DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[Stormswift]

Dont think you guys aren't appreciated - you are! Just busy this end conveying it all. So thank youuuuu!

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Sister Dina was kind enough to post a translated link from 1 of the best human rights organizations in Russia.

In their article, notice something very interesting that they quote. They actually found 1 of the quotes from our publications that are considered "extremist" and they quote why 1 expert considers this statement in our WT an extremist viewpoint:

 

 (Watchtower, May 1999).                                                                                                                                     "False religions, including the Christian world, have long supported unauthorized relations with the" kings of the earth, "but this will lead to the ruin of a false religion. [...] For more than a decade, we have been calling on people to withdraw from a false religion And accept true worship (Revelation 18: 4, 5) 

The conclusion of the expert, which is the basis of the judicial decision: "A negative image of traditional Christianity has been created, the idea of the necessity to distance itself from this religion as well as other religions that differ from the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses is formulated.Therefore, the text contains propaganda of the superiority of the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses and the inferiority of other religions ".

[DinaG.]

36 minutes ago, Samira said:

10:50     Omelchenko analyzes the legality of actions of the Ministry of Justice. By applicable law, Jehovah's Witnesses are recognized as victims of political repression. At the Ministry of Justice (among other institutions) the law imposed a duty to promote the rehabilitation of the faithful. However Justice moves in the opposite direction. Omelchenko lists domestic and international calls for Russia to stop politically motivated persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses, the misuse of anti-extremist legislation as applied to Jehovah's Witnesses. It is, for example, on the signing of the most well-known Russian human rights activists appeal "Repressive again being harassed", on the open letter of the Moscow Helsinki Group, as well as appeals from various structures in Europe, the Organization for Security and Co-operation, the United Nations and others. international standards on the prevention of repression, require to pay close attention to the signals coming from the human rights community. The Ministry of Justice is ignoring all the signals, continues to act as a repressive body

the open letter of the Moscow Helsinki Group - http://www.mhg.ru/news/136F85AE, in English https://translate.google.ru/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mhg.ru%2Fnews%2F136F85AE

[Bluebell]

11:12      

Lawyer Zhenkov asks for an opportunity to give an explanation on the court's decision, which the Justice Ministry presented to the court a few days ago as "an example of violation of the rights of citizens by a religious organization" (a patient who chose medicament treatment from two alternatives instead of transfusion of donor blood). The lawyer, first, is puzzled over why the Ministry of Justice did not explain where they got the document containing the medical secret. Secondly, Zhenkov said that in the event of a refusal from the transfusion, it is not only not about violating anyone's rights, but, conversely, that the citizen was ensured the right - the right to voluntary informed treatment. If a patient were refused treatment only on religious grounds, this would be a violation of rights. Women read out excerpts from the Order of the Ministry of Health regarding the dangers of transfusion of blood components, as well as the need to receive in advance from the patient a written consent for carrying out this operation. Zhenkov notes that there is no reservation in the Order, that representatives of some religions are allowed to use the right to informed consent, and others are not allowed.

[sand]

From Anton Chivchalov facebook page :

The Memorial was OK almost everywhere in Russia. Only in one city (Snezhinsk) police interrupted the meeting to record passport data, but nothing too serious. So it was a great achievement itself that the hearings were postponed after the Memorial.

[Paradise-Lover]

29 minutes ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

(Layman's translation)

Our lawyers:

"Phones calls are coming in from all over Russia and even coming in internationally from major human rights organizations that are pleading for a stop to this wrongful persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses. This persecution is seen as not having good motives, but is political! The world is sending the Ministry of Justice signals saying that there is a terrible mistake of labeling Jehovah's Witnesses as extremists. The Ministry of Justice is ignoring all of these signals, phone calls, etc, and is just determined to persecute this innocent group of people"

 

 

Bro, how nice it'll be if you can compile the entire proceedings in this Layman's Translation and make a PDF format of it for easy download. I am really enjoying it.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Thanks Sister Thelier. That is great news! 

[sunshine]

BRAVO brothers!

 

They are rightly using the coverage of this case to defend our right to choose are medical treatment at the same time, stamping on the LIE that came up earlier that we refuse all medical treatment. That the Russian public knows! Genius.

[New World Explorer]

8 minutes ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

have long supported unauthorized relations with the" kings of the earth,

Putin does not like this bit  I wonder why ?

Perhaps for that bit ... but this will lead to the ruin of a false religion.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Thank you Brother Chuks, but this is being done by even someone better.

If you go back a few more posts, you will see that Sister Rosie did an excellent job of doing what you said, she compiled all of them together and gave an excellent simplified translation. We are paying Sister Rosie a lot of money, so we hope she will continue with her expert translation! 

[Paradise-Lover]

6 minutes ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

Thank you Brother Chuks, but this is being done by even someone better.

If you go back a few more posts, you will see that Sister Rosie did an excellent job of doing what you said, she compiled all of them together and gave an excellent simplified translation. We are paying Sister Rosie a lot of money, so we hope she will continue with her expert translation! 

Good to know that Sister Rosie belongs to the category of "fat cats". Just kidding.

[sunshine]

Chuks, your post made me laugh, but seriously its good to get serveral different breakdowns as this catches things I've missed. Also the language isnt always easy to understand and I may well have gotten something wrong.  I will be willing to share some of my enormous commission with Brother Neil. He may also get the keys to the company car I have been given...

 

(ps:  I am NOT translating (google is) I'm only simplifying the translation)

Edited April 12, 2017 by sunshine

[Beggar for the Spirit]

In the open letter from the Moscow Helsinki Group that Sister Dina posted for us, a basic translation of a portion of it says:

Quote

" Today, members of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, in which the older generation have rehabilitated certificates from their persecution by Hitler's Germany and the former Soviet USSR, are now being repressed again. But now instead of Jehovah's Witnesses being called "anti-Soviet" or a "fanatical anti-Soviet sect", today's Russian authorities are simply replacing these terms with a new modern label -  "extremist".

 

[Bluebell]

11:30

The judge begins to ask questions to the representatives of the defendant. First question: does the JCS give Jehovah's Witnesses an interpretation of the Bible to local organizations? Answer: no, the interpretation of the sacred texts is provided by the Governing Council of Jehovah's Witnesses (international leadership). A new question: in what sense does the UC ensure the "coordination of activities" of the LROs (according to the Charter). Answer: LROs are independent legal entities, but the UC provides them with recommendations. For example, if there is a question of building a liturgical building, the UC may, with reference to the Bible, recommend the construction of a modest, unimproved building. However, the final decision on what will be the new building, takes the MPO. The next issue of the court: whether the UC approved the statutes of the 8 MROs that were liquidated by the decisions of the courts. The representative of Topors explains to the court that the founders of the new LROs apply to the CA with a request to enter the UC structure in order to speed up the registration procedure. In this case, the UC unconditionally agrees their statutes to make sure that the founders are Jehovah's Witnesses and that their objectives coincide with the creed of Jehovah's Witnesses. The court is interested in the question of whether the UC is the founder of non-commercial, public organizations or an MPO, as in the Charter such an opportunity is prescribed. Lawyers explain to the court that the possibility in the Charter is prescribed "just in case", however it was not realized. The founders of all LROs were local citizens. For example, the statute also provides for the possibility to import literature,  but this possibility is also not realized due to objective circumstances.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

How wise that years ago the Governing Body decided that in Russia(and possibly other countries) the local congregations are "legally" separate and independent from the Branch or Headquarters. This way the government cannot just lump together all of the congregations in Russia into 1 easy lawsuit. The government has to file suit against each congregation. Such wisdom years ago is going to help greatly today!

 

"The shrewd one sees the danger and conceals himself"

(Proverbs 22:3)  

Edited April 12, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Paradise-Lover]

13 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Chuks, your post made me laugh, but seriously its good to get serveral different breakdowns as this catches things I've missed. Also the language isnt always easy to understand and I may well have gotten something wrong.  I will be willing to share some of my enormous commission with Brother Neil. He may also get the keys to the company car I have been given...

 

(ps:  I am NOT translating (google is) I'm only simplifying the translation)

 

In the midst of the serious case at hand, isn't it lovely to see that we can still maintain our healthy sense of humour, which is a hallmark of Jehovah's people!

[sunshine]

11"30   Can anybody tell me what a TC is? I'm thinking its something to do with registered charities...

[Beggar for the Spirit]

FYI

We just sent Sister Rosie $1000 in "Bitcoins" for her translation services.

So now she is putting together another professional summary of today's proceedings.

And the only reason I was given the keys to the company car is because I was assigned as Sister Rosie's chauffeur.  

[Cool Cat]

Trying to work out what a JCS and a UC is. 

[Bluebell]

2 minutes ago, MentalProject said:

Trying to work out what a JCS and a UC is. 

Administrative Center (UC) of Jehovah's Witnesses

[Beggar for the Spirit]

I think the UC is referring to the Administrative Center or the Headquarters or in our theocratic language

- "The Russian Branch"

Edited April 12, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Bluebell]

7 minutes ago, sunshine said:

11"30   Can anybody tell me what a TC is? I'm thinking its something to do with registered charities...

the TC founder of non-profit, non-governmental organizations, or LRO

TC=LRO ???

[Beggar for the Spirit]

I don't see TC anywhere Sister Samira, where are you seeing TC? Sorry I must have missed it

[Bluebell]

12:05

The court is interested in the question whether the chairmen of the LROs are members of the steering committee of the JRC. Kalin explains that MPO members are never part of the steering committee of the CA.

Are there decisions of the CA that are mandatory for the LROs? Kalin explains that when the LROs ask for financial assistance from the CA (in the form of donations), the center is interested in the question of how the funds are spent. For example, the UC provides a project for a modest liturgical building, and the LROs coordinate this project with local authorities. Or if a natural disaster occurs, the UC donates funds to help believers and collaborates with the LROs to help the injured Jehovah's Witnesses, as well as their relatives.

The court asks whether the money spent on printing products was spent? Defendants explain that no.

The court: Did the UT import literature that was later recognized as extremist? Defendants explain that the function of the CA is purely logistic: an order from individuals is collected directly by a foreign publisher, and it also sends them literature. The UC does not "distribute" literature.

Court: One of the books was imported into Russia shortly before it was recognized as extremist, but when it was distributed among believers? Attorneys pay attention to the letter in the materials of the case, in which the CA immediately informs about the inclusion of this book in the FSEM and requests that it no longer be used. Naturally, after this, the UT could not distribute this book.

Court: What is the fate of printing products, which is considered extremist? Is it taken away from the believers? Destroyed? Lawyers explain that the UC can not dictate to believers what to do with the literature that is in their possession. However, he can pay attention to the provisions of the law, and does so

[sunshine]

1 minute ago, Samira said:

the TC founder of non-profit, non-governmental organizations, or LRO

TC=LRO ???

 

 

so the  "founder" of the congregation ??  ie original board members of the association?