Brothers In USA, please confirm - marriage custom

[TRUTH04]

We have this brother that had lived in USA for quite a long time (at least that is what he told us). His stories about life in USA has been common when we preach, have a break and chat together. He is not a young man. He has family we believe lives in US. His daughter we are told is a lawyer there.

 

He keep telling us this stories about family life in USA and how it differs from what we have here, so I got curious. So I want to confirm whether this is what happens over there in USA.

 

One of his stories was that wedding doesn't take long there. You see a brother and sister who fell in love, they go to court to register. At times within a month of knowing each other. That wedding there is simple and cost less compared to what happens in Nigeria.

 

He maintained that family there seem to assign much right to the women than men. The man takes care of the dishes, irons cloths, do fixing in the house and don't dare insult the wife, as that could end him up in police custody. (Not that insult is a good thing, but police custody?). That on no condition can you shout at your kids, let alone slap or spank them.

 

He posited that when the man earns his salary, he submits to the wife, and the wife handles family, gives the husband an allowance, even buys cloths shoes for the husband. So the man can't touch his salary. The wife states how it is used. He didn't say it was a family arrangement, but that that is the custom. That if a man refuses to hand over his salary, handle dishes, wash cloths (he stated that must have washing machine) etc he can even be deleted if an elder or ministerial servant.

 

He went on to state that it is only here we here of bride price. In USA, nothing like that.

 

We ve heard a lot from him, I want to know more and a confirmation of what he has already told us.

 

 

 

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[Qapla]

WOW! That is a lot of claims.....

 

First off, I will confirm that there is no "Bride Price" in the US.

 

As for the rest, where do I start?

 

If a Brother is not the head of his house he would not qualify for appointment - so, NO, he does not abdicate this to his wife.

 

Now, as far as handing his salary over to his wife, I cannot speak for all husbands. I do not do that, never have. There are many men who let their wives handle the money - that is their decision, not a "custom" or requirement.

 

I know very few men who do the dishes, laundry, shopping, etc.

 

As far as children go, due to the society here in the US, you can be arrested if you slap or spank you children - it is called "child abuse". You can shout at them all you want, as long as you do not cause a disturbance or shout so loud as to bother your neighbors. This is not because you are shouting at your children, it is just because you are being too loud - but, this is rare.

 

How long it takes to get married is mostly up to the couple. Yes a marriage license has to be obtained from the local authorities. If desired, you can have a judge or other legal representative do a simple ceremony that only takes a few minutes. Most JWs have a service in the Hall because an Elder is given the legal authority to preside over a wedding. As to the cost of the wedding, that is also up to the couple and their families. Some cost very little - others spend way too much.

 

There is no length of time required between when a couple meet and when they get married. There are some rather short "courtships".

 

Personally, I "courted" my wife for about two years. We also kept the cost of the wedding quite low. Many friends pitched in and helped us plan and assisted on the wedding day. That help was greatly appreciated.

 

Since I do not know what comprises a wedding in Nigeria, I cannot say if a US courtship and/or wedding is longer/shorter or "simpler" than how it is done in Nigeria.

 

I have never seen a man/husband "in Police custody" for insulting his wife - men do it all the time, especially worldy men.

 

Hope this helps

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, TRUTH04 said:

If an elder refuses to hand over his salary, handle dishes, wash cloths (he stated that must have washing machine) etc he can even be deleted from serving.

 

Please tell me you didn't actually believe this story?

[carlos]

Probably that brother met a family or two that did things that way and thought everybody does.

 

I don't live in the US but I have visited friends there several times. I can say for certain that there is no bride price in the US or in Europe. Also, although it's legally possible to meet someone and get married the next day if you wish, that is by no means the norm  among people in general and much less among Christians. Most couples I know had a courtship of between one and two years.

 

A wedding can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it. You can get married by an elder at the hall and it won't cost you a dollar. It's common to have a wedding reception with a limited number of guests. Of course there are couples who give huge banquets with many hundreds of guests and expensive food and clothes and fireworks and get to the banquet hall in a carriage drawn by horses... But that is not common nor recommended.

[Qapla]

2 minutes ago, carlos said:

You can get married by an elder at the hall and it won't cost you a dollar.

 

This is not entirely accurate. While the Elder and the Congregation will not charge any fee - the actual marriage license issued by the City/County/State does have a fee.

 

So, simply getting married at the Hall by an Elder does not mean "it won't cost you a dollar". You still have to pay for the legal paperwork done by the State.

[Brandon]

What really disturbs me though is that apparently he's telling others there that 'in the US, elders can be removed for not doing dishes.'

 

This would be unscriptural and could stumble those who hear such a lie.

 

Why would the requirements for being an elder be different here than in Nigeria or anywhere else?

 

Please, @TRUTH04, next time you hear something that is clearly impossible to be reckoned against our basic beliefs, counter their points. You don't need to have our testimony that such a notion is false just to reason that it must be false since it is completely unscriptural.

 

The naive person believes every word, but the shrewd one ponders each step.--Proverbs 14:15

Edited October 9, 2017 by Brandon

[TRUTH04]

 
Please tell me you didn't actually believe this story?

No. That's why I came here since I hv friends from US. Who will ever easily believe that as if what we read in our pub isn't true again.

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[Life4u]

If a Bro's. wife is sick or unable to do the house work, some out of the kindness of their hearts do the dishes, cooking, laundry, and other household needs. Never been a required so as to be df.  Some do the cooking in the family too, also not required but they prefer to. Also, if both husband and wife works outside the home they share all of the household needs just because. I know of some personally,  it's not required but it's loving, kind and good, all fruits of the holy spirit which there is no law against. 

[Thesauron]

1 hour ago, Life4u said:

If a Bro's. wife is sick or unable to do the house work, some out of the kindness of their hearts do the dishes, cooking, laundry, and other household needs. Never been a required so as to be df.  Some do the cooking in the family too, also not required but they prefer to. Also, if both husband and wife works outside the home they share all of the household needs just because. I know of some personally,  it's not required but it's loving, kind and good, all fruits of the holy spirit which there is no law against. 

Or if they feel a need to split that work. The brother may be a better cook. Or, like my parents, my mum cooked ‘cause dad was awful at it, but he always did the dishes-always. The cleaning they shared quite equally.

[pnutts]

1 hour ago, Life4u said:

If a Bro's. wife is sick or unable to do the house work, some out of the kindness of their hearts do the dishes, cooking, laundry, and other household needs

That's me. Chief cook and bottle washer. I cheat though. We have an automatic dishwasher.

[redvet]

Jehovah's witnesses apply bible counsel in all walks of life, husbands will always be the head and take the lead in the family arrangement, husbands do help their wives and vice versa but this is what marriage mates do, talk to someone who's been married awhile or been in the truth for awhile if you want the truth or just read your bible regarding husbands, wives and children, and yes, you can yell and even spank your child but you can't abuse them.

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[Old]

2 hours ago, pnutts said:

That's me. Chief cook and bottle washer. I cheat though. We have an automatic dishwasher.

A gift from the wife I presume?  

[Skyler]

He maintained that family there seem to assign much right to the women than men. The man takes care of the dishes, irons cloths, do fixing in the house and don't dare insult the wife, as that could end him up in police custody. (Not that insult is a good thing, but police custody?). That on no condition can you shout at your kids, let alone slap or spank them.
 
He posited that when the man earns his salary, he submits to the wife, and the wife handles family, gives the husband an allowance, even buys cloths shoes for the husband. So the man can't touch his salary. The wife states how it is used. He didn't say it was a family arrangement, but that that is the custom. That if a man refuses to hand over his salary, handle dishes, wash cloths (he stated that must have washing machine) etc he can even be deleted if an elder or ministerial servant.

This brother should be careful of spreading misinformation, especially within the organization. I'm from the US, and it sounds like he's cherry picking certain aspects of singular family situations, and lumping us into one category.

People who exaggerate about small things tend to do the same about important testimonies. I'm not about to judge him, but I wouldn't trust him with any sensitive information.

[Fiona]

I'm guessing he is highlighting the weird married or extremes that he has seen. And the ones he is telling assume it's the norm.
I have seen some sisters "rule" the brothers but it always causes problems and it's not normal. Most of what you said has a ring of truth but the details seem all wrong. O would take all he says with a very large grain of salt.

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[harmania]

Do jws in africa must pay bride price? Or is it something worldly people do there?

[Shawnster]

12 minutes ago, harmania said:

Do jws in africa must pay bride price? Or is it something worldly people do there?

 

It can be a custom among Witnesses

 

*** w98 9/15 pp. 26-27 Negotiating a Reasonable Bride-Price ***
Examples of Reasonableness
When it comes to marriage negotiations, many Christian parents have set a fine example of reasonableness. Consider the case of Joseph and his wife, Mae, who serve as full-time evangelizers. They live on one of the Solomon Islands where bride-price negotiations are sometimes a problem. To avoid such difficulties, Joseph and Mae arranged for their daughter Helen to get married on a neighboring island. They did the same for another daughter, Esther. Joseph also agreed that his son-in-law Peter pay a bride-price well below what could reasonably be accepted. Asked why he did this, Joseph explained: “I did not want to make a burden for my son-in-law who is a pioneer.”

Many of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Africa have also set a fine example of reasonableness. In some areas, members of the extended family generally expect to be paid a large amount of money in advance of negotiations about the actual bride-price. And in order to secure a bride, the bridegroom may be expected to promise that he will cover the future bride-price for a younger brother of his fiancée.

In contrast, consider the example of Kossi and his wife, Mara. Their daughter, Beboko, recently married a traveling overseer of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Before the marriage, relatives put great pressure on the parents for their share of a large bride-price. However, the couple stood firm and did not comply with such demands. Instead, they negotiated directly with their future son-in-law, requesting a minimum for their daughter and then returning half of it to the couple for use in preparing for their wedding day.

Another example in the same country involves a young Witness named Itongo. At first, her family requested a reasonable bride-price. But relatives demanded that the amount be increased. The atmosphere was tense, and it seemed that these relatives might get their way. Though timid by nature, Itongo stood up and respectfully stated that she was determined to marry a zealous Christian named Sanze, according to what had been arranged. Then she courageously said, “Mbi ke” (meaning, “The matter is settled”) and sat down. She was supported by her Christian mother, Sambeko. There was no further discussion, and the couple got married as originally planned.

There are things that concern loving Christian parents much more than the personal benefit of a bride-price. A husband in Cameroon explains: “My mother-in-law seizes every opportunity to tell me that whatever I wanted to give her as a bride-price, I should use to care for the needs of her daughter.” Loving parents are also concerned about the spiritual welfare of their children. For instance, consider Farai and Rudo, who live in Zimbabwe and spend much time in the work of preaching the good news of God’s Kingdom. Though not wage earners, they gave their two daughters away in marriage for a fraction of the price often asked. Their reason? They wanted their daughters to benefit from marriage to men who truly love Jehovah. “What we regarded as more important was the spirituality of both our daughters and our sons-in-law,” they explained. How refreshing! In-laws who show loving concern for the spiritual and material well-being of their married children are to be highly commended.
 

 

[Shawnster]

12 hours ago, TRUTH04 said:

One of his stories was that wedding doesn't take long there. You see a brother and sister who fell in love, they go to court to register. At times within a month of knowing each other. That wedding there is simple and cost less compared to what happens in Nigeria.

 

The wedding ceremony itself is about half an hour in length.  Length of courtship will vary from couple to couple.  I've known some couples to marry after only a few months.  I dated my wife for about a year before we married.  

 

As stated above, there is no cost to use the Kingdom Hall and no elders are paid.  If the couple wishes to make a voluntary contribution, that is their personal decision.  The marriage license does cost, but it is relatively cheap. The cost of the flowers, wedding dress, tuxedo for the groom, cost of reception, etc...will vary from person to person.  We are cautioned repeatedly here to not go all out on lavish displays and such.

 

12 hours ago, TRUTH04 said:

 

He maintained that family there seem to assign much right to the women than men. The man takes care of the dishes, irons cloths, do fixing in the house and don't dare insult the wife, as that could end him up in police custody. (Not that insult is a good thing, but police custody?). That on no condition can you shout at your kids, let alone slap or spank them.

 

He posited that when the man earns his salary, he submits to the wife, and the wife handles family, gives the husband an allowance, even buys cloths shoes for the husband. So the man can't touch his salary. The wife states how it is used. He didn't say it was a family arrangement, but that that is the custom. That if a man refuses to hand over his salary, handle dishes, wash cloths (he stated that must have washing machine) etc he can even be deleted if an elder or ministerial servant.

 

 

This varies from person to person.  As stated above, no, it is not a disqualification of an elder if he does not do what you stated above.  Qualifications for elders are clearly listed in the Bible.  Only not meeting those scriptural qualifications can result in removing an elder from his assignment.

 

Domestic chores such as cooking, cleaning, etc... are up to each couple to decide for themselves.  I do most of the cooking and cleaning as my wife works full time and I do not.  It is not a cultural taboo for a man to do the housework in the United States.  From a worldly standpoint more and more men are doing these domestic chores.

 

Spanking children is a touchy subject, as noted above.  More and more locations are viewing any physical correction of a child as child abuse.  It's to the point that, no, it is not a good idea to spank your child in public where others can see.

 

12 hours ago, TRUTH04 said:

 

He went on to state that it is only here we here of bride price. In USA, nothing like that.

 

No.  It is not the custom in the United States for a bride price.  Only people who have moved to the United States from another land would have such a custom.

[Pjdriver]

12 hours ago, TRUTH04 said:

 

We have this brother that had lived in USA for quite a long time (at least that is what he told us). His stories about life in USA has been common when we preach, have a break and chat together. He is not a young man. He has family we believe lives in US. His daughter we are told is a lawyer there.

 

He keep telling us this stories about family life in USA and how it differs from what we have here, so I got curious. So I want to confirm whether this is what happens over there in USA.

 

One of his stories was that wedding doesn't take long there. You see a brother and sister who fell in love, they go to court to register. At times within a month of knowing each other. That wedding there is simple and cost less compared to what happens in Nigeria.

 

He maintained that family there seem to assign much right to the women than men. The man takes care of the dishes, irons cloths, do fixing in the house and don't dare insult the wife, as that could end him up in police custody. (Not that insult is a good thing, but police custody?). That on no condition can you shout at your kids, let alone slap or spank them.

 

He posited that when the man earns his salary, he submits to the wife, and the wife handles family, gives the husband an allowance, even buys cloths shoes for the husband. So the man can't touch his salary. The wife states how it is used. He didn't say it was a family arrangement, but that that is the custom. That if a man refuses to hand over his salary, handle dishes, wash cloths (he stated that must have washing machine) etc he can even be deleted if an elder or ministerial servant.

 

He went on to state that it is only here we here of bride price. In USA, nothing like that.

 

We ve heard a lot from him, I want to know more and a confirmation of what he has already told us.

 

 

 

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Chigozie

this brother is telling  you some things that are not true at all and other things that are worse case scenarios, not the norm.

[Luezette]

Wow! It seems to me that most of the items on the list of how we do things in the USA, is totally ridiculous and/or simply up to the couple.

First, the elder situation. Jehovah has already let it be known the requirements of an elder, and guess what? Dish duty isn't one of them!

Second, the abuse. It's true that USA authorities don't take abuse lightly, not at all and I'm dead serious. As a matter of fact, they have a whole police bureau on domestic violence. But yelling ain't one of them. 

Third, the husband's salary. Wow! I mean that one is really up to the couple, where it's really no one's business, so I don't see how this brother could even share that. 

Finally, the length of courtship. Again, up to the brother and sister as was already mentioned. Actually, though I doubt if any spiritual brother and sister will meet, court, and marry so soon. Why? Because though we're free moral agents, Jehovah through the slave frowns on such quick relationships especially via the Young People Ask books, etc. 

Did I miss or leave anything out? Probably so. But I think this, coupled with the friend's comments above, is sufficient, unless others want to add more.

Oh! Except one more thing. Please, PLEASE be careful about what and who you listen to, and that includes, unfortunately, just a few of us. Also, as far as courtship and marriage customs are concerned, you have every right, citizen or non citizen of any country, to look up and or call the authorities of said country. That's one thing about the Internet...yours for the checking things out at any time.

Oh and the children. There are organizations here whose sole purpose is to protect the children. And, let me tell you...they're dead serious in their work. But we have nothing serious to worry about do we? No. Because we raise our children the way Jehovah raised us (and is still raising us and always will, lol). Through love, patience, example. 

Agape. 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Luezette

[Shawnster]

48 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

Chigozie

this brother is telling  you some things that are not true at all and other things that are worse case scenarios, not the norm.

 

You may also wish to confirm if the brother is being serious or joking.  

[Shawnster]

24 minutes ago, Luezette said:

Actually, though I doubt if any spiritual brother and sister will meet, court, and marry so soon. Why? Because though we're free moral agents, Jehovah through the slave frowns on such quick relationships especially via the Young People Ask books, etc. 

 

Don't be so quick to judge.  It might be quite possible for two very spiritual people to meet, court and marry in a short period of time.  Sometimes older ones who may have been married previously will meet, court and marry quicker than younger ones.  

 

The Slave has never dictated an acceptable length of time for courtship.  

[Old]

How about 7 days? Worked for a couple here, both had unsuccessful marriages in the past. I think they know they have to work harder on their marriage than they did previously. The husband qualified as an ms two years later, something he had not accomplished in his previous 30 years. 

[Luezette]

36 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

Don't be so quick to judge.  It might be quite possible for two very spiritual people to meet, court and marry in a short period of time.  Sometimes older ones who may have been married previously will meet, court and marry quicker than younger ones.  

 

The Slave has never dictated an acceptable length of time for courtship.  

You're right. Evidently I took that stance because of what the slave recommends about getting to know the person well. I mean, those exact words aren't mentioned true. 

Thank you. 

[TRUTH04]

Jehovah's witnesses apply bible counsel in all walks of life, husbands will always be the head and take the lead in the family arrangement, husbands do help their wives and vice versa but this is what marriage mates do, talk to someone who's been married awhile or been in the truth for awhile if you want the truth or just read your bible regarding husbands, wives and children, and yes, you can yell and even spank your child but you can't abuse them.

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OK, it appears some people say you can't even spank. I mean is spanking viewed generally as child abuse in US?

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[TRUTH04]

I'm guessing he is highlighting the weird married or extremes that he has seen. And the ones he is telling assume it's the norm.
I have seen some sisters "rule" the brothers but it always causes problems and it's not normal. Most of what you said has a ring of truth but the details seem all wrong. O would take all he says with a very large grain of salt.

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No he speaks it as the norm. Many of us that listen to it has began to make judgment and view westerners that way - as being unfair to men. He tops it up by stating that your privilege could be taken away if you refuse to hand the dollar and do dishes. He may be exaggerating the whole issue, but he speaks with certainty. Many of us haven't been there, so we don't know. Again, he is a respected brother.

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