DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[hatcheckgirl]

From the Russian legal site Rapsi summarising yesterday's news:

 

http://www.rapsinews.com/judicial_news/20170405/278171927.html

 

MOSCOW, April 5 (RAPSI) – The Supreme Court of Russia has dismissed a counter lawsuit filed by the Jehovah's Witnesses religious organization against the Justice Ministry seeking to declare its actions unlawful and to recognize organization’s members as victims of political repressions, RAPSI reported from the courtroom on Wednesday.

The court ruled that it is ineligible to review this lawsuit because declaring someone a victim of political repressions is responsibility of other organizations.  The court’s representative did not specify which organizations those would be.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Thanks Sister Sandra for the BBC article link. 

 

In this BBC article they actually discussed 1 of the statements in our publications that is viewed as "extremist" by Russian Officials.

"One pamphlet quoted the novelist Leo Tolstoy, describing the doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery, according to BBC correspondent Sarah Rainsford."

 

And this same article said that,

"In 2009 a report commissioned by prosecutors in southern Russia found that they "undermined respect" in other religions."

 

So this intrigued me, I wanted to see this statement in our literature for myself.  I found the statement they were referring to in a FEB 2000 Awake. So what do you think everyone when you read this "extremist" statement below describing the "doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery"? 

 

*** g00 2/22 p. 23 Russians Treasure Freedom of Worship ***

The famous Russian writer Tolstoy made a similar observation. He wrote:

“I convinced myself that the doctrine of the [Russian Orthodox] church was in theory a cunning and harmful deceit, and in practice a collection of the grossest superstitions and sorcery, which completely conceals the whole meaning of the Christian teaching.”

Edited April 6, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Thesauron]

Mark Sanderson, who is a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses and who was present at the hearing, stated: “It is disconcerting that the Supreme Court dismissed or denied most motions filed by the Administrative Center. Representatives of many embassies and human rights organizations were present for this hearing. The world is watching.”

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/russia/hearing-continues-20170405/


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Thesauron]

Thanks Sister Sandra for the BBC article link. 
 
In this BBC article they actually discussed 1 of the statements in our publications that is viewed as "extremist" by Russian Officials.
"One pamphlet quoted the novelist Leo Tolstoy, describing the doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery, according to BBC correspondent Sarah Rainsford."
 
And this same article said that,
"In 2009 a report commissioned by prosecutors in southern Russia found that they "undermined respect" in other religions."
 
So this intrigued me, I wanted to see this statement in our literature for myself.  I found the statement they were referring to in a FEB 2000 Awake. So what do you think everyone when you read this "extremist" statement below describing the "doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery"? 
 
*** g00 2/22 p. 23 Russians Treasure Freedom of Worship ***
The famous Russian writer Tolstoy made a similar observation. He wrote:
“I convinced myself that the doctrine of the [Russian Orthodox] church was in theory a cunning and harmful deceit, and in practice a collection of the grossest superstitions and sorcery, which completely conceals the whole meaning of the Christian teaching.”

These were the feelings of Tolstoy. That said, the Russian Orthodox Church are quickly undermining their own respect. If they want us to quit calling what they teach superstition, they should remove all superstition from their doctrines. That, however, will not happen.


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Stormswift]

Hmm thinking on this ... 20 million Muslims in Russia and only 175,000 Jehovah's Witnesses, we share airtime with big stories, and not all are negative ... Jehovah is creating a world wide witness with only 175,000 people. WOW. Watching Jehovah is like watching a conductor of an orchestra skillfully bringing the right instruments at precisely the right time.

[dove]

8 minutes ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

Thanks Sister Sandra for the BBC article link. 

 

In this BBC article they actually discussed 1 of the statements in our publications that is viewed as "extremist" by Russian Officials.

"One pamphlet quoted the novelist Leo Tolstoy, describing the doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery, according to BBC correspondent Sarah Rainsford."

 

And this same article said that,

"In 2009 a report commissioned by prosecutors in southern Russia found that they "undermined respect" in other religions."

 

So this intrigued me, I wanted to see this statement in our literature for myself.  I found the statement they were referring to in a FEB 2000 Awake. So what do you think everyone when you read this "extremist" statement below describing the "doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery"? 

 

*** g00 2/22 p. 23 Russians Treasure Freedom of Worship ***

The famous Russian writer Tolstoy made a similar observation. He wrote:

“I convinced myself that the doctrine of the [Russian Orthodox] church was in theory a cunning and harmful deceit, and in practice a collection of the grossest superstitions and sorcery, which completely conceals the whole meaning of the Christian teaching.”

 

 Thank You for eking out those thoughts in the article quoting Tolstoy . I thought too, by them drawing attention to our 'pamphlet' they were bringing to attention what their own Russian writer Tolstoy's belief was about  their Russian Orthodox religion.

[Desert Dan]

Here is a bit on Tolstoy who died long ago.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/marchweb-only/3-5-44.0.html

[Tortuga]

Is the Chairman of the Supreme Court that we wrote letters to personally involved with this hearing?

 

The Chairman of the Supreme Court
Viacheslav Mikhailovich Lebedev

[Cool Cat]

5 hours ago, Luis said:

It's very stressful waiting to see what happens, but Jehovah knows what he does and permits.  Surely the world is getting a great witness.  

 

Who knows, this could all lead to a huge boost of new ones who come to know Jehovah out of curiosity for what's happening, or because of indignation at the injustice.  We just don't know.

 

We have also been praying for Jehovah to forgive those in the Russian government who honestly do not know what they do.  Maybe even some of them will have their hearts touched during all of this.

 

I think when everything is said and done, we will look back on this and go "Ah, that's why Jehovah did this or did that!".

 

Expect the unexpected!

Nice points! 

 

When reading the first line of this reply it made me think of the bible reading this week.

 

Jer 17:7 Blessed is the man who puts his trust in Jehovah,Whose confidence is in Jehovah.  8 He will become like a tree planted by the waters,That sends out its roots to the stream. He will not notice when heat comes,But his leaves will always flourish. And in the year of drought he will not be anxious,Nor will he quit producing fruit

 

We do  not need to worry about this court case. All we need to do is trust totally in Jehovah and he will help us not be anxious about the outcome. Whatever happens we know that Jehovah has got this one in the bag. He has something up his spiritual sleeve. I know we all know this I just thought it was a nice point from this weeks bible reading.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

29 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Is the Chairman of the Supreme Court that we wrote letters to personally involved with this hearing?

 

The Chairman of the Supreme Court
Viacheslav Mikhailovich Lebedev

 Hi Richard,

My understanding is that there are over 100 judges on the Russian Supreme Court and that they are assigned to different "panels", like a Military panel or an Appeals panel. So although Lebedev is the Chairman, he might just supervise all of the panels and judges. Or if he also is assigned to certain panels, since there are only 3 judges on a panel, then maybe he is not 1 of the judges in our case?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[retroHelen]

1 hour ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

Thanks Sister Sandra for the BBC article link. 

 

In this BBC article they actually discussed 1 of the statements in our publications that is viewed as "extremist" by Russian Officials.

"One pamphlet quoted the novelist Leo Tolstoy, describing the doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery, according to BBC correspondent Sarah Rainsford."

 

And this same article said that,

"In 2009 a report commissioned by prosecutors in southern Russia found that they "undermined respect" in other religions."

 

So this intrigued me, I wanted to see this statement in our literature for myself.  I found the statement they were referring to in a FEB 2000 Awake. So what do you think everyone when you read this "extremist" statement below describing the "doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery"? 

 

*** g00 2/22 p. 23 Russians Treasure Freedom of Worship ***

The famous Russian writer Tolstoy made a similar observation. He wrote:

“I convinced myself that the doctrine of the [Russian Orthodox] church was in theory a cunning and harmful deceit, and in practice a collection of the grossest superstitions and sorcery, which completely conceals the whole meaning of the Christian teaching.”

 

Great minds think alike. I went to look this article up as well. This is an Awake of 2000. How can they say that this article was setting out to incite hatred and violence like extremists do? The quotation was the opinion of a dead Russian author about the main faith of his country. The article's context was about how many Russian people were lapping up the Truths of the Bible for themselves since the change of circumstances of the Soviet government since 1991, whether they stayed in Russia or were dispersing into other countries that enjoy more freedoms of faith. This was something that for various reasons they were not able to do under the previous regimes religious or secular.

 

In fact, the links between this court case and the actions of the main religion of Russia may hopefully make people consider as to who are real Christians that show love their neighbours.

 

Perhaps the Russian government needs to remind themselves as to why they turned against the main religion of their country at the time of the Revolution. Was having that main religion before that Revolution for centuries bringing them the peace and security, obedience and incorruption expected of Christians? Who was behind the violent pogroms against the Jews over the centuries - was this a Christian action?

 

Considering these questions is not inciting to hatred or violence, it's about allowing everyone the opportunity of informed personal choice and freedoms to choose and respect other's different choice, live a quiet Christian life. Also, to leave any punishments for unwise choices on such matters to the only one who has the authority, not humans, but God the judge of all for his appointed time to do the judging himself.

[New World Explorer]

10 minutes ago, retroHelen said:

*** g00 2/22 p. 23 Russians Treasure Freedom of Worship ***

The famous Russian writer Tolstoy made a similar observation. He wrote:

“I convinced myself that the doctrine of the [Russian Orthodox] church was in theory a cunning and harmful deceit, and in practice a collection of the grossest superstitions and sorcery, which completely conceals the whole meaning of the Christian teaching.”

Interesting...  quoting third party observation is not a crime.

[hatcheckgirl]

12 minutes ago, retroHelen said:

Considering these questions is not inciting to hatred or violence, it's about allowing everyone the opportunity of informed personal choice and freedoms to choose and respect other's different choice, live a quiet Christian life. Also, to leave any punishments for unwise choices on such matters to the only one who has the authority, not humans, but God the judge of all for his appointed time to do the judging himself.

They ex-communicated Tolstoy because he couldn't reconcile their vile superstitious religion with what he understood reading from the Bible.  He was a Count, so could afford to distance himself from society, and his widely read books gave him huge appeal.  The Russian Orthodox church still to this day has him ex-communicated.  They show themselves blatantly as following their father - Satan - and they are acting very similar to how the pharisees in Jesus' day treated anyone who said they followed Jesus - excommunication!

This will have wide ramifications for all to re-examine their allegiance to their church and form of worship - because the RO Church is patriotic, those that take the "safe" side will find that their "broad and spacious" road will lead them to destruction.  

 

Don't know if this article about how other "Christian" religions are dealing with this in Russia has been posted, but they are watching too....

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2017/march/russia-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-evangelicals.html

 

"In Russia, they don’t participate in interfaith efforts among minority groups. Plus, they are promoting a competitive theology in a way many evangelicals disagree with. “Protestants consider the evangelistic activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses to be excessively intrusive and aggressive,” said Michael Cherenkov, the Ukraine-based executive field director for Mission Eurasia."

[Raven]

6 hours ago, ChrisTheConfused said:

BBC video. Shows the police planting evidence. 

 

Is Russia clamping down on Jehovah Witnesses?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39508555

I hope the whole world gets to see how they planted evidence. Clear sign of desperation for them to do that!

[Raven]

5 hours ago, Adelin said:

interesting ...

Russian Baptists support Jehovah's Witnesses

 

Now there's a change...They've never wanted to support us before. They must only be doing because they are worried that they are next.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Bjern

[Friends just call me Ross]

2 hours ago, Desert Dan said:

Here is a bit on Tolstoy who died long ago.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/marchweb-only/3-5-44.0.html

In the "Favorite Short Stories", I mentioned Mr. Tolstoy's short story 'The Three Questions' and now, here he is being mentioned in this thread.  Humph.

The three answers to his three questions, along with what he said about the Russian Orthodox Church, tell me that Mister Tolstoy is going to make a wonderful brother...someday soon...very very soon.

[Friends just call me Ross]

1 minute ago, Friends just call me Ross said:

In the "Favorite Short Stories", I mentioned Mr. Tolstoy's short story 'The Three Questions' and now, here he is being mentioned in this thread.  Humph.

The three answers to his three questions, along with what he said about the Russian Orthodox Church, tell me that Mister Tolstoy is going to make a wonderful brother...someday soon...very very soon.

Spoiler Alert for anyone who hasn't read "The Three Questions":

Spoiler

[Cool Cat]

As far as I can see, today is the last day of the scheduled court hearing. That is of course unless there is an extension to proceedings. 

 

Scheduled court proceedings in the Supreme Court.

 

A pretty important day then! 

 

I am looking forward to seeing Jehovah's hand in matters.

[Tbs77]

I need some sleep! midnight, 4:00 AM, midnight... I got jet lag!

[GeordieGirl]

6 hours ago, Adelin said:

interesting ...

Russian Baptists support Jehovah's Witnesses

I don't think the motive for this letter is altruistic. I think it was written because, while the focus is on us, the Russian government is not looking at other religious groups and denominations. However, all other religious groups in Russia know that whatever the outcome for us, it will ultimately extend to them, because Russia is clamping down on all religions/denominations except for the Russian Orthodox.  

[GeordieGirl]

1 hour ago, hatcheckgirl said:

They ex-communicated Tolstoy

When I read that article, what went through my mind was that they are allowed to do this, but, according to them, we are not allowed to 'ex-communicate' wrong-doers from our congregations!!!!

[vern]

only thing i see popping up is the ban in a city was upheld....?

[Tortuga]

56 minutes ago, MentalProject said:

As far as I can see, today is the last day of the scheduled court hearing. That is of course unless there is an extension to proceedings. 

 

Scheduled court proceedings in the Supreme Court.

 

A pretty important day then! 

 

I am looking forward to seeing Jehovah's hand in matters.

Is Hall 4038 scheduled for only 30 minutes? 

[MizPeg]

Might be that the Russian Orthodox religion is first in BTG's demise?

I realize the tribulation hasn't reached its fullness, but who is there to say we  know every step?

That religion must have a big influence, as these Russians were raised with some knowledge of a ,

God figure, Thanx to the Babuskas!

 

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by MizPeg

[Cool Cat]

46 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Is Hall 4038 scheduled for only 30 minutes? 

What do you mean? The next case in hall 4038 is on Monday 10th April. 

 

 

AKPI17-238 
04/07/17 
10am 
Hall №4038The applicant (plaintiff / administrative plaintiff): Ministry of Justice of Russia. Defendant / administrative respondent: Religious organization "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia". 
BY APPLICATION (ISKU): on the recognition of the Religious Organization "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia" as an extremist, prohibition of activity, on liquidation. The entrance to the building of the Court for the court session will be from 9 pm through the 3rd entrance, hall No. 3078. 

 

AKPI17-91 
10.04.17 
10:30 
Hall №4038The applicant (plaintiff / administrative plaintiff): Petrenko Vladimir Andreevich. Defendant / administrative respondent: Ministry of Transport of Russia. Representative: Albert Akhayevich Khaleyan. 
BY APPLICATION (ISKU): on the recognition as invalid of the Rules for the transport of passengers, luggage, freight luggage by rail,Order of the Ministry of Transport of Russia of December 19, 2013 No. 473