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Australia's top Catholic official charged with sexual assault offenses


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8 minutes ago, Tbs77 said:

The Latest: Church says Pell will return to face sex charges

By The Associated PressSYDNEY — Jun 28, 2017, 10:01 PM ET

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/latest-church-pell-return-face-sex-charges-48340220

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Didn't know that no one that high ranking had ever been charged before. Interesting.

From your link:

" Cardinal George Pell, Pope Francis' chief financial adviser and Australia's most senior Catholic, is the highest-ranking Vatican official to ever be charged in the church's long-running sexual abuse scandal. "

 

Anyone think that forbidding to marry has anything to do with the amount of Catholic Priest and such perving on kids?

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Didn't know that no one that high ranking had ever been charged before. Interesting.
From your link:
" Cardinal George Pell, Pope Francis' chief financial adviser and Australia's most senior Catholic, is the highest-ranking Vatican official to ever be charged in the church's long-running sexual abuse scandal. "
 
Anyone think that forbidding to marry has anything to do with the amount of Catholic Priest and such perving on kids?

It's possible that the pressure not to marry causes these effects, rather than bring particularly attracted to these positions if you have such inclinations.


Johan
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23 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

It's possible that the pressure not to marry causes these effects, rather than bring particularly attracted to these positions if you have such inclinations.


Johan

Not sure why someone would think that? It's the same reasoning as saying that not being married causes homosexuality or transgenderism...That doesn't sound right.

Edited by Bjern
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Not sure why someone would think that? It's the same reasoning as saying that not being married causes homosexuality or transgenerism...That doesn't sound right.

No, the pressure not to marry seems to cause such effects. Not always, though, but sexuality is a very strong force, and when marrying a woman or having relations to an adult man if you are gay is repressed and unwanted, even forbidden, it seems it could have these effects. I am certain that if these people were allowed to have normal relations, these effects would diminish.


Johan
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Just now, Thesauron said:


No, the pressure not to marry seems to cause such effects. Not always, though, but sexuality is a very strong force, and when marrying a woman or having relations to an adult man if you are gay is repressed and unwanted, even forbidden, it seems it could have these effects. I am certain that if these people were allowed to have normal relations, these effects would diminish.


Johan

Why wouldn't they be committing immorality with adults instead then, unless they actually prefer children? Think about it...Natural heterosexuals don't commit homosexuality if they cannot get married, as they are not attracted to the same sex, but it is possible they might try to commit immorality with the opposite sex. Why would people do this to children unless they are attracted to them? Doesn't make any sense.

Also, plenty of pedophiles are married. In fact, statistically the vast majority of cases are relatives of the victims, which includes parents and grandparents (you see, relatives are generally the only people who children are ever completely left alone with), so if these pedophile clergy did get married and had their own children, there's really no guarantee that they wouldn't harm their own children given the opportunity ~ and being their parents, they would be left alone with them quite frequently. I don't think marriage is some kind of cure that can instantly stop someone from being a pedophile, just like marriage doesn't stop someone from being a homosexual. Normal parents would never hurt their children in such a way, but pedophile parents might do so.
The thing is, children are often left alone with Catholic clergy (priests and nuns, etc.), and some of these people are also pedophiles.

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45 minutes ago, Bjern said:

Huh? Do you think they do this because they are not married?

41 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

It's possible that the pressure not to marry causes these effects, rather than bring particularly attracted to these positions if you have such inclinations.


Johan

Not sure why someone would think that? It's the same reasoning as saying that not being married causes homosexuality or transgenderism...That doesn't sound right.

 
Edited 14 minutes ago by Bjern

 

5 minutes ago, Bjern said:

Why wouldn't they be committing immorality with adults instead then, unless they actually prefer children? Think about it...Natural heterosexuals don't commit homosexuality if they cannot get married, as they are not attracted to the same sex, but it is possible they might try to commit immorality with the opposite sex. Why would people do this to children unless they are attracted to them? Doesn't make any sense.

Also, plenty of pedophiles are married. In fact, statistically the vast majority of cases are relatives of the victims, which includes parents and grandparents (you see, relatives are generally the only people who children are ever completely left alone with), so if these pedophile clergy did get married and had their own children, there's really no guarantee that they wouldn't harm their own children given the opportunity ~ and being their parents, they would be left alone with them quite frequently. I don't think marriage is some kind of cure that can instantly stop someone from being a pedophile, just like marriage doesn't stop someone from being a homosexual. Normal parents would never hurt their children in such a way, but pedophile parents might do so.
The thing is, children are often left alone with Catholic clergy (priests and nuns, etc.), and some of these people are also pedophiles.

You have me a little confused as to what you are saying Bjern? What do you think is the cause of soooooo many Priest and such perving on little boys compared to other religions? Personally, I think it has to do partly with what you said about the clergy often being alone with children (Altar boys?) combined with not being allowed to marry plus being inflamed with passion, but what do I know so not sure? Have you not noticed a pattern more prominent with Catholic clergy than with other clergy? It seems that way to me unless it's all 'fake news'. If so, what is it about the Catholic Church, it's teachings or whatever that makes them more prone to pedophilia than other religions?

 

 

(1 Timothy 4:1-3) However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.
(1 Corinthians 7:9) But if they do not have self-control, let them marry, for it is better to marry than to be inflamed with passion.
 

 

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53 minutes ago, Thesauron said:


It's possible that the pressure not to marry causes these effects, rather than bring particularly attracted to these positions if you have such inclinations.


Johan

Thank you Johan. I agree that it's possible, even probable, that pressure not to marry at least contributes to these effects. I also think that perhaps there are some that are being particularly attracted to these positions because of such inclinations and easy access to children.

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29 minutes ago, M&M said:

You have me a little confused as to what you are saying Bjern? What do you think is the cause of soooooo many Priest and such perving on little boys compared to other religions? Personally, I think it has to do partly with what you said about the clergy often being alone with children (Altar boys?) combined with not being allowed to marry plus being inflamed with passion, but what do I know so not sure? Have you not noticed a pattern more prominent with Catholic clergy than with other clergy? It seems that way to me unless it's all 'fake news'. If so, what is it about the Catholic Church, it's teachings or whatever that makes them more prone to pedophilia than other religions?

 

 

(1 Timothy 4:1-3) However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.
(1 Corinthians 7:9) But if they do not have self-control, let them marry, for it is better to marry than to be inflamed with passion.
 

 

This is not limited to Catholicism. Buddhism for example also has this problem, where they have children living with the monks in isolation (it's a big problem in Buddhist countries). Why there are so many cases of this? Because so many pedophiles are left alone so often with so many children. Of course, the fact that they are left alone with children cannot by itself be the problem either, as any normal person wouldn't hurt a child just because nobody is watching. Isolation merely provides pedophiles with the opportunity to do this, and in the cases of priests, nuns and monks, they do get a lot of opportunities alone with children. Not being married likely doesn't help, but how can that be in any way the cause of it? Marriage certainly doesn't prevent such atrocities from happening.

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I think it's sick and disgusting. Period. There are no excuses. Pediophiles commit the lowest form of crime. What is even sicker  is the ones that aren't caught. We just hear about the ones caught. They say death is the only cure for this. To even think about it hurts. Jehovah sees it all. How it must hurt him. What is coming down the road is so fully deserved. How can anyone trust a so-called religion that has such in it. A Catholic gal at work said she was having dinner with a leader from her church, and she said that one thing for sure, the church did not have to worry about a prison ministry, that it was pretty well covered. Yet, off to church she goes. If you can imagine. 

Pediophelia  is beyond comprehension. 

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Can't say I'm surprised. Cardinal Pell was "mentioned in dispatches" in many cases brought up at the RC, as covering over other priests who were pedophiles. It is certainly coming home to roost for him. He tried to hide away in the Vatican in a very high position. Don't know how they "make" him come back and face the music. 

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"I'm innocent of these charges".  Transcript of his short media conference:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-29/george-pell-media-conference/8663432

 

Cardinal Pell has taken leave from his position in the vatican to prepare for his legal fight when he returns to Australia.  Good thing he is returning on his own accord.

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54 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

"I'm innocent of these charges".  Transcript of his short media conference:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-29/george-pell-media-conference/8663432

 

Cardinal Pell has taken leave from his position in the vatican to prepare for his legal fight when he returns to Australia.  Good thing he is returning on his own accord.

Maybe he got "ordered" to leave from Vatican and deal with the problem ??? (Who knows what is spoken behind the closed doors) :zipmouth::confused:

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This is a continuation from last year when he said he was too ill to travel from the Vatican for the hearing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-05/cardinal-george-pell-too-ill-to-child-sex-abuse-inquiry-lawyers/7140584

 

It wasn't so much about him but about the fact he did nothing about it when it was brought to his attention.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-03/george-pell-child-abuse-commission-paedophiles-coincidence/7216072

 

This was actually televised over 2 or 3 days, I guess because he is such a public and prominent figure here in Oz as well as being the Pope's advisor in whatever capacity .. financial? in the Vatican.

 

 

 

 

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Why wouldn't they be committing immorality with adults instead then, unless they actually prefer children? Think about it...Natural heterosexuals don't commit homosexuality if they cannot get married, as they are not attracted to the same sex, but it is possible they might try to commit immorality with the opposite sex. Why would people do this to children unless they are attracted to them? Doesn't make any sense.
Also, plenty of pedophiles are married. In fact, statistically the vast majority of cases are relatives of the victims, which includes parents and grandparents (you see, relatives are generally the only people who children are ever completely left alone with), so if these pedophile clergy did get married and had their own children, there's really no guarantee that they wouldn't harm their own children given the opportunity ~ and being their parents, they would be left alone with them quite frequently. I don't think marriage is some kind of cure that can instantly stop someone from being a pedophile, just like marriage doesn't stop someone from being a homosexual. Normal parents would never hurt their children in such a way, but pedophile parents might do so.
The thing is, children are often left alone with Catholic clergy (priests and nuns, etc.), and some of these people are also pedophiles.

You're mixing things up a bit, so let me address just one thing - the amount of sexual offenders in the Catholic Church. When you are to become, say, a bishop, that trajectory starts very early on, and marriage is forbidden, and normal sexual relations laden with heavy issues of shame and sin. For a very small minority, it seems like a logical solution to use children, who are less, how to put it, sinful, or whatever, and also, sadly, easier targets. Let me remind you that the people who resort to this are in a very small minority. So, what I think is that if you let people who are about to become priests and bishops and whatnot, engage in normal relationships, you probably wouldn't see this issue to such an extent, at least not anymore than in the population at large. Just my guess, mind you.


Johan
I think it's sick and disgusting. Period. There are no excuses. Pediophiles commit the lowest form of crime. What is even sicker  is the ones that aren't caught. We just hear about the ones caught. They say death is the only cure for this. To even think about it hurts. Jehovah sees it all. How it must hurt him. What is coming down the road is so fully deserved. How can anyone trust a so-called religion that has such in it. A Catholic gal at work said she was having dinner with a leader from her church, and she said that one thing for sure, the church did not have to worry about a prison ministry, that it was pretty well covered. Yet, off to church she goes. If you can imagine. 
Pediophelia  is beyond comprehension. 

God's kingdom is the solution, as with any sinful behaviour. And a little more scientific and medical studies wouldn't hurt.


Johan
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45 minutes ago, Thesauron said:


You're mixing things up a bit, so let me address just one thing - the amount of sexual offenders in the Catholic Church. When you are to become, say, a bishop, that trajectory starts very early on, and marriage is forbidden, and normal sexual relations laden with heavy issues of shame and sin. For a very small minority, it seems like a logical solution to use children, who are less, how to put it, sinful, or whatever, and also, sadly, easier targets. Let me remind you that the people who resort to this are in a very small minority. So, what I think is that if you let people who are about to become priests and bishops and whatnot, engage in normal relationships, you probably wouldn't see this issue to such an extent, at least not anymore than in the population at large. Just my guess, mind you.


Johan
God's kingdom is the solution, as with any sinful behaviour. And a little more scientific and medical studies wouldn't hurt.


Johan

That's kinda what I was trying to say but perhaps in Texican?

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