Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[Fallbrookian]

9 hours ago, califlorican said:

 

.

Even the Governing Body has stated that the vaccine does provide a higher measure of protection!  

 

I'm curious where the GB stated "the vaccine does provide a higher measure of protection!"  In update #6 Brother Herd stated " In other parts of the world vaccinations have slowed the spread of the virus."  And ..."helping brothers get vaccinated if they want to be"....."the decision to be vaccinated is a personal one"

 

What am I missing?  Where was it said by GB about a higher measure of protection in regards to the covid shot? 

[TylerD]

1 hour ago, Nancy M said:

I'm curious where the GB stated "the vaccine does provide a higher measure of protection!"  In update #6 Brother Herd stated " In other parts of the world vaccinations have slowed the spread of the virus."  And ..."helping brothers get vaccinated if they want to be"....."the decision to be vaccinated is a personal one"

 

What am I missing?  Where was it said by GB about a higher measure of protection in regards to the covid shot? 

It was said in a previous branch letter to all congregations.

[lovjahupepl]

CDC study shows 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html

 

The new data, published in the U.S. agency’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, also found that fully vaccinated people who get infected carry as much of the virus in their nose as unvaccinated people, and could spread it to other individuals.

 

We need the New System.  Looks like the pandemic isn't going to end anytime soon. 😟

[califlorican]

3 hours ago, Nancy M said:

I'm curious where the GB stated "the vaccine does provide a higher measure of protection!"  In update #6 Brother Herd stated " In other parts of the world vaccinations have slowed the spread of the virus."  And ..."helping brothers get vaccinated if they want to be"....."the decision to be vaccinated is a personal one"

 

What am I missing?  Where was it said by GB about a higher measure of protection in regards to the covid shot? 

They have absolutely said it outright. It was in a letter, as previously mentioned. It also is implied by the fact that special full-time servants who are vaccinated are allowed to meet together with others who have been vaccinated. We were recently able to spend time socially with some special pioneers in our cong. after they asked us if we’ve been fully vaccinated because that was the rule set out by the branch. The GB does not take this lightly, so to allow this obviously means something.

 

Just because something is a personal decision doesn’t mean one isn’t more of a protection than another. Most healthcare choices are a personal decision, but some choices are more protective than others- that’s just how it goes. Wearing sunscreen is a personal choice, but it has been made pretty clear that people who wear sunscreen are more protected than those who go without.

Edited July 31, 2021 by califlorican

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, Nancy M said:

I'm curious where the GB stated "the vaccine does provide a higher measure of protection!"  

It was in the announcement dated June 4,2021.  However, the exact wording was:

 

Quote

1. COVID-19 Restrictions: Many governmental public health authorities have stated that fully vaccinated people may have greater flexibility in their activities. These activities might include association with others, travel, and assembling for events. It is wise to keep updated on the local governmental requirements and to respect them.

 

[califlorican]

4 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

It was in the announcement dated June 4,2021.  However, the exact wording was:

 

 

I think there was another one before that did use the words “measure of protection”. I don’t have access to the letters though

[vern]

9 hours ago, AH173 said:

As with all living organisms

 

research virus.....  they aren't traditional one cell organisms.  they are protien structures that need another one cell organism to replicate....  in most cases they are not harmful.. so I describe them as protien tools...  but thats my words.

 

and many virologists say viruses change extremely slowly.... if they change at all.  and minutely at that.. 

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, califlorican said:

I think there was another one before that did use the words “measure of protection”. I don’t have access to the letters though

It could be in that same announcement, I didn't reread all of it. 

 

Our congregation has the announcements posted on the congregation virtual information board. Perhaps yours does as well. 

[Fallbrookian]

3 hours ago, califlorican said:

I think there was another one before that did use the words “measure of protection”. I don’t have access to the letters though

Maybe you were referring to that same June 4, 2021 letter where the GB also stated: "Medical studies have shown that those who are fully vaccinated have added protection against the virus."

 

This makes it  clear that the brothers are referring to medical studies, of which there are many on both sides of the fence.  By saying the decision to be vaccinated is a personal one, the brothers also acknowledge that not everyone will make the same choice as they do.  It  doesn't matter if 100% of Bethelites get the shot or 1% get it, we all do our own research and study.  Depending on our age we have seen what works the best for our individual health over the years. The GB is not going to tell us what drug or supplement to take, can you imagine the liability?

[carlos]

13 minutes ago, Nancy M said:

This makes it  clear that the brothers are referring to medical studies, of which there are many on both sides of the fence.  By saying the decision to be vaccinated is a personal one, the brothers also acknowledge that not everyone will make the same choice as they do.

You are partly right, Nancy. You are right that the brothers will not tell us what to do. It's a personal choice.

 

But the point about many medical studies on both sides of the fence is not correct. Science is not on the fence on this issue. It's indisputable that the vaccines are efficient against the virus and that they offer a big protection against it. It's easy to see that just looking around and seeing who are the ones dying from the virus. Where I live, in Spain, a few months ago over one thousand people died daily of covid, day after day. Today, with 70 percent of the population vaccinated, the number of daily victims is 10 or 15. The results are similar in every country where a sizeable percentage of the population is vaccinated.

 

A different question is possible risks or side effects of the vaccine. Many decide not to get the vaccine for this reason and we must respect their choice. But to deny the vaccine means a big protection against the virus is to deny the obvious.

[YayaMichelle]

On 7/30/2021 at 12:23 PM, vern said:

 

look up crona virus animal trials and what happened to the animals after testing them with wild virus they were suppose to "vaccine" against and they all died from over exagerated responses and died.

 

They had treatments that were highly effective but put the on the unpproved

 

 

ADE (antibody-dependent (disease) enhancement).  Animals were injected mrna for corona viruses. Since 2005 they were testings. Animals were fine after injections. However, when exposed to the wild corona virus again is when pathogenic priming happens. Their immune system exhibits exaggerated response. Antibodies (titers) are exponentially produced but are sub-optimal and exhibit non-neutralizing behaviors. Meaning they bind to the virus in an inferior way causing them to replicate more and wreak havoc. 

Luc Montagnier, Dolores Cahill, Judy Mikovitz, Geert Vanden Bossche have been warning about these as early as March 2020.

from Dr. Robert Malone
https://rumble.com/vkfz1v-the-vaccine-causes-the-virus-to-be-more-dangerous.html

[AH173]

3 hours ago, vern said:

 

research virus.....  they aren't traditional one cell organisms.  they are protien structures that need another one cell organism to replicate....  in most cases they are not harmful.. so I describe them as protien tools...  but thats my words.

 

and many virologists say viruses change extremely slowly.... if they change at all.  and minutely at that.. 

You are entitled to your information.

 

It is living and changing. If you don't think so it is ok. 

[Shawnster]

28 minutes ago, AH173 said:

You are entitled to your information.

 

It is living and changing. If you don't think so it is ok. 

Let's not get confused with scientific definitions.  Vern is correct in that science is not definite on whether viruses meet the definition of life or not.  

 

This doesn't mean that Vern or anyone else denies viruses exist.  This simply is a matter of textbook definitions.  How we define viruses does not change their effect on people and animals. 

[Tbs77]

That is a misunderstanding, Tracey. Those vaccinated are not carrying a higher load and spreading it to the unvaccinated. With previous variants of the virus, those vaccinated didn't catch it at all or if they did to a very small degree. That's a good thing. With this Delta variant, there is no difference. You are as contagious whether vaccinated or not. It's not higher for those vaccinated.
 
That is, the vaccine doesn't have an effect on transmission of the Delta variant. But still, those who are vaccinated will not get seriously sick. If the whole population were vaccinated, this whole pandemic would be over. The virus would still be among us, but it would be like the flu. People would catch it occasionally and some would spend a couple days in bed until they recover and that's it. But since many people refuse to take the vaccine, this pandemic will last much longer.

Hi Carlos,

Let me rephrase

The vaccinated may be carrying a higher load “than expected”

Study: Vaccinated People Can Carry as Much Virus as Others
In another big setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-called breakthrough infections carried about the same amount of the coronavirus as those who did not get the shots.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-07-30/cdc-team-war-has-changed-as-delta-variant-dangers-emerge?context=amp

[AH173]

4 hours ago, vern said:

 

research virus.....  they aren't traditional one cell organisms.  they are protien structures that need another one cell organism to replicate....  in most cases they are not harmful.. so I describe them as protien tools...  but thats my words.

 

and many virologists say viruses change extremely slowly.... if they change at all.  and minutely at that.. 

 

58 minutes ago, AH173 said:

You are entitled to your information.

 

It is living and changing. If you don't think so it is ok. 

 

26 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Let's not get confused with scientific definitions.  Vern is correct in that science is not definite on whether viruses meet the definition of life or not.  

 

This doesn't mean that Vern or anyone else denies viruses exist.  This simply is a matter of textbook definitions.  How we define viruses does not change their effect on people and animals. 

Shawn and Vern, you are both entitled to your ideas of what life is.

 

I simply said it is a living organism in my original post.

 

 

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, AH173 said:

 

 

Shawn and Vern, you are both entitled to your ideas of what life is.

 

I simply said it is a living organism in my original post.

 

 

Likewise, you're entitled to your ideas and, honestly, I don't understand why this is as much an issue for you as you are making it. 

 

Besides, it's not my idea, it's not Verns idea, it's what current science understands. 

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-viruses-alive-2004/

 

It's really not a matter of personal opinion, and I don't really see why it matters.   If you think by stating science is not definitive on whether viruses are alive or not (and that's all viruses, not just coronavirus) somehow means we don't feel this is as serious a problem as you do, then I must say that's not the case.  

 

But, please, don't imply that we are simply sharing some opinion. Facts are facts.  It's not really something that can be debated.  

 

But, then, you are entitled to your opinions. 

 

Here's a thought to consider. Did Jehovah create viruses? Did Satan? My study of the scriptures convinces me beyond a shadow of a doubt that only Jehovah can create life. Period.  Satan cannot create life.  However, I do not see any positive benefit of a virus.  It seems reasonable that viruses were created by Satan. But, since Satan cannot, in my opinion, create life, then that is a paradox. The solution is that viruses are not life. They are an imitation of life.  That is a possibility I am open to.  Maybe I'm wrong. One day, most likely after Armageddon, this question will be answered. Until then we are left with questions. 

 

But that helps me rationalize why viruses exist, especially since science (not my opinion) is inconclusive on whether viruses are life or not. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Shawnster

[YayaMichelle]

Although thought by many as antagonistic,  viruses have benefits too. There are bad ones of course(covid, influenza, shingles, etc) and there are friendly and beneficial ones we already have in our bodies(i.e. bacteriophages) and in our environment forming symbiotic relationships with other biological agents.

 

source: American Society for Microbiology

 

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150430170750.htm

 

its not a living organism by itself.. but its a biological agent/protein/dna/rna/molecule which needs a host cell to be functional per scientific definitions 

[Old]

4 hours ago, AH173 said:

You are entitled to your information.

 

It is living and changing. If you don't think so it is ok. 

Where do you find evidence that the virus is alive?

[AH173]

5 hours ago, Old said:

Where do you find evidence that the virus is alive?

Again. I simply said it's a living organism. I learned this in junior high school and life science in elementary school. 

 

The question about "evidence that the virus is alive" is what I can appreciate being asked. 

 

One can reason on this and whatever you can come up with at wol.jw.org. This reference is under 'germs' topic. 

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102003762#h=2

 

Quote

Those Resilient Germs—How They Rebound

VIRUSES, bacteria, protozoans, fungi, and other microorganisms have evidently been around since life on earth began. The stunning flexibility of these germs, the simplest of all creatures, has allowed them to survive where nothing else can. They are found in scalding vents on the ocean floor as well as in the freezing waters of the Arctic. Now these germs are repelling the most concentrated of all assaults on their existence—antimicrobial drugs.

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by AH173
update

[cme]

23 hours ago, AH173 said:

As with all living organisms, they will change and adapt to live.

 

If a vast majority of the population will not get vaccinated, in the short run it won't matter. All this back and forth - whether to get the vaccine or not - will pale in comparison to studies like this. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/health/vaccination-alone-variants-study/index.html

 

This study suggests that all the time that vaccinated ones who don't mask up  in confined areas and social distance will bring about /develop a vaccine resistant (if it's not here already) covid virus. 

 

The unvaccinated and vaccinated won't have to have anything to debate then. 

 

The time to act would probably be over. And the world will face another plague. 

Yeah, Jehovah's.

[Shawnster]

Moving on... Let's get back on topic... 

[Tbs77]

The reason this has gotten “crazier” is because people are panicking. 
 
The focus has shifted from deaths and hospitalizations (which are more important) to pure case numbers (which by themselves are not the most important).
 
This time last year in the US, there were 68,972 case and 1866 deaths. 
 
Yesterday in the US there were 92,485 cases and 398 deaths. 
 
If people look at things in context and stay calm, it won’t get crazy. 
 
But fear has set in which is saddening to me. 

Hi Bob
Broaden perspective of “crazier” with me:

https://www.businessinsider.com/philippines-president-tells-vaccine-deniers-die-any-time-2021-7

The Philippine president told unvaccinated people 'for all I care, you can die anytime' as he continues his brutal threats against vaccine deniers

Sinéad Baker Jul 30, 2021, 4:16 AM

The president of the Philippines is continuing threats against those who deny coronavirus vaccines.

He said to people who don't want the vaccine: "For all I care, you can die anytime."

He added that police may restrict their movements, having previously threatened to jail them.


Bruh…
It’s going to get crazier!

Agape

[Fallbrookian]

On 7/31/2021 at 4:26 PM, carlos said:

 

 

But the point about many medical studies on both sides of the fence is not correct. Science is not on the fence on this issue. It's indisputable that the vaccines are efficient against the virus and that they offer a big protection against it.

That's an interesting comment considering what sister Yayamichelle said after you.  Dr Robert Malone MD, MS physician, scientist.  Also Luc Montagnier, a prominent virologist, nobel prize winner 2008. You say "science is not on the fence on this issue"? 

[X-Tryman]

On 7/31/2021 at 2:36 PM, lovjahupepl said:

CDC study shows 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html

"Overall, 274 vaccinated patients with a breakthrough infection were symptomatic, according to the CDC. Among five Covid patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated, according to the agency. No deaths were reported."

 

I wonder how can they do accurate statistic now if CDC stopped monitoring vaccine breakthrough cases not resulting in hospitalization or death.

[trottigy]

About 99.999% of fully vaccinated Americans have not had a deadly Covid-19 breakthrough case, CDC data shows

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/31/health/fully-vaccinated-people-breakthrough-hospitalization-death/index.html