Scientists say people become 'adults' only in their 30s

[Raven]

8 hours ago, Bek said:

Yes, I do. I live in Central Asia, which is the second most Islamic region after the Middle East. 

Indonesia has the largest population of Muslims.

[Hope]

3 hours ago, Shawnster said:

We had a part (or was it an article?) years and years ago about this. The basic point was nobody is born into the Truth.  Everyone must make the Truth their own. 

 

Some youths are born into a Christian home, like @Dismal_Blissdescribed for his children. But they technically are not born (or raised) in the Truth.

 

This is really a minor technicality and is on the same level of distinction as being a member of the Other Sheep vs. Great Crowd. The difference being the Great Crowd will only be identifiable at/after Armageddon. 

 

It's minor semantics. 

 

It's also of note that unlike most other religions, we don't count anyone as a Witness until they are baptized and active in the ministry.  There are thousands of inactive "Witnesses" who are not counted in our yearly report.  I think that's a rather huge distinction - you don't get considered a Witness unless you are actually walking and talking as such.  It doesn't matter what sort of family one was born into.

[Raven]

13 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

I studied with a Muslim man from Iran years ago when Iran took a bunch of  American hostages,...when Jimmy Carter was president of the USA. 

His name was Ali and he was a refugee. He couldn’t Accept the virgin birth for some reason. Any other miracle was plausible....but not the virgin birth...go figure. 

How ironic, since the virgin birth is something that the Quran teaches (Sura Maryam 19:17–21).

[Pjdriver]

14 minutes ago, Hope said:

 

It's also of note that unlike most other religions, we don't count anyone as a Witness until they are baptized and active in the ministry.  There are thousands of inactive "Witnesses" who are not counted in our yearly report.  I think that's a rather huge distinction - you don't get considered a Witness unless you are actually walking and talking as such.  It doesn't matter what sort of family one was born into.

Good point. 

[Pjdriver]

34 minutes ago, Bjern said:

How ironic, since the virgin birth is something that the Quran teaches (Sura Maryam 19:17–21).

That’s right...now I remember....you forced my Brain to work.  I would refer to Jesus as Gods son through the virgin Mary and  he always took issue with that.

I later realized he was equating reference to God’s son as, “God the Son,” part of the trinity.

Although I did tell him that we don’t believe in the trinity. I think my inexperience at the time  and his English wasn’t working out too well.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Pjdriver

[Raven]

1 hour ago, Pjdriver said:

That’s right...now I remember....you forced my Brain to work.  I would refer to Jesus as Gods son through the virgin Mary and  he always took issue with that.

I later realized he was equating reference to God’s son as, “God the Son,” part of the trinity.

Although I did tell him that we don’t believe in the trinity. I think my inexperience at the time  and his English wasn’t working out too well.

Yes, Muslims tend to feel uncomfortable with the idea of calling anyone "God's Son" or "Son of God", as I think the Quran also states that no one can be called by those titles. It can be difficult reasoning on this.

 

Oh dear, I think we've gotten off topic. 😕

[Brother_Bliss]

21 minutes ago, Bjern said:

Oh dear, I think we've gotten off topic. 😕

 

 

23 minutes ago, Bjern said:

Yes, Muslims tend to feel uncomfortable with the idea of calling anyone "God's Son" or "Son of God", as I think the Quran also states that no one can be called by those titles. It can be difficult reasoning on this.

I've heard that they consider Jesus to be just another prophet who went a little bonkers and started calling himself God's son. 

[Raven]

1 minute ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

I've heard that they consider Jesus to be just another prophet who went a little bonkers and started calling himself God's son. 

Jesus is considered by Muslims to be the second most important prophet, after Mohammad. They believe that over time the Bible was interfered with by the Jews and others, changing it from how it was originally, and no longer "pure" ~ they believe this includes making prophets imperfect/fallible, and calling Jesus "God's Son". This is why they believe that the Quran is the superior book, and that reading the Bible is not considered necessary.

[Bek]

8 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

The ministry must be interesting. Do many Muslims accept the truth there?

I studied with a Muslim man from Iran years ago when Iran took a bunch of  American hostages,...when Jimmy Carter was president of the USA. 

His name was Ali and he was a refugee. He couldn’t Accept the virgin birth for some reason. Any other miracle was plausible....but not the virgin birth...go figure. 

In Central Asia, I would not say many accept the truth. For example, in my home country the figure is a little over 5,000. In neighbouring Kazakhstan, which is 2.5 times bigger population-wise, the figure is about 17,000. Mind you, the figures also include non-Muslims like Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, Koreans etc.

In cities, the ministry is in many ways not very different from other parts of the world. There are some restrictions of course, but preaching work is progressing. In rural areas, it is a different ball game because folks there are more conservative, tribal and religious. 

 

There are also other countries in the region, but preaching work is largely banned there. As a result, the number of JWs is not that big, possibly about 1,000 in each of them. 

  

8 hours ago, Bjern said:

Indonesia has the largest population of Muslims.

That is true. Pakistan and India also have huge Muslim populations. However, I did not mean the size of the population when I said that Central Asia is the second most Islamic region. 

 

Central Asia was historically part of the Middle East. It was actually called the Middle Asia or Middle East while the current Middle East used to be called Near East. But all of that changed when Imperial Russia came and colonised Middle Asia by separating it from the rest of the Muslim world. Then the outside world started calling the Near East the Middle East. Interestingly, in Russian, the old terminology is still in use. So Central Asia is called Middle Asia and the Middle East is called the Near East in Russian. 

 

So the current Middle East and Central Asia were once part of the same civillisational continuum and were actually part of many ancient empires. So many of the things you see in the Middle East, you will also see in Central Asia. Despite Russian colonisation and then Sovietisation, Central Asian people have largely been able to preserve their cultures and identities. 

5 hours ago, Bjern said:

Yes, Muslims tend to feel uncomfortable with the idea of calling anyone "God's Son" or "Son of God", as I think the Quran also states that no one can be called by those titles. It can be difficult reasoning on this.

 

Oh dear, I think we've gotten off topic. 😕

That is correct. The Quran says that God is not born and does not beget anyone. It is actually one of the big teachings in Islam. They have been taught all their lives that God does not beget anyone and then someone tells them that Jesus is "the only-begotten Son of God". It is a huge shock for them. That is why I think it is a huge stumbling block for many Muslims

 

Here is the specific verse from the Quran: "He neither begets nor is born" (Sincerity 112:3) 

 

http://koran.link/en__112/

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Bek

[EccentricM]

On 3/20/2019 at 7:55 AM, Mykyl said:

 Off topic. 

Was there any reason Jesus was 30 before he started his ministry? Why not in his twenties? Maybe I’ve missed something over the years, likely, or maybe there was no reason why he was 30 before starting.

Yes it does remind me, I recall reading somewhere that in Hebrew culture, a boy wasn't considered a man until he was 30, so if that is the case the science lines up with the way the Isralites saw things (if that is true of course, I think it was a Jewish source I read where it was mentioned the "bloom of youth" was not seen over until 30, and that modern day Jews in some places don't allow anyone under 30 to read the "Song of Solomon" as it would be considered "too racy").

Edited March 23, 2019 by EccentricM

[Witness1970]

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 6:12 AM, Pjdriver said:

I think young teens (with few exceptions) get baptized before they fully comprehend what they’re doing. They certainly don’t think and act as responsible adults in many cases. 

I was baptized when I was 21. I can truthfully say that in their 20's can get baptized without fully comprehending what they are doing. 

[Bek]

3 hours ago, EccentricM said:

Yes it does remind me, I recall reading somewhere that in Hebrew culture, a boy wasn't considered a man until he was 30, so if that is the case the science lines up with the way the Isralites saw things (if that is true of course, I think it was a Jewish source I read where it was mentioned the "bloom of youth" was not seen over until 30, and that modern day Jews in some places don't allow anyone under 30 to read the "Song of Solomon" as it would be considered "too racy").

 I am not sure if it is a recent thing or been practised since ancient times, but there is a Jewish ritual called Bar mitzvah. It is for boys who come of age at the age of 13 and become accountable just as adult men.

 

As for becoming a man at the age of 30 in Jewish culture, I did a little research on it and learnt that there is a belief, which is apparently based on Genesis 41:46 where 30-year-old Joseph becomes the prime minister of Egypt, that a man becomes mature enough for leadership roles only at 30 years of age. 

 

Interestingly, John the Baptist also is also said to have started his ministry around 30. It appears that all Levite priests also started their ministries at 30. 

 

So if we take into account the fact that priests started their sacred service at 30, Jesus was also fulfilling that requirement of the Mosaic law as our high priest, was he not?    

 

I have found this interesting article by a Jew who explains the significance of hitting 30 in Judaism and cites some rabbinical stuff. 

 

https://www.aish.com/ci/s/48917052.html

[dove]

On 3/19/2019 at 2:48 PM, Bek said:

When do we start being held responsible for our sins in God's eyes? Does God treat a sin by a 10-year-old in the same way as that of a 30 year-old?  

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-47622059

 

Wouldn't they be held accountable when they know the difference between right and wrong, whatever the age? Wouldn't a 10 year old know that murder, lying and stealing are wrong?

[Bek]

3 hours ago, Dove said:

Wouldn't they be held accountable when they know the difference between right and wrong, whatever the age? Wouldn't a 10 year old know that murder, lying and stealing are wrong?

Theoretically they should be, but in practice, if you look at human justice systems, a 10-year‐old criminal is not treated in the same way as a 30‐year‐old one. 

 

For example, if a boy steals a very expensive smartphone, he will not be sent to jail. In contrast, a grown man who does the same thing will end up in jail. 

 

If human systems being corrupt show this kind of mercy, God's love‐based perfect system, in my view, will be more merciful towards young people. 

 

This makes me wonder how children who committed crimes were treated under the Mosaic law. 

[dove]

8 hours ago, Bek said:

Theoretically they should be, but in practice, if you look at human justice systems, a 10-year‐old criminal is not treated in the same way as a 30‐year‐old one. 

 

For example, if a boy steals a very expensive smartphone, he will not be sent to jail. In contrast, a grown man who does the same thing will end up in jail. 

 

If human systems being corrupt show this kind of mercy, God's love‐based perfect system, in my view, will be more merciful towards young people. 

 

This makes me wonder how children who committed crimes were treated under the Mosaic law. 

I understand what you are saying. I would not want to put a 10 year old in the same cell with a hardened criminal. Although at that young age they do know right from wrong, their young minds are still not thinking the same as an adult. They may not have the same malice or forethought as an adult who commits those same crimes.

 

[vern]

"all sins will be forgiven...."

 

" men appointed to die once then judgement"

 

"practice mercy"

 

pray for your enemy

 

be perfect like this your heavenly father

 

the merciful receive mercy

 

judgement you give out you receive

[Tortuga]

24 minutes ago, vern said:

"all sins will be forgiven...."

" men appointed to die once then judgement"

"practice mercy"

pray for your enemy

be perfect like this your heavenly father

the merciful receive mercy

judgement you give out you receive

Can you clarify the point you are making?

[Shawnster]

5 hours ago, Dove said:

I understand what you are saying. I would not want to put a 10 year old in the same cell with a hardened criminal. Although at that young age they do know right from wrong, their young minds are still not thinking the same as an adult. They may not have the same malice or forethought as an adult who commits those same crimes.

 

Right. There is more to being an adult, even legally, than simply knowing right from wrong.  Just because someone knows, in a clinical sense, right from wrong does not mean they understand the difference. 

[vern]

Jehovah and Christ judge.

 

Christ showed his quick willingness to forgive.

 

only sins against holy spirit are not forgiven. And there is a strong case for flood and Sodom and Gamorrs

 

at any even Jehovah has given the legal means to forgive anyone he wants to. And wants us to practice mercy.

[Pjdriver]

On 3/20/2019 at 9:20 PM, Pjdriver said:

Only those anointed to rule in the kingdom are in the new covenant and they enter into the new covenant not through baptism but through  anointing by Holy Spirit. 

Just wanted to correct myself. I neglected to mention an important aspect of the New Covenant....it is made operative by the blood of the ransom.

Ok...go about your business. Carry on... 

[dove]

On 3/24/2019 at 3:59 PM, Shawnster said:

Right. There is more to being an adult, even legally, than simply knowing right from wrong.  Just because someone knows, in a clinical sense, right from wrong does not mean they understand the difference. 

Today news told of 2 holistic doctors gunned down by an 11 year old..their own son.

He's been arrested and charged but no motive yet.

Thing is, the victims are just as dead regardless of the age of the shooter or whether the kid understood what he was doing or not..

[Sequoia]

Interesting.  I've been told by mental health professionals that our brains are in the final stage of development in the early 20's until or through age 24.  

Edited March 28, 2019 by JW2017

[Sequoia]

Also remember in the Bible in ancient Israel a man had to be at least 20 years old to be in the army and census inquiries were for those 20 years of age and older.

[EccentricM]

1 hour ago, JW2017 said:

Interesting.  I've been told by mental health professionals that our brains are in the final stage of development in the early 20's until or through age 24.  

Well, mental health professionals operate on the known science If this is true that it is "30" one is fully mature, then mental health professionals will eventually all state such too.