"YES to gay marriage wins in Australia"

[4th Generation]

The voluntary vote for YES or NO to gay marriage in Australia has been counted. It’s a big YES.  

 

How do we protect our children from all of this. It’s everywhere now and is made to be so normal. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Shawnster

[GeordieGirl]

Makes me feel sick. None of my non-witness family members voted though they should have done as they would all have voted no.  However, it would be a waste of time .... it was always going to be yes - it's satan's world!!!  I worry for my brothers and sisters who have little ones going through the school system and for my grandchildren some of whom are still at school.  

[Rocco]

2 peter 2:7 - he was ‘greatly (as am I) distressed’ by the brazen conduct *(shameful conduct). Lawless people. (8) the lawless deeds that he saw and heard while dwelling amoung them. Its very difficult indeed! We are surrounded just like Lot, I always wonder what’s next?? What will be the next socially acceptable norm for society. Im reassured by the rescue, A rescue happened then, and we are awaiting one soon (very soon). 

[Omoyeme]

3 hours ago, GeordieGirl said:

[...] it was always going to be yes - it's satan's world!!!

 

On that, you will not get any disagreement on Terri.  Here's a list of 25+ countries where legalization has taken place; and it continues to grow.

 

That said, I'm grateful that Jehovah continues to give us His light of Truth.

Quote

Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good, those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness, those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!--Isaiah 5:20.

 

 

[skipdaflip]

Gay marriage is one. But I'm worried about the transgender part. Satan make everyone believe that it's normal and up to you which gender you like to become. 

That it is has nothing to do with birth. 

My wife came back from buying post cards and was shocked, cause there were birthcards cards like: seen as a boy, or seen as a girl on it.

 

This step is even worse then in lots day. We will not judge anyone personally. But will hate what Jehovah hates. But at school they teach now that it is not wrong to have those feelings and that we must be happy we came this far in this world that it is possible to change your body that fits your needs. 

Teachers are struggling with this issue, but they're also scared to hurt a child that could be in a wrong body. 

 

I'm really scared for what the result will be in the near future. But in the end days it will be even worse... so I think it can get worse.

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by skipdaflip

[hatcheckgirl]

It's ok, let them have their day.  You know it would've been worse had they lost the vote, and the NO won instead.  They would cry "discrimination!" and "conspiracy".  This way, they get it out of their system, and the harvest of the weeds are good to go.

 

Therefore, God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts (the Yes vote), gave them up to uncleanness, so that their bodies might be dishonored among them. Rom 1:24

 

[Stavro]

In many countries, legal marriage is distinct from religious marriage. Sometimes the legal ceremony is performed immediately after the religious ceremony, in front of the same audience (as it is in our wedding talk outline), or sometimes the legal wedding may be performed in private sometime after the religious ceremony.

 

Religious marriage is defined by the terms of any given religion, and the legal system cannot change those definitions, nor compel any church to perform a religious ceremony for ones who otherwise would not be allowed to do so. There are sometimes legal complaints when an individual/church performs weddings as a business for the general public, but these issues are in regard to the business transaction, not religious beliefs.

 

Legal marriage is purely a political issue, and we should regard it as such.

 

 

[Vinnie]

uhhh, can we slightly change the title of this topic. Like put it in quotes. At face value it almost looks like we are for it. 

[hatcheckgirl]

7 hours ago, Stavro said:

Legal marriage is purely a political issue, and we should regard it as such.

 

Exactly.

[carlos]

I can understand why our Australian friends may feel disgusted. But I'd like to mention a couple points:

 

- As Stavro mentioned, gay marriage is a political issue and JWs do not have any opinion on political issues. We are not against gay marriage, nor in favor, of course. If someone asks what do we think about gay marriage, our reply should be that we don't opine on political issues but in our personal life we strive to follow God's standards. The Bible states clearly that Jehovah disapproves homosexuality, so we avoid it. We don't try to impose that view on others, though.

 

- I see some friends here are scared and view this as a big deal, but it's not the end of the world. Gay marriage has been legal in Spain from 2005, and life goes on as usual. At first people talk a lot about it, thousands of gays hurry up to get married now that they can, and then after some time the fever vanishes, homosexual couples divorce as the rest, and everything goes back to normal. Gay marriage doesn't have any bearing on the life of most Christians (unless you're a judge and have to marry them, or something like that).

[GoldAussieGirl]

I'm in Aus and to be perfectly honest I'm sick to death of hearing about it. We have been getting confronted over the issue in the ministry and the brother taking the group this morning reminded us that if we get asked, we say it's a private issue. We do not get involved or interfere in others lives but we uphold gods moral standards. 

 

What frustrates me me the most is seeing immediate family members posting their support all over Facebook. Ugh. They only hold the view because it's now become the popular one. And they think we are the sheep! Well actually hopefully we are! 

[Brandon]

Just wait until it becomes politically incorrect to assume the pronouns of people you meet in the ministry...  yup that's where we're at in Ontario and other places.

 

In all honesty though, we've been having to teach our children to think more critically about the education they are receiving from schools for decades. We should never pass off sex, marriage, gender, pregnancy, etc. education to our schools anyway.

 

They've been teaching tolerance or even outright encouraging masturbation, premarital sex, abortion, experimenting with drugs, homosexuality, pornography, and all sorts of things for many years.  Now that genderfluidity and related ideas have been officially added to the public school curriculum here (and we basically only have public and catholic schools--I've never even seen a private elementary school here), a number of witnesses have been saying how we need to 'deprogram' our kids after they come home from school some days.  To this, all I can think is, obviously!  and I needed that too when I was in school, but I guess parents in the truth didn't realize how bad it was even before same sex marriage was legal, everyone had a smartphone, etc.

 

I mean, the stuff kids were doing and learning about on the internet back then would have shocked parents if they had bothered to pay attention to their kids.  Even in the late 90s, preteens were suddenly facing an onslaught of weird ideas. In some ways it was actually worse back because terms like social media didn't exist and our publications didn't investigate these things quite as in depth.  It was generally just these brief mentions of 'dangers of chatrooms' and the like, with parents just kinda looking at their kids and saying "oh I hope that's not something you do."  But even if it wasn't an interest to their child, you better bet they'd been in one at least once.  Of course, chat rooms weren't and aren't actually all evil, but rather, it's the potential for bad that exists in the virtual space, where even laws around criminal activity, basic common sense, and other things we take for granted in the real world are essentially non-existent in the virtual.

[dove]

I'm so glad I am not raising  my children in this atmosphere today. The most we had to worry about was alcohol, tobacco bad association, celebrating the holidays and sex. Enough I know.  And the school system was a problem at times with the holidays, patriotism, material and videos they were required to read, watch, extracurricular activities, et.

 

Four children in 5 years became 4 teenagers simultaneously. While they were good kids, the worldly influences were still there but not like today with all the electronic devices, social media, drugs and a sex crazed world. Now add the gender issue.

 

It's such a blessing that the Slave has made so many important provisions for parents and children today to counteract satan's influence in their lives at a time when they are their most vulnerable.. because Now my children have to deal with it all with their children.. 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Dove

[Vinnie]

Wow, schools were bad 20 years ago. They've really gone from bad to worst now.

[dove]

2 hours ago, Vinnie said:

Wow, schools were bad 20 years ago. They've really gone from bad to worst now.

Vinnie, I should really qualify the time period here. My children have already left school. They are not only parents but grandparents, so yes the schools were pretty bad more than 40 or more years ago, even when I was going  longer ago than that. 

But fortunately, they have  the option  to home schooling giving their kids a better chance with less of these bad influences and safer in the violent climate today..

Edited November 16, 2017 by Dove

[MizPeg]

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 5:11 PM, carlos said:

I can understand why our Australian friends may feel disgusted. But I'd like to mention a couple points:

 

- As Stavro mentioned, gay marriage is a political issue and JWs do not have any opinion on political issues. We are not against gay marriage, nor in favor, of course. If someone asks what do we think about gay marriage, our reply should be that we don't opine on political issues but in our personal life we strive to follow God's standards. The Bible states clearly that Jehovah disapproves homosexuality, so we avoid it. We don't try to impose that view on others, though.

 

- I see some friends here are scared and view this as a big deal, but it's not the end of the world. Gay marriage has been legal in Spain from 2005, and life goes on as usual. At first people talk a lot about it, thousands of gays hurry up to get married now that they can, and then after some time the fever vanishes, homosexual couples divorce as the rest, and everything goes back to normal. Gay marriage doesn't have any bearing on the life of most Christians (unless you're a judge and have to marry them, or something like that).

A question that might help?  If you approach someone to witness to, and they state they area same sex couple, married legally, would you withhold the ' truth' , from them? Extremely difficult situation, but with Holy spirit all things are possible, isn't? And who are we to judge someone who hasn't been enlightened?

The English refer to this situation as, "a bit of a sticky wicket" ?

[MizPeg]

23 hours ago, Dove said:

I'm so glad I am not raising  my children in this atmosphere today. The most we had to worry about was alcohol, tobacco bad association, celebrating the holidays and sex. Enough I know.  And the school system was a problem at times with the holidays, patriotism, material and videos they were required to read, watch, extracurricular activities, et.

 

Four children in 5 years became 4 teenagers simultaneously. While they were good kids, the worldly influences were still there but not like today with all the electronic devices, social media, drugs and a sex crazed world. Now add the gender issue.

 

It's such a blessing that the Slave has made so many important provisions for parents and children today to counteract satan's influence in their lives at a time when they are their most vulnerable.. because Now my children have to deal with it all with their children.. 

 

 

 Well, Sandra,look for the blessing in you and your daughters situation. She can ask you questions, that you have experience with  to some extent.

[dove]

15 minutes ago, MizPeg said:

 Well, Sandra,look for the blessing in you and your daughters situation. She can ask you questions, that you have experience with  to some extent.

That's true..knowledge and experience get passed down the generations as they have with their own..thank you..

[Stavro]

37 minutes ago, MizPeg said:

Extremely difficult situation, but with Holy spirit all things are possible, isn't?

 

Why would it be any more difficult than an unmarried gay couple? "That is what some of you were." (1 Corinthians 6:11)

 

Just about everyone who comes into the truth has to make difficult choices regarding their family and their loved ones, sometimes even their own spouse. Being gay or straight doesn't change the unique difficulties every person faces, it only changes the labels we use to describe them.

 

 

[Hope]

There are plenty of people who've had to give up partners, even fiances (and in polygamous cultures, even mates), in order to take to the Truth.  I'm certain it's heartbreaking for every one of them.  Maybe a bit more so for those with homosexual feelings because they may have no opportunity to marry one they truly love on this side of Armageddon.

 

Then again... that may be true for anyone, really...

Edited November 17, 2017 by Hope

[ChocoBro]

On 16.11.2017 at 12:11 AM, carlos said:

 

- I see some friends here are scared and view this as a big deal, but it's not the end of the world.

 

Actually, Carlos, it is kind of the end of this world

 

I can't be bothered to think about all this social justice warfare anymore, it's obnoxious. Today, we got an e-mail from a student in Berlin complaining about gender-specific bathroom signs. The most foul language I ever read in a customer e-mail, full of typos and grammatical errors. Professing to be politically correct while at the same time containing a microaggression towards males concerning the scent of their excrement *tut tut*

 

This world is going straight down the pipe, full-blown gaga-style. But not everyone wants to go along with it. Prepare for civil unrests and the war between left and right to worsen, because iron and clay don't mix.

[hatcheckgirl]

8 hours ago, ChocoBro said:

I can't be bothered to think about all this social justice warfare anymore, it's obnoxious

 

It's sickening to have to sit through work training to cater for every single social issue encountered.  I don't have the time to learn to do my job properly and have technical training because we are constantly having L&D on social issues, and we must tip-toe around these people for fear of offending them, and be seen to be non-judgmental.  When we read in our own publications the need for impartiality, mercy, compassion and covering over sins with love, I realise what a balanced lot of people we are - because we have Jehovah's view on how to treat all people.  Fairly, but without pandering to every social injustice "woe is me" symptom of society.  They don't want fixes, they just want their loudest voices heard above the clamour of the others, selfish for their own needs above all else regardless...

[ChocoBro]

4 hours ago, hatcheckgirl said:

They don't want fixes, they just want their loudest voices heard above the clamour of the others, selfish for their own needs above all else regardless...

 

And this is precisely what it's about for those not involved directly, but that are involved in the support campaigns. It's not about "justice", it's about being heard.

Edited November 18, 2017 by ChocoBro

[tekmantwo]

I read on another forum (ShopFloorTalk) that the reason there were so many  'yes' votes is because the ballots, a great many of them,  got stolen out of peoples mail boxes. The thief then marked the ballot with a 'yes' vote and filled in the name and address of the house holder that they stole from and mailed them in...

 

Imagine that,  stealing and lying during an election. ..shocking! ..makes you wonder what this world is coming to. .

 

It was noticed because a bunch of people could tell that their neighbors and friends,  even relatives, had a  'yes' vote accredited to them after saying that they were voting 'no'....

 

I don't know how accurate that story is but there were several people on that forum that agreed with that report.  

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, tekmantwo said:

I read on another forum (ShopFloorTalk) that the reason there were so many  'yes' votes is because the ballots, a great many of them,  got stolen out of peoples mail boxes. The thief then marked the ballot with a 'yes' vote and filled in the name and address of the house holder that they stole from and mailed them in...

 

Imagine that,  stealing and lying during an election. ..shocking! ..makes you wonder what this world is coming to. .

 

It was noticed because a bunch of people could tell that their neighbors and friends,  even relatives, had a  'yes' vote accredited to them after saying that they were voting 'no'....

 

I don't know how accurate that story is but there were several people on that forum that agreed with that report.  

Because people would never lie to their neighbors