Do you have difficulty saving money? Have you tried Microsavings?

[Beggar for the Spirit]

In recent years, there has been variety of new apps/websites designed to help people who have difficulty saving money or who would just like to save a little more than they are currently saving. These "Microsavings" apps/websites are designed to help people save more without drastically changing their habits, only taking small amounts of money(like your small "change" from purchases) and depositing your "change" into a designated savings or investment account.

 

So I was curious if any of you are using such apps and what your opinion/experience has been? Or if anyone has any good information or suggestions it would be appreciated. 1 popular app I am aware of is "Acorns". Also I understand there are also some apps for very small investing that can bring some extra savings, so if anyone has any experiences or suggestions this would be welcomed also, thanks. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Lewis]

I actually have a system with my bank that every time I use my debit card to make a purchase, a dollar gets transferred from my chequing to a specialized savings account that I will never use in my day to day banking. So it just accumulates and I dont even think about it until one day I just remember that I have that. Because how often do we use our debit cards on a daily basis. And plus its an account that I dont use, its just accumulates all the transfers from every debit purchases that I make. You can set whatever limit you want, I just have mine set at a dollar per every purchase I made with my debit card.

[New World Explorer]

Savings is a priority in my financial planning. 

I like putting 5%-10% of my monthly income into my savings account. (which yields small interest) 

It's working so far, for many years.

It's interesting that recent letter to BOE (our Branch, not sure if that was worldwide) encouraged Savings, and stated that many Australians fall short of doing that. 

The letter specifically mentioned $10,000 as "basic" figure to attain, and pointed out that many Aussies do not even achieve that. 

[Ludwika]

I could imagine that for many families with young children, and struggling in today's economy, the prospect of saving $10,000 might be a pipe dream. They are more worried about keeping the roof over their heads and food on the table. School fees are an increasing burden too, not to mention uniforms and other clothing costs. I'm very grateful that my children are now adults, and in a position where they can provide for their families, but not everyone is as fortunate. Realistically, being in the truth has it's own costs too. Not that anyone resents that, it's a privilege to serve Jehovah, to contribute to the brotherhood, put petrol in our cars for the ministry etc, it's simply a fact. Even in countries such as Australia or New Zealand, or England or America, people are not always in a good situation. But if we can have a savings plan, of course it's wise to "make friends of unrighteous riches!" 

[Beggar for the Spirit]

2 hours ago, New World Explorer said:

It's interesting that recent letter to BOE (our Branch, not sure if that was worldwide) encouraged Savings, and stated that many Australians fall short of doing that. 

The letter specifically mentioned $10,000 as "basic" figure to attain, and pointed out that many Aussies do not even achieve that. 

Thanks Greg for your comments. Yes, with rare and devastating events happening like this recent pandemic, we have no idea what the future could bring before the Great Tribulation. For example, due to potential financial crisis, disasters, etc, jobs could be more difficult to find or keep. And/or prices on food, gas, etc, could suddenly skyrocket. So it is wise and shrewd to be as at least somewhat prepared. Jehovah has told us that “. . .wisdom is a protection just as money is a protection. . .” (EC 7:12) So lots of wisdom and some "money"(some savings) can help us in tough times. Plus, I was thinking about how 1 of our most important goals is to try and imitate Jehovah, and what is Jehovah's primary quality? "Love". So if I want to imitate our Father, I want to show unselfish love, and an example of this would be not just saving some money for myself, but for my brothers/sisters who are in need or will be in need.

 

A dear friend/brother I know was laid off from his job months ago due to the pandemic, his family before that was just barely making it. I sent him "some" money last month to try and help, it wasn't much though. He was very appreciative but if I could have given him more or if I had more savings so that in the next months I could continue helping him and his family, it might help sustain them for a little while until he can find some work. So money can be a "protection", not just for ourselves, but for our brothers/sisters. 

So I was trying to think of some ways to save some extra money that is not too difficult and could provide some added "protection" while of course primarily focusing on spiritual matters. So this "Microsavings" idea and/or some small account investing might provide some added help/protection as we try to,

Quote

“. . .look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others. . .” (PHP 2:4)

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Beggar for the Spirit

[M.J.]

On 5/8/2020 at 12:58 AM, New World Explorer said:

Savings is a priority in my financial planning. 

I like putting 5%-10% of my monthly income into my savings account. (which yields small interest) 

It's working so far, for many years.

It's interesting that recent letter to BOE (our Branch, not sure if that was worldwide) encouraged Savings, and stated that many Australians fall short of doing that. 

The letter specifically mentioned $10,000 as "basic" figure to attain, and pointed out that many Aussies do not even achieve that. 

I'm very surprised the Branch would mention a specific figure for the brothers to aspire to...it doesn't sound like something the branch tells you to do. They are usually very careful about speaking on principles and allowing it to be flexible for your individual circumstances. If someone is pioneering and on a tight budget,  but the Org advises saving 10k, would they be tempted to readjust their goals?

 

Savings accounts worked very well in the past when interest rates were higher. Rates now are so low, that its almost nothing.  Savings is still great, but having a diversified portfolio is always recommended. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. And don't put all your money in one bank. Also, try credit unions.

Edited May 12, 2020 by M.J.
clarification

[M.J.]

On 5/7/2020 at 10:21 PM, Beggar for the Spirit said:

In recent years, there has been variety of new apps/websites designed to help people who have difficulty saving money or who would just like to save a little more than they are currently saving. These "Microsavings" apps/websites are designed to help people save more without drastically changing their habits, only taking small amounts of money(like your small "change" from purchases) and depositing your "change" into a designated savings or investment account.

 

So I was curious if any of you are using such apps and what your opinion/experience has been? Or if anyone has any good information or suggestions it would be appreciated. 1 popular app I am aware of is "Acorns". Also I understand there are also some apps for very small investing that can bring some extra savings, so if anyone has any experiences or suggestions this would be welcomed also, thanks. 

I know you asked for small savings,  but if you really want to tighten the belt, stop spending ALL excesses. Committ to only spending on food, and basic essential monthly bills,  such as electric, water,  meds, etc. If you cut your spending to bare basics, you'll see how much you really have left over.

 

On the other hand, you can take out your first chunk of income for savings, and then whatever is left over is for you to spend.

[BLEmom]

I have the $1 per debit card transaction too. Between the husband and I, we save $40-$50 per month. Sometimes a bit more. We don’t get to vacation much so this is our vacation money. I have a separate savings for emergencies. I’m only putting $20 a month in for that. Auto transferred. 🤷🏻‍♀️ But i also have a credit card with the same bank. Every time I spend $5000 in charges, they put $50 in my savings account.  I use that card for online purchases, auto charges, gas and groceries a lot. 
We have debt we are working on so I put more on that than the savings. 
Both of the savings accounts serve as back up accounts in case of overdraft charges. I keep one checking account for regular stuff and one exclusive for bill paying. I learned to do that the hard way. Lol So I have a backup for each account. 
Not the most ideal situation but we keep working on it the best we can. 
Ive heard of people using apps but to me it’s just as easy to have an auto transfer set up for each time you get paid. 

[New World Explorer]

7 hours ago, M.J. said:

I'm very surprised the Branch would mention a specific figure for the brothers to aspire to...it doesn't sound like something the branch tells you to do.

The amount was mentioned as an example.  (many lack any savings) 

The letter was about our readiness to assist others, perhaps even other congregations if the need arises (letter to elders only) 

The Branch does not tell us to have extra savings, but recommends such path. 

I personally take financial planning very seriously, and I see the wisdom of having savings. 

[M.J.]

9 minutes ago, New World Explorer said:

The amount was mentioned as an example.  (many lack any savings) 

The letter was about our readiness to assist others, perhaps even other congregations if the need arises (letter to elders only) 

The Branch does not tell us to have extra savings, but recommends such path. 

I personally take financial planning very seriously, and I see the wisdom of having savings. 

I've heard many brothers express that when the Org gives a suggestion, they take it as gospel. I'm not saying they should,  but they do.

[New World Explorer]

For now, Americans are building cash reserves to help them get through the storm.

The savings rate in the United States climbed from 8% in February to 13.1% in March. That was the highest savings rate since November 1981. And given the disastrous economic news, the savings rate will likely go even higher when April statistics are released.

"When you have a depression-like shock, households will increase savings," said Brusuelas, who called the March spike in savings rate "insane."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/12/investing/jobs-coronavirus-consumer-spending-debt/index.html

[New World Explorer]

14 hours ago, M.J. said:

I've heard many brothers express that when the Org gives a suggestion, they take it as gospel. I'm not saying they should,  but they do.

Unfortunately it happens.

But when it comes to savings, it’s good to engage practical wisdom in high gear. 
If genuine assistance is necessary, those with good savings can really make a change. 

[M.J.]

18 hours ago, New World Explorer said:

For now, Americans are building cash reserves to help them get through the storm.

The savings rate in the United States climbed from 8% in February to 13.1% in March. That was the highest savings rate since November 1981. And given the disastrous economic news, the savings rate will likely go even higher when April statistics are released.

"When you have a depression-like shock, households will increase savings," said Brusuelas, who called the March spike in savings rate "insane."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/12/investing/jobs-coronavirus-consumer-spending-debt/index.html

This is referring to the percent people save.  I was referring to the interest rate given by the bank, which is almost 0. With stocks you can make 2-4% in a few hours, but with some risk.

Edited May 14, 2020 by M.J.

[computerwiz]

This is an old topic, but I'm new to the forums and am exploring around...

 

I've had a wide-range of experience with money systems...Acorns, Wealthfront, Robinhood, M1Finance.  And then crypto systems....Nexo, Voyager, CoinSeed, Bittrex, Binance, YoBit, etc. etc.

 

Far as micro-savings go, with Acorns, it wasn't worth it.  Didn't do well in the markets, and the monthly fee pretty much ate the profit.  Waste of time (if you're looking to make money).  If you're just looking to save, I guess that's one way to do it....  

 

From all my experience, I'd recommend Wealthfront for building savings (at minimum, you can do $100/month or $100 whenever you have it; ask me for a referral code if interested) since they make about 10% APY with my money.  And if you're up for getting into cryptocurrency, I recommend Voyager (once again, ask me for referral if interested) since you can choose multiple coins and at a minimum, put in $10/month per coin.  You can even choose a stablecoin (which doesn't go up or down in value) and get 9% APY on it.

 

Wealthfront has insurance.  Voyager does not (so it's a little risky).  But both sure beat trying to get anything out of a savings account.  

 

For my own personal budget, I have all my necessities in a spreadsheet with reasonable expectations (food, leisure, etc).  And the rest is divvied up between traditional savings, Wealthfront, and Voyager.  All on auto-pilot.  Not sure if you got your situation figured out Beggar for the Spirit, but I also designed a Word document that can help someone who is trying to budget to think about all the little things they have to plan for and spend money on, so they can then figure out how to cut-back and how much they can save.

[BLEmom]

16 hours ago, computerwiz said:

This is an old topic, but I'm new to the forums and am exploring around...

 

I've had a wide-range of experience with money systems...Acorns, Wealthfront, Robinhood, M1Finance.  And then crypto systems....Nexo, Voyager, CoinSeed, Bittrex, Binance, YoBit, etc. etc.

 

Far as micro-savings go, with Acorns, it wasn't worth it.  Didn't do well in the markets, and the monthly fee pretty much ate the profit.  Waste of time (if you're looking to make money).  If you're just looking to save, I guess that's one way to do it....  

 

From all my experience, I'd recommend Wealthfront for building savings (at minimum, you can do $100/month or $100 whenever you have it; ask me for a referral code if interested) since they make about 10% APY with my money.  And if you're up for getting into cryptocurrency, I recommend Voyager (once again, ask me for referral if interested) since you can choose multiple coins and at a minimum, put in $10/month per coin.  You can even choose a stablecoin (which doesn't go up or down in value) and get 9% APY on it.

 

Wealthfront has insurance.  Voyager does not (so it's a little risky).  But both sure beat trying to get anything out of a savings account.  

 

For my own personal budget, I have all my necessities in a spreadsheet with reasonable expectations (food, leisure, etc).  And the rest is divvied up between traditional savings, Wealthfront, and Voyager.  All on auto-pilot.  Not sure if you got your situation figured out Beggar for the Spirit, but I also designed a Word document that can help someone who is trying to budget to think about all the little things they have to plan for and spend money on, so they can then figure out how to cut-back and how much they can save.

So my son who is 18 really wants to earn passive money.  Would you recommend both of these apps for that?  What would you recommend more for someone starting out?  He has a good bit of savings. More than me actually lol.  He’s been wanting to talk about it with someone knowledgeable. 

[Dages]

Cryptos aren't always safe. That's a big business, lot of scams

 

[computerwiz]

59 minutes ago, Dages said:

Cryptos aren't always safe. That's a big business, lot of scams

 

Absolutely correct.  And on the same note, you get scams in your email and phone as well.  But that doesn't dissuade you from using either, does it?  Anyone getting into cryptocurrency needs to do careful research, and ask someone they trust.  It's a legit thing...I paid off my wife's car with the profit I made in crypto.  

 

BLEmom

To answer your question, I'd recommend Wealthfront (and I'll post my referral in a moment so he can get up to $5,000 managed for free).  Now...hope you like to read:

 

If your son is thinking "passive money" to where he won't have to work...think again.  There's countless YouTube stars that promote that, but it all involves either 1. a lot of upfront work or 2. a lot of money saved.  So make sure your son understands he still has to work no matter what "passive income" strategy he takes up.  Just look at all those landlords that got "passive income" from renting property.  Most have been in a bind since COVID, thanks to the eviction moratorium.  So...the goal is to enhance savings, not avoiding work.  

 

With that disclaimer out of the way, let's talk about Wealthfront.

 

Wealthfront plays the stock market for you in a safe way.  It's not without "risk", but as long as you use money that you can wait on, it's fine.  For example, in 2018, my account was down 9.15%.  If I sold, I would have lost money.  But by hanging onto it, the very next year, I was up 23.70%.  So that 9% down was completely washed away.  I've been with Wealthfront since 2016, and in total, they have made 88.65% with my money.  So in about 5 years, they nearly doubled my money.  Show me a bank that can do that!!!  

 

Now...here's the strategy.  Tell him don't dump his savings into Wealthfront.  The stock market is a fickle beast.  It is much better, and much smarter, to put money over time.  Even though Wealthfront does a good job, you can help them do a better job by putting a little money over time instead of all at once.  That's called Dollar Cost Averaging (whole 'nother discussion).  So, let's say he's got $10,000 in savings.  He could move $250 on the 1st & 15th (that's an option you can select for auto-deposits) every month into Wealthfront, to slowly but quickly move his savings over.  But I wouldn't move it all.  Move about half.  You want some money you can quickly access, and some money you can wait on.  So when he gets to about half, he can adjust his auto-deposits as needed.

 

Now...when you open up a Wealthfront account, it's going to ask you questions to help guide you to the correct account.  When it asks you "what would you do if the market crashes", you respond "buy more stock".  Buy the dip!!!  You want to answer the questions in such a way that you are not worried about crashes, and you have time on your side (you can wait till things improve).  That will get you the "riskiest" strategy (which is what I have, a risk rating of 9 out of 10).  More risk = more reward.  With him being young, he can afford that (he can wait for the market to improve before he needs his money).  Someone who's about to retire and need that money should play it safer...

 

Now for fees....if you use my referral, they'll manage $5,000 for free.  Beyond that, it's a 0.25% APY fee.  When they make 10% APY with your money, that fee won't even be felt.  But just wanted to give full disclosure.  Also, it's a minimum of $500 to open an investment account.

 

I think that's enough info for now...I really could write a book on managing money.  

 

My referral: https://www.wealthfront.com/c/affiliates/invited/AFFB-37TS-C96C-3UUN

 

Any other questions, feel free to ask.

Edited September 4, 2021 by computerwiz

[M.J.]

4 hours ago, BLEmom said:

So my son who is 18 really wants to earn passive money.  Would you recommend both of these apps for that?  What would you recommend more for someone starting out?  He has a good bit of savings. More than me actually lol.  He’s been wanting to talk about it with someone knowledgeable. 

It sounds like he wants investment options. It depends on what he likes and feels comfortable with:

 

-Real estate: Rental property (He would need to learn about ROI). Or Flipping houses. Or buying tax deeds/liens straight from the county.

-Stock Market

-Crypto

-Business Venture (Lending Tree, etc)

 

Ps. Be aware that MOST small businesses fail. So be very careful. 

[Brother_Bliss]

22 hours ago, computerwiz said:

Far as micro-savings go, with Acorns, it wasn't worth it.  Didn't do well in the markets, and the monthly fee pretty much ate the profit.  Waste of time (if you're looking to make money).  If you're just looking to save, I guess that's one way to do it....  

Interesting. I love Acorns, and have had much success with it....

 

https://share.acorns.com/dismalbliss

 

I have it both the Invest account and the Later account set up. Both are set to Moderately Agressive. For my Invest account, I have round ups turned on, set at 2x the round up, and connected to about 5 bank accounts, including my personal and business. In my Later account (an SEP IRA) I am automatically pulling $50 per week into it. My all time gains since opening these accounts is 26.77% which is leaps and bounds over the 0.5% a local bank savings account pays. 

 

The monthly fee is $1 per account.

 

What I like about it is that I can set it and forget it, and it just grows and grows. The stock market is a foriegn language to me, but with Acorns I am investing on autopilot and will be sitting pretty well if I retire before armageddon.

 

https://share.acorns.com/dismalbliss

 

I also bought $100 worth of Bitcoin a few years ago. It's worth $400 today. I also bought $100 of Ethereum recently and have made a little bit. Crypto is more of a gamble so I am hesitant to risk a lot with it. I tried to jump on the Dogecoin bandwagon, and it went the other direction and I'm in the red.  

[computerwiz]

22 minutes ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

Interesting. I love Acorns, and have had much success with it....

 

 

I also bought $100 worth of Bitcoin a few years ago. It's worth $400 today. I also bought $100 of Ethereum recently and have made a little bit. Crypto is more of a gamble so I am hesitant to risk a lot with it. I tried to jump on the Dogecoin bandwagon, and it went the other direction and I'm in the red.  

It's certainly possible Acorns is doing better now, but there's still 3 fundamentally wrong things about it:

1. The amount that's saved.  If you stick with the basics, the amount is pretty small.  Of course, anything is better than nothing.  But if you're looking to build your savings for retirement, to buy a house, or buy a car, which is generally the purpose behind these kinds of accounts, it's a very slow way to do it.  Of course, you can add more at any time.  But think of people in general...are they gonna do that?
2. It encourages you to spend.  That's the foundation of Acorns...you spend, we round it up, and you put in the round up.  So in a way, you are rewarded for spending.  Not a good idea...
3. It doesn't have tax-loss harvesting, which will save you on taxes.  (I could be wrong...maybe they added this?  It's been 4 years since I messed with them)

 

Now...I'm not saying Acorns is off limits and doesn't work for anyone.  If you tweak the settings, it can be better.  The bottom line, in my opinion, Acorns is perfect for those who don't have much money to save, and need to do micro-savings in order to have any kind of savings.  If that's not you, there's better options, like Wealthfront.  

 

 

For Bitcoin, you have to research and keep up with everything going on.  Read charts & fundamentals.  I bought Ethereum about a month ago when it was around $2,500 and I just sold a couple days ago when it was at $3,770.  Of course, I can never predict it perfectly, but I know enough about charts to see when things are close to the top & bottom.  I'm doing the DCA (Dollar Cost Averaging) strategy with Voyager by buying $10 worth of 10 coins every 1st & 15th.  And for playing the ups & downs, I use Nexo.  Right now, I believe we are reaching the end of the bull cycle, and we're about to see a correction, which is why I sold.  But that's another huge conversation for another day...  

[Brother_Bliss]

38 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

The amount that's saved.  If you stick with the basics, the amount is pretty small.  Of course, anything is better than nothing.  But if you're looking to build your savings for retirement, to buy a house, or buy a car, which is generally the purpose behind these kinds of accounts, it's a very slow way to do it.  Of course, you can add more at any time.  But think of people in general...are they gonna do that?

That could be. Like I said, I have 2x the round ups on, and an additional $50 a week going into the Invest account (I forgot to mention that above). So mine has been growing quickly.

 

42 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

It encourages you to spend.  That's the foundation of Acorns...you spend, we round it up, and you put in the round up.  So in a way, you are rewarded for spending.  Not a good idea...

I am not doing any more spending than I normally do. In fact, I barely use my personal accounts. The round ups are mostly attributed to my business accounts which I and my workers use multiple times a day. That spending activity would be taking place with or without Acorns. But you're right about the psychology of it. It's like a store putting things on sale. "This was $100 but now it's $60. You can SAVE $40" <--- umm, no, I am not saving anything. I am actually out $60, lol.

 

I put $50 per week into my Later account. But, there is a much higher annual limit I can contribute if I can afford it. If my business does well (Sole member S Corp) then the company can contribute more at the end of the year.

 

But yes, round up savings is slow, but better than nothing.

 

[computerwiz]

On 9/4/2021 at 3:21 PM, Dismal_Bliss said:

I also bought $100 worth of Bitcoin a few years ago. It's worth $400 today. I also bought $100 of Ethereum recently and have made a little bit. Crypto is more of a gamble so I am hesitant to risk a lot with it. I tried to jump on the Dogecoin bandwagon, and it went the other direction and I'm in the red.  

Today, you see why I sold Ethereum!!!!  WOW!!  It's dropping like a rock!

 

This was way worse, way faster than I anticipated.  But I knew a drop was coming....

[M.J.]

It's just temporary. Most cryptos will go back up.

[computerwiz]

6 minutes ago, M.J. said:

It's just temporary. Most cryptos will go back up.

Of course.  And since I sold before this happened, I now can buy back lower, for extra profit.  I just have to figure out where the bottom is.  From what I can tell, we have about a week of pain before things start trending upwards.

 

Crypto, just like the stock market, is a roller coaster.  Overall, they both go up.  But if you can time the small ups and downs, you can do even better than the overall gains.  It's challenging, but fun!  

 

And before you say "long term holders do better overall", I already know that.  Re-read the part where I said you can do better and it's fun to try.  

[New World Explorer]

I have large bag of bit of coins ...is this the same like bitcoin? LOL 🤣