Huge fire engulfs West London Tower Block

[ChrisC]

20 hours ago, Friends just call me Ross said:

Yes.  The hood would save you from the smoke but not from superheated air.

Only a self-contained breathing apparatus /SCBA will provide complete protection, i.e. from both smoke and superheated air.

A wet towel held over your nose and mouth is better than nothing, and stick as close to the floor as possible,

cuz that's where there's the coolest, clearest air.

I try to always get a hotel room on the first floor and I make sure I know where all the exits are located, 

in case I have to find them in the dark.  Not likely, since I always pack a couple flashlights/torches. 

How does a SCBA cool the superheated air?

[Friends just call me Ross]

 

4 minutes ago, ChrisTheConfused said:

How does a SCBA cool the superheated air?

It doesn't.  When you are breathing the air in the bottle on your back,

your lungs are just not exposed to the superheated air surrounding you.

[ChrisC]

Of course! Hence the 'self contained'. 

[Jothob]

5 hours ago, Friends just call me Ross said:

The anguished look on this firefighter's face sort a' sums up the sick feeling we are all experiencing:

 

Sad to say, but there is no way only 18 people died in this inferno.  No way.

Exactly! Personally from what I'm hearing on the news it's more likely to be lots & lots more as they've not recovered anyone from the top floors.....and they're now saying some residents may never be able to be identified! How very tragic & sad.... :-(  :-(

[thegreenjudy]

Seems they have been using non-fire resistant  type of cladding that has been illegal in some countries  for a few years in high buildings. 

 

This is only the tip of the iceberg.. once again it shows how greedy cooperations are cutting corners to save a few bobs. The community has been telling the housing management for years that the building requires sprinklers and a better fire policy - heads will be rolling over this. 

 

 

[retroHelen]

I watched with horror when this came on TV.  Then I listened to the fire safety officers on the radio analysis. They do not know what caused the fire, and could not and would not speculate on that. However, it was obvious to any observers where the main problem occurred. The cladding on the building that was retro-fitted recently outside. This was a fibrous soft insulation with a thin skin over it - Supposed to save on heating in the winter and keep it cool in summer.

 

The insulation fibre was the cheapest the Social Housing association could afford, not the best, and was highly flammable , but was allowed because the thin outer skin of plaster or aluminium was supposed to be fire-proof. However, the outer skin just fell off or just melted off in the heat of the fire on the insulation material. The insulation material burned very quickly and so hot with such high flames that the fire truck ladders could not get near the windows to get people out.  It burned with black toxic smoke which seemed to be drawn into the stairs and rooms of the buildings and overwhelmed many people before they burned.

 

The advice to people in there, in case of fire, was not to evacuate (except on the lowest floors), but to stay in the apartments and put wet towels to their doors and they would be rescued - presumably on the first 8 floors by the windows onto fire ladders - but they could not get near windows because of the flames and heat. 

 

A number died because like at 9/11 they jumped out of windows or threw out their children - some were caught, but the heat of the fire, and falling flaming cladding,  meant that people could not get near enough to the building to hold out stuff to catch them with. Some lowered knotted sheets to climb down, but the cladding set fire to it.

 

Reports are starting to come in from around the world - Dubai, Melbourne Australia, Singapore, Shanghai of very similar fires where outside insulation cladding for warmth in winter and keeping cool in summer had been very flammable and acted as an accelerant to the flames and the tower blocks went up like blow torches. 

 

People in the neighbourhood of the London tower block had to wear face-masks. Streets and roofs were being covered with smouldering chunks of the burning cladding as it blew onto them.

 

Death toll will rise, because they don't give out numbers until they have positively identified as many as they can - maybe nothing left to identify. The building was still burning inside way after the fire that went on all night. They were using drones, as the upper floors of the building are too dangerous to go round. 

 

They are putting polystyrene cladding on the outside of houses around us now. We live on a Government/Council/Social Housing Estate. We bought our home because repairs were not getting done at that time and if we bought it after being in 17 years (Right-to-Buy-Scheme), we could get it half price and pay a mortgage at 1/5th the rent per week. We bought it and did repairs ourselves. So glad I am not suffering the weeks of disruption and churned up gardens having this cladding on, then worrying about it being very flammable. Also, the skin over it is so thin that if people put a ladder against the wall it cracks up/bends apart and lets water in. People can't run cables through their walls unless they have special insulation round them as the polystyrene melts normal cable insulation. Then they have to have special membranes put on their floors, etc because the insulation causes condensation/damp problems, so all their previous carpets and flooring gets ripped out. It's the Council's property and you have no say about it - Like the poor souls complaining about the fire safety in that tower block for years.

Edited June 16, 2017 by retroHelen

[BibleSteve]

30 people now confirmed dead and the figure expected to rise as more than 60 missing but due to the unsafe nature of the structure it is difficult for the process of searching to take place quickly.

[Friends just call me Ross]

1 hour ago, retroHelen said:

I watched with horror when this came on TV.  Then I listened to the fire safety officers on the radio analysis. They do not know what caused the fire, and could not and would not speculate on that. However, it was obvious to any observers where the main problem occurred. The cladding on the building that was retro-fitted recently outside. This was a fibrous soft insulation with a thin skin over it - Supposed to save on heating in the winter and keep it cool in summer.

 

The insulation fibre was the cheapest the Social Housing association could afford, not the best, and was highly flammable , but was allowed because the thin outer skin of plaster or aluminium was supposed to be fire-proof. However, the outer skin just fell off or just melted off in the heat of the fire on the insulation material. The insulation material burned very quickly and so hot with such high flames that the fire truck ladders could not get near the windows to get people out.  It burned with black toxic smoke which seemed to be drawn into the stairs and rooms of the buildings and overwhelmed many people before they burned.

 

The advice to people in there, in case of fire, was not to evacuate (except on the lowest floors), but to stay in the apartments and put wet towels to their doors and they would be rescued - presumably on the first 8 floors by the windows onto fire ladders - but they could not get near windows because of the flames and heat. 

 

A number died because like at 9/11 they jumped out of windows or threw out their children - some were caught, but the heat of the fire, and falling flaming cladding,  meant that people could not get near enough to the building to hold out stuff to catch them with. Some lowered knotted sheets to climb down, but the cladding set fire to it.

 

Reports are starting to come in from around the world - Dubai, Melbourne Australia, Singapore, Shanghai of very similar fires where outside insulation cladding for warmth in winter and keeping cool in summer had been very flammable and acted as an accelerant to the flames and the tower blocks went up like blow torches. 

 

People in the neighbourhood of the London tower block had to wear face-masks. Streets and roofs were being covered with smouldering chunks of the burning cladding as it blew onto them.

 

Death toll will rise, because they don't give out numbers until they have positively identified as many as they can - maybe nothing left to identify. The building was still burning inside way after the fire that went on all night. They were using drones, as the upper floors of the building are too dangerous to go round. 

 

They are putting polystyrene cladding on the outside of houses around us now. We live on a Government/Council/Social Housing Estate. We bought our home because repairs were not getting done at that time and if we bought it after being in 17 years (Right-to-Buy-Scheme), we could get it half price and pay a mortgage at 1/5th the rent per week. We bought it and did repairs ourselves. So glad I am not suffering the weeks of disruption and churned up gardens having this cladding on, then worrying about it being very flammable. Also, the skin over it is so thin that if people put a ladder against the wall it cracks up/bends apart and lets water in. People can't run cables through their walls unless they have special insulation round them as the polystyrene melts normal cable insulation. Then they have to have special membranes put on their floors, etc because the insulation causes condensation/damp problems, so all their previous carpets and flooring gets ripped out. It's the Council's property and you have no say about it - Like the poor souls complaining about the fire safety in that tower block for years.

 

And it enrages me!!!

Because the love of money drives it all.  Putting people's lives in peril--just to line their pockets.

Soothing to know that this greedy mindset will soon be a thing of the past.

Soon, very very soon, we will never have to read such disturbing news again. 

Quote

"...Amen!  Come, Lord Jesus." 

     ----Revelation 22:20 b

[Chris7]

4 hours ago, Friends just call me Ross said:

And it enrages me!!!

Because the love of money drives it all.  Putting people's lives in peril--just to line their pockets.

Soothing to know that this greedy mindset will soon be a thing of the past.

Soon, very very soon, we will never have to read such disturbing news again. 

Indeed, those responsible are really blood guilty.

Under the Mosaic Law your building had to be safe....

The Law of Moses made safety an official policy of God’s people. For example, an Israelite who was building a house had to install a parapet, a low wall or railing built at the edge of the roof. Because people were often up on the flat roofs of their homes, the parapets kept them from falling off. (1 Sam. 9:26; Matt. 24:17) If an accident took place because this safety law had not been observed, Jehovah held the householder responsible.—Deut. 22:8.

[harmania]

So much death in the news everyday.

[DavidMc]

Were any of our bro and sis involved in the tower fire?

[SUNRAY]

On 6/15/2017 at 8:40 AM, Chris7 said:

A friend reported the Bethel service desk said that their were two witness families that both got out safely. 

This previous post is encouraging concerning 2 Witness families..

[Chris7]

16 hours ago, SUNRAY said:

This previous post is encouraging concerning 2 Witness families..

** this further news was messaged by a friend **

FORWARD from HLC:
There were 3 JW families in the tower block fire. All got out safely. One pioneer sister said - she smelt smoke in the middle of the night, looked out, saw the flames, grabbed her mum and Go bags and were off. They are in a better state than most !

[William]

8 hours ago, Chris7 said:

** this further news was messaged by a friend **

FORWARD from HLC:
There were 3 JW families in the tower block fire. All got out safely. One pioneer sister said - she smelt smoke in the middle of the night, looked out, saw the flames, grabbed her mum and Go bags and were off. They are in a better state than most !

One of the 3 families have literally lost everything. Their congregation and the other congregations in the KH are generously donating to assist

[Mykyl]

2 hours ago, William said:

One of the 3 families have literally lost everything. Their congregation and the other congregations in the KH are generously donating to assist

I would have thought all of them would have lost everything. If not by smoke or flame at least by water damage?

[Tortuga]

11 hours ago, Chris7 said:

There were 3 JW families in the tower block fire. All got out safely. One pioneer sister said - she smelt smoke in the middle of the night, looked out, saw the flames, grabbed her mum and Go bags and were off.

I wonder if their theocratic view of material possessions helped saved their lives. 

 

I imagine some people in that type of situation would try to protect their possessions or take them with them, but someone with a balanced view of material things wouldn't hesitate to leave it all behind and get out as quickly as they could. Remember the wife of Lot. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Tortuga

[Woodland]

This was a truly horrendous event.  So pleased to hear that our brothers and sisters are safe.  No doubt those affected would benefit from the comfort the scriptures offer.

[Chris7]

4 hours ago, Woodland said:

This was a truly horrendous event.  So pleased to hear that our brothers and sisters are safe.  No doubt those affected would benefit from the comfort the scriptures offer.

Absolutely, I am sure our brothers and sisters may get the opportunity (at the right time) to share with other neighbors how God is helping them to cope. Jeremiah 29:11 comes to mind a future time of 'peace and not calamity'.  How will this come true? .. only by Kingdom Rule very Soon at hand, please come to the convention and learn more.

[retroHelen]

Photographs of the blackened burned inside of the building are now in the newspapers. 79 officially reported as dead; any others may never be identified - ashes to ashes - the fire was so fierce. On the radio they reported from a fireman that they were called to a flat that was on fire as the fridge was on fire and put the fire out, the flat seemed OK then they realised that fire had got into the wall behind the fire and the flames could be seen at the window and then it all quickly spread in a horrifying way.

 

Now reports are coming out about the refurbishment firm saving only £6000 by using the wrong flammable materials instead of the better more flame-proof stuff - a firm whose management live in luxury houses and have luxury yachts that would have all the latest fire safety and award themselves enormous wages and bonuses out of the business. 

 

There's also been criticism of the Council who, after 3 days still did little to help the many homeless people who have had to rely on local religious, charitable organisations and volunteers for immediate help. There's been no co-ordination from the local government, that's also why it's taking so long to find out who is missing to be sure of who is alive or dead. Even Mrs. May the Prime Minister has been shocked at the poor service the survivors have received. Charities who are on-site say it's more co-ordinated in 3rd World Countries after a disaster! Again the Newspaper then goes on to list the local government executives on enormous wages, some more than the Prime Minister, who haven't been seen doing anything much for their constituents and local people complaining that these were the Councillors that they were previously endlessly petitioning about their building's lack of safety regulations, etc.  

 

[Friends just call me Ross]

 

 

Man's inhumanity to man.

[EccentricM]

1 hour ago, retroHelen said:

There's also been criticism of the Council

That's not surprising.  Where I live, I have to sleep in the living room because the place is damp and mold is airborne. Most of our belongings are all stacked up in the living room and boxed because it is the warmest room. I can't sleep in my room because the damp always made me ill. We had to take up all the carpets because they went black. You can smell it when you walk in through the front door. 

 

We complained to the council but they do not do anything about it, they blame "our life style", (by having curtains, which is "blocking the fresh air" and causing the mold ) but a worker told me that the truth is that they don't want to spend money. The neighbours opposite us have to have their children sleep at the one side of the room because there is water and damp on the one end. The neighbour above us is also sleeping in her living room because of the same problem as us. 

 

Been trying to move out for about... 7 years now, haven't been able to have people round to visit all this time because of it. We used to be very social and even had the field service group at ours for years, but that's all gone out the window due to the situation.

Edited June 20, 2017 by EccentricM

[Old]

The experience the firemen had when they thought they had extinguished the fire correlates with an experience of mine.

In 1969 I was employed by a company that retrofitted buildings with similar material as that used in the tower. My boss and I visited a big fruit processing co-op near Mount Hood in Oregon. The fruit co-op had three big long concrete and brick warehouses they wanted us to insulate on the interior side of the exterior wall.

Contracts were in place and our mission that day was an orientation visit.

When we arrive the manager asked us to wait in his office. He returned in a few minutes with a document from Underwriters Labs. It described a fire in a big Quonset warehouse some 300 feet long, potato storage I believe. The report said a millwright was installing some piping in one end of the building and was using a cutting torch to cut an opening in the exterior wall. The insulation burst into flame, spreading so rapidly that the occupants had to run for the far door. They escapes said it was like they were in a jet engine

My company had been selling the product as “almost” flame proof. You couldn’t light it with a match, if you threw it on a fire and it would char for a few seconds and self extinguish. No one had tested it at a high heat. When it was tested it failed dramatically and the fumes where very toxic. Needless to say, the project was cancelled and a major portion of my employers business and my job went away over night.

 I find it amazing that, 40 years later, anyone would still be using similar material on a high rise construction. 

[hatcheckgirl]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-24/camden-residents-evacuated-amid-concerns-over-apartment-cladding/8648692

 

Rightly, local councils are checking to see if other apartments were also clad with the same "environmentally-friendly" material.  So far, 14 have come back as being combustible, and more will obviously fail the test as well.  What we have, though, is our cities having to check all buildings, not just apartments.  Hotel chains are also needing to reassure that their buildings are safe.  At least one chain, "Premier Inn said Friday it had "concerns" about the material used on some of its buildings, though it is different from the type used at Grenfell Tower."

 

Multiply this out to all buildings in all cities - how reprehensible will this act of greediness turn out to be?

Yes, Jerry, you're right. How could

On 6/21/2017 at 0:59 AM, Old said:

anyone would still be using similar material on a high rise construction. 

 

[nanceebgd46]

7 hours ago, hatcheckgirl said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-24/camden-residents-evacuated-amid-concerns-over-apartment-cladding/8648692

 

Rightly, local councils are checking to see if other apartments were also clad with the same "environmentally-friendly" material.  So far, 14 have come back as being combustible, and more will obviously fail the test as well.  What we have, though, is our cities having to check all buildings, not just apartments.  Hotel chains are also needing to reassure that their buildings are safe.  At least one chain, "Premier Inn said Friday it had "concerns" about the material used on some of its buildings, though it is different from the type used at Grenfell Tower."

Multiply this out to all buildings in all cities - how reprehensible will this act of greediness turn out to be?

Yes, Jerry, you're right. How could

 

Ohooooo, Jehovah...Please stop this madness!

[nanceebgd46]

2 hours ago, nanceebgd46 said:

Ohooooo, Jehovah...Please stop this madness!

I am having a difficult time shaking the fact that approximately (79) humans died in that fire...it's impossible for me to

just ignore what happened to these folks....just move on...NO, their unbelievable suffering sticks with me.

It's almost incomprehensible!