What do you think of brothers wearing cologne? (or perfume)

[Tbs77]

I wore this lotion to work my wife bought me because she likes...let's just say I don't wear that lotion to work anymore... aveeno unscented from now on..

[Hotteok]

8 hours ago, Bek said:

I know that Europeans (Whites in US terminology) tend to sweat more than Asians, and they need to take a shower every day and to use deodorants to reduce the odour. I have read

 

Very true..

Not many Koreans tend to have smells. (They sweat but smell less. Of course, people define 'smell' differently and this can be controversial. So I'll just say that most Koreans think they have less 'bad smell' than other races when/after sweating.) 

So many Koreans are not ready to smell very strong perfumes. 

They'd rather smell light, pleasant cologne. (Like John Varvatos 'Artisan'. Very light but refreshing, doesn't make you feel dizzy at all if sprayed moderately)  

Edited October 9, 2019 by Tryin'SoHardToBeSpiritual

[Hotteok]

For those of you who are worried about the smell, I think maybe essential oil can be an alternative...??

I spilled cypress essential oil the other day, all over my back pack accidentally, and it smells good.. and it lasts. 

[CHecker]

My congregation is so thoughtful. The congregation overseer announced, oh probably 8 months ago, that no scents of any kind, even those of essential oils, should be worn during meetings or meetings for field service. There is one sister that is so sensitive even to the smell of a rose or lavender in the garden or anything. I don't know how people can exist on a day-to-day basis that are allergic to absolutely every scent that comes their way. That has to be so frustrating.

But personally I just don't like the smell of cologne or perfumes unless completely natural extractions.

[Tortuga]

2 hours ago, bagwell1987 said:

But personally I just don't like the smell of cologne or perfumes unless completely natural extractions

...and smell like fresh cut lumber?

[tekmantwo]

2 hours ago, Bro Richard said:

...and smell like fresh cut lumber?

Just dab on some Pine-Sol, good to go!

 

 

( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine-Sol  known for its very strong scent.)

[Hope]

14 hours ago, Bek said:

If you mean East Asians, of course, they do sweat, but not as much as others. As for other Asians (Arabs, Iranians, Turks etc), they should not be very different from other races. 

I'm talking about every human. They all sweat and if they are not scrupulously clean, they all are stinky. Everyone needs deodorant, whether they think so or not.  It's not the sweat that smells, it's bacteria on the skin. Everyone has that... deodorant/ antiperspirant will help.

 

I do have a strong sense of smell. I understand and sympathize with those whom fragrances make ill.  But body odor makes me nauseous to the extreme 🤢🤮🥴  Please, please do something...

[Bek]

14 hours ago, Hope said:

I beg to differ on the notion that Asians don't sweat / need deodorant as much as any other people.  I've found that to be markedly untrue. 🤢

 

That's all I'm saying about that... 

I have just looked around on Google and found a paper on the world's largest medical research database on East Asians sweating less than Europeans. 

 

Quote

In the current work, we hypothesized that axillary odorants produced by East Asians would differ markedly from those obtained from individuals of European or African descent based on the pattern of ethnic diversity that exists in ABCC11. Using gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (GC/MS) we examined differences in axillary odorant VOCs among 30 individuals of African-American, Caucasian, and East Asian descent with respect to their ABCC11 genotype. While no qualitative differences in the type of axillary odorants were observed across ethnic groups, we found that characteristic axillary odorants varied quantitatively with respect to ethnic origin. We propose that ABCC11 is not solely responsible for predicting the relative amounts of volatiles found in axillary secretions and that other biochemical pathways must be involved. Source

You can also Google "deodorant in Asia" to see reports on East Asians not needing or even having deodorants. There is a New York Times report about deodorant sellers failing in China, but it is behind a pay wall and I could not read it. I remember reading many years ago that deodorant sales were low in Asia, but I cannot remember the source. 

12 hours ago, Thesauron said:

I don’t know about East Asians sweating less than Europeans. Sounds strange. And you are talking about deodorants. They might help some people, especially teenagers. Otherwise, as you say, keeping clean is the key. However, here we are not talking about any deodorants, but of cologne, which is used to smell good and quite a few brothers wear it now and then.

Yes, brother, I know that it sounds strange, but that is the reality. These days you can have cologne deodorants or perfumed deodorants. So the line between them is blurred now. 

 

Besides, when the Europeans started making perfumes back in the Renaissance period, the main purpose was to mask the body odour in those days. Here is a quote from Wiki: 

Quote

Between the 16th and 17th centuries, perfumes were used primarily by the wealthy to mask body odors resulting from infrequent bathing. In 1693, Italian barber Giovanni Paolo Feminis created a perfume water called Aqua Admirabilis,^[13] today best known as eau de cologne; his nephew Johann Maria Farina (Giovanni Maria Farina) took over the business in 1732. Source

The practice today is still alive. People wear perfume/deodorants not only to smell good, but also to mask the body odour. 

[Hope]

Just because people are not buying deodorant does NOT mean they don't need it.  People get used to their own aroma.

 

I have been in car groups with Japanese and Korean friends during the ministry regularly.  EVERYONE NEEDS DEODORANT!  🤢

[Guri]

21 hours ago, Tryin'SoHardToBeSpiritual said:

1. I don't really care. I haven't really paid attention to such a thing. 

2. I'd love a good-smelling brother.

3. I'd hate to smell cologne on a brother.

 

 

1. I like when brothers wear nice and little amount of cologne. 
 

2.   

 

3.  I wouldn’t like if a brother is wearing too strong and too much cologne. 

[New World Explorer]

19 minutes ago, Hope said:

I have been in car groups with Japanese and Korean friends during the ministry regularly.  EVERYONE NEEDS DEODORANT! 

What was a prevailing smell? ...sushi or kimchi? LOL

[carlos]

Friends, I can't but shake my head when I read that certain races don't sweat, or don't smell, therefore they don't need to take a shower daily or use deodorants. That's all nonsense! There are a few friends in my congregation who think the same think... and anyone in the hall can tell who they are. They think they don't smell because, of course, you cannot perceive your own body odor, but they actually stink. Imagine someone who comes to the hall for the first time and the brother seated by him stinks of transpiration! Or a brother in service who smells bad! Few things ward people off more than a bad bodily odor.

In our congregation we had to have several local needs talks about hygiene. Until the elders realized the problem was that, when they said we all need to be clean and have a good hygiene, all the brothers and sister considered they did, because that was the way they had been taught or what is normal in their place of origin. So in one of those talks the elder had to explain what a good hygiene means: have a shower every day, use a deodorant, brush your teeth, change clothes every day and washing them (not just "airing" them as some did), jackets and other clothes that cannot be washed should be taken to a dry cleaner every now and then and so on.

 

The same happens with immigrants from some particular cultures. They follow the hygiene customs (or rather their lack thereof) they learned in their original country, but they actually stink and people despise them for that.

 

Some of our publications insist on those same points:

 

*** lvs chap. 8 pp. 108-109 par. 15 Jehovah Wants His People to Be Clean ***
15 Our body and clothing. Keeping ourselves clean needs to be part of our daily routine. For example, we bathe regularly, every day if possible. We wash our hands with soap and water, especially before cooking or eating and definitely after using the toilet or touching something dirty. Washing our hands seems like a simple thing, but it is necessary in order to stop bacteria and disease from spreading. It can even save lives. If we do not have a toilet or a sewage system, we can still find effective ways to dispose of waste. The ancient Israelites did not have a sewage system, so they buried their waste in the ground, far from people’s homes and water sources.—Deuteronomy 23:12, 13.

 

*** w89 6/1 pp. 16-17 par. 8 Be Clean in Mind and Body ***
8 When a person becomes a member of a Bethel family at the Watch Tower Society’s headquarters or any of its branches throughout the world, he is given a brochure prepared by the Governing Body. This publication explains what is expected of him in the way of work habits and personal habits. Under the heading “Room Care and Cleanliness,” it states: “Bethel life calls for maintaining high physical, moral and spiritual standards. Everyone at Bethel should be concerned with keeping himself and his room clean. This contributes to good health. There is no reason for anyone to be dirty. It is a good practice to bathe daily. . . . Washing before mealtime is essential and is expected of all. In consideration of your roommate and housekeeper, the washbasin or tub should be rinsed out after each use.”

 

Please, friends, take a shower or bathe daily and use something to avoid bodily odor. If you don't want to or cannot use a deodorant with chemicals, use baking soda, essential oils or some other natural alternative, but use something. After a whole day of physical work everybody smells, no matter if you are white, Asian, Greenlandish or Martian.

 

 

[New World Explorer]

I have shower twice a day ...yes..twice (morning and evening) use Fahrenheit cologne for evenings or restaurant outgoings, Tommy and Hugo, Aqua.. for more daily activities.

But like Carlos stated already ...NOTHING ..no products replace good higene!

I like feeling clean & fresh.

[Guri]

1 hour ago, New World Explorer said:

What was a prevailing smell? ...sushi or kimchi? LOL

Freshly baked donut smell.  

Edited October 9, 2019 by Guri
Clarification

[Thesauron]

The practice today is still alive. People wear perfume/deodorants not only to smell good, but also to mask the body odour. 

Not where I live. Here people wash, and then they put on some cologne or perfume, if they wish. They do not use it to mask any bad smells.

[Bek]

1 hour ago, Thesauron said:

Not where I live. Here people wash, and then they put on some cologne or perfume, if they wish. They do not use it to mask any bad smells.

I don't think you can speak for everyone, brother, about such personal matters, but I respect your private opinion. 

 

I am surprised that some brothers and sisters dismiss out of hand the evidence from different sources. I feel it is unreasonable to do so, especially for people who are commanded to be impartial, to love truth and to exercise righteousness. If you cannot understand something or disagree with something or it goes against your knowledge or worldview, you do not have to say that it is rubbish. I present some research and other kinds of evidence, but it is countered with personal opinions and held as weightier than what researchers and data shows. I always try to be cautious and say that we do not know everything in this complex world and it is likely that we never will even in the new world. 

 

The fact that the East Asians sweat less can be due to their diet and environment. We all know that they, especially the Koreans and Japanese, tend to be long-livers and often stay younger than their years. It is an established fact that it is all due to their food, which is mainly fish and vegetables. So the sweating might also be down to that. If you move a Japanese to the US and feed him standard US diet, it is most likely he will be like other races, and have the same kind of health issues.

 

I remember reading a research paper about Asian women who usually have low rates of breast cancer developing the disease when they were moved to the US.   

 

There is a new field in science called epigenetics, which says that certain genes of ours can get activated or deactivated by the factors in our environments. Food, air, altitude, sunlight etc can all influence our body. You can read a short article about environment affecting our gene activation system: 

 

https://www.encyclopedie-environnement.org/en/health/epigenetics-how-the-environment-influences-our-genes/

 

Interestingly, I know that people living at high altitudes have bigger lungs and hearts because their environment forces their body to work harder to extract oxygen from the thin air, and as a result of the extra work, their organs get bigger in capacity.  

 

PS. just found a research paper on the incidence of breast cancer among Asian women: 

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/14969550_Migration_Patterns_and_Breast_Cancer_Risk_in_Asian-American_Women

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Bek

[kejedo]

21 hours ago, Sylv said:

Same here! Brothers and sisters' insistence to wear fragrance forced me to have to listen to the meetings by phone for over a year, after several years of sitting in the library and leaving as soon as the meeting was over. I now attend a different congregation (in the same hall), where the friends refrain from wearing fragrance to the hall. This service year I will also start getting the links for the SAD and convention, as sitting on a bench in the lobby does not help with concentration (I haven't sat in the auditorium for years).

 

pm me where this congregation is that refrains from fragrance. I really need to fight these life threatening synthetics. I carry two epipens, but last night , at KH,spent the whole meeting with fighting upper allergy reactions and my face buried in tissues.. Not extreme enough to put me in the hospital (anaphylaxes,) but I will buy some liquid benadryl today.  Coughing, sneezing, and itchy all night.I have an ice roller in the freezer. Tried to reduce eye swelling a bit.. Very little sleep, but this is our first morning out with the CO. Didn't want to miss it.

 

 

[BLEmom]

Yesterday I was with a sister exposed to unboxing a package. She has MS and MCS.  She went into spasms and couldn’t hold her body still. She has had that reaction from perfumes and colognes too. 

I have heard friends express things like “I will never give up my perfume” “they should just stay home”. And others who refuse to believe people aren’t faking their health reactions.  I find much of that attitude hateful. That’s my personal opinion. When you watch people go through physical trauma because friends in the hall decide they have to exercise their personal rights, it is greatly disturbing.  I work with this sister. Usually work is her safe environment.  You know what’s sad?  The Kingdom Hall isn’t. Her husband has tried so many times to get their elders to help make a clean room for her and a few others. All to no avail. He’s offered to buy equipment that helps filter the air for a room. 

So basically, I’m going to comment on another thread and tie it into this one. The end has to be near. Because even the friends can have a severe lack of love, the love of the greater number has cooled off indeed. 

This sister is over 70 and her main reason for continuing to work is because it’s the only way she has any association with the friends. There are five of us who work together. We don’t have a problem not wearing products that bother others. Sadly, it is hard to find such an accommodating attitude. 

Sorry to be a downer about this. 

 

Yes, wear unscented deodorant, no colognes, use I scented products as much as possible with everything from hair products to fabric softeners.

 

There are friends who need hugs that haven’t had any in years because of MCS. 

[carlos]

1 hour ago, Bek said:

The fact that the East Asians sweat less can be due to their diet and environment.

Nurzat, it's perfectly possible that East Asians are less prone to sweat. And I'm sure that their diet has a lot to do with that, as with all the other things you mention. But I have travelled in Korea and some people smelled good and many others stank of sweat.

 

My point is that everybody needs to wash themselves daily. And using some product to prevent bad smell helps too. The Slave has given that advice, and it was not for Westerners, it's for everybody worldwide. As in the publication I quoted, all Bethels around the world expect Bethelites to start the day with a shower. That applies to the Asian Bethels too.

 

Where I live, in summer it's absolutely necessary to have two or three showers a day, or even more if you do physical work. Otherwise you stink. I understand that in Iceland or in Kamchatka or in Antarctica the weather is different. But still,  you need to wash at least once a day.

Edited October 9, 2019 by carlos

[Thesauron]

I don't think you can speak for everyone, brother, about such personal matters, but I respect your private opinion. 
 
I am surprised that some brothers and sisters dismiss out of hand the evidence from different sources. I feel it is unreasonable to do so, especially for people who are commanded to be impartial, to love truth and to exercise righteousness. If you cannot understand something or disagree with something or it goes against your knowledge or worldview, you do not have to say that it is rubbish. I present some research and other kinds of evidence, but it is countered with personal opinions and held as weightier than what researchers and data shows. I always try to be cautious and say that we do not know everything in this complex world and it is likely that we never will even in the new world. 
 

I always speak for myself, nobody else.

It is possible that many things in life are due to a combination of diet and genetics, as well as environment.

I do not say something is rubbish just because it goes against my world view, on the contrary. But it is probably not true until proven otherwise. And, it is true that we do not know everything, and we need to admit that. But we also need to use common sense. Pointing to one study just means that this one study came to this conclusion, not that it is in any way any common understanding within the scientific community. You can find a study that supports just about any view you hold.

[Thesauron]

4 hours ago, carlos said:

Nurzat, it's perfectly possible that East Asians are less prone to sweat. And I'm sure that their diet has a lot to do with that, as with all the other things you mention. But I have travelled in Korea and some people smelled good and many others stank of sweat.

Anyone who has spent an afternoon riding the subway in Tokyo during rush hour will agree that, yes, people can stink quite badly. Less than Europeans? Maybe, perhaps a little, I don’t know. If so, we are talking about a very minuscular degree of bad smell.

[Bek]

7 hours ago, carlos said:

My point is that everybody needs to wash themselves daily. And using some product to prevent bad smell helps too. The Slave has given that advice, and it was not for Westerners, it's for everybody worldwide. As in the publication I quoted, all Bethels around the world expect Bethelites to start the day with a shower. That applies to the Asian Bethels too.

My point was not really about showering, but I agree with you. I actually mentioned it in my earlier posts in this thread. By the way, local Bethelites where I live shower every day too, and change clothes almost every day. 

4 hours ago, Thesauron said:

It is possible that many things in life are due to a combination of diet and genetics, as well as environment.
 

Epigenetics is an established field. You might want to give it some consideration, because it might help you to understand how the environment affects our health. I think if I was not seriously ill, I would definitely familiarise myself with it. I wish I had known about it a long time ago... 

 

Quote

I do not say something is rubbish just because it goes against my world view, on the contrary. But it is probably not true until proven otherwise. And, it is true that we do not know everything, and we need to admit that. But we also need to use common sense. Pointing to one study just means that this one study came to this conclusion, not that it is in any way any common understanding within the scientific community. You can find a study that supports just about any view you hold.

The rubbish part was not really addressed to you in particular. It is true that there are many studies, but it does not mean we should dismiss them as if they were of little value. By the way, for some reason you or others have not cited a single research paper or even a scientific report to back up yours opinions. So maybe there aren't as many studies to "support just about any view" after all.  

3 hours ago, Thesauron said:

Anyone who has spent an afternoon riding the subway in Tokyo during rush hour will agree that, yes, people can stink quite badly. Less than Europeans? Maybe, perhaps a little, I don’t know. If so, we are talking about a very minuscular degree of bad smell.

It is your personal opinion, but I still respect it even if it may not be true. Here is some more info on the topic. Mind you, this East Asian sweating appears to be a well-known fact in the scientific community. 

 

Quote

The non-functional ABCC11 allele is predominant among East Asians (80–95%), but very low in other ancestral groups (0–3%).^[5] Most of the world's population have the gene that codes for the wet-type earwax and normal body odor; however, East Asians are genetically predisposed for the allele associated with the dry-type earwax and a reduction in body odor.^[5][18][20] East Asians (Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese) have fewer apocrine sweat glands compared to people of other descent, making East Asians less prone to body odor.^[22][23] The reduction in body odor and sweating may be due to adaptation to colder climates by their ancient Northeast Asian ancestors. Source

 

Quote

 People without Gene for Underarm Odor Still Wear Deodorant

 

Several years ago ago, scientists discovered that a gene called ABCC11 determined whether people produced wet or dry earwax. Interestingly, people who produce the "dry" version of earwax also lack a chemical in their armpits that bacteria feed on to cause underarm odor.

 

"This key gene is basically the single determinant of whether you do produce underarm odor or not," Day said.

While only 2 percent of Europeans lack the genes for smelly armpits, most East Asians and almost all Koreans lack this gene, Day told LiveScience. Source

Quote

 People without Gene for Underarm Odor Still Wear Deodorant

 

Several years ago ago, scientists discovered that a gene called ABCC11 determined whether people produced wet or dry earwax. Interestingly, people who produce the "dry" version of earwax also lack a chemical in their armpits that bacteria feed on to cause underarm odor.

 

"This key gene is basically the single determinant of whether you do produce underarm odor or not," Day said.

While only 2 percent of Europeans lack the genes for smelly armpits, most East Asians and almost all Koreans lack this gene, Day told LiveScience. Source

So the conclusion is that most East Asians have almost no smelly armpits, but there are still some that do. Interestingly, many East Asians buy deodorants although there is no need for them. 

 

Just in case, please don't forget to check the sources of citations at the bottom of the Wikipedia articles. 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Bek

[Thesauron]

1 hour ago, Bek said:

Epigenetics is an established field. You might want to give it some consideration, because it might help you to understand how the environment affects our health. I think if I was not seriously ill, I would definitely familiarise myself with it. I wish I had known about it a long time ago... 

 

I do know about epigenetics. It’s an interesting field.

 

1 hour ago, Bek said:

The rubbish part was not really addressed to you in particular. It is true that there are many studies, but it does not mean we should dismiss them as if they were of little value. By the way, for some reason you or others have not cited a single research paper or even a scientific report to back up yours opinions. So maybe there aren't as many studies to "support just about any view" after all.  

There are studies to support any view you wish. This isn’t a scientific discussion, though, is it?

 

1 hour ago, Bek said:

It is your personal opinion

it is my experience. If there is a difference in the amount of smell, it is quite small in my experience. Because they do smell.

[SUNRAY]

Does anyone remember the August 8, 2000 Awake wherein the subject of CFS is discussed in the first articles? It has helped me in many ways over the years..wonderful information..💖

Edited October 9, 2019 by SUNRAY
content

[EccentricM]

Baking Soda (Bicarbonate Soda), not to be confused with baking powder, is an exellent deodorant and doesn't make people ill or chesty. If you apply the right ammount after a shower, it can last a decent ammount of time.

 

I tested it out by putting some on and then working out a long time in clothes, and I didn't smell a thing under my arms whereas I usually would if going without anything. Of course some people sweat more excessively than others, but it's a good option to try if people want something natural that works without harming others.