The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[Mykyl]

 

Im sure that those who don’t wish to be vaccinated would prefer to have their lives curtailed, at least in part, and be able to keep that as a choice.
They are not be being forced to accept the vaccine. They just have to accept those limitations for a while longer than others. 

 

[Old]

I see a lot of suffering and dying people on TV who now support the vaccine, even lamenting their decision to not get vaccinated. There must be two sides to this issue, Why don't we see news broadcasts of one on death's door saying "I am still glad I didn't get vaccinated", or speaking out from the ICU telling their loved ones to not get the vaccine?

 

[Lance]

Bob

I am not interested in getting into a debate on the efficacy  of a medical treatment.. not my pony not my circus.

 

1) Blood transfusions for Jehovah’s Witnesses is not a medical issue. It is is Biblical command “abstain from blood” so there is no choice there.. We don’t take blood because it is a poor medical treatment, we don’t take blood because of spiritual reasons. 

Immunization is a personal medical treatment that each individual can decide on. Just as going to a dentist or brushing your teeth is a personal decision.

 

2) You asked how the brothers in NY are going to handle this mandate from the government if they desire to partake in certain employment or  leisure activity. 

Obviously they would obey Caesars laws if they decided to engage in those activities…

Our decisions have a cost…. For some it may mean no employment in their chosen field, or no restaurants, shows, etc if they choose not to participate in the mandate..

 

3) As for the Bethel family we all know the direction that they decided to go in.. I don’t think the example that they invoked   is ambiguous.

 

4) We may trumpet the popular catch phrase “our rights” and even step into the area of our conscience being challenged. That is fine. We have to realize that every decision has a cost both in a positive and or negative way. We can in no way claim that this mandate is infringing on our worship to our creator. 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Lance

[Dages]

In France, if you want to have special pioneers or bethelites at home for a lunch, you have to be vaccinated.

They are and they'd refuse to go to your place if you aren't because they could get you infected and you could have bad consequences.

That's what I've been told tonight.

[Dustparticle]

5 minutes ago, Dages said:

In France, if you want to have special pioneers or bethelites at home for a lunch, you have to be vaccinated.

They are and they'd refuse to go to your place if you aren't because they could get you infected and you could have bad consequences.

That's what I've been told tonight.

I thought they were under lockdown until Nov 1.

[Lance]

Likewise with CO’s .. 

Basically all full time servants in Bethel’s.. LDC.. Special pioneers  etc .. 

[Shawnster]

55 minutes ago, Dustparticle said:

I thought they were under lockdown until Nov 1.

 

Fully vaccinated special full-time servants have had their restrictions or limitations modified and loosened for the time being.  This was brought out in either a recent Broadcast, update, or congregation monthly announcement.

 

1 hour ago, Old said:

I see a lot of suffering and dying people on TV who now support the vaccine, even lamenting their decision to not get vaccinated. There must be two sides to this issue, Why don't we see news broadcasts of one on death's door saying "I am still glad I didn't get vaccinated", or speaking out from the ICU telling their loved ones to not get the vaccine?

 

You apparently have missed the reports such as these:

 

The family of an unvaccinated woman who died from COVID-19 say they still refuse to get the jab, report says

 

Some patients ‘would rather die than get the vaccine,’ says Mississippi doctor

 

Huge Number of Hospital Workers Still Unvaccinated

 

COVID patient in Louisiana says he'd opt for hospitalization again over vaccine

 

Unvaccinated Man Hospitalized With COVID-19 Still Refuses To Get The Vaccine

 

 

 

It did take a little digging.  I found the most results by googling "hospitalized man refuses vaccine"  and "hospitalized woman refuses vaccine"

[runner92]

2 hours ago, Old said:

I see a lot of suffering and dying people on TV who now support the vaccine, even lamenting their decision to not get vaccinated. There must be two sides to this issue, Why don't we see news broadcasts of one on death's door saying "I am still glad I didn't get vaccinated", or speaking out from the ICU telling their loved ones to not get the vaccine?

 

 

 

I feel like this is propaganda. They always find the ones that say the same thing. It's just too much leaning to one side for this to be believable. I also question the amount of people that are getting the vaccine. They're pushing it too hard for them to have suddenly hit 70%. Wasn't that originally supposed to be herd immunity? 

Edited August 4, 2021 by runner92

[Tbs77]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/for-many-the-belated-realization-that-covid-will-be-a-long-war-sparks-anger-and-denial

For many, the belated realization that COVID will be ‘a long war’ sparks anger and denial

Health Aug 3, 2021 12:29 PM

Worldly people vaxxed are getting angry at unvaxxed….

From article:

This time it’s not just the mostly Republican anti-masking refrain rearing its defiant head (though fights over school mask mandates have returned with a vengeance). Coast to coast, and across the political spectrum, contempt for unvaccinated people is rising. “It’s the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down,” Alabama Governor Kay Ivey, a Republican, said on July 22, as her state, with one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country, reeled from a 530% rise in COVID-19 hospitalizations in just three weeks.

Among the vaccinated, there’s a sense that the freedoms they gained by getting the shots — travel, eating out, concerts, sports, school, seeing friends — are now being jeopardized by those who are still holding out.

Though this new flavor of outrage might look and sound like righteous indignation, mental health professionals say that what’s behind it is fear.


IMHO, This is why we aren’t going to the Kingdom Hall anytime soon….

Jesus ain’t having it! Until the New World…

Agape

[Lee49]

28 minutes ago, runner92 said:

They're pushing it too hard for them to have suddenly hit 70%.

https://news.yahoo.com/70-u-adults-taken-least-183809931.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

at least uno dose/70%

[runner92]

9 minutes ago, Lee49 said:

https://news.yahoo.com/70-u-adults-taken-least-183809931.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

at least uno dose/70%

 

So it's just the one shot? People are celebrating that why?

[Bob]

3 hours ago, Lance said:

Bob

I am not interested in getting into a debate on the efficacy  of a medical treatment.. not my pony not my circus.

 

1) Blood transfusions for Jehovah’s Witnesses is not a medical issue. It is is Biblical command “abstain from blood” so there is no choice there.. We don’t take blood because it is a poor medical treatment, we don’t take blood because of spiritual reasons. 

Immunization is a personal medical treatment that each individual can decide on. Just as going to a dentist or brushing your teeth is a personal decision.

 

2) You asked how the brothers in NY are going to handle this mandate from the government if they desire to partake in certain employment or  leisure activity. 

Obviously they would obey Caesars laws if they decided to engage in those activities…

Our decisions have a cost…. For some it may mean no employment in their chosen field, or no restaurants, shows, etc if they choose not to participate in the mandate..

 

3) As for the Bethel family we all know the direction that they decided to go in.. I don’t think the example that they invoked   is ambiguous.

 

4) We may trumpet the popular catch phrase “our rights” and even step into the area of our conscience being challenged. That is fine. We have to realize that every decision has a cost both in a positive and or negative way. We can in no way claim that this mandate is infringing on our worship to our creator. 

 

 

 

??

 

I also made no statement about the efficacy of a treatment. 
 

I compared forcing people to take one medicine with taking another medicine, my good friend. 
 

That’s it. And medicine is a conscious issue. From a legal standpoint, can the government force a rational-minded ADULT to take medicine and violate his conscious? 
 

Because the government could breaking the law of the land (violating the constitution).
 

Its a good question I think that shouldn’t be dismissed (not saying you are dismissing it). 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Bob

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, runner92 said:

They're pushing it too hard for them to have suddenly hit 70%.

Seems like there is contradictory information floating around 

 

This site that I follow, dated August 1st (site is updated almost daily) reports only 50% of US has had at least one shot.  https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/

 

Yet, NY Times and Newsweek report 70%.  That's a big discrepancy. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/02/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine

 

https://www.newsweek.com/us-hits-70-percent-vaccinated-one-dose-almost-month-after-bidens-target-1615364

 

 

[pnutts]

1 hour ago, runner92 said:

They're pushing it too hard for them to have suddenly hit 70%. Wasn't that originally supposed to be herd immunity

That was for the original virus. The Delta variant is a whole new animal err...  virus as for infections and death.

In my province they are touting under 200 new cases a day for the 2nd day ( civic holiday yesterday ) again after 4 days above 200, but testing was way lower and rate of few tested was 1.3 %. A couple of weeks ago it was 0.6 % of those tested.

over 80 % of Canadians have had 1 shot and almost 70 % 2 shots, however with the Delta on the loose some of Canada is entering a 4th wave.

Number in Canada varies according to province - Alberta has a lower vaccination rate but higher infection rate.

It is also political in Canada same as the US.

[Shawnster]

30 minutes ago, Bob said:

That’s it. And medicine is a conscious issue. From a legal standpoint, can the government force a rational-minded ADULT to take medicine and violate his conscious? 

Can they? Sure, why couldn't they? They are the government after all and governments tend to do what they want.  Of course, this might depend on the type of government.  Some governments do yield to their people. The more a government espouses true democracy, the less likely they would resort to such draconian measures. 

 

But, then again, all governments are capable of illegal and immoral acts. 

[Bob]

5 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Can they? Sure, why couldn't they? They are the government after all and governments tend to do what they want.  Of course, this might depend on the type of government.  Some governments do yield to their people. The more a government espouses true democracy, the less likely they would resort to such draconian measures. 

 

But, then again, all governments are capable of illegal and immoral acts. 

Yeah. I’m not trying to change the topic, but this is a interesting rabbit-hole. 

 

Just an example: When we hear the “Obey Caesar's law” point, the organization itself does prioritize its legal constitutional rights over the demands of the government.

 

In certain court cases, judges have illegally compelled the organization to do something that violates its constitutional rights. And we refused.

 

So I’m not certain the organization would say to obey vaccine mandates when it violates your human rights to choose what medicine you take. 
 

It’s really an interesting issue. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Bob

[Lance]

Sigh…. 😔Around….around we go.. 

Do whatever your heart desires. Go to court, don’t go to court. Exercise your rights or don’t..Vaccinate or don’t..  isolate from all public places  and people or don’t..that is purely up to you.

That is just fine …we all carry our own load

 

[Bob]

1 minute ago, Lance said:

Sigh…. 😔Around….around we go.. 

Do whatever your heart desires. Go to court, don’t go to court. Exercise your rights or don’t..Vaccinate or don’t..  isolate from all public places  and people or don’t..that is purely up to you.

That is just fine …we all carry our own load

 

I feel you as well. 

[Shawnster]

26 minutes ago, Bob said:

Yeah. I’m not trying to change the topic, but this is a interesting rabbit-hole. 

Yeah, well, I have no interest in drifting too much further.  

 

Bob, none of us are here to argue or debate. We have received new direction from this year's convention.  

 

Quote

 

Remember, there are all kinds of negative talk flying around in this forum; you don’t know who’s behind it. And here’s what it says at Romans 16:17: “Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.”

 

...

 

But if you get involved in a forum, you might not know whether you’re walking with wise persons or not — at least not at first. So be careful. If the conversation turns negative, get out.

 

 

 

That's what we're trying to implement here on JWTalk.net.  Being contrary for the sake of being contrary might be fun and all but being disagreeable has a way of bringing the negativity.  

Edited August 4, 2021 by Shawnster

[Bob]

52 minutes ago, pnutts said:

That was for the original virus. The Delta variant is a whole new animal err...  virus as for infections and death.

In my province they are touting under 200 new cases a day for the 2nd day ( civic holiday yesterday ) again after 4 days above 200, but testing was way lower and rate of few tested was 1.3 %. A couple of weeks ago it was 0.6 % of those tested.

over 80 % of Canadians have had 1 shot and almost 70 % 2 shots, however with the Delta on the loose some of Canada is entering a 4th wave.

Number in Canada varies according to province - Alberta has a lower vaccination rate but higher infection rate.

It is also political in Canada same as the US.

The vaccine still is effective against the Delta variant. 
 

“COVID-19 vaccines are effective against severe disease and death from variants of the virus that causes COVID-19 currently circulating in the United States, including the Delta variant.”

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html

 

It’s logical to be concerned, but the “delta” isn’t a different animal as far as the current vaccines go. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Bob

[pnutts]

4 minutes ago, Bob said:

It’s logical to be concerned, but the “delta” isn’t a different animal as far as the current vaccines go. 

Just a bit less effective with Delta. ( One "expert" mentioned it is a 'different virus', but very closely related )  But some protection is better than none. This is from someone ( me ) who hasn't had a vaccine of any sort in decades.

[Bob]

1 minute ago, pnutts said:

Just a bit less effective with Delta. ( One "expert" mentioned it is a 'different virus', but very closely related )  But some protection is better than none. This is from someone ( me ) who hasn't had a vaccine of any sort in decades.

Yeah understood…

[Shawnster]

11 minutes ago, pnutts said:

Just a bit less effective with Delta

I think the jury is still out on that.  I've heard the current vaccine is effective and I've also heard they think a third booster might be needed.  Seems too early for a consensus. 

[On the huh]

The August announcements and reminders says that Bethel and special full time servants are still in lockdown until November 1st.  No mention of restrictions lifted for those vaccinated. Rather we should keep them in our prayers.

This may be just for the Britain branch.

 

[Bob]

8 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Yeah, well, I have no interest in drifting too much further.  

 

Bob, none of us are here to argue or debate. We have received new direction from this year's convention.  

Lol neither am I. Which is why I chose to leave it after brother Lance’s last reply!!

Edited August 4, 2021 by Bob