Deportation of undocumented

[trottigy]

https://www.wola.org/2025/01/weekly-u-s-mexico-border-update-a-quiet-border-mass-deportation-military-flights/

 

Quote

During the seven days between January 22 and January 28, ICE reported on its Twitter account arresting 5,537 migrants inside the United States, and issuing “detainers”—requests for state and local law enforcement to hand over people in their custody—4,333 times.

 

This amount is not a radical departure from what it was during the Biden administration, Vox and the Associated Press noted.

 

According to PBS currently there are 13.7 million who are in the US illegally. At a rate of 1,000 a day (that's more than already being removed) it would take 13,700 days or more than 37.5 years to remove them. (Just for math's sake - it would take removing 37,500 per day, every day for the next 4 years to get that many people removed. )

 

 

I wonder what the cost of doing all of that will be?

 

Note: the first link is a good one for those interested in accurate reporting.

Edited February 12 by trottigy

[Katty]

A lot more than it would have been if many of them weren't allowed to enter in the first place.

Immigration will never be an easy or simple issue so long as this  system exists because we live in unprecedented times in regard to the things that make immigration possible in the first place:
* Unequal wealth distribution among nations, and
* Access to long distance transportation

Even if it turned out to be untrue that NGO's and the UN are aiding undocumented migrants to enter countries illegally, it's still never been easier for people to do so.  Therefore, to set up a means by which those who are attempting to either enter or remain in a country after entering, can be evaluated and for some to be denied access based on past history is such a daunting task that it's inevitable that the cost of will be great, that it will require much effort, and that it's futile to ensure that no one enters or remains without thorough vetting. However, the US voting base believes that whatever sacrifices are needed are worth it. Not only did Trump have a majority vote, but exit polls revealed that immigration was the biggest reason they voted for him. He is simply doing what his voter base wanted. 

 

I mean, every government solution comes with problems because humans were not meant to rule themselves, but we live in democracies wherein the voter base chooses which problems their willing to put up with based on what solutions they want, but that has nothing to do with us, because no one who lives in this world has a hope in anything better than what this system has to offer. 

 

Our hope is in a scenario that is not possible in this system: open borders AND no crime. 

Edited February 12 by Katty

[Hope]

I'm most sorry for those who have been here since infancy, toddlers - never knowing their native country - but deported anyway. Not thieves or murderers, but husbands, fathers or young children.   I read of such an example yesterday. The man was arrested in front of his young son when they were on the way to school. He's been in the U.S. since he was two years old, never been to El Salvador. But he's going now..

 

This entire system is so horrible. A merciless, ignorant, horrible system. Come, Lord Jesus.

[Brandon]

Funnily enough I’m listening to a podcast with an economic and two immigration lawyers and the economist cited a study that showed that if all borders were opened / dissolved right now, the total world GDP would go up, but the richest countries’ GDPs would slightly go down. Selfishness ruins things for evegrone…

 

It would mean overall people would be doing much better everywhere and be more productive overall. (you’d also need all countries to agree to do it at the same time)

[shelby]

I am very concerned that brown people are going to be pulled from construction sites and such places, deport first, ask questions later.  I have a nephew in Arizona who is legal, my sister adopted him from Mexico.  He doesn’t speak any Spanish other than what he has picked up.  He would not be the first, and there is going to be pressure to get those numbers up.  He has two children…My sis is trying to get him to start carrying his papers, but he objects…he doesn’t need to, he is legal.  (He is not a JW, but his parents are.). I fear for my sister, mainly.  She would not handle it well if he were lost and she couldn’t find him, or if they picked up the children.

[Hope]

32 minutes ago, shelby said:

I am very concerned that brown people are going to be pulled from construction sites and such places, deport first, ask questions later.  I have a nephew in Arizona who is legal, my sister adopted him from Mexico.  He doesn’t speak any Spanish other than what he has picked up.  He would not be the first, and there is going to be pressure to get those numbers up.  He has two children…My sis is trying to get him to start carrying his papers, but he objects…he doesn’t need to, he is legal.  (He is not a JW, but his parents are.). I fear for my sister, mainly.  She would not handle it well if he were lost and she couldn’t find him, or if they picked up the children.

 

Your sis is right to be concerned. Brown people seem to be the focus, despite there being plenty of non-brown people who are here illegally, too..  

[Dages]

43 minutes ago, shelby said:

I am very concerned that brown people are going to be pulled from construction sites and such places, deport first, ask questions later.  I have a nephew in Arizona who is legal, my sister adopted him from Mexico.  He doesn’t speak any Spanish other than what he has picked up.  He would not be the first, and there is going to be pressure to get those numbers up.  He has two children…My sis is trying to get him to start carrying his papers, but he objects…he doesn’t need to, he is legal.  (He is not a JW, but his parents are.). I fear for my sister, mainly.  She would not handle it well if he were lost and she couldn’t find him, or if they picked up the children.

Wait, you guys never have any paper on yourself daily?
I always have everything just in case the police wants to check (never happened though )

[Julsey]

On 2/12/2025 at 5:08 PM, Hope said:

I'm most sorry for those who have been here since infancy, toddlers - never knowing their native country - but deported anyway. Not thieves or murderers, but husbands, fathers or young children.   I read of such an example yesterday. The man was arrested in front of his young son when they were on the way to school. He's been in the U.S. since he was two years old, never been to El Salvador. But he's going now..

 

This entire system is so horrible. A merciless, ignorant, horrible system. Come, Lord Jesus.

Yes, but if he’s been here that long, he’s had a lot of time to “get right” with the law. The fact that he didn’t tells me that he wanted to continue to fly under the radar. He fathered children, probably hoping it would - as it has done for so many others - “anchor” him to the U.S. He didn’t seem to think too much about how his children would feel if Immigration caught up with him. I don’t feel sorry for him, but I do feel sorry for his son. 

[Julsey]

2 hours ago, Dages said:

Wait, you guys never have any paper on yourself daily?
I always have everything just in case the police wants to check (never happened though )

If you are a legal resident (not a citizen) in the U.S., you have to carry papers with you at all times. 

[Hope]

Sad thing is that they're also pulling people who ARE citizens- Puerto Ricans, Native Americans.. shucks, I'm regularly asked if I speak Spanish. What papers should be carried?

 

It would be nice if we could have kinder, more empathetic feelings for those who will be hurt in these proceedings.. 😔

[BLEmom]

A nice Awake from years ago on Aliens. Why they move, the difficulties they face and how we can treat them. 
 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101992321

mans this study article on Kindness to strangers. 
 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402016762

 

 

[Julsey]

11 hours ago, Hope said:

Sad thing is that they're also pulling people who ARE citizens- Puerto Ricans, Native Americans.. shucks, I'm regularly asked if I speak Spanish. What papers should be carried?

 

It would be nice if we could have kinder, more empathetic feelings for those who will be hurt in these proceedings.. 😔

Obviously, no system in this world is perfect. I’m sure those that were taken and who turned out to be citizens were released/returned.

 

 As to papers, I said ‘legal residents,’ not citizens. Legal residents is a legal term that refers to people here who have a green card, and have not yet become citizens. US citizens do not have to carry any papers. 

 

And I do have sympathy, especially for the children, but being kind and sympathetic does not mean turning a blind eye to lawlessness. What is happening now is enforcement of laws that were passed decades ago. And the U.S. has been the least harsh in this area. When I moved to the UK in 1978 and when my parents moved to Switzerland and Germany in the late 1950’s, we all had to go to the police station within 24 hours of reaching our final destination and register. If we didn’t, we could be picked up at any time and escorted to the next available transatlantic flight. If you move to Mexico without permission, and the authorities find you, you are deported. This is what happens in every country.

 

Years ago, where I am right now, brothers from the English speaking congregations, if they were bilingual, were encouraged to move to the Spanish congregation in our area. Why? Even though the Spanish congregation had brothers who were spiritually strong, they were not considered by the Society to be in good standing, due to their immigration status, so could not be appointed as servants.

 

Edited Saturday at 03:23 PM by Julsey

[shelby]

15 hours ago, Dages said:

Wait, you guys never have any paper on yourself daily?
I always have everything just in case the police wants to check (never happened though )

Almost everyone has a driver’s license, but there is so much garbage commenting about “fake” documentation that a zealot isn’t going to take his paperwork into consideration and may never ask for it.  I would not suggest him coming here rather than AZ, he would be difficult to “hide” here in red hat land.  Hoping if they do grab him, his lack of an accent will work in his favor.  Depends on how whipped up the population gets, I guess.  
 

 

[shelby]

12 hours ago, Hope said:

Sad thing is that they're also pulling people who ARE citizens- Puerto Ricans, Native Americans.. shucks, I'm regularly asked if I speak Spanish. What papers should be carried?

 

It would be nice if we could have kinder, more empathetic feelings for those who will be hurt in these proceedings.. 😔

I would wish that Shawn would carry a passport card.  He let his passport expire, so he can’t get a card when he renews his passport. Like that might help?  Only if La Migra is truly only looking for  “illegals”.  
 

if it does happen and they can find out where he is, hopefully some Witnesses can get in contact with him. They came through in a huge way when my son died in Mexico and his wife was stranded.

[Brandon]

To make it even more gross, the CEO of one of the biggest private prison companies in the US told investors he’s very excited about the “growth” due to his company’s contract with ICE/US govt:

 

[carlos]

On 2/12/2025 at 5:45 PM, trottigy said:

According to PBS currently there are 13.7 million who are in the US illegally. At a rate of 1,000 a day (that's more than already being removed) it would take 13,700 days or more than 37.5 years to remove them.

 

I don't think the point ever was removing all illegal immigrants. It's a publicity stunt. If people hear illegal immigrants are being returned, it will have a deterrent effect. People thinking of immigrating illegally to the US will now consider other destinations or maybe stay where they are.

 

Of course any measures taken by any human government will have some unjust and unpleasant consequences. But at the same time, a government has the right to enforce the law. It's very difficult not to take sides when we hear these kind of measures.

[boodles]

On 2/14/2025 at 7:12 PM, Julsey said:

Yes, but if he’s been here that long, he’s had a lot of time to “get right” with the law. The fact that he didn’t tells me that he wanted to continue to fly under the radar. He fathered children, probably hoping it would - as it has done for so many others - “anchor” him to the U.S. He didn’t seem to think too much about how his children would feel if Immigration caught up with him. I don’t feel sorry for him, but I do feel sorry for his son. 

 

Actually, I would say most undocumented people do NOT have a way to "get right" with the law, legally. That's the issue with the current laws in the US. For many, there is no "pathway" to be legal in the US, neither with children born in the US, nor even being married to a US citizen. Because they entered the country illegally and stayed past 180 days in the US. So when they file to get their greencard, they face a mandatory 10 year ban. Then, their only option is to leave the country, at least until they can get a waiver. (If this has changed in the past 9 years, I'd say great. But as far as I know it hasn't.) I've been through the process. It really does mess up people's lives to have to self-deport, or be deported. It tears up families. I have compassion for them, especially for JWs in this situation.

Edited Sunday at 10:28 AM by boodles

[shelby]

I remember this mess from Reagan presidency.  He at least tried to do an amnesty thing, but so many in the area that I lived (California’s San Joaquin valley) were taken advantage of by “helpers” who charged $500 to $1K to fill out papers which were never submitted.  This was so common it made the local newspaper where along with the news was a warning to people not to depend on someone they paid to follow through.  There was a time limit, and some who were taken advantage of ran out of time for their resubmitted paperwork to be approved.  
 

So even when there is a somewhat ethical compromise, the unethicalcome out of the woodwork.  

[shelby]

15 hours ago, Brandon said:

To make it even more gross, the CEO of one of the biggest private prison companies in the US told investors he’s very excited about the “growth” due to his company’s contract with ICE/US govt:

 

Follow the money

[shelby]

22 hours ago, Julsey said:

Obviously, no system in this world is perfect. I’m sure those that were taken and who turned out to be citizens were released/returned.

 

 As to papers, I said ‘legal residents,’ not citizens. Legal residents is a legal term that refers to people here who have a green card, and have not yet become citizens. US citizens do not have to carry any papers. 

 

 

We can only hope…I have not heard of any whe have been “repatriated” if actually sent to one of those countries.  Most likely they would be responsible for figuring out how to get back home.  “Born in East LA” was a comedy…if my nephew gets picked up, I will fail to see the humor.  No, Shawn does not “have” to carry papers, and he objects to having to do it.  We just want him to be “safe”, knowing that if he does get swept up it is going to depend on the political climate and the reasonableness of the agents who conduct the bust.  He works construction, but as a heavy equipment operator.  Can’t just pick them up in front of Home Depot.  Oh well, Phoenix desert  is becoming overbuilt anyway

[cricket246]

I'm worried about the ones who have been working to get legal citizenship, but their papers were lost or it's been years and they're still waiting.... I'll be glad when Jehovah steps in and shows everyone what real love and justice really is.

Edited Monday at 05:05 AM by cricket246

[Katty]

On 2/16/2025 at 10:26 AM, boodles said:

 

Actually, I would say most undocumented people do NOT have a way to "get right" with the law, legally. That's the issue with the current laws in the US. For many, there is no "pathway" to be legal in the US, neither with children born in the US, nor even being married to a US citizen. Because they entered the country illegally and stayed past 180 days in the US. So when they file to get their greencard, they face a mandatory 10 year ban. Then, their only option is to leave the country, at least until they can get a waiver. (If this has changed in the past 9 years, I'd say great. But as far as I know it hasn't.) I've been through the process. It really does mess up people's lives to have to self-deport, or be deported. It tears up families. I have compassion for them, especially for JWs in this situation.

There is, indeed, a long waiting list to attain an actual visa to the US. The solution to this issue would to make legal immigration easier, less expensive and more attainable to the average person, for spouses and dependant children of residents and citizens. It would make things easier both for home offices and everyone else involved if, maybe, potential spouses didn't need: an engagement visa, then a marriage visa a few months later, then another marriage visa a year and half later, then, another and another, over a 5 to 10 year time period, before the spouse or family member can hope to attain the security of a long term residency and the opportunity for citizenship. There's no reason for that. It's a money grift. If you're marrying a citizen or resident of another country, all a country needs to determine "Okay, they have a genuine relationship. No one is being trafficked and the spouse coming into the country isn't a criminal. Okay good to go." 
To say the above is not the same thing as saying we should just let everyone in no matter what they do. I actually think Elon was not wrong when he said the best way to dissuade illegal immigration is to make legal immigration easier and more attainable. For some reason people on both sides of the political spectrum attacked him for saying this and planning to make H1B visas more attainable, not less. (I mean, he also said that there was a shortage in good developers in the US, but, to be fair, he wasn't entirely wrong there either. I'd think the CEO of a tech company would be in the best position to know if this was really true).

 

[bobby]

I think it's an interesting on one side you have people saying that they don't want undocumented people in this country and we have laws they should be obeying on the other hand you have people who say we need them here but yet they make it almost impossible for them to come here legally so for the ones here that are undocumented what are the incentives for them to become citizens of the United states I just find this whole being interesting some people would say well they need help and that's why they come here well there are U.S. citizens who need help who may not be receiving the help they need or getting very little of it so I would ask is it OK to break the law if you need help