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/intranasal-vaccines-may-be-more-30098/

 

- December 22, 2020 -

«Intranasal vaccines may be more effective alternatives to conventional injections«

 

here... you may understand a bit my saying.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Sofia

[runner92]

@Sofia please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my understanding of these COVID shots and why I'm saying no:

 

This shot they are giving out is not really a vaccine in the traditional sense. It's an mRNA gene therapy shot that has never been tested on humans before. It doesn't work like a traditional vaccine. It causes your body to create "spike proteins" that will proliferate when they come in contact with the pathogen. They expect your body to just continually make this. Proliferation of cells and proteins is what can lead to autoimmune disorders. 

 

Personally, based on all of the reading I have done, I think this was the purpose of the whole pandemic to begin with. They're running experiments. I really don't understand why some are so comfortable with it like it's just another vaccine. No, it's not. It's something else entirely, and my concern is people really don't know or understand what they are being given. 

[Shawnster]

19 minutes ago, Sofia said:

its been on many research papers published.

Intra nasal, you break the transmission right on the spot, activating the immune response at entry. Usually these vaccines come into effect after 24h.

the others by parenteric administration stimulate the " inner "immune system . So actualy the person may get sick and transmit the virus BEFORE the system knocks out the virus.

Trying to be simple without many science words

Would it be possible to eventually develop a nasal vaccine for covid? 

[Sofia]

26 minutes ago, runner92 said:

@Sofia please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my understanding of these COVID shots and why I'm saying no:

 

This shot they are giving out is not really a vaccine in the traditional sense. It's an mRNA gene therapy shot that has never been tested on humans before. It doesn't work like a traditional vaccine. It causes your body to create "spike proteins" that will proliferate when they come in contact with the pathogen. They expect your body to just continually make this. Proliferation of cells and proteins is what can lead to autoimmune disorders. 

 

Personally, based on all of the reading I have done, I think this was the purpose of the whole pandemic to begin with. They're running experiments. I really don't understand why some are so comfortable with it like it's just another vaccine. No, it's not. It's something else entirely, and my concern is people really don't know or understand what they are being given. 

In my scientific Knowledge the mRna vaccines are self limited ... because each mRNA has a code at the end that leads to it´s self destruction. These vaccines induce the cells that come in connetion with the nanoparticles containing this mRNA to produce the spike proteins. Once they are produced, the mRNA is destructed, the cell that produces the spike protein is also destructed with time... Other interpretations may not be science but speculation. If the body would produce spike proteins continuously **noneed for a second boost, right? 😉  

18 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Would it be possible to eventually develop a nasal vaccine for covid? 

 

 

Oh yes Shawn! In Portugal there´s a lab developing it. Even Merck lab who has developed the EBOLA vaccine, has the science to produce it. If you search Merck intra nasal vaccine coronavirus on google you find it 😉

 

 

 

** it seems the answer is covered. @runner92:

 If the body would produce spike proteins continuously no need for a second boost, right? 😉  

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Sofia

[runner92]

19 minutes ago, Sofia said:

In my scientific Knowledge the mRna vaccines are self limited ... because each mRNA has a code at the end that leads to it´s self destruction. These vaccines induce the cells that come in connetion with the nanoparticles containing this mRNA to produce the spike proteins. Once they are produced, the mRNA is destructed, the cell that produces the spike protein is also destructed with time... Other interpretations may not be science but speculation. If the body would produce spike proteins continuously **noneed for a second boost, right? 😉  

 

 

Oh yes Shawn! In Portugal there´s a lab developing it. Even Merck lab who has developed the EBOLA vaccine, has the science to produce it. If you search Merck intra nasal vaccine coronavirus on google you find it 😉

 

 

 

** it seems the answer is covered. @runner92:

 If the body would produce spike proteins continuously no need for a second boost, right? 😉  

 

Let's just hope they truly self destruct and don't proliferate to induce other problems. I'm going to wait this out. 

[Sofia]

6 minutes ago, runner92 said:

Let's just hope they truly self destruct and don't proliferate to induce other problems. I'm going to wait this out. 

yes.

On my scientific background I do believe so.