Serena Williams and fiancé expecting first child

[cricket246]

To be honest my first reaction wasn't really shocked but irritated with her actions, given what both her and her sister have done in the medias sight prior to this... But given the fact that the news media loves putting most things in a negative light, I wonder if her and her so-called fiance could possibly be married already privately and her managers are just putting her in that light for publicity purposes... Only Jehovah knows and He will deal justly with each... <3 

[carlos]

19 hours ago, vern said:

mercy is not a sin...........  not responding to it is more of an issue..... so be merciful and let others decide if they will respond to it.

Vern, I know mercy is one of your favorite subjects. Your points are good. Jehovah is very much willing to forgive when there is repentance.

 

But saying that a person demonstrates by her actions that she's not one of Jehovah's Witnesses is not being overly critical nor judging her nor sending her to Gehenna. My workmates are not JWs and their acts demonstrate that. People who live an immoral life cannot be part of the congregation unless they repent.

 

So I don't understand what you are seeing objectionable in those comments.

[Thesauron]

People in this territory where I live who claim to be Jehovah's witnesses but do not show it in their lives are no witnesses. A Witness is something you become by your actions and obedience. She is welcome back when she wants to (if indeed she was ever baptised), but until then she is no Witness. Her focus is her game, not the Kingdom.


Johan

[vern]

So were all worried about Jehovah's name:  and that's a good thing; and its the central thing that Jesus had an issue with in the way he died for us in that Jehovah's name would be hurt by the wicked religious leaders.

 

Divine Justice = the balance between Judgement and mercy.

 

What kind of God is Jehovah?   merciful or judgemental?  which honors him most?

 

Its kind of a hard balance to get to be sure as there are many persons who are not repentant persons.  But the bottom line is that its Jehovah's decision ultimately.  He's the creator;  he's the father.

 

Why do we not want to be overly critical?

1) Math 5:22 "... ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Ge·henʹna.*+ "
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006127?q=despicable&p=par
"What, then, did the expression “despicable fool” signify? The word used here sounded similar to a Hebrew term that means “rebellious,” or “mutinous.” It designates a person as morally worthless, an apostate and a rebel against God. So the person addressing his fellow as a “despicable fool” is as much as saying that his brother should receive a punishment fit for a rebel against God, everlasting destruction. From God’s standpoint, the one uttering such a condemnation against another could merit that severe sentence—everlasting destruction—himself.—Deuteronomy 19:17-19. "

 

2) James 2:13 " For the one who does not practice mercy will have his judgment without mercy.+ Mercy triumphs over judgment."

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002166?q=mercy+triumphs&p=par

"Isaiah prophesied: “Jehovah will keep in expectation of showing you favor, and therefore he will rise up to show you mercy. For Jehovah is a God of judgment [“justice,” The New English Bible].” (Isaiah 30:18) Isaiah here shows that Jehovah’s justice motivates acts of mercy rather than that his mercy softens or restrains his justice. Jehovah shows mercy because he is just and also because he is loving."

"True, the Bible writer James wrote: “Mercy exults triumphantly over judgment.” (James 2:13b) However, in context James is speaking not of Jehovah but of Christians who show mercy—for example, toward the afflicted and the poor. (James 1:27; 2:1-9) When such merciful ones are brought into judgment, Jehovah takes note of their conduct and mercifully forgives them on the basis of his Son’s sacrifice. Thus, their merciful conduct triumphs over any adverse judgment they might have been liable for.—Proverbs 14:21; Matthew 5:7; 6:12; 7:2."

3) James 1:26" If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God* but does not keep a tight rein on* his tongue,+ he is deceiving his own heart, "

James 3:8 "But no human can tame the tongue. It is unruly and injurious, full of deadly poison.+ 9 With it we praise Jehovah,* the Father, and yet with it we curse men who have come into existence “in the likeness of God.”+ 10 Out of the same mouth come blessing and cursing.

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006686#h=6:0-9:585 "Undoubtedly, he was familiar with the Bible proverb that compares thoughtless words to “the stabs of a sword.” In contrast, the same proverb says that “the tongue of the wise ones is a healing.” (Proverbs 12:18) "

 

 

 

Look;  i know the william girls have been making some unwise choices;  Its not the example we would want to look at.  but i don't think being critical is a good example either.  being a critical person does not honor Jehovah either.  It can put Jehovah in the bad position of seeming unmerciful and unwilling to forgive; making Jehovah unmerciful can destroy a persons hope in that they can be "allowed' to repent then they feel a label of being a "sinner" and don't even try to repent.  so controlling the tongue helps not to put stumbling blocks in the congregation more then neccessary.

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, vern said:

Look;  i know the william girls have been making some unwise choices;  Its not the example we would want to look at.  but i don't think being critical is a good example either.  being a critical person does not honor Jehovah either.  It can put Jehovah in the bad position of seeming unmerciful and unwilling to forgive; making Jehovah unmerciful can destroy a persons hope in that they can be "allowed' to repent then they feel a label of being a "sinner" and don't even try to repent.  so controlling the tongue helps not to put stumbling blocks in the congregation more then neccessary.

 

Who is being critical?

 

Is there any way we can discuss this subject without being judged as being critical?

[Skyler]

1 hour ago, vern said:

Look;  i know the william girls have been making some unwise choices;  Its not the example we would want to look at.  but i don't think being critical is a good example either.  being a critical person does not honor Jehovah either.  It can put Jehovah in the bad position of seeming unmerciful and unwilling to forgive; making Jehovah unmerciful can destroy a persons hope in that they can be "allowed' to repent then they feel a label of being a "sinner" and don't even try to repent.  so controlling the tongue helps not to put stumbling blocks in the congregation more then neccessary.

You speak the truth in that Jehovah is our only judge, but you seem to be twisting it out of context to fit your point.

 

If prophets like Jeremiah were never "critical" of those who were unrepentant, how would the congregation ever be kept clean? What would have been to point of prophesying against the Israelities if he were supposed to let them do whatever they wanted, and leave it in Jehovah's hands? Jehovah puts brothers here on Earth for this very purpose, to shepherd the sheep and protect them from wolf-like influences that try to invade the congregation. What kind of influence do you think this puts on those who would have come into the truth, but decide against it, believing  we are just as the world, hypocrites?

 

 

[Nnaemeka]

We do appreciate your highlighting Jehovah's mercy brother Richard. But the comments in this thread are based on facts about the Williams sisters. The brothers are not being critical. All they are saying is that they bring dishonor to Jehovah's name when they portray themselves as JWs but live immoral lifestyles publicly. No JW would be happy about it. I think you are the one being critical - by stating that we should overlook moral transgressions that would lead to a disfellowshipping if they were baptized on the premise that we want to be merciful. The Williams sisters have shown themselves by what is read in the media to be unrepentantly sexually immoral. Jehovah is holy; he would not accept such a lifestyle. We as his servants try to imitate him; I think that is what you brother Richard is critical of and I see your judgement as scripturally unbalanced.

[seagull]

The people around you and me that we interact with regularly could not care less about what Serena Williams says or does and how we think it may reflect on Jehovah's Witnesses.  I doubt it even registers with them.

 

They will care about what you and I do however.  They will notice our behaviour and make opinions of us based on that.   For me that's of far more concern than anything some personality with a tenuous link to Jehovah's Witnesses says or does.

 

[vern]

I'm being critical   ....   -.-   

 

they still are good scriptures to meditate on.

 

they aren't taking the lead.

they aren't baptised.

they aren't making claims to be a good example?

they aren't religious leaders?

they aren't teachers?

they aren't anything as far as i know other then more in the spot light then most for playing a sport called tennis.

 

anywayz. my point's been made.  you decide for yourself.  pretty much what christians need to do.  I'm not here to make anyone do whatever.  not my place.

[1gemstone]

Maybe, Serena, has knowingly or unknowingly drifted so far away from God's word, that she does not realizes that she has brought reproach on Jehovah's name.

 

I think the only way one would know that they are bringing reproach on God's name, they would have to have a daily feeding on God's word on a regular basis to know this is what they are doing, whether they are baptize or not.

 

 Serena, may come to terms with her faith when she becomes a mom, there will be a many issues that she will be faced with when rearing a child, or maybe she won't.     

 

If you'll pardon the pun, we can serve two masters.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Cushi]

12 minutes ago, 1gemstone said:

Maybe, Serena, has knowingly or unknowingly drifted so far away from God's word, that she does not realizes that she has brought reproach on Jehovah's name.

 

I think the only way one would know that they are bringing reproach on God's name, they would have to have a daily feeding on God's word on a regular basis to know this is what they are doing, whether they are baptize or not.

 

 Serena, may come to terms with her faith when she becomes a mom, there will be a many issues that she will be faced with when rearing a child, or maybe she won't.     

 

If you'll pardon the pun, we can serve two masters.

 

Just my 2 cents.

I don't think she's ignorant of the fact that she's brought reproach on Jehovah's name. Anyone who has been raised in the truth, publicly praises Jehovah, and then gets pregnant in the public eye has to know that they've brought reproach on Jehovah's name.

[Thesauron]

I'm being critical   ....   -.-   
 
they still are good scriptures to meditate on.
 
they aren't taking the lead.
they aren't baptised.
they aren't making claims to be a good example?
they aren't religious leaders?
they aren't teachers?
they aren't anything as far as i know other then more in the spot light then most for playing a sport called tennis.
 
anywayz. my point's been made.  you decide for yourself.  pretty much what christians need to do.  I'm not here to make anyone do whatever.  not my place.

They do, as far as I understand, claim to be Jehovah's Witnesses, and I am critical of them taking that esteemed name in vain in the public eye, proving by doing so that they are not Witnesses of the superior way of the Almighty. But, when they repent and return, they will be welcomed.


Johan

[trottigy]

If you want privacy you don't post pictures of yourself and your business on a public website like Snapchat.

 

If she didn't know better, why immediately remove the pictures?

 

I'm just glad to not have her claim to be a witness for now.

[Miss Bea]

6 minutes ago, trottigy said:

If you want privacy you don't post pictures of yourself and your business on a public website like Snapchat.

 

If she didn't know better, why immediately remove the pictures?

 

I'm just glad to not have her claim to be a witness for now.

Precisely!

[booboo]

8 minutes ago, trottigy said:

I'm just glad to not have her claim to be a witness for now

Amen to that!

[New World Explorer]

On 22/04/2017 at 3:52 AM, vern said:

Jehovah isn't merciful then?

 

What ruins Jehovah's name more? 

Richard, We are not talking here about Jehovah's mercy and how it is applied  (this is obvious that anyone repentant Jehovah will receive)

We are talking that Serena vocally claimed that her God is Jehovah and yet her actions prove otherwise, currently she is choosing "broad and specious road" simple as that.

 

I really have difficulty to understand what point are you making?

 

Please tell what warning Jesus gave below:

“Go in through the narrow gate,” Jesus next said, “because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.” (Matthew 7:13, 14) Many in those days chose the road to destruction and many still do.

The broad way permits people to think as they please and live as they please: no rules, no commitments, just a relaxed life-style, everything easy. None of this “exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door” for them!—Luke 13:24. W90 10/1

 

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, trottigy said:

 

 

If she didn't know better, why immediately remove the pictures?

 

Maybe because her PR department said that was not the best way to announce the news. Obviously she didn't remove the post out of some sense of remorse.  They went and made a very public announcement. 

 

Image, PR, brand identity. Those factor in the decision.  She is a very public figure. There are right ways and wrong ways for public figures to break news that have nothing to do with religion. 

[vern]

The christian arrangement is based on faith; undeserved kindness; the free gift;  we exercise faith spiritually;  we don't get a good standing with God based on works but based on the ransom arrangement and all of Jehovah's good qualities of loyalty, humility, love, mercy, loving kindness etc etc etc.... 

 

He knows were sinners and yet has made arrangements for our good to help us to get out of it.  He wants us to succeed.  If he is willing to put up with sin and imperfection until the day arrives that we can be faithful and endure in the ways of time indefinite; then we too should wait patiently till all can endure in the ways of time indefinite.  Jehovah's word clearly says to practice mercy.  Yes this is not permissive;  yes Jehovah's standards remain the same; its just we can find peace even though there is sin around us.  can you imagine Jesus being critical of everyone around him?  What could he say about his mother and father and brothers and sisters.... he was perfect;  he saw all there sins;  and yet he never seemed to focus on them.   If you meditate on how he was with the wicked religious rulers he tried to reason with them,  even though they didn't listen.  he tried to tell them that they were playing with Gehenna.  And he did pray for the mass crowd that helped kill him that they be forgiven.

All i see is that your being critical of a women that is going to get married and take care of her child.  She waited a pretty decent stretch to have a child.  There's lots of cases of teenagers raised in the truth that leave a year or so get pregnant then come back in and everyone takes them in with open arms and they get so much love.  i could see this happening a couple years ago.  Not much i an do about it.  Jehovah will see to it that whatever lack of blessing may be waranted will happen;  but what if he wants her to play the prodical son?

well.... maby i don't understand what you all are so angry about with her?   I don't goto the gossip news agency's to keep track of all the "witnesses"  who are "famous'  in this world to see whats up with them.  So if she "deserves" a tongue lashing?  i guess i have no clue..... but for me and my tongue....  i'll try to keep out of it as its Jehovah's decision what he wants to do with his sons and daughters here on earth.

[Old]

2 hours ago, Gregexplore said:

 

 Serena vocally claimed that her God is Jehovah and yet her actions prove otherwise [?], 

 

I think that her God is still Jehovah. Willful sin does not take that away. Think about it, was David's God still Jehovah while he was plotting the death of Uriah. I have sat through far to many judicial meetings and not once have I heard anybody denounce Jehovah, Not once, even when they were by their own words willfully unrepentant. 

Will she see fit to make the neccesary changes  to allow her to dedicate herself to Jehovah? Remains to be seen. 

Does anybody on this forum personally know her? We don't judge the world, why are we judging her. Apparently she is not a baptized Witness of Jehovah. Was the privilege of being an unbaptised publisher taken away from her or did service just fade away through inactivety?

 

Trottigy said it, "I'm just glad to not have to claim her to be a Witness for now" I can go along with that.

 

[New World Explorer]

47 minutes ago, Old said:

I have sat through far to many judicial meetings and not once have I heard anybody denounce Jehovah, Not once, even when they were by their own words willfully unrepentant. 

I've been only sitting on 1 judicial committee so I don't have same experience like you but I've never said anything about her denouncing Jehovah.

My point was simple  "At the moment she is traveling on a broad and specious road"

What future action she will take? I don't know.

[New World Explorer]

1 hour ago, vern said:

The christian arrangement is based on faith; undeserved kindness; the free gift;  we exercise faith spiritually;  we don't get a good standing with God based on works but based on the ransom arrangement and all of Jehovah's good qualities of loyalty, humility, love, mercy, loving kindness etc etc etc.... 

 

He knows were sinners and yet has made arrangements for our good to help us to get out of it.  He wants us to succeed.  If he is willing to put up with sin and imperfection until the day arrives that we can be faithful and endure in the ways of time indefinite; then we too should wait patiently till all can endure in the ways of time indefinite.  Jehovah's word clearly says to practice mercy.  Yes this is not permissive;  yes Jehovah's standards remain the same; its just we can find peace even though there is sin around us.  can you imagine Jesus being critical of everyone around him?  What could he say about his mother and father and brothers and sisters.... he was perfect;  he saw all there sins;  and yet he never seemed to focus on them.   If you meditate on how he was with the wicked religious rulers he tried to reason with them,  even though they didn't listen.  he tried to tell them that they were playing with Gehenna.  And he did pray for the mass crowd that helped kill him that they be forgiven.

All i see is that your being critical of a women that is going to get married and take care of her child.  She waited a pretty decent stretch to have a child.  There's lots of cases of teenagers raised in the truth that leave a year or so get pregnant then come back in and everyone takes them in with open arms and they get so much love.  i could see this happening a couple years ago.  Not much i an do about it.  Jehovah will see to it that whatever lack of blessing may be waranted will happen;  but what if he wants her to play the prodical son?

well.... maby i don't understand what you all are so angry about with her?   I don't goto the gossip news agency's to keep track of all the "witnesses"  who are "famous'  in this world to see whats up with them.  So if she "deserves" a tongue lashing?  i guess i have no clue..... but for me and my tongue....  i'll try to keep out of it as its Jehovah's decision what he wants to do with his sons and daughters here on earth.

Richard nobody here is critical of her.

I will quote perfect comment from Carlos (post27)

But saying that a person demonstrates by her actions that she's not one of Jehovah's Witnesses is not being overly critical nor judging her nor sending her to Gehenna.

(end of quote from Carlos)

 

Back to my comments:

Universal mercy or forgiveness is the popular teaching in Christendom.

 

Jehovah forgives if we follow these steps:

Jehovah forgives “in a large way,” as is indicated by Jesus’ illustrations of the prodigal son and of the king who forgave a slave a debt of 10,000 talents (60,000,000 denarii, or c. $40,000,000), whereas that slave was unwilling to forgive a fellow slave a debt of but a hundred denarii (c. $70). (Isa 55:7; Lu 15:11-32; Mt 18:23-35) Nevertheless, Jehovah’s forgiveness is not prompted by sentimentality, for he does not leave notorious acts unpunished. (Ps 99:8) Joshua warned Israel that Jehovah would not forgive apostasy on their part.—Jos 24:19, 20; compare Isa 2:6-9.
God has a required way for seeking and receiving his forgiveness. A person must acknowledge his sin, recognize that it is an offense against God, confess it unqualifiedly, have a deep heartfelt sorrow for the wrong done, and have a determination to turn from such a course or practice. (Ps 32:5; 51:4; 1Jo 1:8, 9; 2Co 7:8-11) He must do what he can to right the wrong or damage done. (Mt 5:23, 24) Then he must pray to God, asking for forgiveness on the basis of Christ’s ransom sacrifice.—Eph 1:7; see REPENTANCE.

 

But I still don't understand why we discuss mercy in relation to the news about her pregnancy?

Someone implied that she is beyond Jehovah's mercy now? (Because that would be wrong, very wrong)

 

 

[vern]

On 4/21/2017 at 1:19 AM, Gregexplore said:

What's the point of being on the forum if we can't express our feelings and opinions?

 

 

I've said the principles i think with and have been meditating on for awhile now.   I've quoted the scriptures and used very little commentary and quoted the FDS literature.   Whether I'm balanced or not in my thinking that's a different issue.   trust me--- i know i'm different----  painfully---- I know I'm different...  Guess I'm in Jehovah's hands....

[Thesauron]

 
 
I've said the principles i think with and have been meditating on for awhile now.   I've quoted the scriptures and used very little commentary and quoted the FDS literature.   Whether I'm balanced or not in my thinking that's a different issue.   trust me--- i know i'm different----  painfully---- I know I'm different...  Guess I'm in Jehovah's hands....

If an unbaptised person raised in the truth were to lead an immoral life and perhaps even be in the public eye all the while claiming to be a Jehovah's Witness, do we have the right to react with indignation?


Johan

[LeslieDean]

I believe so. 

Its a privledge, not a right,  to be one of Jehovah's servants. 

It takes knowledge and a willingness to make changes.  That makes the difference between ' aiming to be'and  'hitting the target'.   Once we take in knowledge, make changes, dedicate and become a baptized witness,  we are then witnesses.  We are held to certain standards. And acknowledge this prior to our baptism. Do we quit making mistakes?  I wish that were the case. Unfortunately, we make mistakes, sometimes willfully.  But we recognize, seek help and forgive ness and amends when necessary. But we continue to serve our GOD.  

Do you consider someone leading a double life as a witness?  They may have been baptized but are they upholding Jehovah's standards?  What happens if they continue to put on a lie?  They will be disfellowshipped.  Then what is the course?  They will be announced as being 'no longer one of Jehovah's witnesses'. 

[Shawnster]

If she wasn't a public figure, Serena Williams would not be a topic of conversation or a concern for us.  It's not (only) her claims and connections to Jehovah's people, it's also her fame that has caused all this conversation.  

 

People in the public eye are naturally talked about more.