DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[Bluebell]

10:18 ECHR in its judgments clearly determined which texts can be considered to incite hatred and enmity - incitement to violence, to the bloody revenge, calls, justifies the use of physical force. It is noteworthy that in the memorandum, which the Russian Federation has sent to the ECHR, namely the Ministry of Justice has recognized that there are no open calls for violence (p. 41) in the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses.

10:25 Omelchenko said that the community of Jehovah's Witnesses, which the Ministry of Justice asking to liquidate, received numerous awards and commendations from local authorities (there are in fact), but they did not receive warnings about the inadmissibility of extremist activity.

[jayrtom]

5 minutes ago, Samira said:

why is     https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://jw-russia.org/pages/17040614-132.html#0406

 

not working?

Sometimes it doesn't work for me also... maybe because of millions of people translating the same website at the same time?

[Margaret]

 

10:18 The ECtHR in its decisions clearly defined which texts can be considered inciting hatred and enmity - incitement to violence, bloody revenge, appeals justifying the need for the use of physical force. It is noteworthy that in the memorandum, which the Russian Federation sent to the ECHR, it was the Ministry of Justice that recognized that there are no open calls for violence in the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses (paragraph 41).

[Beggar for the Spirit]

So its one thing to defend your self by saying, "I haven't committed any violent or extremist actions".

But it is a much bigger defense when you can provide as evidence the prosecution's own words and show the court that,

"in a memo by the Russian Ministry of Justice to the European Court of Human Rights they admitted that in none of Jehovah's Witnesses literature were there found any calls for violence!"

 

As Jesus would say, "You yourself have said it"   

Edited April 12, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[jayrtom]

Since no one is posting here it is the next statement:

 

10:25	Omelchenko notes that the communities of Jehovah's Witnesses, which the Justice Ministry requests to liquidate, received many letters of commendation from local authorities (available in the case), but they did not receive any warnings about the inadmissibility of extremist activities.

[Margaret]

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Margaret
Wrong

[Guri]

8 minutes ago, Margaret said:

 

10:18 The ECtHR in its decisions clearly defined which texts can be considered inciting hatred and enmity - incitement to violence, bloody revenge, appeals justifying the need for the use of physical force. It is noteworthy that in the memorandum, which the Russian Federation sent to the ECHR, it was the Ministry of Justice that recognized that there are no open calls for violence in the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses (paragraph 41).

Now is the perfect time for the Ministry of Justice to apologise and go home!  

This court case needs to be closed in our favour.  

[Bluebell]

14 minutes ago, Samira said:

10:18 ECHR in its judgments clearly determined which texts can be considered to incite hatred and enmity - incitement to violence, to the bloody revenge, calls, justifies the use of physical force. It is noteworthy that in the memorandum, which the Russian Federation has sent to the ECHR, namely the Ministry of Justice has recognized that there are no open calls for violence (p. 41) in the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses.

10:25 Omelchenko said that the community of Jehovah's Witnesses, which the Ministry of Justice asking to liquidate, received numerous awards and commendations from local authorities (there are in fact), but they did not receive warnings about the inadmissibility of extremist activity.

Since no one is posting here it is the next statement:

Edited April 12, 2017 by Samira

[hatcheckgirl]

27 of us here.... Hi to all!

 

here's the link from a few pages back

https://jw-russia.org/pages/17040614-132.html#0412

[Beggar for the Spirit]

(Layman's translation)

Our lawyers ,

"Look! Various local authorities have given us awards and commendations, why would they do that if we were violent or extremists?"

"And if our congregations were involved in 'extremist' activities, why were we given no warnings?"

[jayrtom]

10:31
 Speaking about the disproportion of the measure required by the Ministry of Justice, Omelchenko lists the steps taken by the Jehovah's Witnesses Center: 1) notified all LROs about entering books in the FEMC, 2) created a commission to prevent the appearance of extremist materials, 3) , 4) unsuccessfully asked the Prosecutor General's Office what other measures could be expected from Jehovah's Witnesses to prevent "extremist activity". 

 10:43
 International law prohibits inhuman or degrading treatment.  This norm protects dignity, including the right of a person's mental integrity.  The Ministry of Justice's lawsuit on the prohibition of Jehovah's Witnesses breaks the moral and physical resistance of the individual, forcing them to fear openly professing their faith.  Some of the victims of the criminal prosecution for the faith in Taganrog on leaving the court left the Russian Federation and even received political asylum in Europe.  Their flight eloquently testifies that believers are afraid to openly profess their religion.  Of course, most of the 175,000 believers will not leave Russia, which means they will be persecuted in Russia. 

[Friends just call me Ross]

3 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

27 of us here.... Hi to all!

 

here's the link from a few pages back

https://jw-russia.org/pages/17040614-132.html#0412

Hi Sister Lucy!

 

Updaters, thanks for removing the formatting.  It makes it so much easier to follow along.

[Jothob]

Hi all...thank you for the updates. I'm working today at a branch relocation so can catch up on the updates provided by you! So thank you. Let's keep our Russian brothers in our prayers today........

[hatcheckgirl]

2 minutes ago, jayrtom said:

Some of the victims of the criminal prosecution for the faith in Taganrog on leaving the court left the Russian Federation and even received political asylum in Europe.  Their flight eloquently testifies that believers are afraid to openly profess their religion.  Of course, most of the 175,000 believers will not leave Russia, which means they will be persecuted in Russia. 

That is what we were discussing in another thread.

 

 

[Beggar for the Spirit]

(Layman's translation)

Our lawyers:

"Now let's talk about how this lawsuit violates International Law which forbids inhumane treatment, and that is not just concerning physical abuse, but this includes forbidding any government from trying to strip away the dignity of any human! And if a person is trying to maintain moral integrity but a government wants to break that integrity and not allow a person to speak out in public about his beliefs or even makes the person scared to do so, then that government has broken the law, international law!"

Edited April 12, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[sunshine]

No Lucy fleeing is not wrong.  Jesus said if you are persecuted in one area flee to another so you can continue the work.  The Christians in the first century including Philip, moved when there was a wave of persecution... .  Sometimes when its too dangerous in an country for the missionaries they will reassign them to another country... so it's definitely a personal choice.

Edited April 12, 2017 by sunshine

[Bluebell]

10:50     Omelchenko analyzes the legality of actions of the Ministry of Justice. By applicable law, Jehovah's Witnesses are recognized as victims of political repression. At the Ministry of Justice (among other institutions) the law imposed a duty to promote the rehabilitation of the faithful. However Justice moves in the opposite direction. Omelchenko lists domestic and international calls for Russia to stop politically motivated persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses, the misuse of anti-extremist legislation as applied to Jehovah's Witnesses. It is, for example, on the signing of the most well-known Russian human rights activists appeal "Repressive again being harassed", on the open letter of the Moscow Helsinki Group, as well as appeals from various structures in Europe, the Organization for Security and Co-operation, the United Nations and others. international standards on the prevention of repression, require to pay close attention to the signals coming from the human rights community. The Ministry of Justice is ignoring all the signals, continues to act as a repressive body

[Bluebell]

11:04      Omelchenko says biased position of the Justice Ministry. Expert institutions under the Ministry of Justice came to the mutually exclusive conclusions in respect of the same materials as the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Ministry of Justice did nothing to correct the situation. Moreover, the Ministry of Justice has always insisted on using only the conclusions of experts, who found "signs of extremism" in the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses. This is further evidence that the action of the Justice Ministry to ban Jehovah's Witnesses politically motivated.

[jayrtom]

6 minutes ago, Samira said:

10:50     Omelchenko analyzes the legality of actions of the Ministry of Justice. By applicable law, Jehovah's Witnesses are recognized as victims of political repression. At the Ministry of Justice (among other institutions) the law imposed a duty to promote the rehabilitation of the faithful. However Justice moves in the opposite direction. Omelchenko lists domestic and international calls for Russia to stop politically motivated persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses, the misuse of anti-extremist legislation as applied to Jehovah's Witnesses. It is, for example, on the signing of the most well-known Russian human rights activists appeal "Repressive again being harassed", on the open letter of the Moscow Helsinki Group, as well as appeals from various structures in Europe, the Organization for Security and Co-operation, the United Nations and others. international standards on the prevention of repression, require to pay close attention to the signals coming from the human rights community. The Ministry of Justice is ignoring all the signals, continues to act as a repressive body

I woder why your translation is different than mine... I'm using google translate and assume you are too...

 

10:50
 Omelchenko analyzes the legality of the actions of the Ministry of Justice.  By current legislation, Jehovah's Witnesses are recognized as victims of political repression.  At the Ministry of Justice (among other departments) the law imposes the obligation to promote the rehabilitation of believers.  However, the Ministry of Justice is moving in the opposite direction.  Omelchenko lists domestic and international appeals to the Russian Federation to stop the politically motivated persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses, the misuse of anti-extremist legislation in relation to Jehovah's Witnesses.  It is, for example, the appeal signed by the most famous Russian human rights activists, "The Repressive Again Persist", the open address of the Moscow Helsinki Group, as well as the appeals from various structures in the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the United Nations, and others. International standards for preventing repression, require that close attention be paid to the signals coming from the human rights community.  The Ministry of Justice, while ignoring all incoming signals, continues to act as a repressive body. 

 

[Beggar for the Spirit]

(Layman's translation)

Our lawyers:

"Phones calls are coming in from all over Russia and even coming in internationally from major human rights organizations that are pleading for a stop to this wrongful persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses. This persecution is seen as not having good motives, but is political! The world is sending the Ministry of Justice signals saying that there is a terrible mistake of labeling Jehovah's Witnesses as extremists. The Ministry of Justice is ignoring all of these signals, phone calls, etc, and is just determined to persecute this innocent group of people"

 

 

[Bluebell]

at the moment I am using the original jw-russia.org   because the google translation website

is little bit slower.....

[DinaG.]

20 minutes ago, Samira said:

10:50     Omelchenko analyzes the legality of actions of the Ministry of Justice. By applicable law, Jehovah's Witnesses are recognized as victims of political repression. At the Ministry of Justice (among other institutions) the law imposed a duty to promote the rehabilitation of the faithful. However Justice moves in the opposite direction. Omelchenko lists domestic and international calls for Russia to stop politically motivated persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses, the misuse of anti-extremist legislation as applied to Jehovah's Witnesses. It is, for example, on the signing of the most well-known Russian human rights activists appeal "Repressive again being harassed", on the open letter of the Moscow Helsinki Group, as well as appeals from various structures in Europe, the Organization for Security and Co-operation, the United Nations and others. international standards on the prevention of repression, require to pay close attention to the signals coming from the human rights community. The Ministry of Justice is ignoring all the signals, continues to act as a repressive body

the most well-known Russian human rights activists appeal "Repressive again being harassed" - this apeal can be read here http://www.hro.org/node/7232 

 

translated into english https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hro.org%2Fnode%2F7232&edit-text=

Edited April 12, 2017 by Dina Gavrilenko

[Beggar for the Spirit]

(Layman's translation)

Our lawyers:

"So what we are saying is that the Ministry of Justice is bias or prejudice. Because even 'experts' have concluded that the books and brochures of Jehovah's Witnesses are not "extremist" or call for violence. Yet the Ministry of Justice ignores these many experts and will not stop persecuting. So there is something wrong here, there must be bias or prejudice in the motives of the Ministry of Justice for only accepting any expert who says that the literature does contain some extremist words or statements. Otherwise why doesn't the Ministry of Justice accept the conclusions of many other expert institutions?"

Edited April 12, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[sunshine]

BREAKDOWN OF THE MORNING SOFAR  (Simplified rundown) 

 

9"58 Our Lawye explains how he will be showing that this ban it totally illegal.  

 

- The Russian law, and even the  European Court (Highest court in Europe) show that banning Jehovah's Witnesses is wrong.  

- The European court has already said that nothing in the JWs literature encourages violence.

-  And it's a fact, JWs get many awards for good work but never any warnings that our work makes people violent extremists.

 

10"31  They want to close the Bethel because we distribute "extremist" literature but

 

- as soon as the books were banned we sent a letter to all the congregations telling them which books were banned.

- we set up a special group to make sure nothing dangerous ever appeared in our books

- we told the authorities when we saw that other people planted (put) banned books in our kingdom halls 

- we ASKED the authorities if there was anything else we could do to please them on this matter.  They didn't tell us.

 

10"43  International law says you cannot oppress people making them afraid to worship , but if you ban JWs they will be afraid to worship openly.  It's already happened in Taganrog, some have even had to leave  the country and have been welcomed in other European countries as victims of  persecution.   Of  course  most Witnesses cannot flee the country, they will be forced to say and be persecuted.

 

10"50   Our Lawyer continues:  Now think about it - these same authorities that said Jehovah's Witnesss were victims of State persecution  and were sorry for their suffering are now trying to use the State to persecute them, again.

 

 Lots of other people are saying do not ban the Witnesses, international organizations (the Helsinki Commission, even the United Nations) A famous Russian Human Rights activist say its "harassment".  The MoJ (Ministry of Justice ) is pretty much ignoring the entire international community of Human rights.

 

11"04  Furthermore, when the MoJ says "experts" said our books cause "extremism" , remember they had the opinion of many people, some said our literature was  perfectly fine others said it was dangerous.... how come the MoJ ALWAYS only accepted the opinion of experts that were against the Witnesses and never listened to any that were for us?  This proves  this ban more about politics than justice.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Very good breakdown Rosie, I think you are the best translator, I will give you the floor. 

I am too slow also.