The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[BenJepthah]

https://apple.news/AqlbqcWWvTQy9om4Z6lR7HA
         Above is a link to an interesting report about another aspect of immunity. A Swedish Study is finding that for every person found with antibodies to COVID their are two who have T-cells capable of fighting the diseases. 
         Conclusion, as the number of infected increases world wide we may find we are more immune to this virus as a species than previously known.

[M.J.]

28 minutes ago, BenJepthah said:

https://apple.news/AqlbqcWWvTQy9om4Z6lR7HA
         Above is a link to an interesting report about another aspect of immunity. A Swedish Study is finding that for every person found with antibodies to COVID their are two who have T-cells capable of fighting the diseases. 
         Conclusion, as the number of infected increases world wide we may find we are more immune to this virus as a species than previously known.

Actually, the article comes from the website,

BGR, "a leading online destination for news and commentary focused on the mobile and consumer electronics markets." Not exactly a medical journal.

 

And your conclusion is rather broad and generic, as this article discussed only one study about T cells, while most other articles agree that most people seem to have no antibodies a few weeks after being exposed, leaving a question as to our ability to build herd immunity.

 

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650

Edited July 3, 2020 by M.J.

[BenJepthah]

29 minutes ago, M.J. said:

Actually, the article comes from the website,

BGR, "a leading online destination for news and commentary focused on the mobile and consumer electronics markets." Not exactly a medical journal.

 

And your conclusion is rather broad and generic, as this article discussed only one study about T cells, while most other articles agree that most people seem to have no antibodies a few weeks after being exposed, leaving a question as to our ability to build herd immunity.

 

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650

T Cells are a separate line of defense from Antibodies. The studies are indicating that although we have a limited window for antibody Protection it appears we may have a second line of defense in that in a second infection T cells are able to identify and destroy infected cells ( interrupting the reproductive cycle of the virus). 
      So, your conclusion about my conclusion is in error.🤔#science

[M.J.]

1 hour ago, BenJepthah said:

#science

Don't know what this means...?

 

1 hour ago, BenJepthah said:

 So, your conclusion about my conclusion is in error.

I just said your comment was broad and generic, now in your second post you explained it better.

[elisha]

Today's data (particularly in the US) simply cannot be squarely compared with the data from a few weeks ago.  So many factors have changed, most of which due to the number of test kits now available.  Just to name a few:

• Previously, test results were taking several days, sometimes 2 weeks.  Results are now coming back much quicker, treatment can be provided sooner.
• Those testing positive today were likely infected last week, as opposed to two weeks ago.  So it's closer to 'real-time', if you will.
• There was previously a significant lack of test kits.  This meant only the severest of cases were getting tested, and many of those tested were already in the hospital.
• Some who actually died of COVID-19 a couple of months ago were never actually tested, so they may not be reflected in the numbers.
• As tests now become widely available, more and more of those in the younger age group are testing positive.  They are also more likely to be asymptomatic or have minor symptoms.
• There are now some treatment options available, or at least there are some that are being trialed.

Other factors to consider:

• Accuracy of tests still uncertain, some suggesting false negatives as high as 25-50% of the time.  Multiple negative tests are needed to be considered "recovered".
• People are testing positive for over 6-8 weeks.  This can skew "outcome" data, as they remain active cases.

 

In my opinion, what's far more important than strictly looking at graphs of COVID-19 cases/deaths is hospital capacities, surge capacities, ICU rates, hospital staffing, COVID-19 hospitalizations.  If these are climbing and exceeding normal levels, hospitals will have trouble locating space for new COVID-19 patients; may be unable to provide treatment or consultation for other health issues that could worsen; other severe illnesses may go undiagnosed/untreated; elective surgeries will be delayed; etc.

[BenJepthah]

7 minutes ago, elisha said:

Today's data (particularly in the US) simply cannot be squarely compared with the data from a few weeks ago.  So many factors have changed, most of which due to the number of test kits now available.  Just to name a few:

• Previously, test results were taking several days, sometimes 2 weeks.  Results are now coming back much quicker, treatment can be provided sooner.
• Those testing positive today were likely infected last week, as opposed to two weeks ago.  So it's closer to 'real-time', if you will.
• There was previously a significant lack of test kits.  This meant only the severest of cases were getting tested, and many of those tested were already in the hospital.
• Some who actually died of COVID-19 a couple of months ago were never actually tested, so they may not be reflected in the numbers.
• As tests now become widely available, more and more of those in the younger age group are testing positive.  They are also more likely to be asymptomatic or have minor symptoms.
• There are now some treatment options available, or at least there are some that are being trialed.

Other factors to consider:

• Accuracy of tests still uncertain, some suggesting false negatives as high as 25-50% of the time.  Multiple negative tests are needed to be considered "recovered".
• People are testing positive for over 6-8 weeks.  This can skew "outcome" data, as they remain active cases.

 

In my opinion, what's far more important than strictly looking at graphs of COVID-19 cases/deaths is hospital capacities, surge capacities, ICU rates, hospital staffing, COVID-19 hospitalizations.  If these are climbing and exceeding normal levels, hospitals will have trouble locating space for new COVID-19 patients; may be unable to provide treatment or consultation for other health issues that could worsen; other severe illnesses may go undiagnosed/untreated; elective surgeries will be delayed; etc.

Wh at this demonstrates ( IMHO) is what I thought weeks ago. The lockdowns were just delaying the onset. They didn’t flatten the curve at all, just pushed it two months down the road. 
  Imagine the CV as a pack of wolves. We can stay inside all winter to avoid them but they are there in the spring anyway. 

[elisha]

1 minute ago, BenJepthah said:

Wh at this demonstrates ( IMHO) is what I thought weeks ago. The lockdowns were just delaying the onset. They didn’t flatten the curve at all, just pushed it two months down the road. 
  Imagine the CV as a pack of wolves. We can stay inside all winter to avoid them but they are there in the spring anyway. 

Yeah IMO, the lockdowns, the phrases "15 days to slow the spread", then "30 days to slow the spread", then 'flatten the curve'.. the CDC's original guidance that masks don't protect the wearer........   these were all just the government's attempts to buy time to build surge capacities and build up PPE stockpiles.  In other words by the time they got started with taking action, they may have realized it was too late to actually contain this thing (or get as close as possible to containing it) without decimating the economy.

[BenJepthah]

4 minutes ago, elisha said:

Yeah IMO, the lockdowns, the phrases "15 days to slow the spread", then "30 days to slow the spread", then 'flatten the curve'.. the CDC's original guidance that masks don't protect the wearer........   these were all just the government's attempts to buy time to build surge capacities and build up PPE stockpiles.  In other words by the time they got started with taking action, they may have realized it was too late to actually contain this thing (or get as close as possible to containing it) without decimating the economy.

This thing was really determined well before the government’s knew about it. 

[Todd komaniak]

5 hours ago, Mykyl said:

Interesting article on how scientists work out how deadly corona virus is.

 

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/coronavirus-deadlier-than-many-believed-infection-fatality-rate-cvd/

Health.com puts the number of dead by seasonal flu as of mid-march 29,000 that's the lower end of the scale so at 50 times deadlier is covid-19 lower end of the scale from the study quoted that would put us at 1450000 dead . This does not make sense

[Mykyl]

39 minutes ago, Todd komaniak said:

Health.com puts the number of dead by seasonal flu as of mid-march 29,000 that's the lower end of the scale so at 50 times deadlier is covid-19 lower end of the scale from the study quoted that would put us at 1450000 dead . This does not make sense

Read the article not the quote. It makes perfect sense if you read it. Its not about numbers. Its about how dangerous it is. There is no mention of how many deaths.

It's the exact same process used to work out how dangerous seasonal flu is every year. To reject one is to reject both covid and seasonal flu lethality results.

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Mykyl

[Hugh O'D]

1 hour ago, BenJepthah said:

The lockdowns were just delaying the onset. They didn’t flatten the curve at all, just pushed it two months down the road. 

My understanding from initial talk in Ireland was they were going to have X cases and the issue was would to spread out those X cases be timewise so you they wouldn't come for treatment at the same time. Afterwards people started talking about "beating" the disease etc and that was what people wanted to hear so that's what they were told.

 

In the meantime a small group keep trying to say this is for the long haul and that's why we were told at yesterday meeting that our winter conventions are cancelled.

 

 

[BenJepthah]

41 minutes ago, Hugh O'D said:

My understanding from initial talk in Ireland was they were going to have X cases and the issue was would to spread out those X cases be timewise so you they wouldn't come for treatment at the same time. Afterwards people started talking about "beating" the disease etc and that was what people wanted to hear so that's what they were told.

 

In the meantime a small group keep trying to say this is for the long haul and that's why we were told at yesterday meeting that our winter conventions are cancelled.

 

 

And there we have it. To the last day then. 

[pnutts]

Our circuit assemblies in Canada to end of November are canceled. After that we shall see. That means our Oct 2020 CA is canceled and we will do the download /stream version.

[BenJepthah]

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study
 

      Okay, more Scientific evidence that this medication works.  So why is the FDA preventing its use?  Could it be that politics is involved.  I certainly hope not. But these days no rationality or even survival instinct seems to remain in worldly people.  

[AH173]

1 hour ago, BenJepthah said:

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study
 

      Okay, more Scientific evidence that this medication works.  So why is the FDA preventing its use?  Could it be that politics is involved.  I certainly hope not. But these days no rationality or even survival instinct seems to remain in worldly people.  

Great. I thought there was a HUGE government stockpile of the stuff. Put it to use under wise doctors treatment. Probably cheaper that the $3500+ for remdisivir drug for a weeks usage/treatment.

[Margaret]

On 7/2/2020 at 10:04 AM, Bob said:

Yeah bathrooms are germ factories. I have to admit, I take my phone with me and I know I shouldn't but its become a habit. But I do wipe it with down with bleach wipes when I exit the bathroom, so I know its a bad practice. 

There is more germs in the average kitchen than in the bathroom, the bathroom gets cleaned more. Use alcohol or hydrogen peroxide 

[Old]

On 7/2/2020 at 7:11 AM, Bob said:

But bacteria being thrust into the air has never infected anyone with covid, or each and every American who has flushed a toilet over the last 90 days would have covid. But the positivity rate has remained at 10 percent nationwide, instead of the expected 90-100 percent because we've all flushed toilets with the lid open. 

I don't think we are worried about bacteria but the novel corona VIRUS is the problem. 

[Shawnster]

On 7/2/2020 at 10:11 AM, Bob said:

But bacteria being thrust into the air has never infected anyone with covid, or each and every American who has flushed a toilet over the last 90 days would have covid. 

One does not necessarily follow the other.   Or, in other words,  you probably do not have enough data to make this statement.

 

I'm not meaning the flushing comment.  I already mentioned how each flush is only your personal wastewater and not the wastewater of others.  No, I mean the virus being in the air.  Right now the governments are concentrating on contact tracing, but there are articles that discuss how Covid could be in the air for a time.  An infected person could cough in a grocery aisle.  Covid could be in the air as a result of that cough.  10 or 15 or 20 seconds later a second person could walk through that cloud of particles coughed up by the first person who was infected.   The result would be the second person inhaling Covid.   

 

So the virus thrust into the air could infect another person.  

[Allabord4Jah]

NPR News/July 1, 2020

 

U.N. Security Council Demands Cease-Fire In Conflict Areas, Due To COVID-19

July 1, 2020 • The Security Council has struggled for months to pass a resolution related to COVID-19 because of tussling between the U.S. and China over a reference to the World Health Organization.

 

[Tortuga]

I've heard that sitting is considered to be the new smoking, especially during the pandemic. I need to cut back, I'm up to two chairs a day...

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

This made for a good read...

NY Times:

 

"Coronavirus Cases in U.S. Are Rising, Even as Death Rates Trend Down

 

At least five U.S. states set single-day records on Friday as the country’s daily infection report passed 50,000 again.

...

Yet the virus appears to be killing fewer of the people it infects — a seemingly counterintuitive trend that might not last, experts said.

 

In April and May, Covid-19 led to as many as 3,000 deaths per day and claimed the lives of roughly 7 to 8 percent of Americans known to have been infected. Now, even though cases are rising in the majority of states, some of which are hitting single-day records, the number of daily deaths is closer to 600, and the death rate is less than 5 percent."

https://nyti.ms/3gjUO5C

 

 Meanwhile - Downunder has gone from Blue to Red.

Old (Downunder) Tone

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mykyl]

22 minutes ago, Maʹher-shalʹal-hash-baz said:

This made for a good read...

NY Times:

 

"Coronavirus Cases in U.S. Are Rising, Even as Death Rates Trend Down

 

At least five U.S. states set single-day records on Friday as the country’s daily infection report passed 50,000 again.

...

Yet the virus appears to be killing fewer of the people it infects — a seemingly counterintuitive trend that might not last, experts said.

 

In April and May, Covid-19 led to as many as 3,000 deaths per day and claimed the lives of roughly 7 to 8 percent of Americans known to have been infected. Now, even though cases are rising in the majority of states, some of which are hitting single-day records, the number of daily deaths is closer to 600, and the death rate is less than 5 percent."

https://nyti.ms/3gjUO5C

 

 Meanwhile - Downunder has gone from Blue to Red.

Old (Downunder) Tone

 

 

 

 

 

 

That article I posted pointed out that it takes a few weeks from the beginning of infection till possible death. Possibly around a month. Is that correct? We shall see.

[Shawnster]

So numbers reported are totally messed up according to The Atlantic magazine 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/cdc-and-states-are-misreporting-covid-19-test-data-pennsylvania-georgia-texas/611935/

 

The government’s disease-fighting agency is conflating viral and antibody tests, compromising a few crucial metrics that governors depend on to reopen their economies. Pennsylvania, Georgia, Texas, and other states are doing the same.

 

Viral tests, taken by nose swab or saliva sample, look for direct evidence of a coronavirus infection. They are considered the gold standard for diagnosing someone with COVID-19, the disease caused by the virus: State governments consider a positive viral test to be the only way to confirm a case of COVID-19. Antibody tests, by contrast, use blood samples to look for biological signals that a person has been exposed to the virus in the past.

 

A negative test result means something different for each test. If somebody tests negative on a viral test, a doctor can be relatively confident that they are not sick right now; if somebody tests negative on an antibody test, they have probably never been infected with or exposed to the coronavirus. (Or they may have been given a false result—antibody tests are notoriously less accurate on an individual level than viral tests.) The problem is that the CDC is clumping negative results from both tests together in its public reporting

[Tbs77]

That article I posted pointed out that it takes a few weeks from the beginning of infection till possible death. Possibly around a month. Is that correct? We shall see.

I think so. The deaths will most likely soar in the next few weeks due to “lag”. 200K by Labor Day in US?

[Tbs77]

Sorry if duplicate from previous post

Alabama officials warn of students holding coronavirus parties to intentionally get infected


A Tuscaloosa City Council member said, "We're constantly trying to do everything we can to slow the spread, while they're just having a damn party trying to spread it."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1232760