Russia invades Ukraine

[jrnievas]

9 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

What does any of this have to do with God's people? Don't prophecies usually involve some connection to Jehovah's Earthly organization?

Absolutely. I agree with you brother. That's why, I said that it's just a theory.

Just now, Shawnster said:

trying to speculate that our current understanding is wrong

Sorry .. But I'm not trying to say that our current understanding is wrong, no, I'm not. Rather, I said that 'it is just a theory', a theory is ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained. And it has nothing to do in our current understanding and we will stick to that understanding until it'll explain by FDS.

Since Daniel 11:44, 45 wasn't already fulfilled, (nor, we didn't know if it's fulfilled), it is a current independent thing that we can speculate. Or is it just me that speculate about it?

If my comment cause you stumbled brothers and sisters, then, just delete my comment. That's okay to me. If you find my post immatured because it wasn't fit the organization understanding, then, I will not speculate about it.

Thank you.

[jrnievas]

15 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Im not seeing the wisdom or maturity in trying to speculate ... that this war just has to be related to Daniel's prophecy.  This might end up being like pushing a square peg in to a round hole. 

Does the war between Russia and Ukraine aren't related to Daniel's prophecy? Why the governing body use Daniel chapter 11 prophecy referring too to this war?

 

Just watch the first 1 minute of the governing body update.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/StudioNewsReports/docid-702022006_1_VIDEO

So, for me, it's not being immatured relating this war to Daniel's prophecy but rather, we're just keeping on the watch to the fulfilment of Daniel's prophecy.

 

[Tortuga]

 

World events are coming together like a jigsaw puzzle, we just need to be patient and not try to force the pieces together.

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, jrnievas said:

Rather, I said that 'it is just a theory'

And what generated the theory? 

 

My brother, I am not trying to pin you to the wall or imply you are being disloyal.  I understand how uncomfortable such (false) accusations are.  We all like to spitball ideas. 

 

You aren't the only one presenting alternative theories. It seems there are a lot of stirred up ideas and people are eagerly anticipating the Ukraine war to have a deeper connection to Daniel's prophecy than the pushing of the KOTN (which is the only application that GB update makes).  Instead of waiting to see, it's easy to stir each other up with our theories. 

 

(Proverbs 13:12) 12 Expectation postponed makes the heart sick,

But a desire realized is a tree of life.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwt&srctype=wol&bible=20013012&srcid=share

[Sofia]

4 hours ago, hatcheckgirl said:

 

 

We must be getting close to something big, hey?

Yep

i think so

that will have a strong retaliation for sure

keeping on the watch 🤔

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Don't we understand this to be when Jehovah causes Armageddon? If so, then why bring this scripture up in a conversation about the Ukraine war? I don't understand the connection 

He s now with no helper

no matter when his end comes 

we are seeing he has no help right now 

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, jrnievas said:

The question now is, why I feel that KOTN will use it nukes against 'the lands'?

Perhaps because propaganda in mass media mentions it… we may be influenced

 

personally I don’t think any mass destruction nuc will be launched

why? Because I trust Jehovah and there will be a great crowd of faithful survivors 

nucs are not selective

 

prophecy mentions at least twice enormous destruction caused by Anglo American power ( Hiroxima bombing)

but it doesn’t mention that from KOTN

mentions that will devote MANY to destruction 

it doesn’t say massive destruction 

 

This is just my thoughts 

[coolbrz731]

3 hours ago, jrnievas said:

What if, the 'reports out of the east and out of the north' were really came, not from God's people, but from the reports that KOTN have heard about losses of its annexation?

The only problem I see with this is that Ukraine is west of Russia, so reports would come from the west, not the east.

[Dages]

I'm wondering about the content of the update this month... Let's keep on the watch.

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Sofia said:

He s now with no helper

no matter when his end comes 

we are seeing he has no help right now 

No helper in regards to what? Our current understanding has nothing to do with military or political help in regards an invasion.  Our understanding is that the no helper is in regards to Jehovah's anger and the destruction at Armageddon. 

 

*** w20 May pp. 15-16 par. 16 Who Is “the King of the North” Today? ***

16 This attack by the king of the north, acting along with the rest of the world’s governments, provokes the Almighty and brings on the war of Armageddon. (Rev. 16:14, 16) At that time, the king of the north, along with the rest of the nations that make up Gog of Magog, comes to his end, and there will be “no helper for him”.—Dan. 11:45.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2020401&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=26

 

 

[Dhanyel]

Why are there groups of people who are fascinated with the number 11? They think that on the 11th or the 11th, something terrible is going to happen, has anyone ever heard of something like this? Is this a belief or group? They get paranoid about 11/11 November hahahah 

In 3 days it's October 11 😂😂😂😂 I don't think they will sleep 

[Sofia]

4 hours ago, Dages said:

I'm wondering about the content of the update this month... Let's keep on the watch.

Good News about Jesus update? I wish!

 

[jrnievas]

7 hours ago, Shawnster said:

And what generated the theory? 

 

My brother, I am not trying to pin you to the wall or imply you are being disloyal.  I understand how uncomfortable such (false) accusations are.  We all like to spitball ideas. 

 

You aren't the only one presenting alternative theories. It seems there are a lot of stirred up ideas and people are eagerly anticipating the Ukraine war to have a deeper connection to Daniel's prophecy than the pushing of the KOTN (which is the only application that GB update makes).  Instead of waiting to see, it's easy to stir each other up with our theories. 

 

(Proverbs 13:12) 12 Expectation postponed makes the heart sick,

But a desire realized is a tree of life.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwt&srctype=wol&bible=20013012&srcid=share

Thanks for reminder 

7 hours ago, coolbrz731 said:

The only problem I see with this is that Ukraine is west of Russia, so reports would come from the west, not the east.

Yeah .. 

[jrnievas]

7 hours ago, Sofia said:

Perhaps because propaganda in mass media mentions it… we may be influenced

 

personally I don’t think any mass destruction nuc will be launched

why? Because I trust Jehovah and there will be a great crowd of faithful survivors 

nucs are not selective

 

prophecy mentions at least twice enormous destruction caused by Anglo American power ( Hiroxima bombing)

but it doesn’t mention that from KOTN

mentions that will devote MANY to destruction 

it doesn’t say massive destruction 

 

This is just my thoughts 

Thank you .. I agree with this .. Maybe there is something about 'great tribulation' that is not related to nuclear destruction, but different from what is occur before and will not occur again .. 

[Sofia]

52 minutes ago, jrnievas said:

Thank you .. I agree with this .. Maybe there is something about 'great tribulation' that is not related to nuclear destruction, but different from what is occur before and will not occur again .. 

this week on the news it was said Europe is expecting a crisis unprecedented 

why? Because there was several factors that contributed 

(pandemic and Ukraine  war )

[jrnievas]

15 minutes ago, Sofia said:

this week on the news it was said Europe is expecting a crisis unprecedented 

why? Because there was several factors that contributed 

(pandemic and Ukraine  war )

actually, it's more frequent now to hear the expression about things that hasn't happened before .. 

[Sofia]

6 hours ago, jrnievas said:

actually, it's more frequent now to hear the expression about things that hasn't happened before .. 

actually we are seeing a LOT of expressions that we used to read in our publications related to the ending times

like “ unprecedented “ or  ”coalition “ or “ fear “ 

[Michał]

19 hours ago, jrnievas said:

Here's my theory about Daniel 11:44, 45

44 “But reports out of the east and out of the north will disturb him, and he will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction. 45 And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him."

 

 

1. What if, the 'reports out of the east and out of the north' were really came, not from God's people, but from the reports that KOTN have heard about losses of its annexation?

 

 

 

and

2. What if the words of Daniel about KOTN, 'he will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction', refers to the Nuclear destruction that the KOTN will do because of his 'great rage' caused by the 'reports'? Or maybe, it refers to the 'mass grave' and deaths of people that is affected by the war of Russia and Ukraine?

3. What about this one, 'He will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration.'

 

What if the royal tent refers to attempt annexation of Ukraine's territory? 
 

Since 'the grand sea' refers to the 'people of this world', maybe it is possible that the 'grand sea' here refers to the 'people of the Ukraine', especially since they consider it their home as well. A home that give them security and protection.
 

Now, if we read the Insight Book, the 'tent' refers to individual place of rest and protection. Since we have seen that Ukraine's territory now has no protection, the attempt annexation of Russia would possibly refers to 'planting his royal tents.' 
 

What about the 'holy mountain of Decoration'?
 

Perhaps, as KOTN, that time still conquering lands, it will also affect our spiritual land as well.
 

But at that time, we are sure, we will see that 'he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.'

And if we connect all of this to the Daniel 12:1 and 1 Thessalonians 5:3, it is more reasonable to think that before the Great Tribulation, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, there will be a time of 'peace' (false peace) where both KOTN and KOTS will have an agreement to 'end' the war in Ukraine because of what KOTN has done to it.

Remember the Hiroshima and Nagasaki Atomic bombing? It ends the WWII. Isn't it?

So, if Russia drop it, it will 'possibly' also end the war because KOTS will far to use its nuclear against Russia. KOTS know its possible effect to the world. After that, both will declared 'peace' that will affects the mind of this world. A false peace and false hope.
 

____

The question now is, why I feel that KOTN will use it nukes against 'the lands'?

Because, Jesus says that the 'great tribulation has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.' So, it is reasonable to think that there will be a 'big event' that will cause for the world to suffer so much. Does it fit to the 'nuclear destruction' but not to 'nuclear war'? Maybe.

 

____

Hmmmm, here's the summary of my theory:

1. Reports out of the east and out of the north will disturb him (Refers to the reports that KOTN will hear about Ukrainian forces recapturing the lands that KOTN annexed)

2.  He will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction. (possibly refers to nuclear destruction; or maybe mass graves)

 

3. He will plant his royal tents (annexation of territories) between the grand sea (people of Ukraine) and the holy mountain of Decoration (refers to the effects of war on our spiritual land)

4. He will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him. (Well, we are now seeing KOTN being isolated but we will see the full fulfilment of this prophecy after he devote many to destruction)

____

Well, that's just my theory, let's just wait for Jehovah until he revealed it to us. 

I really Appreciate your efforts …

 

… but (sorry 🙏🏼) your reasoning is way off our current understanding given by FDS. Still, I love you very much 🥰

[New World Explorer]

Personal speculation: be forgiving please 

Spoiler

I recon Putin will not be in charge when they attack God's people during GT, we know that Ten horns, all political powers cooperate in the attack on false religion, Peace and Security proclaimed before that. Thus, it's highly possible that different leader will in charge, as nobody really wants to deal with Putin anymore. Zelensky even said that peace negotiations will not resume while Putin is in place. Current Russian regime has too many war-crimes lined up against them as well. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/23/russia-has-committed-war-crimes-in-ukraine-say-un-investigators High speculation of course, I can be assuming too much, so please be kind 

 

[jeje]

The mention that KOTN will devote many to destruction will probably occur during great tribulation as it is strongly linked with Daniel 12:1 "During that time" and we hope it is not related with nukes but even it is also possible that we will be protected in some manner during that time.

And therefore, it makes sense that the reports out of the east and out of the north are both related to the destruction of religions that will trigger that great tribution, as the destruction of religions comes from Jehovah himself (reports from the east) and executed by UN as the coalition of nations (reports from the north). Anyway, I don't see from where the reports from east could come except from Jehovah, and losses from Ukraine would be reports from the south instead as in some manner Ukraine is supported by KOTS. 

For the moment, I can only see the realization of verses 11:40-43 but it's clear that with all of the agitation that we can see with the KOTN, it's time to be alert as the next verses can occur at any moment from now after declaration of peace and security where KOTN can be involved.

[Michał]

2 hours ago, jeje said:

executed by UN as the coalition of nations (reports from the north)

Or reports from the north are from within KOTN?

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, New World Explorer said:

Personal speculation: be forgiving please 

  Hide contents

I recon Putin will not be in charge when they attack God's people during GT, we know that Ten horns, all political powers cooperate in the attack on false religion, Peace and Security proclaimed before that. Thus, it's highly possible that different leader will in charge, as nobody really wants to deal with Putin anymore. Zelensky even said that peace negotiations will not resume while Putin is in place. Current Russian regime has too many war-crimes lined up against them as well. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/23/russia-has-committed-war-crimes-in-ukraine-say-un-investigators High speculation of course, I can be assuming too much, so please be kind 

 

Some will hate my comment 

but brother Greg I agree with you so much.

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, jeje said:

For the moment, I can only see the realization of verses 11:40-43 

Clearly!! It’s amazing to see this happening just in front of the eyes!😃👌👌

3 hours ago, jeje said:

as the next verses can occur at any moment from now

Absolutely 

[Sofia]

1 hour ago, Michał said:

Or reports from the north are from within KOTN?

If just if chapter 11:44 is being fullfilled NOW ( I’m not sure I don’t have the holy spirit I’m not the channel)

reports from North are definitely the fear of a coup from the Russians ( the fear of losing power thus the need to do something big to reinforce his power)

the reports from East can be

the threat from Ukraine (located at EASTERN Europe) entering OTAN. That would bring the KOTS at KOTN door steps.

 

The east or north are geographical locations depending on your place

if you are in Russia you say Russian threats of coup de etat are located in the north it self

 

as for Ukraine it’s been said on the news that it’s located on the EASTERN of Europe

 

but this is speculation 

 

another speculation: verse 44 may be independent from verse 45

Only time will tell

 

Leaving out with rage means that leaves his territory to go to another territory to kill many

But not causing Massive destruction

( no nucs envolved most possibly)

 

then on 45 he places his tents ( military temporary occupation) between the sea and the holy mountain

 

can this be a later event ?

 

or 44 and 45 are in sequence?

 

we are seeing Russia being isolated

and verse 45 shows that before it’s end KOTN had no helper 

 

we need to wait a lot more to see if all these speculations will be fullfilled or not

 

this means we are watchful! That’s good I think

[runner92]

21 hours ago, Shawnster said:

And what generated the theory? 

 

My brother, I am not trying to pin you to the wall or imply you are being disloyal.  I understand how uncomfortable such (false) accusations are.  We all like to spitball ideas. 

 

You aren't the only one presenting alternative theories. It seems there are a lot of stirred up ideas and people are eagerly anticipating the Ukraine war to have a deeper connection to Daniel's prophecy than the pushing of the KOTN (which is the only application that GB update makes).  Instead of waiting to see, it's easy to stir each other up with our theories. 

 

(Proverbs 13:12) 12 Expectation postponed makes the heart sick,

But a desire realized is a tree of life.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwt&srctype=wol&bible=20013012&srcid=share

 

 

This happens with a lot of world events in this thread. I get everyone's anxious for the end, but sometimes the assumptions and beliefs about the event get to be a bit too much.