JW Broadcasting - May 2021

[daydream]

I like the pic on the left because the background doesn't overwhelm  with all the night time glitz of a modern city.

[jwhess]

Maybe we should start a topic on the end of the world (Kings, BTG, GT, Gog and Armageddon) instead of using a beautiful video to discuss these deep things.

 

However, just to separate all of the final actions and who is part of each section...I have started this list.

 

First the Kings of the North and South engage in some warfare

 

Russia & allies against Anglo-America & allies

Some “Peace & Security” declared

 

Then the United Nations takes action in Destroying Babylon the Great (false religion)

This is an observable beginning of the Great Tribulation.  The anointed are with us.

 

*** w19 September pp. 10-11 par. 11 Armageddon Is Good News! ***

¹¹ Jehovah will destroy “the great prostitute” by means of “the ten horns” of “a scarlet-colored wild beast.” That figurative wild beast represents the United Nations. The ten horns represent the current political powers supporting that organization. At God’s appointed time, those political powers will turn on symbolic Babylon. They “will make her devastated and naked” by plundering her wealth and exposing her wickedness. (Rev. 17:3, 16) That swift destruction—as if in one day—will come as a shock to those who supported her. After all, she has long boasted: “I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning.”—Rev. 18:7, 8.

 

*** w19 October p. 15 pars. 3-4 Stay Faithful Through the “Great Tribulation” ***

The ten horns represent all the political powers that support “the wild beast”—the United Nations. (Rev. 17:3, 11-13; 18:8) When those political powers turn on false religion, that will mark the beginning of the great tribulation. It will be a truly catastrophic world event.

⁴ We do not know what reasons the nations might give to justify their attack on Babylon the Great. They might say that the world’s religions are an obstacle to peace and that they constantly meddle in politics. Or they might say that those religious organizations have accumulated too much wealth and property.

 

After BTG is gone, the coalition of nations (Gog) gathers as a group to attack Jehovah’s people.

 During this period the anointed are taken to heaven.

 

*** w20 May p. 15 par. 14 Who Is “the King of the North” Today? ***

¹⁴ Sometime after the start of the great tribulation, “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” will form a coalition of nations. (Rev. 16:13, 14; 19:19) That coalition becomes what the Scriptures call “Gog of the land of Magog.” (Ezek. 38:2) That coalition of nations will make one final all-out assault on God’s people.

 

*** w19 September pp. 11-12 pars. 13-15 Armageddon Is Good News! ***

The attack of Gog. (Read Ezekiel 38:2, 8, 9.) After the destruction of all false religious organizations, God’s people will stand out like a lone tree that survived a fierce storm. Satan, of course, will be enraged. He will vent that rage by using demonic propaganda—“unclean inspired expressions”—to cause a coalition of nations to turn on Jehovah’s servants. (Rev. 16:13, 14) That coalition is called “Gog of the land of Magog.” When the nations launch their attack, they will have arrived at the symbolic place called Armageddon.—Rev. 16:16.

 

[Eejay]

33 minutes ago, jwhess said:

a topic on the end of the world

I think we are pretty clear in our literature on the known sequence of events as nicely laid out in post #202. The faithful slave does the deep diving for us, and lays out the pearls of interpretation and wisdom so that we can all have a share.

 

My favourite comment on all these matters still is that made by Brother Anthony Morris in the talk"This Is It" given at the 2018 AM.

He showed how the cry of "Peace and Security" we all anticipate may not be discerned until during, or even after, it occurs, but that we can be confident that Jehovah will use his channel of communication to keep us informed of what is necessary.

But then he said "So when they do destroy Babylon the Great and all of this is taking place on the earth, you brothers are not going to need a breaking news update."

[New World Explorer]

9 hours ago, jwhess said:

Br. Greg, Our faithful brothers in the past have seen the attacks of KotN on god's people and invasions of the "Land of Decoration" and we were just as assured that God's prophecy was coming to fruition. We have had 3 King of the North political rulers spaced 30-40 years apart in the last century or so.  And we have had several invasions of the "Land of Decoration".  so we must not use that as our touchstone about the end.  It "may" be indicative but it is not affirmative.

 

*** w20 May pp. 13-14 pars. 7-8 Who Is “the King of the North” Today? ***
7 ...Rather, “the land of the Decoration” today is the realm of activity of Jehovah’s people that includes such things as their worship of Jehovah through meetings and the field ministry.

8 During the last days, the king of the north has repeatedly entered into “the land of the Decoration.” For example, when Nazi Germany filled the role of the king of the north, particularly during the second world war, that king entered into “the land of the Decoration” by persecuting and killing God’s people. After World War II when the Soviet Union took on the role of the king of the north, that king entered into “the land of the Decoration” by persecuting God’s people, exiling them.
 

So we look for prophecy that has no duplication, like the destruction of Babylon the Great. THEN we will know...♥️

 

Yes I know this brother John, But I was stating that I do not believe that there is time and circumstances for another KOTN to arise , therefore latest entering of land of decoration" would be significant if this is last KOTN that ever walked this earth. 

[Thomas Walker]

One question about this month's broadcast. 

 

The KotN and KotS have changed identities multiple times. Is there a scripture to support this, or is this our interpretation, based on watching world events?

 

Also, side note: We were all expecting Russia to be named, months before the Society declared. Does anyone have something in our publications where they were making supposition about Daniel's prophecy, for earlier versions of the KotN. Some time when they said 'we don't know what this means yet, but can expect that this will happen...'

[.Ivan.]

1 hour ago, jwhess said:

⁴ We do not know what reasons the nations might give to justify their attack on Babylon the Great. They might say that the world’s religions are an obstacle to peace and that they constantly meddle in politics. Or they might say that those religious organizations have accumulated too much wealth and property.

 

they do not need a visible and understandable reason for us, the prophecy says that they will do what God puts in their hearts.

 

And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire.  For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast...

[jwhess]

3 minutes ago, .Ivan. said:

they do not need a visible and understandable reason for us, the prophecy says that they will do what God puts in their hearts.

 

And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire.  For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast...

Keep in mind this was just a quote from the Watchtower.  "⁴ We do not know what reasons the nations might give to justify their attack on Babylon the Great"  I know Jehovah motivates them but I think that the article was trying to point out that we do not know the "trigger" event.  Those nations must find "some" reason to pick that date and time to coordinate such a world-wide attack.  It was not my personal question...it was just a quote.

[jwhess]

26 minutes ago, New World Explorer said:

Yes I know this brother John, But I was stating that I do not believe that there is time and circumstances for another KOTN to arise , therefore latest entering of land of decoration" would be significant if this is last KOTN that ever walked this earth. 

Br. Greg, I am sure that is what you are saying.  I just wanted to point out that that is what we all said the last few times we saw the "land or decoration" being invaded.  I lived through #2 and #3.

 

As a wild imagining...what is China turned out to be the KotN in a year from now.  And they expanded their persecution of God's people and invaded the land of decoration then. 

 

Nothing in the prophecy would change.  No change in God's chosen date for Armageddon would occur.  There is no scripture that the 3rd KotN in the last days has to be the final one.  It might be four of them.  That was why I said we rely on the destruction of BTG because there is only one of those events.  Not saying you are incorrect, just saying it is not definitive.  Possible, maybe probable but not guaranteed.

 

When the churches have been destroyed and their organizations are in ruins...now THAT is definitive...♥️

[Dages]

8 hours ago, Hope said:

Paris is not that congested at ALL!  It is a very beautiful, graceful city.. ❤️

 

Careful, "Paris syndrome" is a thing

[jwhess]

18 minutes ago, Thomas Walker said:

One question about this month's broadcast. 

 

The KotN and KotS have changed identities multiple times. Is there a scripture to support this, or is this our interpretation, based on watching world events?

 

Also, side note: We were all expecting Russia to be named, months before the Society declared. Does anyone have something in our publications where they were making supposition about Daniel's prophecy, for earlier versions of the KotN. Some time when they said 'we don't know what this means yet, but can expect that this will happen...'

Remember, we were discussing just the last 100 years or so.  But in the timeline going back to Daniel and Ezekiel...the mighty kings in opposition to each other kept changing back then.  And finally they stopped and now they have started up again because Jehovah said they would in the last days.

 

As to USSR and Russia...the world scene changed dramatically.  We were used to thinking of Stalinist USSR as the King of the North. 1950s, 1960s (Khrushchev-Bay of Pigs-Sputnik), 1970s, 1980s.  Then in the 1990s we had Glasnost and Yeltsin and democratic ideas.  How can we call this new Russia the King of the North when it lets us be registered, own branch offices and printing facilities.  We can go out in the ministry and hold conventions.  Our work is blossoming from a few 10s of thousands to 175,000 publishers.  No one is persecuting us, no one is restricting us, no one is invading our land of decoration.  So we could not place a finger on the exact direction that this prophecy was going.  Now we see.  Hindsight is easier...🙂

[.Ivan.]

2 hours ago, jwhess said:

Možda bismo trebali pokrenuti temu o kraju svijeta (Kings, BTG, GT , Gog i Armageddon)

 

 

 

good idea.

[jwhess]

1 hour ago, Eejay said:

I think we are pretty clear in our literature on the known sequence of events as nicely laid out in post #202. The faithful slave does the deep diving for us, and lays out the pearls of interpretation and wisdom so that we can all have a share.

 

My favourite comment on all these matters still is that made by Brother Anthony Morris in the talk"This Is It" given at the 2018 AM.

He showed how the cry of "Peace and Security" we all anticipate may not be discerned until during, or even after, it occurs, but that we can be confident that Jehovah will use his channel of communication to keep us informed of what is necessary.

But then he said "So when they do destroy Babylon the Great and all of this is taking place on the earth, you brothers are not going to need a breaking news update."

I find that not all in my group understand the relationship and difference in Gog and the UN (even the Kings).  Who attacks whom and when?  Are they the same group, affiliated with each other or not related at all?  The Gog coalition does not even form until after the UN has destroyed the False Religion.

[New World Explorer]

28 minutes ago, jwhess said:

Keep in mind this was just a quote from the Watchtower.  "⁴ We do not know what reasons the nations might give to justify their attack on Babylon the Great"  I know Jehovah motivates them but I think that the article was trying to point out that we do not know the "trigger" event.  Those nations must find "some" reason to pick that date and time to coordinate such a world-wide attack.  It was not my personal question...it was just a quote.

Also the “trigger” could potentially only be discussed behind the scenes  (ten horns) catching whole mankind unaware .... Jehovah’s day is coming as a thief. 
 

[Paulo]

35 minutes ago, New World Explorer said:

Yes I know this brother John, But I was stating that I do not believe that there is time and circumstances for another KOTN to arise , therefore latest entering of land of decoration" would be significant if this is last KOTN that ever walked this earth. 

My personal opinion, like I said personal, is that I will not be surprised if the king of KOtN of today (Russia and its allies) will slighly change to a double head of Russia and China and their both allies, what is now being built and named as the 'greater Eurasia'.

China is already a strong partner of Russia, not an ally in the way understood as a militar ally because both partners do not need and do not desire a full militar pact. That in fact is not necessary and is againts their interests.

 

 

9 hours ago, Sofia said:

EGYPT DOES NOT ESCAPE

 

¹⁸ Jehovah’s angel continued: “He [the king of the north] will keep thrusting out his hand against the lands; and as regards the land of Egypt, she will not prove to be an escapee. And he will actually rule over the hidden treasures of the gold and the silver and over all the desirable things of Egypt. And the Libyans and the Ethiopians will be at his steps.” (Daniel 11:42, 43) Even the king of the south, “Egypt,” did not escape the effects of the expansionist policies of the king of the north. For example, the king of the south suffered a notable defeat in Vietnam. And what of “the Libyans and the Ethiopians”? These neighbors of ancient Egypt might well foreshadow nations that are, geographically speaking, neighbors of modern “Egypt” (the king of the south). At times, they have been followers of—‘at the steps of’—the king of the north.

¹⁹ Has the king of the north ruled over ‘the hidden treasures of Egypt’? He has indeed had a powerful influence on the way that the king of the south has used his financial resources. Because of fear of his rival, the king of the south has devoted huge sums to maintaining a formidable army, navy, and air force. To this extent, the king of the north ‘ruled over,’ or controlled, the disposition of the wealth of the king of the south.

More than what the KOtS has spent, and it is as much as more than the next 10 countries combined, of course including Russia and China, is that there is an effective silent war for control for resources, and the KOtS is loosing.

Since a few years there is a buying spree by one of Russia allies, China.

China in effect controls most of the treasures under and above our feets. It includes not only gold and silver but also oil and other minerals unknown to Daniel like rare earth minerals. The buying spree changed sometime ago from the primary sector (extraction) to the secondary sector (transformation).

Also utilities like water and energy production and distribution belong to China, including in countries that are close allies of the KOtS. There is a strong fierce and not so silent war for the control of resources in Africa (where Egypt is) and in the Middle East (where Libya is).

But also in North America now there is a silent war between US and China for control of one of the land's resources. We always place Greenland in Europe's control and location, when in fact it is located in North America, the stronghold of the KOtS

 

 

[New World Explorer]

23 minutes ago, jwhess said:

As a wild imagining...what is China turned out to be the KotN in a year from now.  And they expanded their persecution of God's people and invaded the land of decoration then. 

I was thinking about that as well, and came to the conclusion that we don’t have enough representation in that land ....no branch, no visible Kingdom Halls, realm of God’s people is almost invisible over there ... anyway China is already involved in some way as a ally of current KOTN. 

[jwhess]

Did anyone recognize the "timeline" graph?  Is it adapted from an existing one?

[Sofia]

9 minutes ago, jwhess said:

Did anyone recognize the "timeline" graph?  Is it adapted from an existing one?

yes!

from the W may 2020:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2020/Rival-Kings-in-the-Time-of-the-End/

1 hour ago, Eejay said:

Brother Anthony Morris in the talk"This Is It" given at the 2018 AM.

Oh! one of my favorite talks ever!

[Hinata]

1 hour ago, Sofia said:

from the W may 2020:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2020/Rival-Kings-in-the-Time-of-the-End/

 

Around when we studied this was when there was 2020 Regional Convention in July-August. So many brothers did not get to fully study this article thoroughly. (I guess Brother @jwhess doesn’t remember because of this?) I wonder if the articles for 2021 July-August were written in mind that it would be a shortened discussion worldwide.

 

[Sofia]

31 minutes ago, Hinata said:

Around when we studied this was when there was 2020 Regional Convention in July-August. So many brothers did not get to fully study this article thoroughly.

It was a real shame in deed

in my congregation many didn’t understood completely the subject 🙄🙄🙄🙄

we have discussed later among ourselves and in private.

I ve studied it 6 times to understand well.

[jayrtom]

 

 

44 minutes ago, Hinata said:

 

Around when we studied this was when there was 2020 Regional Convention in July-August. So many brothers did not get to fully study this article thoroughly. (I guess Brother @jwhess doesn’t remember because of this?) I wonder if the articles for 2021 July-August were written in mind that it would be a shortened discussion worldwide.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Sofia said:

It was a real shame in deed

in my congregation many didn’t understood completely the subject 🙄🙄🙄🙄

we have discussed later among ourselves and in private.

I ve studied it 6 times to understand well.

But the wt study in the congregation should be just a review of what we have already studied at home

 

Adimited it is a difficult subject per si 😉

 

I remember when we studied the Daniel book, most of the brothers didn't understand and just commented reading verbation from the paragraphs.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by jayrtom

[James the Less]

3 hours ago, Thomas Walker said:

The KotN and KotS have changed identities multiple times. Is there a scripture to support this, or is this our interpretation, based on watching world events?

Great question. While there is not a scripture that blatantly says this, it is a logical conclusion to draw based on the wording used throughout Daniel chapter 11. When first describing the kings in the opening verses of chapter 11, the angel mentions the kingdoms of Persia and Greece. These were once great world powers, but not today. So obviously what the angel talks about initially had their fulfilment when those kingdoms were in full sway. (Dan. 11:2) Later, Daniel talks about the passing of “some years.” (Dan. 11:6) Throughout the prophecy, multiple expressions are made that indicate a transition of the role from one government to the next. In verse 4, it says the first king of the north will have his kingdom broken and uprooted. The king of the north could obviously not remain that initial government after it had been broken. Notice too that verses 20 and 21 use the expression “there will stand up in his [the king of the north’s] position.” This is another indicator that multiple governments would play the role of the king of the north.
 

Is there reason to believe that this prophecy stretches down to our time and wasn’t just fulfilled back in ancient history? Yes, because verses 40 onwards detail specifically what the king of the north would do in “the time of the end.”

 

I really liked the way Brother Cook illustrated it in the broadcast by using two thrones. They symbolise rulership and power, but any number of people could sit on those thrones throughout history. That is how the prophecy of the two kings plays out.

[Dages]

At the 14:12-17 min mark, I think we have another picture from the Daniel movie

That's an angel discussing with Daniel (maybe 8:2 ?)

Edited May 5, 2021 by Dages

[Br. Ice]

3 hours ago, jwhess said:

Did anyone recognize the "timeline" graph?  Is it adapted from an existing one?

Yes, it was great to see it being put to use in a visual presentation. 

[Mykyl]

How could China ever be the king if the north on its own. We’re not exactly on every street corner and well embedded there.
Russia was and is a different matter. We were well known and not hidden. It was very clear when they went after Gods people. Wouldn’t stand out so much in China. 
 

As usual I may be missing something. I always thought the king of the north was known by what he was doing to Jehovah’s people. Not by how big or powerful he was. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Mykyl

[Paulo]

2 minutes ago, Mykyl said:

How could China ever be the king if the north on its own.

 

How did you come to the conclusion that China could alone be the KOtN?

The FDS identified the KOtN as "Russia and its allies" and China is one of those allies.