God's Name - Yahweh or Jehovah?

[Ahuvah]

Good morning all ... just thought I'd share a very informative and positive movie about the use of God's name, the pronunciation and why his name was 'forgotten' and interestingly how some now are acknowledging that Jehovah is certainly God's True name.

This movie is NOT affiliated to jw.org but it seems there has been input or the narrator could well be a Jehovah's Witness. Enjoy I did - in fact im trying to type it all out ver batum, to keep some of the points on hand.

 

 

[Qapla]

Didn't watch the whole thing (it is an hour long) but, right near the beginning is the music of one of our songs - so, that brings to question ...... if it is not a JW video, is there a major Copyright issue?

 

Well, on going to the credits, there is a "thanks" to JW's in Berlin and there appears to be what might be another one of our songs in the ending credits

Edited March 13, 2017 by Qapla

[Ahuvah]

I don't know perhaps someone could enlighten us in this thread.... maybe the brother has permission to use it? IT's certainly not a misuse ... so don't know. But it's one of the best  movies I've seen - notwithstanding jw.org sources. 

 

Would love to know everyones thoughts on this.

 

He uses shots of a convention x2 ... the song Jehovah is your Name x2 and finishes the movie with a Kingdom Melody too, which brought me to think he was a witness along with the excellent expert testimonies too, so I'm just assuming he's gained permission  from the society to use the Kingdom Melodies.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Stormswift

[carlos]

1 hour ago, Stormswift said:

I don't know perhaps someone could enlighten us in this thread.... maybe the brother has permission to use it? IT's certainly not a misuse ... so don't know. But it's one of the best  movies I've seen - notwithstanding jw.org sources. 

A friend of mine who collaborates with the director of that documentary asked if I would be willing to translate it into Spanish. I never heard of the project again until I received a DVD with the movie as a gift (but it was already subtitled in Spanish).

 

I think Fritz Poppenberg, the director of that video, is not one of JWs but he has produced and shot several documentaries about us, especially about the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses by the Nazi regime. In that movie two well-known brothers and scholars are interviewed: Rolf Furuli and Gérard Gertoux.

 

So even if it's not a movie made by the branch I'm sure the director has contacted the branch and received permission. No issue with copyrights.

[Ahuvah]

My thoughts exactly. It's a beautiful movie ... i've learnt so much about the word Adonai, and how the vowels were placed and exactly how early the name Jehovah was found in archalogical findings. 

 

 

[New World Explorer]

I am going to watch it ! Thanks Mandi .... 

is it possible to download this movie ? 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Gregexplore

[Ahuvah]

If you know how to download from Youtube probably.  Otherwise Carlos might know more about this chap who might have an official website?

[New World Explorer]

Just now, Stormswift said:

If you know how to download from Youtube probably.  Otherwise Carlos might know more about this chap who might have an official website?

Do you have direct link to you tube? 

[Ahuvah]

1 minute ago, Gregexplore said:

Do you have direct link to you tube? 

Just go into youtube and type in the title of the movie : The Name of God - Jehovah or Yahweh it's the first English one that comes up - there are others in other languages also.

[Myew]

Watched it, pretty enjoyable documentary. Some great explanations regarding the names and quite a few references to Witnesses, thanks for sharing!

[1gemstone]

I'd enjoyed it too, thanks for sharing Mandi.

[alohapaulette]

20 hours ago, Stormswift said:

I don't know perhaps someone could enlighten us in this thread.... maybe the brother has permission to use it? IT's certainly not a misuse ... so don't know. But it's one of the best  movies I've seen - notwithstanding jw.org sources. 

 

Would love to know everyones thoughts on this.

 

He uses shots of a convention x2 ... the song Jehovah is your Name x2 and finishes the movie with a Kingdom Melody too, which brought me to think he was a witness along with the excellent expert testimonies too, so I'm just assuming he's gained permission  from the society to use the Kingdom Melodies.

 

There is a "Fair Use" provision in the copyright law for - commentary, criticism, and parody.  Also, laws vary from country to country.

[Friends just call me Ross]

Must see TV. 

So faith-strengthening!

[Ahuvah]

5 hours ago, alohapaulette said:

There is a "Fair Use" provision in the copyright law for - commentary, criticism, and parody.  Also, laws vary from country to country.

Yes the Fair use applies to the International Copyright Act ... so all countries who are parties to that adhere to that Act.  And, as I stated above it certainly isn't a misue of our Kingdom Melodies in fact quite the opposite so I concur with Carlos' comment about Copyright not even being an issue.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Stormswift

[EccentricM]

When people ever ask me Yahweh or Jehovah. I usually say "both", just depends on the translation you want to use. Same as Jesus/Yeshua. I point them to jw.org publications section and to take a look at the various translations we have, seeing how many variations for the name there are, including Yahweh, Jehovah and others.

[Raven]

On 3/14/2017 at 7:52 AM, carlos said:

A friend of mine who collaborates with the director of that documentary asked if I would be willing to translate it into Spanish. I never heard of the project again until I received a DVD with the movie as a gift (but it was already subtitled in Spanish).

 

I think Fritz Poppenberg, the director of that video, is not one of JWs but he has produced and shot several documentaries about us, especially about the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses by the Nazi regime. In that movie two well-known brothers and scholars are interviewed: Rolf Furuli and Gérard Gertoux.

 

So even if it's not a movie made by the branch I'm sure the director has contacted the branch and received permission. No issue with copyrights.

Sounds very interesting...How does one get their hands on a copy of the DVD? And how much does it cost?

[carlos]

13 hours ago, Bjern said:

Sounds very interesting...How does one get their hands on a copy of the DVD? And how much does it cost?

It can be bought for 15€ from the director's site but probably the shipping costs to Australia are higher than the price itself.

https://www.dreilindenfilm.de/shop/der-name-gottes_en.html

 

[rbrown1205]

The name of the one who posted this is Wilfried Peezenkamp .  The comments on his youtube page are in Dutch, and a commenter called him Mr. (thanks to Google Translate).   But the WTS videos are in his playlist, in Dutch.    He is probably a brother.

 

 

[Raven]

2 hours ago, carlos said:

It can be bought for 15€ from the director's site but probably the shipping costs to Australia are higher than the price itself.

https://www.dreilindenfilm.de/shop/der-name-gottes_en.html

 

Thank you. Will check it out...

[Raven]

Finally got around to watching this documentary via Youtube. Was worth watching it! 

 

I had thought that God's name was originally pronounçed with a “w” instead of a “v” (Yehowah). I know in Modern Hebrew it is pronounçed with a “v” too (Yehovah), which makes sense if that is how they used to say it. This is good to find out, as i was told that the “v” sound is due to Latin translation into English ~ in Latin, the “v” sound is writen as “w”, which is why we say in English “wall” rather than “vall”, to use one example of a word of Latin origins. So instead of a translation mistake, as some would have you believe, it is actually a correct translation: The Tetragrammaton being translated into Latin to have a “w” for the right sound in the Latin spoken language, and the translators realizing that “w” means “v” in English...one would hope Latin-to-English translators would know this fundamental fact about these two languages.

Anyway, this means that aside from the Germanic influençed use of “J” rather than “Y”, ancient Israelites would recognise God‘s name in Modern English!

 

Also, i didn't know that Jesus in Hebrew is Yehoshua. I though it was Yeshua, and have heard it pronounçed as “Yeshua”. It appears that Joshua and Jesus are in Hebrew the same name.

[skipdaflip]

A very good book to read and which is mentioned in the documentary is the one from Nehemia Gordon. (I'm translating it at the moment). 

 

Here is a piece about the v and w struggle:

 

One issue I have struggled with over the years is how to pronounce the Hebrew letter vav in God’s name. Many scholars believe this letter was originally pronounced like the English letter W, which would make God’s name “Yehowah” and not “Yehovah.” As a Hebrew speaker, this sounds utterly ridiculous to me. Hebrew is a living language spoken by millions of people, and they all pronounce the letter vav like the English V. The truth is that we don’t even know for sure how the letter vav was pronounced thousands of years ago. No one has a recording of ancient Hebrew. What we have are multiple pronunciation traditions of different Jewish communities, and they don’t agree with each other. The facts of history are that some Jewish communities in centuries past pronounced the letter vav as V and others pronounced it as W. It’s enough to make poor Tevye’s head spin. How the ancient Israelites pronounced he letter vav is anyone’s guess. It is even possible that the different pronunciation traditions of various Jewish communities go back to ancient tribal dialects. We know that the tribe of Ephraim pronounced the Hebrew language differently from all the other tribes. The Book of Judges tells about a war in Transjordan between the tribe of Ephraim and the army of Jephthah. At the end of the war, Jephthah’s men seized the fords over the Jordan River to prevent the defeated Ephraimites from returning home. Anyone attempting to cross the river was asked to pronounce the word “Shibolet.” When the Ephraimites tried to say this word, it came out as “Sibolet.” They were unable to pronounce the “SH” sound, quite literally, to save their lives. If such a big difference existed between Ephraim and the other tribes, then it’s possible that some ancient Israelites pronounced the letter vav as V and others as W.

Edited June 9, 2017 by skipdaflip

[skipdaflip]

On 3/15/2017 at 6:52 AM, EccentricM said:

When people ever ask me Yahweh or Jehovah. I usually say "both", just depends on the translation you want to use. Same as Jesus/Yeshua. I point them to jw.org publications section and to take a look at the various translations we have, seeing how many variations for the name there are, including Yahweh, Jehovah and others.

In the documentary and also on hebrew naming sites you will see other names that refer to yehovah. The name yehoshua which is the name of Jezus (latin). If you check how it is written in hebrew, you will notice that it starts with yod-heh.

When written in a word then some grammatical rules are applied that a consonant has to be followed up by a vowel. 

Back to Hebrew names like yehoshua that refer to yehovah, you'll see that yeho(shua) are the yod-heh. Take any name that refers to God, and you will notice it starts with yod-heh (yeho), or ends with yah which are also yod-heh but written with another vowel.

 

So every consonant of yod-heh-vav-heh has a follow up by a vowel. Except the last consonant that ends the word. And the rule is that when it ends with a heh, and before that consonant is a vav. Then the last heh won't be heard and the vav must be followed up by an a. So it must be vah and would sound like a va.

 

In Hebrew a lot of vowels could be placed between yod-heh-vav-heh. But with the rules above it must be something like:

Yehavah, yehivah, yohivah, yehovah, yahavah etc. But then looking at refers to gods name, it all starts with yeho. After all of has to be yehovah.

 

Another conclusion is that yahweh or jahweh is technical impossible, because you would mis the vowel between the heh and the vav.

 

If you like to find this out yourself, which will certainly strenghten faith. I would recommand the book of Nehemia Gordon- shattering the conspiracy of silence. And with that I did an online Hebrew course.

[carlos]

There is an inconsistency I noticed several years ago but no one else seemed to care, until the experts in this documentary confirmed it.

 

If you look up "Jehovah" in any encyclopedia or reference work, you will read that it's an artificial form of the name. Ancient Jews wouldn't pronounce Jehovah's name, but replaced it with "Adonai" (the Lord) when reading the Scriptures. To remind them of that, the Soferim put the vowels of Adonai over the consonants of YHWH (in Hebrew, vowels are written as small dots upon or below the consonants). They claim that way the hybrid form "Jehovah" was formed. Even our publications have mentioned this explanation occasionally, no doubt trusting that scholars knew what they were talking about.

 

But there is a huge hole in this explanation: The vowels of Adonai are not e-o-a. They are a-o-a. If the hybrid form theory were true, the resulting name would have been Jahovah. How is it possible that, among so many scholars and experts, nobody ever noticed that? I guess the story fit so well their theories that no one questioned it.

 

So I don't believe "Jehovah" is a hybrid form accidentally made up by the Soferim when they put the vowels of Adonai over the letters of YHWH. Rather, I believe Jehovah is the original pronunciation of the Name that was faithfully preserved in the Hebrew text. The pronunciation of the name was still known in Jesus time, so there's no reason why it couldn't have been preserved at least among a group of scholars and copyists.

[Ahuvah]

What made me laugh is that the Jews would not utter the name 'Jehovah' - yet a good many of their jewish names, had Jehovah's name in their names so like Jesus, Joshua and Jehosophat and others, they were directing people to God's real name - Jehovah. (or the Hebrew equivalent of course).

[dove]

6 hours ago, Stormswift said:

What made me laugh is that the Jews would not utter the name 'Jehovah' - yet a good many of their jewish names, had Jehovah's name in their names so like Jesus, Joshua and Jehosophat and others, they were directing people to God's real name - Jehovah. (or the Hebrew equivalent of course).

As  everytime they proclaim the word, 'Hallelulah'....