The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[ChocoBro]

28 minutes ago, Bob said:

Totally agree with this entire point. Doomsaying sells right now. Asymptomatic carries are often demonized as "silent spreaders" which is nothing more than a stigma. It helps to think about it this way: not only do they confer immunity as you say, but it shows the death rate is significantly lower than people play it up to be. 

Wearing masks and social distancing does not prevent the spread. That has recently been proven in the case of a German church where after a service, several were "infected" (whatever that means) despite having heeded all precautions. 

 

46 minutes ago, Snority said:

 

 

You said, "This is totally the type of worldly, overboard mentality that is driving my crazy at the moment, and I am not going along with it!!" 

                 I'm sorry you feel this way brother.  This came straight from our CO and from our elders.  

Thank you for sharing the opinion of your CO and your elders. I think it is immoral to confer responsibility of the spread of a disease to an asymptomatic carrier. And again, I am so shocked at this paradigm shift... just 6 months ago, people would go to work with the flu and others would just gently shrug their shoulders. Now, it is a bloodguilt issue when you unknowingly spread a disease. Whatever...

 

 

[ChocoBro]

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/a-years-worth-of-suicide-attempts-in-the-last-four-weeks-california-doctor-calls-for-end-to-lockdown/

 

While everybody is busy demonizing people who don't like being imprisoned in their own homes, suicides are on the rise

 

Quote

The doctor in charge of a Bay Area, Calif. trauma center said the state should end its lockdown orders after an “unprecedented” spike in suicide attempts amid the coronavirus pandemic.

“We’ve never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time,” Dr. Mike deBoisblanc, head of trauma at John Muir Medical Center, told local station ABC7. “I mean, we’ve seen a year’s worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks.”

I'm really happy for all of you who think sitting around at home and waving at each other after zoom meetings is a great provision and who think this is going to be super cool to continue to do until Armageddon. I personally belong to those that are sliding into a severe depression from all of what is happening. It isn't a black and white issue. Mental health problems are real, and hardly anybody has given any regard to those suffering from them in the past weeks.

 

I'm just happy to know the truth that Jehovah is also able to forgive people that don't have the coping mechanisms to deal with the pain of living in this horrible system.

[Bob]

36 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

Wearing masks and social distancing does not prevent the spread. That has recently been proven in the case of a German church where after a service, several were "infected" (whatever that means) despite having heeded all precautions. 

Well, that's probably because people feel secure and totally safe with a mask on and they tend to take risks that they wouldn't take without a mask on. Public health officials keep saying "masks don't replace physical distance" and in the same breath, the very next breath, they say "wear a mask when you can't stay six feet a part" and that you don't need a mask when you're 6 feet away, so that mixed messaging reads as masks substituting for physical distancing. 

 

People absolutely feel secure will come close to you when they have a mask on. To "slow the spread" the 6 feet rule works better than a mask any day of the week in my opinion. So it seems to be they don't know how to deal with this and are just trying anything even if it doesn't work.

 

And being locked indoor with no ventilation has proven to infect people. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Bob

[M.J.]

24 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/a-years-worth-of-suicide-attempts-in-the-last-four-weeks-california-doctor-calls-for-end-to-lockdown/

 

While everybody is busy demonizing people who don't like being imprisoned in their own homes, suicides are on the rise

 

I'm really happy for all of you who think sitting around at home and waving at each other after zoom meetings is a great provision and who think this is going to be super cool to continue to do until Armageddon. I personally belong to those that are sliding into a severe depression from all of what is happening. It isn't a black and white issue. Mental health problems are real, and hardly anybody has given any regard to those suffering from them in the past weeks.

 

I'm just happy to know the truth that Jehovah is also able to forgive people that don't have the coping mechanisms to deal with the pain of living in this horrible system.

I'm sorry to hear you are struggling with severe depression 😞  watching the news can make it worse. And being on this thread, with so many differing opinions, may make it even harder.  I hope you are able to find individuals you can trust and reach out to, who can help you through this difficult time...♡

 

The comfort/consolation thread on this site may have some people who are more compassionate and sympathetic and can relate better to your concerns. ♡

[BenJepthah]

50 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

Wearing masks and social distancing does not prevent the spread. That has recently been proven in the case of a German church where after a service, several were "infected" (whatever that means) despite having heeded all precautions. 

 

Thank you for sharing the opinion of your CO and your elders. I think it is immoral to confer responsibility of the spread of a disease to an asymptomatic carrier. And again, I am so shocked at this paradigm shift... just 6 months ago, people would go to work with the flu and others would just gently shrug their shoulders. Now, it is a bloodguilt issue when you unknowingly spread a disease. Whatever...

 

 

I have to agree. How can we be bloodguilty by unknowingly spreading the disease.  My guess is that this is a miscommunication or misunderstanding of the Branches wording.  
    Now, understanding that we COULD be carriers of COVID and knowing that we might be able to spread it we as a people should avoid behaviors that spread the disease ( the public ministry and our meetings ) when alternatives are available ( Writing and Zoom).  So I can understand how the Branch would make the case that these type of behaviors when practiced as a people may result in reproach upon Jehovah’s people. This is to be avoided. But by merely passing on the virus in the coarse of necessary activity ( say grocery shopping) can hardly be blood guilt.  

Edited May 24, 2020 by BenJepthah

[BenJepthah]

43 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

I'm really happy for all of you who think sitting around at home and waving at each other after zoom meetings is a great provision and who think this is going to be super cool to continue to do until Armageddon. I personally belong to those that are sliding into a severe depression from all of what is happening. It isn't a black and white issue. Mental health problems are real, and hardly anybody has given any regard to those suffering from them in the past weeks.

   Very sorry to hear of your plight. I would have the same problem had this hit my area in the early winter. s.A.D.  Or if I lived in a city. ( which looks like a nightmare ).  And agree the steps take. By many governments to contain this virus are actually causing UN tolled harm in unseen ways.

[Bluebell]

Knowing that your family member will die if you bring the virus home I class this as  bloodguilt......

As we are in the high risk group our grandson (23) who is living with us......knows that the virus

would kill us, so he decided to stay at home....not working (furlough) and avoiding

any contact with his many friends in the congregation  

....for an active young person this is very hard and we appreciate it.......

 

either you stay at home and be safe or you go out and risk to catch the virus

Edited May 24, 2020 by Bluebell

[Bob]

28 minutes ago, BenJepthah said:

I have to agree. How can we be bloodguilty by unknowingly spreading the disease.  My guess is that this is a miscommunication or misunderstanding of the Branches wording.  
    Now, understanding that we COULD be carriers of COVID and knowing that we might be able to spread it we as a people should avoid behaviors that spread the disease ( the public ministry and our meetings ) when alternatives are available ( Writing and Zoom).  So I can understand how the Branch would make the case that these type of behaviors when practiced as a people may result in reproach upon Jehovah’s people. This is to be avoided. But by merely passing on the virus in the coarse of necessary activity ( say grocery shopping) can hardly be blood guilt.  

I agree with you here, largely. I think the brothers are just taking the experts at their word and are following the advice. That's understandable. I take the advice too. But there is something to be said about the experts going back and forth on how it spreads. First they were against masks and said they don't offer any protection, now they're saying they do. Then they said you can catch covid from surfaces, now they're saying its not likely to be spread that way. And then they said "we are still learning".

 

My point isn't to cast doubt on the experts. But their advice to avoid your family and friends and to isolate yourself in your home for an indefinite period of time has cause irreparable damage to people physically, emotionally and financially, and they turn and say "oh, we are still learning but stay away from your family and friends and your job, and don't go outside until we say its safe to do it". 

 

That's a very hardline stance to take against an infection they admit to not understanding.

 

Its just something to think about. I'm not saying to disregard their advice, because my family still follows it.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Bob

[BenJepthah]

2 minutes ago, Bluebell said:

Knowing that your family member will die if you bring the virus home I class this as  bloodguilt......

As we are in the high risk group our grandson (23) who is living with us......knows that the virus

would kill us, so he decided to stay at home....not working (furlough) and avoiding

any contact with his many friends in the congregation  

....for an active young person this is very hard and we appreciate it.......

Yes I agree if you KNOW they will die or possibly even if you suspect they will die ( the parapet around the roof precedent).  That is also why this is somewhat individualized. Not everyone has a flat roof.

[BenJepthah]

1 minute ago, Bob said:

I agree with you here, largely. I think the brothers are just taking the experts at their word and are following the advice. That's understandable. I take the advice too. But there is something to be said about the experts going back and forth on how it spreads. First they were against masks and said they don't offer any protection, now they're saying they do. Then they said you can catch covid from surfaces, now they're saying its not likely to be spread that way. And then they said "we are still learning".

 

My point isn't to cast doubt on the experts. But their advice to avoid your family and friends and to isolate yourself in your home for an indefinite period of time has cause irreparable damage to people physically, emotionally and financially, and they turn and say "oh, we are still learning but stay away from your family and friends and your job, and don't go outside until we say its safe to do it". 

 

Its just something to think about. I'm not saying to disregard their advice, because my family still follows it.

Yes, and another feature of the mask advice that should be considered ( as we have experienced who have done LDC work) there are health conditions like severe HTN which are exacerbated by wearing a mask. I know I had to

be medically cleared to wear an N95 and it’s very much a part of my job.  We in healthcare are all complaining of lite headaches these days due to constantly wearing masks. ( even now)And we are speculating that there will be long term effects. Some with panic disorders will probably have great difficulty. 

[Tortuga]

4 minutes ago, Bob said:

My point isn't to cast doubt on the experts. But their advice to avoid your family and friends and to isolate yourself in your home for an indefinite period of time has cause irreparable damage to people physically, emotionally and financially, and they turn and say "oh, we are still learning but stay away from your family and friends and your job, and don't go outside until we say its safe to do it". 

 

That's a very hardline stance to take against an infection they admit to not understanding.

 

Its just something to think about. I'm not saying to disregard their advice, because my family still follows it.

My personal opinion is that you have been casting doubt on the authorities which seems to question the GB recommendations to listen to the authorities. I personally have found many of your opinions to be discouraging instead of encouraging. 

[BenJepthah]

13 minutes ago, Bluebell said:

 

either you stay at home and be safe or you go out and risk to catch the virus

Actually, if home is a large apartment building I’m not at all confident that is safe. You may be safer sleeping in a  tent. 

[Shannie]

Even if they make a Vaccine  Me My Hubby and Kids Will Not be getting that Posion In a Bottle..

no telling what they put in it ...a rush job to Satisfy the world 🌎 I don’t trust the government 

[Bluebell]

1 minute ago, BenJepthah said:

Actually, if home is a large apartment building I’m not at all confident that is safe. You may be safer sleeping in a  tent. 

 our 2 bedroom flat is tiny without private garden but safe

....we are on the ground floor and only one above

[Bob]

4 minutes ago, Bro Richard said:

My personal opinion is that you have been casting doubt on the authorities which seems to question the GB recommendations to listen to the authorities. I personally have found many of your opinions to be discouraging instead of encouraging. 

That's understandable, really, it is. However, I follow all the advice from the authorities. I have always questioned the effectiveness of it and recently, the authorities are backing off their own advice to stay home as they see it really isn't effective as its caused damage in ways they didn't foresee. They have reversed their own medical guidelines as well.

 

I believe that as a human being, I have every right to question advice that has tangible affects on my life and emotional well-being.  

[BenJepthah]

10 minutes ago, Bro Richard said:

My personal opinion is that you have been casting doubt on the authorities which seems to question the GB recommendations to listen to the authorities. I personally have found many of your opinions to be discouraging instead of encouraging. 

How about this : Listen to the Organization, let the Organization decide which experts they will listen too and when.  

[Dustparticle]

4 hours ago, JennyM said:

Bethel warwick said we just don't know what  will this pandemic lead. 

Good point sis and this virus might mutate into something else.

[Bob]

12 minutes ago, Bro Richard said:

My personal opinion is that you have been casting doubt on the authorities which seems to question the GB recommendations to listen to the authorities. I personally have found many of your opinions to be discouraging instead of encouraging. 

I mean, for example brother, I cannot see my mother or do anything socially with my friends or family. We cannot meet as a congregation and we don't know how long this is going to last. I have friends who lost their jobs and were on the brink of financial ruin. So the side affects are real. So logically, I would expect people to at least while obeying the orders, wonder about the side affects. 

[Tortuga]

43 minutes ago, Bob said:

I mean, for example brother, I cannot see my mother or do anything socially with my friends or family. We cannot meet as a congregation and we don't know how long this is going to last. I have friends who lost their jobs and were on the brink of financial ruin. So the side affects are real. So logically, I would expect people to at least while obeying the orders, wonder about the side affects. 

I think we all understand your anger and frustration. Imperfect men are making imperfect decisions, it's the world we live in. The pandemic and the response to it along with natural disasters and environmental issues and the imperfect response to them are just as frustrating. 

 

We cant control the current world conditions but we can control our response to them and our emotions.

 

The brothers have reminded us how important it is to be loving and encouraging despite the storms around us. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Bro Richard

[Bluebell]

we know it is hard for everyone now.... but then we are living in the final days of the last days...

not in the great tribulation yet but very close......

so if we now lose our trust in Jehovah...how will we survive in the coming gr. T. ?

 

*** w13 11/15 p. 24 par. 14 Obey Jehovah’s Shepherds ***
Obedience to those who today are taking the lead among us is vital   =  

US branch announcement basically:
1.  Continue to stay home if you can.  The Branch realizes some of us will be returning to work

but is that really necessary in our case?  Make sure of the more important things, keep your eye simple in regards material goods.

[ChocoBro]

The government told me it was "best" if I stayed inside. I literally spent every second I could outside basking in as much sunlight as I could to build up my immune system after winter and improving my lung function by doing as much jogging and kettle-bell training for my core strength as I could. Needless to say I don't wear a mask when I go jogging, so I may or may not have spread the virus, since they closed off a lot of forest routes thus forcing me to jog in the streets like everybody else. Then they tried to scare-monger people here into staying home by claiming the virus could spread even worse when jogging or cycling but that fear-mongering attempt didn't sit well with anybody, the comment sections in those articles were rank with anger and people saying how sick and tired they are of all the scare-mongering. They quickly backed down from the idea of banning individual sports in the open..... and now they opened up the gyms again. 

 

Instead of playing this disgusting blame-game that Satan's system is using to disconnect us from each other and pit us against each other, by making us all see each other like living, breathing biohazards, I have decided to do what I know is best for my physical, mental and spiritual health. I only wear a mask in supermarkets or stores or in public transport because that is mandatory. I socially distance so as not to offend others but all in all I think the matter is heavily overrated. When people rush past me too close in the stores and get all apologetic I "smile" at them and say "Don't worry, I'm not scared of Corona...". I dance and sing in the supermarket when the music plays. I refuse to play along with this dehumanizing atmosphere of angst. It isn't good for my health, nor for the health of those around me.

Edited May 24, 2020 by ChocoBro

[cricket246]

In times like this we all need to take a deep breath.

 

The main thing to remember is, whether or not we all agree on wearing mask/social distancing/vaccines, etc. - we all agree on one thing = Jehovah is our God and we will choose to obey his direction through the Governing Body, whether or not we entirely understand or agree with it. Jehovah sees the whole picture, we do not!      

 

So,  question in line with today's public talk "Which God will You Serve?" - Imagine the following scenario : The Government declares that things are slowing down, it's safe to go out, a mask isn't needed and social distancing can be relaxed. However, the Governing body issues a warning advising us to stay at home and still practice wearing a mask/social distancing, etc. Who will we listen to? ❤️ 

[Bob]

1 minute ago, Bro Richard said:

I think we all understand your anger and frustration. Imperfect men are making imperfect decisions, it's the world we live in. The pandemic and the response to it along with natural disasters and environmental issues and the imperfect response to them are just as frustrating. 

 

We cant control the current world conditions but we can control our response to them and our emotions.

Agree. Trust me, I am NOT upset or even bothered by your opinion of my comments recently. Its not so much the imperfect response per se', its that I don't believe its working anymore and people are still suffering as a result. 

[Tortuga]

1 minute ago, Bob said:

Agree. Trust me, I am NOT upset or even bothered by your opinion of my comments recently. Its not so much the imperfect response per se', its that I don't believe its working anymore and people are still suffering as a result. 

That's why it's one of the signs that Jesus foretold. Add it to the list of things that all of us agree that mankind is mismanaging and let it go, we have better things to do with our time and energy...

[Bluebell]

2 minutes ago, cricket246 said:

In times like this we all need to take a deep breath.

 

The main thing to remember is, whether or not we all agree on wearing mask/social distancing/vaccines, etc. - we all agree on one thing = Jehovah is our God and we will choose to obey his direction through the Governing Body, whether or not we entirely understand or agree with it. Jehovah sees the whole picture, we do not!      

 

So,  question in line with today's public talk "Which God will You Serve?" - Imagine the following scenario : The Government declares that things are slowing down, it's safe to go out, a mask isn't needed and social distancing can be relaxed. However, the Governing body issues a warning advising us to stay at home and still practice wearing a mask/social distancing, etc. Who will we listen to? ❤️ 

I remember in one WT it was said that in the time of the end we need to obey the directions of the elders

even if we don't fully understand it....because it could mean our life or death