Morning Worship : The “Slave” Is Not 1900 Years Old

[Mykyl]

New morning worship video.

 

http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODProgramsEvents/pub-jwbmw_201506_1_VIDEO

[trottigy]

Great morning worship.

[pholmes38]

Very interesting line of reasoning

[Dustparticle]

That is true since Jesus says this will be in the last days and when he arrives at the end of the GT.

[mserskine]

http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODProgramsEvents/pub-jwbmw_201506_1_VIDEO

[trottigy]

If you  take a good unvarnished look at history - you just do not see a "Faithful Slave" providing spiritual food at the right time - until the time of the end. What was missing:

 

1. Source - Bible available in your language

 

2. Attitude toward spiritual food not wholesome 

 

3. Division among the reformers 

 

4. Attitude towards the preaching work - negative

 

It was a start, but there just wasn't a 1900 year old slave.

[sunshine]

I knew there were many religious wars between Catholics and Protestants but I didn't know Protestants were so violent towards EACH OTHER...

[Allabord4Jah]

I really like the way Br. Splane explained that!  Makes a lot of sense.   

[GStorrs46]

I did like that Bro. Splane allowanced for some of their mistakes, noting that we have made mistakes too. He also

noted that some may have been of the anointed. While none of them served as a Faithful and Discreet Slave

( after all Jesus in his prophesy at Matt. 24 indicated that Slave wouldn't make his appearance until his Second

Presence ), still some of them may have been of the wheat class. A comparison of the comments on pages

48, and 49 of the Proclaimers book says that a number of their basic doctrines, which we ourselves came to accept

as being true were "of the Lord". So only Jehovah knows for sure. There was a time in the organization's history

when we still believed the slave existed from 33 c.e. until now. They thought the older members of that slave taught

the younger members. And that is how Jehovah preserved the basic truths amid centuries of apostasy by

Christendom. I wonder how much of that basic idea is left. Obviously they would not have been the FDS, but I see

nothing wrong in seeing that is how those of the true wheat class survived and spiritually fed and strengthened

one another. Comments anyone ?

 

GStorrs46

[carlos]

There was a time in the organization's history when we still believed the slave existed from 33 c.e. until now. They thought the older members of that slave taught the younger members. And that is how Jehovah preserved the basic truths amid centuries of apostasy by Christendom. I wonder how much of that basic idea is left. Obviously they would not have been the FDS, but I see nothing wrong in seeing that is how those of the true wheat class survived and spiritually fed and strengthened one another. Comments anyone ?

 

Yes, it was believed that at every given time there was a FDS, in a continuous line from the apostles to our times. But there is no evidence of such a line, even if they were not the Slave. The number of wheat-like Christians during all those centuries must have been very scarce, and we don't know if they viewed themselves as a group or were isolated.

 

If there had been such a line that transmitted the pure doctrine from one generation to the next one, it wouldn't have been necessary for Bible Students to rediscover all the Bible truths from the 19th century to our days.

[boodles]

So does that mean that in the First Century there was just a Governing Body, but they weren't also the FDS? I thought we thought there was always a slave because there have always been annointed ones on Earth. Guess I was really mixed up about this, but Bro. Splane's explanation is very clear.

[jwhess]

Sister Loraine,  Might these recent references help?

 

*** w13 7/15 p. 21 par. 6 “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?” ***

^{6 …}Then, in words meant for those living during the last days, he urged vigilance, saying: “You do not know on what day your Lord is coming” and, “At an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.” In this context—when speaking about events that would take place in the last days—Jesus related the illustration of the faithful slave. Therefore, we may conclude that his words about that faithful slave began to be fulfilled only after the last days began in 1914.

 

*** w14 1/15 p. 13 par. 6 100 Years of Kingdom Rule—How Does It Affect You? ***

⁶ Jesus then used his kingly authority to appoint a “faithful and discreet slave.” This slave would provide a regular supply of wholesome spiritual food to all who make up the “one flock” under Jesus’ care. (Matt. 24:45-47; John 10:16) Since 1919, a small group of anointed brothers have loyally carried out the weighty responsibility to feed the “domestics.” The abundant spiritual food provided through this channel nourishes us so that we can grow in the faith. It fortifies our resolve to remain spiritually, morally, mentally, and physically clean. This spiritual food also educates us and equips us to have a full share in the most important work being done on earth today. Are you taking full advantage of these provisions?

[Ahuvah]

These morning worships are like little diamonds twinkling on our long narrow pathway. Thank u Jehovah for these beautiful brothers.

[carlos]

So does that mean that in the First Century there was just a Governing Body, but they weren't also the FDS?

 

Exactly! Because the Faithful and Discreet Slave only appears during Jesus' presence.

 

I thought we thought there was always a slave because there have always been annointed ones on Earth.

 

Yes, we thought that because we believed that all the anointed living at a given moment made up the Slave. Now we understand that, although it's true that there have always been anointed Christians on Earth, they were not the Slave. Those Christians, faithful as they were, did not provide spiritual food at the proper time for anyone.

[boodles]

Thanks for the references and feedback. It makes sense. It's funny to think we didn't know that before.

[mserskine]

Thanks for the references and feedback. It makes sense. It's funny to think we didn't know that before.

Well, as Proverbs 4:18 says the light (spiritual) gets lighter and lighter.

So, as we get closer to the end of this system of things, our understanding of the scriptures becomes clearer.

[rbrown1205]

I understand the reasoning and accept it, but wonder --

 

During the time from the end of the Apostles' time and the beginning of the Last Days, were there no people who responded or would respond to God's message of truth?  And, according to Colossians 1:23, only 30 years after Jesus' death and resurrection, the good news was declared in all creation under heaven. The Watchtower of January 2009 outlined what that must have meant, including considering the trade routes from Spain to possibly the Orient. What became of those who responded by that time?

 

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2009007

 

I remember reading that 2000 years ago it was estimated that there were only 200-300 million people living, less than the present population of the United States alone.

 

http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=7

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/worldbalance/numb-nf.html

Edited June 22, 2015 by rbrown1205

[Tortuga]

I understand the reasoning and accept it, but wonder --

 

During the time from the end of the Apostles' time and the beginning of the Last Days, were there no people who responded or would respond to God's message of truth?  And, according to Colossians 1:23, only 30 years after Jesus' death and resurrection, the good news was declared in all creation under heaven. The Watchtower of January 2009 outlined what that must have meant, including considering the trade routes from Spain to possibly the Orient. What became of those who responded by that time?

 

Those that responded would not make up the FDS. 

[rbrown1205]

After reading my post again, it is easier to see that now, Brother RKibel.

 

A population from 300 million to the first 1 billion did not happen until about 1900, and in a little over 100 years, 1 billion people turned into 7 billion, and we now have the very best communications technology in the history of humankind.  This is a GREAT time, the BEST time, for the Good News to be published all over the world!!

Edited June 22, 2015 by rbrown1205

[rbrown1205]

*** w14 1/15 p. 13 par. 6 100 Years of Kingdom Rule—How Does It Affect You? ***

⁶ Jesus then used his kingly authority to appoint a “faithful and discreet slave.” This slave would provide a regular supply of wholesome spiritual food to all who make up the “one flock” under Jesus’ care. (Matt. 24:45-47; John 10:16) Since 1919, a small group of anointed brothers have loyally carried out the weighty responsibility to feed the “domestics.” The abundant spiritual food provided through this channel nourishes us so that we can grow in the faith. It fortifies our resolve to remain spiritually, morally, mentally, and physically clean. This spiritual food also educates us and equips us to have a full share in the most important work being done on earth today. Are you taking full advantage of these provisions?

 

One other thing is, after the Apostles' time, there wasn't a UNIFIED body that fed the ENTIRE group of Jesus' domestics.

What became the Catholic church was being infiltrated by Greek and Roman ideologies and doctrines, and what became the Orthodox Church had its own doctrinal departures.  All of those Apochryphal writers of the second and third century who said that their work was that of the Apostles, and Mary, and whoever else that they said wrote them, divided and confused people terribly, and they still do.

[retroHelen]

I love history,but you read of the odd faithful person trying to read the Bible and preach something different than the powerful churches of the day and they were hounded into exile, persecuted into silence or burned at the stake. So they were stamped on before they could do anything about feeding anyone with much spiritual food.

 

I've just finished a historical "Who Done It" murder mystery type book set in the time of Henry VIII. Though it's main character is fictional it's set around real events and people of the day. Henry VIII wasn't Protestant, he just wanted to be Defender of the Faith and Head of the Catholic church in England rather than subservient to the Pope, who he had fallen out with for not allowing him to divorce his first wife and taking a big chunk of the country's revenues in Church Tithes to embellish the Pope's lavish St Peter's in Rome. The Book 'Lamentation' by C J Sansom is part of a Series about a Tudor Lawyer who is forced to work firstly for Henry VIII's Chancellor and archbishop during the Dissolution of the Monasteries and then for Henry's last wife Catherine Parr.

 

Henry hated the Protestant reformers and although he allowed a Bible translation, he didn't like ordinary 'unlettered' people using the Bible to try to reform the Catholic Mass and deny 'transubstantiation' and had hideous public burnings of anyone accused of denying the Catholic doctrines or reading 'reformist literature'. Catherine Parr, misreading her husband's allowing a  Bible Translation into English as allowing some reform, had written something herself that could be interpreted as supporting reformers and worries for her life when what she wrote disappears from her possessions in this book and so does this lawyer who had paid highly for an English Bible translation that was then not approved by the King and other books the King then declared banned and had to be surrendered on pain of death. Printers and booksellers had to give up lists to the King's henchmen as to who they had provided the now banned books for or be burned too. It was a scary time to live.No one distributing anything against what the King had decreed as Divine Truth - as he felt he had 'Divine Right of Kings' to decide that - would have survived in a community that was paid to spy and report on reformist breaches/disloyalty against the King.

 

We see though that it was not so important then to have the Truth. Jehovah would preserve His Word until the time would come in the Last Days for the True Knowledge to become abundant (Daniel 12) - Food at the Proper Time was really only needed in the Last Days because Jesus was resurrecting the people for the heavenly Kingdom administration and preparing a nucleus of others for the New Earth then. It wasn't vital to have a FDS before 1914, though Jehovah may choose some good people to be in the heavenly kingdom through history, but they weren't anything more than that .