GB 2025 Update #4

[Dages]

19 hours ago, Sofia said:

I understand you so well 😳

A sister in my previous Cong had a study with whom she did the excommunicated part, and on this very week we got the update about them. Fun 😊 

[Jimi-L]

2 hours ago, Tronora said:

I don't see birthdays coming. I would much rather celebrate my faithful service to Jehovah on my date of baptism. One more year in the truth ❤️ 

 

I wish the organisation would make more out of the end of a service year and/or the beginning of a new one. Time for reflection, and time for setting new goals. Like a kick-off  Year-planning. It's been a personal ambition of mine, but it sort of runs out of steam to be a one-woman kick-off team.

 

Please no shoot-down, ok? Please try to understand what I mean. I wish we could form work-groups where we discussed our personal goals (without a spirit of competition) Maybe because I don't have family in the truth. 

I doubt that pagan holidays are coming, there's no reason to celebrate them, but I would believe that there will be some subtle adjustments, for example, to how we approach certain individual customs or greetings, as happened now.

 

 

[Mike047]

For some of us, the deeply ingrained negative reaction to certain customs will continue to affect our personal views of them. It is helpful, though, to see that individuals may make a personal choice on many things that we used to avoid. Just as long as we are making personal application of correctly understood bible principles.

[ladiife]

2 hours ago, truce said:

What??????!!!!

Stop judging. That’s his business between him Jesus and Jehovah 

[Robinson]

So, toasting is now a personal decision. Taking what they say in consideration and applying it to things where there are no scriptural law, context or principal. There are some things that are easy to debunk, like Christmas. The lies about Jesus' birth, Santa, the star, the 3 wise men. So, goes for Easter, Valentines, etc., easy to debunk.

 

But, what would it mean for something like Thanksgiving? Most people don't see it as a religious custom or they don't see it as wrong because you're showing gratitude. From the 30's to the 80's, there was about 15 articles from the organization that mentioned Thanksgiving. From the 80's till now. There's there's about 5 mentions of Thanksgiving Day. In fact, there hasn't been anything written about Thanksgiving Day in about 20 years (last article was in 2006).

 

Someone asked me about why we don't celebrate Thanksgiving and I had the hardest time coming up with a biblical principal or text. I kept saying, "well, it's rooted in pagan customs and we steer clear of traditions rooted in pagan customs." But, I couldn't even give her what customs from Thanksgiving were rooted in paganism, because I truly don't know what they do at Thanksgiving that is pagan. And she said, "But, is it really wrong to get with family and friends and tell them and/or God that you're thankful for them and/or thankful for God and his blessings?" I had NOTHING to come back with. So, I responded, "Well, maybe it's not a big deal for us because we always get together as Jehovah's Witnesses for food and association and we always give thanks together. So, 1 day isn't a big deal for us because we do it all the time."

 

I went back and prayed and tried to find something in the organizations material and I couldn't find texts or principals for or against Thanksgiving Day that I could show her. The next time I saw her, I prayed to Jehovah that she didn't ask me about Thanksgiving again, because I didn't know what else to say. I truly felt inadequate because I just truly didnt know how to answer her.

 

Would this be a case of Christian conscience, too? Or is this still a no, even though there is no biblical text or principal surrounding the celebration of Thanksgiving? Or is this just one I'll have to learn to be comfortable with not understanding and just don't celebrate it?

[Shawnster]

5 hours ago, Tronora said:

Please no shoot-down, ok? Please try to understand what I mean. I wish we could form work-groups where we discussed our personal goals (without a spirit of competition) Maybe because I don't have family in the truth. 

What is stopping you from doing so? We are encouraged to invite ones over. We are encouraged to have others join us in personal study/family worship. Why not invite a couple of couples or families over and do this for personal study/family worship? 

[Doug]

I find it interesting that our brothers and sisters in India use the "prayer hands" gesture Anjali Mudra.

 

Better known as Namaste, it carries deep cultural and spiritual significance.

 

It is used to show respect to the elderly, teachers, or anyone held in high regard.

 

I like it. I think we should all use that gesture, along with hugs.   ❤️

 

 

[trottigy]

I think it's important to review those three principles again, because it seems like some are not remembering them. The update didn't say all toasting is now okay. They just said they don't see a reason to prohibit it and instead want us to use principles for when it would be okay. If that's true for something as simple as toasting, wouldn't you have to apply these principles for everything?

 

The slave is not saying all celebrations are okay now.

 

This is from the transcript: 

3.1. [Principle 1of3] Would Jehovah Be Offended by This?

At 2 Corinthians 6:17, Jehovah gives us clear direction: “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’; ‘and I will take you in.’”

 

This principle emphasizes that Christians must stay far away from any symbol or custom related to false religion or spiritism.

 

3.2. [Principle 2of3] How Would This Affect Others in the Congregation?

Romans 14:19 and 21 remind us: “So, then, let us pursue the things making for peace and the things that build one another up.” “It is best not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.” 

 

Even if a symbol or custom isn’t wrong in itself, we need to consider how others in the congregation might view it. We would never want our actions to offend others needlessly. At the same time, as mature Christians we respect the right that others have to make their own decisions based on their Bible-trained conscience.

 

3.3. [Principle 3of3] How Is This Symbol or Custom Viewed by People in My Culture or Community?

The Bible principle at 1 Corinthians 9:20, 21, and 23 is: “To the Jews I became as a Jew in order to gain Jews; to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law. To those without law I became as without law, although I am not without law toward God but under law toward Christ, in order to gain those without law.” “But I do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others.”

 

The principle here is that we take into account how others feel about and view matters. Knowing how a certain symbol or custom is viewed in our own country or community is very important. Something that is very offensive in our land or culture may be viewed as completely innocent in another land or culture.

 

---------------------------

 

Let's use these for birthdays as an example: 

 

1. Do we think Jehovah would be offended if we participated in a celebration that elevated one person over another, used astrological symbols as part of the celebration (i.e. cake in the shape of a moon/ round with twinkling stars/, making a wish while blowing on those stars/ candles), etc.. 

 

 

2. How would this affect our brothers and sisters - especially ones and the truth for a long time? How will this affect our children and then doing their best to remain no part of this world? If it's a slippery slope to stop a prohibition on toasting, how slippery of a slope would it be to stop a Prohibition on birthdays? Is that really the slippery slope we want to ride down?

 

3. It's not judging to remember that our brothers and sisters who've been in the truth for a very long time would clearly be offended by birthdays. You can count me in as one of those who thinks a celebration set based an astrological time and based on astrology while using astrological symbols and that  the day of one's birth has some significance that needs celebrating! 

 

2 Corinthians 6:17 says "quit touching the unclean thing". We must avoid unclean/spiritistic practices. Jehovah says we have to be holy as he is holy. We wouldn't even want to touch this unholy thing IMO.

 

Edit: seeing these principles tells you this is not just the thing between you and Jehovah. This is a thing that affects the entire congregation and that has to be taken into consideration as well.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by trottigy

[Osprey]

On 7/5/2025 at 4:35 AM, LeolaRootStew said:

 

Blessing someone after they sneeze has only one purpose: to affirm your belief in a superstition that says their life is in danger unless you appeal to God. The action of blessing someone is intrinsically tied to the reason for blessing them. The action can never be neutral because you would only act because of a superstition.

 

I never saw it that way. Sneezing may mean he is becoming sick. In our language we say something like wishing him good health, and I never saw what could be wrong with that. Other people in our country see it the same way. And nobody thinks we will prevent him to die by saying this, that thought is ridiculous.

Edited 1 hour ago by Osprey

[LeolaRootStew]

5 hours ago, Robinson said:

So, toasting is now a personal decision. Taking what they say in consideration and applying it to things where there are no scriptural law, context or principal. There are some things that are easy to debunk, like Christmas. The lies about Jesus' birth, Santa, the star, the 3 wise men. So, goes for Easter, Valentines, etc., easy to debunk.

 

But, what would it mean for something like Thanksgiving? Most people don't see it as a religious custom or they don't see it as wrong because you're showing gratitude. From the 30's to the 80's, there was about 15 articles from the organization that mentioned Thanksgiving. From the 80's till now. There's there's about 5 mentions of Thanksgiving Day. In fact, there hasn't been anything written about Thanksgiving Day in about 20 years (last article was in 2006).

 

Someone asked me about why we don't celebrate Thanksgiving and I had the hardest time coming up with a biblical principal or text. I kept saying, "well, it's rooted in pagan customs and we steer clear of traditions rooted in pagan customs." But, I couldn't even give her what customs from Thanksgiving were rooted in paganism, because I truly don't know what they do at Thanksgiving that is pagan. And she said, "But, is it really wrong to get with family and friends and tell them and/or God that you're thankful for them and/or thankful for God and his blessings?" I had NOTHING to come back with. So, I responded, "Well, maybe it's not a big deal for us because we always get together as Jehovah's Witnesses for food and association and we always give thanks together. So, 1 day isn't a big deal for us because we do it all the time."

 

I went back and prayed and tried to find something in the organizations material and I couldn't find texts or principals for or against Thanksgiving Day that I could show her. The next time I saw her, I prayed to Jehovah that she didn't ask me about Thanksgiving again, because I didn't know what else to say. I truly felt inadequate because I just truly didnt know how to answer her.

 

Would this be a case of Christian conscience, too? Or is this still a no, even though there is no biblical text or principal surrounding the celebration of Thanksgiving? Or is this just one I'll have to learn to be comfortable with not understanding and just don't celebrate it?

 

Just consider how many Native Americans refer to Thanksgiving as "Invasion Day" and you can see that it's clearly a divisive political holiday. The 3rd reasoning point in the update was "how is this viewed in the local culture". In our local culture it is viewed as taking sides on a political issue of "Americans" vs "Indigenous people". Does that sound like something a Christian should be taking sides on? 

 

For further review:

 

 

 

[Robinson]

On 7/4/2025 at 2:00 PM, Joe said:

Thanksgiving will be next...

Just wrote a post on this. This is widely celebrated even amongst those who have native American blood/ancestry in certain regions/localities. Very little has come out about this from the organization in 40 years. And I've found nothing about it in the last 20 years from the organization. It does make me wonder...

[Andrey]

It seems we are getting closer and closer to this principle:

 

Let the one eating not look down on the one not eating, and let the one not eating not judge the one eating, for God has welcomed him.—Romans 14:3 

 

One man judges one day as above another; another judges one day the same as all others; let each one be fully convinced in his own mind.—Romans 14:5

 

Therefore, do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath.—Colossians 2:16

Edited 19 minutes ago by Andrey

[truce]

1 hour ago, trottigy said:

I think it's important to review those three principles again, because it seems like some are not remembering them. The update didn't say all toasting is now okay. They just said they don't see a reason to prohibit it and instead want us to use principles for when it would be okay. If that's true for something as simple as toasting, wouldn't you have to apply these principles for everything?

 

The slave is not saying all celebrations are okay now.

 

This is from the transcript: 

3.1. [Principle 1of3] Would Jehovah Be Offended by This?

At 2 Corinthians 6:17, Jehovah gives us clear direction: “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’; ‘and I will take you in.’”

 

This principle emphasizes that Christians must stay far away from any symbol or custom related to false religion or spiritism.

 

3.2. [Principle 2of3] How Would This Affect Others in the Congregation?

Romans 14:19 and 21 remind us: “So, then, let us pursue the things making for peace and the things that build one another up.” “It is best not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.” 

 

Even if a symbol or custom isn’t wrong in itself, we need to consider how others in the congregation might view it. We would never want our actions to offend others needlessly. At the same time, as mature Christians we respect the right that others have to make their own decisions based on their Bible-trained conscience.

 

3.3. [Principle 3of3] How Is This Symbol or Custom Viewed by People in My Culture or Community?

The Bible principle at 1 Corinthians 9:20, 21, and 23 is: “To the Jews I became as a Jew in order to gain Jews; to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law. To those without law I became as without law, although I am not without law toward God but under law toward Christ, in order to gain those without law.” “But I do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others.”

 

The principle here is that we take into account how others feel about and view matters. Knowing how a certain symbol or custom is viewed in our own country or community is very important. Something that is very offensive in our land or culture may be viewed as completely innocent in another land or culture.

 

---------------------------

 

Let's use these for birthdays as an example: 

 

1. Do we think Jehovah would be offended if we participated in a celebration that elevated one person over another, used astrological symbols as part of the celebration (i.e. cake in the shape of a moon/ round with twinkling stars/, making a wish while blowing on those stars/ candles), etc.. 

 

 

2. How would this affect our brothers and sisters - especially ones and the truth for a long time? How will this affect our children and then doing their best to remain no part of this world? If it's a slippery slope to stop a prohibition on toasting, how slippery of a slope would it be to stop a Prohibition on birthdays? Is that really the slippery slope we want to ride down?

 

3. It's not judging to remember that our brothers and sisters who've been in the truth for a very long time would clearly be offended by birthdays. You can count me in as one of those who thinks a celebration set based an astrological time and based on astrology while using astrological symbols and that  the day of one's birth has some significance that needs celebrating! 

 

2 Corinthians 6:17 says "quit touching the unclean thing". We must avoid unclean/spiritistic practices. Jehovah says we have to be holy as he is holy. We wouldn't even want to touch this unholy thing IMO.

 

Edit: seeing these principles tells you this is not just the thing between you and Jehovah. This is a thing that affects the entire congregation and that has to be taken into consideration as well.

 

Thanks. I couldn't have said it any better.

[truce]

1 hour ago, Robinson said:

Just wrote a post on this. This is widely celebrated even amongst those who have native American blood/ancestry in certain regions/localities. Very little has come out about this from the organization in 40 years. And I've found nothing about it in the last 20 years from the organization. It does make me wonder...

Are we suddenly looking for reasons to celebrate things we never did? Have we truly missed out on anything good because we do not partake in such celebrations?