Has Sweden Found the Right Solution to the Coronavirus?

[Lee49]

"Part of that result is just poor test samples. People really resist having a toothpick diameter plastic rod stick through their nose into the back of their throat. It’s uncomfortable. And those doing it are often also uncomfortable. "

One word to describe - HORRIBLE!

https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/coronavirus-testing.html

 

[Guri]

1 hour ago, BenJepthah said:

Part of that result is just poor test samples. People really resist having a toothpick diameter plastic rod stick through their nose into the back of their throat. It’s uncomfortable. And those doing it are often also uncomfortable. 

I agree with you. Its not just the poor test sample but the people who claim are professionals have no clue what they are doing. In reality, even the tiny bit of the swab from the mouth or a drop or blood MUST be enough to do the test.  

[LeslieDean]

Several weeks ago I spent all of a Sunday afternoon and night testing for the Covid-19 by nasal swabs.  45 swabs were done and it took and it took approx 8hrs.  We had two different bags of swabs from two different manufacturers to use from.  One set directions said to insert up nose as far as tear duct and turn it in circles for 3-5 seconds.  The screaming from these elderly residents was quite pitiful.  Many said 'you stabbed me in my brain'.  The second set of directions said tilt head back slightly. Stick swab straight in to back of throat/palatte.  Leave in place for 5-6 seconds then rotate for a total of 10-12 seconds, remove and place in labeled vial.  I was exhausted by the time this was over because many of the patients suffer from dementia and had no idea why we  were  'torturing ' them.  Some fought,  many cried and were frightened.  I got a lot of good practice and I can say the second set of instructions felt 'right'.  It is hard to say when something is new and you get conflicting directions from the manufacturers about which was correct way.  But I felt the second way was more accurate.

I was very happy that most of the residents have short term memory problems so the next day when they saw me most were well and good.  There were a few who gave me the side eye. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by LeslieDean

[Barbllm]

A couple more points to consider:

 

- Part of that approach relies on having access to one of the world's best-functioning health-care systems. At no stage did Sweden see a real shortage of medical equipment or hospital capacity, and tents set up as emergency care facilities around the country have mostly remained empty.

 

- More than half of Swedish households are single-person, making social distancing easier to carry out. More people work from home than anywhere else in Europe, and everyone has access to fast Internet, which helps large chunks of the workforce stay productive away from the office.

- Sweden has super strong unions that can make demands to protect the workers.  Workers that get sick don't have to worry about losing their healthcare, or not being able to provide for their family because of the generous unemployment benefits they're entitled to.

 

[bogartd]

I got a covid 19 swab test and it was nothing like what is shown in the video above. And they most certainly didn't ( rotate) it in my nasal cavity for 15 seconds! I wonder if thats why my test came back negative...😒

Edited April 23, 2020 by bogartd
Left out a letter in a word

[humble bumble bee]

Coronavirus: What's going wrong in Sweden's care homes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836

 

Care home residents account for nearly half of deaths linked to Covid-19 in Sweden. Some healthcare workers believe an institutional reluctance to admit patients to hospital is costing lives.

 

Lili Sedghi's father, Reza, was not seen by a doctor on the day he died from coronavirus, at his care home in northern Stockholm.

A nurse told her he'd had a morphine shot in the hours before he passed away, but he was not given oxygen, nor did staff call an ambulance. "No-one was there and he died alone," says Ms Sedghi. "It's so unfair."

 

Most of the 3,698 people who have died from coronavirus in Sweden so far were over 70, despite the fact that the country said shielding risk groups was its top priority.

 

Heart wrenching  : <

Edited May 19, 2020 by humblebumblebee

[BenJepthah]

1 hour ago, humblebumblebee said:

Coronavirus: What's going wrong in Sweden's care homes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836

 

Care home residents account for nearly half of deaths linked to Covid-19 in Sweden. Some healthcare workers believe an institutional reluctance to admit patients to hospital is costing lives.

 

Lili Sedghi's father, Reza, was not seen by a doctor on the day he died from coronavirus, at his care home in northern Stockholm.

A nurse told her he'd had a morphine shot in the hours before he passed away, but he was not given oxygen, nor did staff call an ambulance. "No-one was there and he died alone," says Ms Sedghi. "It's so unfair."

 

Most of the 3,698 people who have died from coronavirus in Sweden so far were over 70, despite the fact that the country said shielding risk groups was its top priority.

 

Heart wrenching  : <

It’s probably due to the environment inside the buildings. Once the virus gets in a building it’s hard to get rid of. The same has been seen in the US. 

[BenJepthah]

On 4/23/2020 at 12:35 AM, bogartd said:

I got a covid 19 swab test and it was nothing like what is shown in the video above. And they most certainly didn't ( rotate) it in my nasal cavity for 15 seconds! I wonder if thats why my test came back negative...😒

Certainly. The video is correct. If it didn’t hurt it will not work.

[BenJepthah]

Sweden should not rightly be compared statistically with countries other than the “ Nordic states”.  It is also noteworthy that many businesses in Sweden have reportedly closed despite their being no orders to do so. People have social distanced without being told they are required to do so. In actuality the Swede model is probably not all that different in actual practice. 

[humble bumble bee]

Sweden doesn't have the right solution

It really upset me when the elderly are not cared for properly not just in Sweden but all over the world

Jehovah will take note

 

Sweden to investigate care homes

]

A national review of medical treatment in care homes has been announced in Sweden. It follows concerns - reported by the BBC on Tuesday - that some regions have not automatically made oxygen available for patients.

 

Care home residents account for nearly half of deaths linked to Covid-19 in Sweden.

The government's health and social care inspectorate (IVO) said it had carried out preliminary checks on 1,000 homes in April and found “serious deficiencies” in the care given to one in 10 residents.

 

“What we have seen and what has been reported in the media is serious,” said IVO director general Sofia Wallström in a statement.

Further checks are planned at all 1,700 care homes for elderly residents across Sweden during the first two weeks of June.

[Cool Cat]

So before the rest of my post I would just like to say that if the media reports are true, that over 65s are not even being given a chance of oxygen if they need it and are just being left to die with no treatment then that is awful and I in no way agree that is a valid option for a country especially with Sweden's health care ability. I also only promote Gods Kingdom as the real solution for any of this worlds problems as I am sure everyone here does.

 

I do however think their  lockdown or rather lack of it is interesting. Some of their scientists believe there is no stopping this virus from eventually reaching everyone and that a lockdown is just delaying the enevitable. The information from one doctor in this video:- 

 

 

I found quite interesting. He made quite a few interesting points that made me think that in countries like here in the uk that we are in this for the long haul due to the decision to try to stop the virus. He mentioned he thought that initially the UKs idea of herd immunity was good but they bottled due to political pressure. He also mentioned about the multiple giant hospitals that were built mostly by the UKs army but are now empty instead of helping with dealing with the virus.

 

Sweden's decision to not have lockdown and not cripple their economy was brave but may of been the better of a load of bad options. At the moment many countries are moving towards the Swedish model of having less social restrictions. According to some doctors lockdown or no lockdown the result will be pretty much the same come the end, except some countries will be economically crippled along with a lot of deaths from other illnesses that were not treated due to the concentration on treating the virus.

 

Many countries decided quite quickly to go into lockdown but did not consider how we get out of lockdown. We are all moving towards the Swedish model slowly (except hopefully their elderly care situation). This illness is going to be with us for a long long time some say the end of 2021 but that's only if they find a vaccine and for some that is a big IF.......

Edited May 21, 2020 by MentalProject

[BenJepthah]

As I have come to understand. In the more severe cases oxygen supplementation makes no difference in either outcome or comfort level for the patient because the virus effects the ability of the individual red blood cells to carry oxygen .  This results in a horrible condition we see in COPD patients called air hunger.

[Tortuga]

https://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Sweden-herd-immunity-experiment-backfires-covid-15289437.php

 

Initially, Sweden saw death rates from COVID-19 that were similar to other European nations that had closed down their economies. But now the Scandinavian nation’s daily death toll per 1 million people is 8.71 compared to the United States’ 4.59, according to online publication Our World in Data. Sweden's mortality rate is the highest in Europe.

 

It appears their plan isn't working. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Bro Richard

[pnutts]

14 minutes ago, Bro Richard said:

 

It appears their plan isn't working. 

It has been reported in other news articles before - but ....

 

It is about money and peoples "rights". Sounds like the squirrel problem we have at our apt bdg.

The animal rights people had laws enacted that it is illegal to kill, trap or transport squirrels away from the bdg area.

 

Maybe they should pay for all the damage these critters cause - to vehicles, buildings, peoples possessions.

Same as those who insist on their "rights" to do what ever they want. meet together, party, beaches, etc.

It is their "right" to enjoy themselves no matter how it affects others.

 

There was an article about a man in the US who thought it was all a bunch of baloney - till he got it, gave it to his wife and son - and not mild cases either.

Edited May 24, 2020 by pnutts

[Thesauron]

4 minutes ago, pnutts said:

It is about money and peoples "rights".

It is about the law, the constitution in fact, and ancient tradition. It guarantees the freedom of movement for Swedish citizens. It isn’t very easily changed. At the moment, nobody really knows what route is the best. We’ll see in a few years. Something else, it isn’t really all of Sweden that has a problem. It is clearly only the largest city, Stockholm. It can be analysed to death why that is, I guess.

Take Copenhagen, for example. During regular circumstances, many Swedes travel from the Swedish county of Skåne to their work in Copenhagen. You’d think that Skåne would be hit equally hard as Copenhagen, or harder, but really Copenhagen has been much more badly affected. And still, they want to limit people travelling from mainly Skåne. 

[BenJepthah]

2 hours ago, Bro Richard said:

https://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Sweden-herd-immunity-experiment-backfires-covid-15289437.php

 

Initially, Sweden saw death rates from COVID-19 that were similar to other European nations that had closed down their economies. But now the Scandinavian nation’s daily death toll per 1 million people is 8.71 compared to the United States’ 4.59, according to online publication Our World in Data. Sweden's mortality rate is the highest in Europe.

 

It appears their plan isn't working. 

I look at 9 people dieing per million vs 5 per million and wonder : what else are people dieing from in the same period.  Does the Death toll actually balance out in say, strokes , heart failure , or overdoses ? Due to the choice to have stay at home orders activated.

[ChocoBro]

Can anybody explain what has been going on in Sweden in the past two days? 

 

They usually had about 500-600 daily confirmed cases during ordinary weekdays. Then suddenly, June 3rd a huge spike of 2.200 cases (an immediate rise of 5%) and yesterday, another 1.100 cases.

 

This certainly can't only be due to delay in reporting, are they carrying out more tests?

I can't find any information whatsoever.

[PGgenius]

On 6/5/2020 at 9:24 PM, ChocoBro said:

Can anybody explain what has been going on in Sweden in the past two days? 

 

They usually had about 500-600 daily confirmed cases during ordinary weekdays. Then suddenly, June 3rd a huge spike of 2.200 cases (an immediate rise of 5%) and yesterday, another 1.100 cases.

 

This certainly can't only be due to delay in reporting, are they carrying out more tests?

I can't find any information whatsoever.

The weekly trade covered the progress of herd protection in Stockholm - in May it was to be achieved. The mathematician calculated new models of how already a 40 percent illness would be enough when the numbers didn’t start to rise.

Antibody research released last week destroyed dreams. Even in Stockholm, only 7.3 percent would have contracted corona. The emperor had no clothes and no resistance in the kingdom.

A poster on the restaurant door urges citizens to wash their hands.
A poster on the restaurant door urges citizens to wash their hands.

The health authority issued a statement that achieving herd protection was never Sweden's goal.

What was it then?

“We have the same goal as the others: to save lives and make our health care system work. We just do it a little differently, ”Foreign Minister Linde said on TV.

The cost of that habit is more than 4,200 dead.

And in the opinion of the state epidemiologist, nothing could have been done differently.

The emergence of HERD PROTECTION against covid-19 virus was a reasonable hypothesis. It was reasonable to assume that it would work like other viruses, that patients would receive antibodies and that protection would arise.

However, there was Russian roulette to throw at it, as happened in Sweden, and one did not even believe the signs of the thesis faltering. Collective self-deception.

The disease was allowed to spread three times as much as in Finland by gentle means, coveting herd immunity, but as a result, the death toll is more than ten times higher.

"
 In Sweden, was there too much reliance on citizens' common sense and self-direction?
Many people of working age have died in Korona, especially those with an immigrant background, but the biggest deaths have been in nursing homes. That's what Tegnell has lamented - blaming the changes made in the care of the elderly in recent decades.

The protection has been wrong. It has been reported that three-quarters of cases would be in the care of the elderly. A carefree norm population has taken the virus with them to nursing homes while working there.

WHAT then SWEDEN did differently from Finland?

In Sweden, restaurants have been open, as have schools, but the infectivity of children is unlikely to have solved the game.

"
 The People's Home also revealed its complacency.
The authorities have made recommendations quite similar to those in Finland on safety distances and hygiene, but the Swedes have not taken the message seriously.

When the authorities in Finland banned the gathering of ten people, few in Helsinki have dared to invite a couple of acquaintances to the village. Stockholm’s cityscape has seemed as vibrant as ever. The people have been careless with the recommendations.

It may be that the opening of restaurants was not only a factor in increasing interaction, but also a message that the virus does not need to be taken seriously. According to press reports, Tegnell himself has been seen on a beer terrace on Stureplan. In Sweden, was there too much reliance on citizens' common sense and self-direction?

Arrogance. One reason for the reluctance to make radical solutions to shut down society in time was probably the economy, but the People’s Home also revealed its complacency.

When the last war was fought in 1809, crisis thinking is not in order. Couldn't believe it was true and had to act. We still have the Security of Supply Center.

"In Finland, it is still known what the crisis means and that the state really exists so as not to arouse the Cossack laughter," summed up one historian.

The self-awareness of the old superpower does not help. In the 17th century, the whole of the Baltics was Sweden, and the hackers went to war until Prague. Prosperous Sweden is used to being an enviable welfare state. There are Abba and Roxette, Henkkamaukka and Ikea. It is better known there.

And now - 4,000 crowns dead.

“Maybe it’s time to put prestige aside and learn from other countries,” thought Aftonbladet’s columnist for the week.

 

https://www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000006523691.html

[ChocoBro]

15 minutes ago, PGgenius said:

 

Antibody research released last week destroyed dreams. Even in Stockholm, only 7.3 percent would have contracted corona. The emperor had no clothes and no resistance in the kingdom.

 

Actually, that number of 7.3 percent dates back all the way to end of April... since that time, one and a half months have passed.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/21/just-7-per-cent-of-stockholm-had-covid-19-antibodies-by-end-of-april-study-sweden-coronavirus

 

Your post is full of emotions, devoid of many facts. I'm leaving this forum. See you all when this rubbish is over.

[ChocoBro]

Sweden facts: Immunity keeps going up, confirmed cases are constant and actually peaked last weak, but death rates are going down. 

 

Other countries like Japan also did a lot better than other countries despite only a loose lockdown. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-22/did-japan-just-beat-the-virus-without-lockdowns-or-mass-testing

 

They say that maybe Japan was lucky enough to have a different, less dangerous strain. The virus seems to mutate pretty fast.

 

Who knows what is really going on. Still, all the Sweden-bashing in the media is clearly biased, and it makes you wonder who stands to benefit from it.

[PGgenius]

The New York Times has commented on Swedish corona action. President Donald Trump has also commented on the situation in the country.

When the coronavirus actually began to spread in Europe in the spring of 2020, Sweden's response to the situation was exceptional not only on a European scale but also on a global scale. The country's government imposed almost no restrictions on everyday life for its citizens, unlike in other Nordic countries, for example.

"That's how it happened: thousands more people have died than in neighboring countries that have imposed closures, but the Swedish economy has done a little better," writes The New York Times.

The title of the story is “Sweden has become a warning example to the world”.

“They achieved literally nothing,” commented Jacob F. Kirkegaard, an international economist.

- It is a self-inflicted wound and they have no financial benefits.

Relatively more deaths than in the US
The magazine compares the Swedish coronation rate with that of the United States. Proportionally, Sweden has 40 percent more people dying from the virus than the United States, where there have been 129,000 deaths to date.

Correspondingly, compared to Finland, there are seven times more deaths in Sweden. According to the WHO, 5,420 people have died of the disease in Sweden.

The economic outlook in Sweden is no better than elsewhere. The Swedish central bank expects the country's economy to shrink by 4.5 per cent this year. Unemployment rose to 9 percent in May.

By comparison, in Denmark the central bank forecasts an economic downturn of 4.1% this year. The unemployment rate in May was 5.6. In Denmark, only one-sixth of what in Sweden has died from coronavirus disease in relation to population.
A slight deflection in front of the corona is also noticeable in Sweden. The popular television summer program, Allsång på Skanssen, which will also be shown in Finland on Tuesdays, will be shown on empty bench rows this summer.

[Old]

On 6/6/2020 at 12:20 PM, ChocoBro said:

 

...

Your post is full of emotions, devoid of many facts. I'm leaving this forum. See you all when this rubbish is over.

No, no-o-o, not again!  

[PGgenius]

I say what i say and what i tell your's it'ts true. what anybody   needs more ?
 

[M.J.]

On 6/10/2020 at 5:20 AM, ChocoBro said:

Still, all the Sweden-bashing in the media is clearly biased, and it makes you wonder who stands to benefit from it.

Who stands to benefit from it?

[BenJepthah]

10 minutes ago, M.J. said:

Who stands to benefit from it?

Well , it’s an extension of Trump Criticism. If Sweden’s approach was correct then Trumps assertions look more correct. The media can’t have that.