DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[Dages]

Google Translate, but it looks different, that's true.

Feel free to post yours

[P4S50]

17 minutes ago, And_Ray said:

I am at work as well, but i can't focus on work... With my mind I'm in the courtroom... 

Same here

[New World Explorer]

1 minute ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

He is not a lawyer, but thinks that the actions of the ministry lead the fight against extremism on a false track. 

[molnarj]

Maybe Neil can pick it up. He writes what I see as well.

[Dages]

Ok, I'll use the other method.

 

Here are all the text from this morning : 

 

9am	In Moscow, a soft rain drizzles. Along the facade of the Supreme Court stretched a large queue of those who came to the process as listeners. A large bus is parked at the courthouse on Povarskaya Street, full of obviously bored police officers. Such a loud process seems to be a riotous event for court employees. However, surprising calm, which, despite obvious excitement, is preserved by hundreds of believers, convinces better than any words that extremism is not about them.
9:40 am	The Great Hall of the Supreme Court is gradually filled with listeners and journalists.
10am	The process began with questions of the court to the representative of the Ministry of Justice. The court is trying to understand that the plaintiff charges the Management Center with an episode from 2014, when, according to the ministry, the Management Center imported a publication to Russia, which would later be recognized as extremist materials. The court is interested in the question of how the religious organization could know that the book will be recognized as extremist if it is not in the FSEM.
10:10	The court tries to understand which rule of law the Justice Ministry relies on, arguing that local religious organizations (MPOs) are "structural subdivisions" of the Management Center. The Justice Ministry believes that this is logical, since organizations read the same literature and are related to each other. The court asks how, in this case, this meets the requirements of legal certainty. Will this not violate the right to freedom of religion enshrined in the European Convention? After all, it was denied the involvement of 395 organizations to participate in the case as co-defendants. Questions remain without distinct answers.
10:20	The judge asks the representative of the Ministry of Justice, on the basis of which they claim that the financing of the LRO by the Management Center is precisely the financing of "extremist activity"? What is objectively proved? If nothing, then what are the claims of the Ministry of Justice based on?
10:28	The queue of objections goes to the defendants. However, first of all, the lawyer Omelchenko applies for the inclusion in the case of extracts from the Russian newspaper with the dates of the entry of certain publications into the FSEM. The court adjuncts.
10:35	The first speaker is Vasily Kalin, chairman of the steering committee of the "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia." Are today's efforts to prohibit Witnesses lawful? For 26 years, the center has not been held accountable for extremism. "If we have been good all these years, at what point have we become extremists?" If the ban happens, significant harm will be done, and the persecution has already begun. People will be persecuted only for the joint reading of the Bible, and we have already passed. We have already been put on a par with such organizations as the Taliban, Aum Senrique and others. The position of Jehovah's Witnesses is unchanged: obey the authorities, pray for them. Always adhere to the principles of peacefulness.
10:45	Kalin tells the circumstances of the repression of this religion in the USSR, which he remembers himself. He shows the court a certificate of a rehabilitated victim of political repression. He asks what certificate now he wants from the Ministry of Justice and his co-religionists. The actions of the Ministry of Justice throw the country into the past.
10:50	Performs Deputy Kalina, Sergei Cherepanov. He tells us what measures were taken by the center of Jehovah's Witnesses for the prevention of extremism.
10:57	Cherepanov mentions that the center of Jehovah's Witnesses is on the list of the most dangerous organizations. He is not a lawyer, but thinks that the actions of the ministry lead the fight against extremism on a false track. In recent years, 20 criminal cases have been instituted against Jehovah's Witnesses under article "Extremism." Although most cases ended in acquittals, the rights of believers were significantly violated, and their lives were marred.
11:05	Cherepanov mentions cases of throws and falsifications that were reported to law enforcement agencies, but are completely ignored by the police and other bodies. There is no doubt that the center of Jehovah's Witnesses has taken all possible measures to counter extremism. The deputy prosecutor general, who signed a warning a year ago to Jehovah's Witnesses, refused a meeting at which it would be possible to clarify what other measures the supervisory authority could expect from Jehovah's Witnesses.

[Dages]

11:13

They struggle with extremism in the whole civilized world. However, only in Russia for this persecuted Jehovah's Witnesses, whose worship in the world is visited by about 20 million people. To pursue them in Russia is to challenge all those countries where Jehovah's Witnesses freely profess their faith. At this Cherepanov ends his speech and asks to attach the theses of his speech to the case. Full text of the explanation of S.Cherepanov. (PDF, 226 KB)

[New World Explorer]

Just to clarify...

Sergei Cherepanov (Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia)

[JJMS]

Thanks David.

[Bluebell]

11:15 The speech of lawyer Zhenkov. He convincingly proves that, contrary to the Justice Ministry's assertion, among the goals and objectives of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses there is no extremism. If for 100 years unofficially and 26 years of officially existence of Jehovah's Witnesses there was no proven harm from their activities, then what harm does the Ministry of Justice refer to?

[2EVES]

59 minutes ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

 "A large bus is parked at the courthouse on Povarskaya Street, full of obviously bored police officers.  surprising calm, which, despite obvious excitement, is preserved by hundreds of believers, convinces better than any words that extremism is not about them."

Why are they bored? Because there is no protesting or extreme behavior from JW's.  All praises to Jehovah, who not only teaches us how to benefit ourselves, but also how to conduct ourselves when under trials...No pun intended. 

[Bluebell]

our Lawyers are so good...they are fighting not for freedom of a Killer...

they are fighting for Jehovah......

[Beggar for the Spirit]

(from 10:35 to 11:12 )

Layman's Understanding:

 

So during this time it looks like our lawyers sat down and JW representatives began testifying and explaining what has happened over the years, from illegal searches by police to JW members human rights being violated to how the Headquarters has done everything possible to comply with any "extremist" laws.

 

These brothers were also trying to remind the judges that there is an establish "precedence" of legal decisions by explaining how the majority of the past 20 lower court decisions in "extremist" cases against Jehovah's Witnesses were in our favor and we were acquitted of any extremist activity! 

 

This is very important because a Supreme Court must consider the rulings of lower courts and if a precedent is being set by these lower courts, in this situation the precedence is that Jehovah's Witnesses have been found "NOT GUILTY" over and over again, then it is rare that a Supreme Court can change the laws when the lower courts have been unanimously ruling.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Skye]

4 minutes ago, EVE 2015 said:

Why are they bored? Because there is no protesting or extreme behavior from JW's.  All praises to Jehovah, who not only teaches us how to benefit ourselves, but also how to conduct ourselves when under trials...No pun intended. 

The posture tells it all....

[JJMS]

1 minute ago, Samira said:

our Lawyers are so good...they are fighting not for freedom of a Killer...

they are fighting for Jehovah......

I couldnt say better..

[GeordieGirl]

11:20Little wife points out that the vast majority of publications Witnesses were included in FSEM 8 years ago. Over the years there have been no terrorist act or an act of vandalism by Jehovah's Witnesses. Nothing of the sort was before.

11:24Little wife draws attention to the fact that these publications were included in FSEM before the famous Resolution of the Plenum of the Supreme Court, who explained that extremism can not be regarded as criticism of other religions.

11:25Little wife emphasizes that only a few experts found signs of extremism in the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses. unqualified experts often work. Courts hear cases in the absence of the faithful. For example, one of the brochures, which contains almost no text has been recognized as an extremist for the phrase "avoid bad deeds." In response to laughter little wife said that the people who conduct searches because of this brochure, not a laughing matter.

[Dages]

11:20	Zhenkov draws attention to the fact that the vast majority of Witness publications were included in the FSEM  8 years ago. During these years there was not a single terrorist act or act of vandalism on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses. Nothing of the kind happened before.
11:24	Zhenkov draws attention to the fact that all these publications were included in the FSEM before the famous resolution of the plenum of the Supreme Court, which explained that extremism can not be considered criticism of other religions.
11:25	Zhenkov emphasizes that only some experts find signs of extremism in the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses. Often unskilled experts work. Courts consider cases in the absence of believers. For example, one of the brochures, which contains almost no text, was considered extremist for the phrase "Avoid bad deeds." In response to laughter in the room, Zhenkov said that people who are being searched because of this brochure are not to laugh.
11:30	Two other publications have been made to the FSEM, but Jehovah's Witnesses still do not know why, despite many requests and requests. "If so consider printed texts, then Russia can soon be left without books!"

Edited April 7, 2017 by Dages

[Skye]

2 minutes ago, GeordieGirl said:

11:20Little wife 

11:24Little wife 

11:25Little wife 

 

Zhenkov translates to Little wife?

[Cool Cat]

Wow Zhenkov is going for the juggular!

[GeordieGirl]

Just now, Skye said:

Zhenkov translates to Little wife?

LOL. I know but I couldn't remember how to spell his name properly and I knew you all know who it is by now. 

[Luisabola]

Zhenkov is showing that this isn't a laughing matter! It's our brothers and sisters freedom at stake. 

[Dages]

11:35

Zhenkov: It seems that the prosecutor's office is trying by any means to recognize as extremist as possible a large number of materials of Jehovah's Witnesses. For example, the prosecutor's office sued the recognition of the extremist Bible itself, despite a direct reservation in law that the Bible and quotations from it can not be considered extremist. From the prosecution's argument: "Taken as a book, the Bible ceases to be a Bible, which it is only in the Church." (Laughter in the hall.)

 

The prosecution argument is ridiculous

Edited April 7, 2017 by Dages

[jayrtom]

...

Edited April 7, 2017 by jayrtom
Repeated post

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Wow, so sometime within the past 8 years or so, the Supreme Court already passed a resolution stating that, 

"extremism can not be considered criticism of other religions."

 

Yet now this is 1 of the specific claims by the Russian officials - that JWs are "undermining the respect" of other religions and therefore they can legally be considered as "extremists"!  

Our lawyers are Excellent 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[New World Explorer]

11:30	Two other publications included in FSEM, but Jehovah's Witnesses still do not know why, in spite of the numerous appeals and requests. "If so consider printed texts, the Russian can generally be left without books soon!"   LOL ..he is funny.

[Gi-Gi]

Humor takes the edge off....glad he's helping everyone relax...I love him....can't wait to meet him!