Vegan and vegetarian brothers and sisters

[Cushi]

Sorry folks if my comment was controversial. It wasn’t meant to be. I was just sharing my experience.

13 minutes ago, Naturale said:

For many it isn't about dietary wishes, it is about health.  For some eating a diet that would be considered "normal" makes them ill.  

Thank you.

[Naturale]

17 hours ago, Gary910 said:

Thank you Qapla, I think that is well put.

 

I am a 30 year vegetarian. I don't think my diet/eating choices is right for everyone. I have said earlier in this topic, I can argue vegetarian/vegan or meat eating in the New World. I think we are all going to be shocked by "how it really is" in the New World. Everything we think now is a guess, except what is implicitly said in the scriptures. The Bible gives us an idea of how it will be, but really there is a lot we can only guess.

 

Thanks again Qapla, well stated.

We do know however that if humans had never sinned there would have been no eating of meat etc. It was not part of Jehovah's original purpose that humans eat meat. Jehovah provided everything they needed in abundance in the garden of Eden.  

[Thesauron]

We do know however that if humans had never sinned there would have been no eating of meat etc. It was not part of Jehovah's original purpose that humans eat meat. Jehovah provided everything they needed in abundance in the garden of Eden.  

We don’t know that. It’s hard to say anything about things that didn’t happen.

[Hope]

18 hours ago, EccentricM said:

Different psychological functions. Some people keep to themselves and feel drained from too much expression or social interaction, where as others have a "need" to express to fulfill mental satisfaction.

 

I get that.  I guess it's sorta like when we read/hear expressions like, "Remember how excited you were when you learned the Truth?  And wanted to tell everyone about it??"  That was never me - and not because I didn't love the Truth or felt embarrassed to be a Witness.  I'm just rarely excited enough about anything that I've decided for myself to try and get others excited about it or to do like I've done or approve.  I don't have *that* sort of "evangelizing spirit".  It's not about being shy or drained.  I just think people will do what they want to just like I do and don't need me jumping on them about it.  If they're interested, they'll ask.

 

Which is why I'm sorta loving the restrictions in the EU/UK about not doing return visits and the like.  If the interest must come from the householder first, I'm all in for that!  I don't like bothering people.  😉

 

Now -- back to topic!  Vegans unite!!!   

[BenJepthah]

1 hour ago, Naturale said:

We do know however that if humans had never sinned there would have been no eating of meat etc. It was not part of Jehovah's original purpose that humans eat meat. Jehovah provided everything they needed in abundance in the garden of Eden.  

Assuming this is true then Either Adam And Eve could produce their own Vitamin D or else they lived in a very sunny Garden of Eden. Persons who live in the tropics can easily be Vegan but vitamin D deficiency in polar regions and deeply forested lands with longer winters make dietary supplementation ( usually through animal sources) quite necessary.

    Perhaps a feature of perfect humanity is the ability to produce vitamin D without sunlight.

Edited June 17, 2019 by BenJepthah

[Naturale]

7 minutes ago, BenJepthah said:

Assuming this is true then Either Adam And Eve could produce their own Vitamin D or else they lived in a very sunny Garden of Eden. Persons who live in the tropics can easily be Vegan but vitamin D deficiency in polar regions and deeply forested lands with longer winters make dietary supplementation ( usually through animal sources) quite necessary.

    Perhaps a feature of perfect humanity is the ability to produce vitamin D without sunlight.

So you don't think that Jehovah provided foods in the garden of eden that contained vitamin D?  As if the creator of the universe hadn't thought of that?  there would have been plants and fruits in that beautiful garden that we could never even dream of today.  

 

As for here and now there are certain mushrooms that are high in vitamin D. Other sources are such things as Tofu, Kale, Spinach, Okra, Yoghurt...

[BenJepthah]

1 hour ago, Naturale said:

So you don't think that Jehovah provided foods in the garden of eden that contained vitamin D?  As if the creator of the universe hadn't thought of that?  there would have been plants and fruits in that beautiful garden that we could never even dream of today.  

 

As for here and now there are certain mushrooms that are high in vitamin D. Other sources are such things as Tofu, Kale, Spinach, Okra, Yoghurt...

What fruits and vegetables contain a significant Amount  of Vitamin D? Of those fruits and veggies listed above Tofu and Yogurt alone have Vitamin D. Why? And Mushrooms are the ONLY source of Vitamin D in the produce isle. They use sunlight to make it: just like us. So are they actually an animal?

Edited June 17, 2019 by BenJepthah

[Thesauron]

What fruits and vegetables contain a significant Amount  of Vitamin D? Of those fruits and veggies listed above Tofu and Yogurt alone have Vitamin D. Why? And Mushrooms are the ONLY source of Vitamin D in the produce isle. They use sunlight to make it: just like us. So are they actually an animal?

They are something between animal and vegetable. Man, by the way, wasn’t made to eat them, it seems. They really need to be cooked to be beneficial.

[BenJepthah]

16 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

They are something between animal and vegetable. Man, by the way, wasn’t made to eat them, it seems. They really need to be cooked to be beneficial.

I never realized that. Maybe that’s why I got so sick on Chanterelles ( I didn’t cook them long enough). So this would probably preclude Adam And Eve using them in the Garden of Eden ( assuming no fire). Unless a part of the perfect state included the ability to eat fungi.   It also brings another piece of evidence to the table in “ the Canopy” thread. 

[Thesauron]

I never realized that. Maybe that’s why I got so sick on Chanterelles ( I didn’t cook them long enough). So this would probably preclude Adam And Eve using them in the Garden of Eden ( assuming no fire). Unless a part of the perfect state included the ability to eat fungi.   It also brings another piece of evidence to the table in “ the Canopy” thread. 

Why do you think that has any bearing on your “canopy” theory!

Regarding edible mushrooms: http://www.pbs.org/food/the-history-kitchen/edible-mushrooms/

[Naturale]

12 hours ago, Thesauron said:

They are something between animal and vegetable. Man, by the way, wasn’t made to eat them, it seems. They really need to be cooked to be beneficial.

A mushroom is NOT an animal

Edited June 18, 2019 by Naturale

[Naturale]

12 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

What fruits and vegetables contain a significant Amount  of Vitamin D? Of those fruits and veggies listed above Tofu and Yogurt alone have Vitamin D. Why? And Mushrooms are the ONLY source of Vitamin D in the produce isle. They use sunlight to make it: just like us. So are they actually an animal?

All plants etc use photosynthesis to transform energy from sunlight into a usable form.

 

[Naturale]

12 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

I never realized that. Maybe that’s why I got so sick on Chanterelles ( I didn’t cook them long enough). So this would probably preclude Adam And Eve using them in the Garden of Eden ( assuming no fire). Unless a part of the perfect state included the ability to eat fungi.   It also brings another piece of evidence to the table in “ the Canopy” thread. 

Why assume no fire?  Super intelligent humans and direct communication with their creator who gave them instructions on what to eat, how to eat it etc.  Some things are better raw while other things have to be cooked in order to be eaten. They weren't living like cave men. They had the ultimate life in the garden of eden - it was far from basic.

[Naturale]

21 minutes ago, Naturale said:

All plants etc use photosynthesis to transform energy from sunlight into a usable form.

 

Interestingly microalgae contain both vitamin D3 and provitamin D3, which suggests that vitamin D3 exists in the plant kingdom and vitamin D3 has also been identified in several plants pecies as a surprise to many.

[Naturale]

13 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

 And Mushrooms are the ONLY source of Vitamin D in the produce isle. They use sunlight to make it: just like us. So are they actually an animal?

Mushrooms are fungi so that puts them in  a separate group.  They contain no chlorophyll and most are considered saprophytes - they obtain their nutrition from metabolizing non living organic matter.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Naturale

[Naturale]

13 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

What fruits and vegetables contain a significant Amount  of Vitamin D? Of those fruits and veggies listed above Tofu and Yogurt alone have Vitamin D. 

Yes you are right.  Kale, Spinach, Okra are calcium rich which helps us absorb vitamin D

Edited June 18, 2019 by Naturale

[Thesauron]

A mushroom is NOT an animal

It is not, but it is closer to animals than vegetables. The mushroom is a fungus.

[Naturale]

Evolutionists say     "As early fungi made the evolutionary journey from water to land and branched off from animals, they shed tail-like flagella that propelled them through their aquatic environment and evolved a variety of new mechanisms (including explosive volleys and fragrances) to disperse their spores and reproduce in a terrestrial setting".

 

We don't believe that, we simply believe that everything was made according to its kind.  Therefore fungi is just fungi.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Naturale

[Witness1970]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 1:11 PM, Antares92 said:

Hi! I would like to meet more vegan or vegetarian brothers and sisters around the world. I've been a vegetarian since 2008, although it hasn't been easy to accept and forgive the prejudices of other members of Jehovah's people. Last Tuesday, for example, a sister told me that, since Jehovah authorized the consumption of meat, we were against the divine purpose… that's why we have 2 groups on Facebook, to interchange encouragement:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/979968315365585

 

http://www.facebook.com/groups/997593600263055

 

 

The fact that Jehovah said it is OK to eat meat does not mean that we are required to eat meat. Some people tend to carry things to the absurd and think it is logical.

[Qapla]

The fact that there is nothing in the Bible as to weather Jehovah would have allowed/instructed man to eat meat at some point even if there had not been a flood does not meant that man would never eat meat any more than it means man would never use the wheel - after all, the Bible does not say Adam and Eve used wheels ... so, is it logical to assume that, had man not sinned, the wheel would never have been invented?

 

The Bible contains very little about man's daily life before the flood. Genesis 1-5 covers the creation, Adam's sinning and the genealogy of mankind to Noah. There is nothing about what type of housing they had, the tools they used or the food they ate. Any conclusions we come to about these things are only "guesses" ... not "fact". So, we cannot say they did or did not eat meat any more than we can say they did or did not use wheels, live in tents or houses or anything else that is not specifically stated in the account.

 

Likewise, since Jehovah has not included details of what we will and won't have in the New System, we cannot say for sure what our diets will include or eliminate ... 

[BenJepthah]

41 minutes ago, Qapla said:

The fact that there is nothing in the Bible as to weather Jehovah would have allowed/instructed man to eat meat at some point even if there had not been a flood does not meant that man would never eat meat any more than it means man would never use the wheel - after all, the Bible does not say Adam and Eve used wheels ... so, is it logical to assume that, had man not sinned, the wheel would never have been invented?

 

The Bible contains very little about man's daily life before the flood. Genesis 1-5 covers the creation, Adam's sinning and the genealogy of mankind to Noah. There is nothing about what type of housing they had, the tools they used or the food they ate. Any conclusions we come to about these things are only "guesses" ... not "fact". So, we cannot say they did or did not eat meat any more than we can say they did or did not use wheels, live in tents or houses or anything else that is not specifically stated in the account.

 

Likewise, since Jehovah has not included details of what we will and won't have in the New System, we cannot say for sure what our diets will include or eliminate ... 

I’m actually hoping that restoration to Human perfection will include : “ Human Photosynthesis “ ! I think it would be easier being green.

[Thesauron]

Evolutionists say     "As early fungi made the evolutionary journey from water to land and branched off from animals, they shed tail-like flagella that propelled them through their aquatic environment and evolved a variety of new mechanisms (including explosive volleys and fragrances) to disperse their spores and reproduce in a terrestrial setting".
 
We don't believe that, we simply believe that everything was made according to its kind.  Therefore fungi is just fungi.

We believe that if you study these life forms, you could map their similarities to one another, not how they are related from an evolutionary viewpoint.

The fact that there is nothing in the Bible as to weather Jehovah would have allowed/instructed man to eat meat at some point even if there had not been a flood does not meant that man would never eat meat any more than it means man would never use the wheel - after all, the Bible does not say Adam and Eve used wheels ... so, is it logical to assume that, had man not sinned, the wheel would never have been invented?
 
The Bible contains very little about man's daily life before the flood. Genesis 1-5 covers the creation, Adam's sinning and the genealogy of mankind to Noah. There is nothing about what type of housing they had, the tools they used or the food they ate. Any conclusions we come to about these things are only "guesses" ... not "fact". So, we cannot say they did or did not eat meat any more than we can say they did or did not use wheels, live in tents or houses or anything else that is not specifically stated in the account.
 
Likewise, since Jehovah has not included details of what we will and won't have in the New System, we cannot say for sure what our diets will include or eliminate ... 

All I can say is... a world without ice cream? Really? Because... did Adam drink milk?

[Cushi]

On 6/17/2019 at 6:54 AM, Qapla said:

 

The thing is ... when you learn the Truth, what you have learned is the Truth and it applies to ALL mankind. The only way to live is Jehovah's way. It is not an "opinion", it is a fact. Yes, there are many people who do not want to listen and it baffles us because it is hard to understand why people do not want to embrace the sayings of everlasting life.

As you say, I have also heard from multiple vegan brothers and sisters about the "resistance" of other people to adopt their diet. However, diet, what we eat, is NOT the same. How your diet affects you may not be the same as how that same diet may affect someone else. It is not the "truth" about eating/food/diet. 

 

What I have found is that, when people try some diet the helps them, they not only want to tell others - they insist that it is the way others should eat. I have seen this with attitude/insistence/zealousness with those who "discover" vitamins, noni juice, protein powders, low carb, high carb, and ... yes, vegan/vegetarian.

 

It is one thing to tell others that you feel better due to your change in diet - it is another thing to tell them that they should adopt your diet. It is this latter thing that people do not want to hear.

 

To better understand this ... think about some of your own comments in this thread. You started out talking about vegetarian diet. Then you changed to "vegan". Later you switched to "frutarian" - and, when some on here tried to show concern and caution about a fruit only diet, you took the same exception/resistance to these comments/concerns that you are saying that meat eaters take when others insist they should change their diet.

 

Until we get into the New System there will not be anything that "cures and prevents cancer, reverses heart disease, cures type 1 diabetes, high blood pressure, manages rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and many other ailments" - at least, not something that works for all people all the time ... this includes diet, medication, exercise and/or the many other "cure all" things "research has shown" will do these things. There are no "cure all" treatments/diets in this system.

 

There are some people who do wood working. I like to do this myself. I find it relaxing and makes me appreciate how Jehovah created something as versatile as wood. If I started telling people that wood working could lower their blood pressure, calm their heart, help their food digest and make them feel better all over ... how would they react? Just because I like it, and I can find others who also like it - does not mean that everyone would or should do woodworking.

 

Now, if I said that telling others about woodworking is like learning the Truth - that people are not as excited about it as I am and don't want to listen - you'd think I was being a little extreme ... and, you'd be right!

 

The same holds true for diets. Just because it works for you does not mean it will have the same results for others ... or that everyone should do it.

When I said that people argue you down about a vegan diet because they don’t want to make changes to theirs, I didn’t mean that I try to insist that people follow a vegan diet. I have never insisted or even encouraged anyone to adopt a vegan lifestyle. I’m usually not the one to initiate the conversation. The friends will ask me how I’ve lost weight or why I chose not to eat at certain restaurants and I will tell them that I’m vegan. They then try to engage in an argument about my diet. It leaves me baffled thinking this diet works for me and has improved my health and you want to argue with me about it? The only time I have initiated the conversation is when I spoke to a few of my family members and I was simply telling them how it has helped me. Even still, I didn’t encourage them to go vegan because everyone has their own preferences and I wouldn’t want someone telling me what diet I should adopt.

[Qapla]

Jack,

Thanks for making that a little clearer. 

 

There is a big difference in simply saying that your new diet is helping you and saying that "the truth about diet is is that [any particular diet] cures ailments" and indicating that is is the only "correct" diet.

 

I am glad your diet is working for you.

 

I have never tried to talk a vegan/vegetarian into changing their diet, making it seem that their diet is "wrong" somehow - I only ask that they do the same for me ...

[Cushi]

On 6/17/2019 at 10:37 AM, Thesauron said:

I am not criticising your choices, only that you indicated that you’d chose a vegan diet over doing the ministry we’re required, if you had to chose, and leave the work to others. We all do what we can, right? If you need to take medication, or otherwise have a chronic illness, perhaps you can’t serve where the need is greater. It’s understandable. If they COULD chose, they would. These brothers and sisters don’t argue that there are so many others to do the work. Instead, they support the work in whatever way they can. Personally, I had do to a lot of changes to serve as I do currently, too.

Like I said, your circumstances are obviously different from mine. I too have made sacrifices to advance kingdom interest. I’m a regular auxiliary pioneer and spend much time in the ministry. I do what my circumstances allow. It’s true that Jehovah would love for us to serve where the need is great... but I’m sure he wouldn’t want us to if it would mean compromising our health or putting our very lives in jeopardy. It would make more sense for someone who’s health or life won’t be jeopardized to go on the assignment instead of us. Going on the assignment would defeat the purpose. How could we serve if we are in bad health? 

If you were diabetic would you accept an assignment in a country if you knew the only available diet would compromise your health and put your life at risk? No, I don’t think you would. After all, assignments are not supposed to be death sentences. Why do you think no witnesses are sent to North Korea, Somalia and Afghanistan?