Watchtower - study edition - SEPTEMBER 2022

[Dustparticle]

2 Questions From Readers articles give us at least 4 clarifications. Ever since the year 2000, there have been at least 90 clarifications so far. It getting close to a 100. Can you image telling the friends who died prior to 2000 about this?

[Abigail]

3 minutes ago, Dustparticle said:

2 Questions From Readers articles give us at least 4 clarifications. Ever since the year 2000, there have been at least 90 clarifications so far. It getting close to a 100. Can you image telling the friends who died prior to 2000 about this?

I think we will all need refresher training!!

[Hinata]

What were the clarifications made in the article Questions From Readers—”Who will be resurrected on earth, and what type of resurrection will they experience?”

 

[Br. Ice]

6 minutes ago, Hinata said:

What were the clarifications made in the article Questions From Readers—”Who will be resurrected on earth, and what type of resurrection will they experience?”

 

Could you please share a link to that article? I couldn't find it. Ty

[Hinata]

2 minutes ago, Br. Ice said:

Could you please share a link to that article? I couldn't find it. Ty

 

THE WATCHTOWER—STUDY EDITION

Questions From Readers—September 2022

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2022564&srcid=share

 

From what I can understand, the explanations given in this article seems to be exactly the same as how we used to understand previously.

 

We always understood Acts 24:15 to mean that there will be a resurrection of righteous people — servants of Jehovah — and unrighteous people — people who didn’t have opportunity to serve Jehovah and getting another chance.

 

So I’m wondering what is the “clarifications” in this article, or if there even is any.

 

[Dustparticle]

5 minutes ago, Hinata said:

 

THE WATCHTOWER—STUDY EDITION

Questions From Readers—September 2022

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2022564&srcid=share

 

From what I can understand, the explanations given in this article seems to be exactly the same as how we used to understand previously.

 

We always understood Acts 24:15 to mean that there will be a resurrection of righteous people — servants of Jehovah — and unrighteous people — people who didn’t have opportunity to serve Jehovah and getting another chance.

 

So I’m wondering what is the “clarifications” in this article, or if there even is any.

 

Read Previews on Pages 14&20 and Questions From Readers sums it up. Also, Questions From Readers on Apostle Paul is clarification too.

[Hinata]

9 minutes ago, Dustparticle said:

Read Previews on Pages 14&20 and Questions From Readers sums it up. Also, Questions From Readers on Apostle Paul is clarification too.

 

Thank you. The clarifications that were made on John 5:29 is on article 39, par. 13-16 and Daniel 12:2, 3 on article 40, par. 6-7. Acts 24:15 seems to remain the same.

 

[Dustparticle]

14 minutes ago, Hinata said:

 

Thank you. The clarifications that were made on John 5:29 is on article 39, par. 13-16 and Daniel 12:2, 3 on article 40, par. 6-7. Acts 24:15 seems to remain the same.

 

If I'm right, we cannot connect John 5:28 & 29 with Revelation 20:12 & 13 when John 5:28 & 29 is past tense  and Revelation 20:12 & 13 is in the future.

[jwhess]

The Watchtower articles on the resurrection are a printed version of the talks from the Annual Meeting (video from January 2022).  There were several clarifications and adjustments in our thinking.  An example is the scripture about "those who practice vile things".  We now know that these "vile things" were done before the individuals death.  The explanation helps us realize that no "vile things" will be done in the New World.  As a side point, it helps us realize that their being "acquitted from sin" by their death does not give any credit in the future.  It is a past cancellation of previous sins...not a righteous standing at resurrection.  They are not in the "Book of Life".

 

The adjustments in Daniel about the "everlasting condemnation" is a truly remarkable clarification.  More like 180 reversal.  It applies to Earthly subjects not the anointed.  It involves a Literal resurrection not a symbolic one.  It is yet future not a review of the early 20th century.  It relates to a condemnation of the loss of an everlasting earthly future not the removal from the opportunity of immortality.

 

The comparison of which verses coincide and which are immediate and which are at the end of 1000 years and who is in and who is not in the "Book of Life" are well worth reviewing and confirming the4 adjustments in our minds and hearts.

 

The Questions From Readers is like a brief summary of the preceding two articles.  The second QFR is on a different subject.  It clarifies an expression Paul made.  It changes an idea we had about its meaning but rather that explain  "exactly" how it should be viewed in the future, it offers alternative thoughts.  Maybe not exactly a "clarification" but a redirection to possible alternative meanings.

[Sofia]

Im super excited about the explanation on Daniel chapter 12!

New understandings... verses 1-4 ; 8-10 and 13 were considered.

Now... Im expecting a new understanding (?) on verses 5-7 and 11-12 (??)

Can I expect that ? perhaps on the next AM? or will the GB still keep the same understanding?

 

Im so thrilled with anticipation!!

[James the Less]

1 hour ago, Sofia said:

Now... Im expecting a new understanding (?) on verses 5-7 and 11-12 (??)

Can I expect that ? perhaps on the next AM? or will the GB still keep the same understanding?

I am expecting the same… I certainly hope so!

[Br. Ice]

2 hours ago, Sofia said:

11-12 (??)

These verses are certainly thought-provoking. I hope the light has gotten brighter.

[Doug]

Regarding 1 Corinthians 15:23 "But each one in his own proper order" , the article says "Perhaps many of our loved ones will be among those restored to life early on."

Footnote:  "The resurrection may start with those who died faithful during the last days and then may proceed backwards, generation by generation. If this proves to be the case, each generation will have the opportunity to welcome back those whom they had known personally".

 

My understanding had been that those who had been believers (Moses, Abraham, Job etc) would be included in the early resurrection until all believers were restored to life.  Only then would the unrighteous be resurrected.

 

This idea may have been assuming the more people available to help educate the unrighteous the better.  As we know, the unrighteous will far outnumber the righteous.

 

The article, certainly not dogmatic about it, suggests it will be more of a sequential arrangement;  the ones who died recently would be restored first and working backwards. So, then, the unrighteous would be restored early as well.  The benefit being that, as people are resurrected and wonder what the heck is going on,

Oh!  there's my grocer or my mechanic, I'll ask him.

 

Makes sense.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Doug

[jwhess]

Over the years, our organization has agreed that the Earthly Resurrection will be conducted in an organized, incremental manner.  We have long held to the idea that it basically would be in reverse order of the time of death (more or less).  The scripture in 1 Corinthians uses the term…

(1 Corinthians 15:23) . . .But each one in his own proper order. . .

 

Firstly, this is a scripture about the anointed. So we are adapting it to the earthly resurrection.  We used the term “rank” in the NWT Bible until our latest version.  Since we are talking about the possibility of being appointed “Princes” the idea of rank is brought forward.

 

We have no scripture that definitely describes the condition and situation in those future days.  In the past (as the 1964 Watchtower quoted) we used terms or thoughts like “logical, needed, reasonable, argues” and so on.  No scripture cited but human logic is applied.

 

We have not completely abandoned these ideas but we are much more cautious by using terms like “perhaps, maybe” or framing the idea as a potential question as we see in the 2017 Watchtower quotation.  Old ideas die hard.  And some of the logic presented may be reasonable.  We want to be there to witness it ourselves.

 

*** w64 12/1 p. 723 pars. 29-30 Out of the Tombs to a “Resurrection of Life” ***

²⁹ In order to appoint his faithful forefathers as “princes in all the earth” under his heavenly kingdom, Jesus Christ will have to resurrect them from the memorial tombs. If the other people on earth are to get the benefit of the princely rule of Christ’s faithful forefathers during his thousand-year reign, such forefathers need to be resurrected early during his reign, even though they died thousands of years ago. If the reigning King Jesus Christ restricted the appointment of princes in all the earth to only the godly forefathers of his, there would not be many such princes in all the earth. Other ancient men were equally faithful among that “so great a cloud of witnesses.” So it is only reasonable that such faithful witnesses would likewise be considered worthy to be appointed as princes in various parts of the earth.

³⁰ Their appointment to princely office argues that they would be resurrected earlier than the other earthly subjects of God’s kingdom. This suggests that order and rank will be observed in the earthly resurrection. That being so, then the earthly dead will not be given up by Hades and by the sea all at one time, without making arrangements beforehand to care for the returning dead.

 

*** w17 December p. 12 par. 20 “I Have Hope Toward God” ***

²⁰ … We can trust that the earthly resurrection will likewise proceed in an orderly manner. That is an intriguing prospect. Will those who died recently be raised near the start of Christ’s Thousand Year Reign and be welcomed by loved ones who know them? Will faithful men of old with leadership abilities come back early to help organize God’s people in the new world? What about people who never served Jehovah? When and where will they be raised? Many questions could be asked. But, frankly, is there any real need to ponder those issues now? Is it not better just to wait and see? We can trust that it will be thrilling to observe personally how Jehovah handles those matters.

 

 

[Sofia]

That´s why the faithfull Slave is so discreet

[Doug]

11 hours ago, jwhess said:

Over the years, our organization has agreed that the Earthly Resurrection will be conducted in an organized, incremental manner.  We have long held to the idea that it basically would be in reverse order of the time of death (more or less).  The scripture in 1 Corinthians uses the term…

(1 Corinthians 15:23) . . .But each one in his own proper order. . .

 

 So we are adapting it to the earthly resurrection.  

 

   No scripture cited but human logic is applied.

 

We have not completely abandoned these ideas but we are much more cautious by using terms like “perhaps, maybe” or framing the idea as a potential question as we see in the 2017 Watchtower quotation.  Old ideas die hard.  And some of the logic presented may be reasonable.  We want to be there to witness it ourselves.

 

Yes, the intriguing thing is that the scriptures do not shed much light on the plan.  We have two scenarios - (1) Each individual getting their turn working backwards , or , (2) the faithful first for organizational purposes. 

Both scenarios are plausible.

 

Today there are more serving Jehovah than at any time in mankind's history.  Assuming the Great Crowd will be around 9 million , and assuming the resurrection is sequential with both the righteous and unrighteous restored to life in the reverse order of when they had lived;  It would not be long until the righteous were vastly outnumbered by the unrighteous and their former personalities. Some of these may well cause trouble, for up to 100 years (pg. 17 par 12).

 

These articles tell me we are so close to the GT.  The FDS is already training us for the great educational work that is coming up!    

[jwhess]

1 hour ago, Doug said:

Yes, the intriguing thing is that the scriptures do not shed much light on the plan.  We have two scenarios - (1) Each individual getting their turn working backwards , or , (2) the faithful first for organizational purposes. 

Both scenarios are plausible.

 

Today there are more serving Jehovah than at any time in mankind's history.  Assuming the Great Crowd will be around 9 million , and assuming the resurrection is sequential with both the righteous and unrighteous restored to life in the reverse order of when they had lived;  It would not be long until the righteous were vastly outnumbered by the unrighteous and their former personalities. Some of these may well cause trouble, for up to 100 years (pg. 17 par 12).

 

These articles tell me we are so close to the GT.  The FDS is already training us for the great educational work that is coming up!    

Don't forget our previously publised explanation.  It was first proposed in the Aid Book and is now revised in the Insight Book.  
The numbers are lower (only suggesting 6 million Great Crowd surviving).  They show the righteous out numbering the unrighteous by a rate of 33 to 1 at all times.  Never a danger.

 

*** it-2 p. 793 Resurrection ***

How would it be possible in 1,000 years to resurrect and educate the billions now in the grave?

Nevertheless, an illustration reveals what a simple, practical thing Jehovah has in mind for mankind. Not to prophesy, but merely for the purpose of illustration, let us assume that those who compose the “great crowd” of righteous persons who “come out of the great tribulation” on this system of things alive (Re 7:9, 14) number about 6,000,000 (about 1/1000 of earth’s present population). Then if, after allowing, say, 100 years spent in their training and in ‘subduing’ a portion of the earth (Ge 1:28), God purposes to bring back three percent of this number, this would mean that each newly arrived person would be looked after by 33 trained ones. Since a yearly increase of three percent, compounded, doubles the number about every 24 years, the entire 20 billion (20,000,000,000) could be resurrected before 400 years of Christ’s Thousand Year Reign had elapsed, giving ample time for training and judging the resurrected ones without disrupting harmony and order on earth. Thus God, with his almighty power and wisdom, is able to bring his purpose to a glorious conclusion fully within the framework of the laws and arrangements he has made for mankind from the beginning, with the added undeserved kindness of the resurrection.—Ro 11:33-36.

 

[Doug]

On 6/27/2022 at 11:52 AM, jwhess said:

Don't forget our previously published explanation.  It was first proposed in the Aid Book and is now revised in the Insight Book.  
The numbers are lower (only suggesting 6 million Great Crowd surviving).  They show the righteous out numbering the unrighteous by a rate of 33 to 1 at all times.  Never a danger.

 

*** it-2 p. 793 Resurrection ***

How would it be possible in 1,000 years to resurrect and educate the billions now in the grave?

Nevertheless, an illustration reveals what a simple, practical thing Jehovah has in mind for mankind. Not to prophesy, but merely for the purpose of illustration, let us assume that those who compose the “great crowd” of righteous persons who “come out of the great tribulation” on this system of things alive (Re 7:9, 14) number about 6,000,000 (about 1/1000 of earth’s present population). Then if, after allowing, say, 100 years spent in their training and in ‘subduing’ a portion of the earth (Ge 1:28), God purposes to bring back three percent of this number, this would mean that each newly arrived person would be looked after by 33 trained ones. Since a yearly increase of three percent, compounded, doubles the number about every 24 years, the entire 20 billion (20,000,000,000) could be resurrected before 400 years of Christ’s Thousand Year Reign had elapsed, giving ample time for training and judging the resurrected ones without disrupting harmony and order on earth. Thus God, with his almighty power and wisdom, is able to bring his purpose to a glorious conclusion fully within the framework of the laws and arrangements he has made for mankind from the beginning, with the added undeserved kindness of the resurrection.—Ro 11:33-36.

 

Wonderful reference John.   So, me and my OCD persona did the math.  It holds up.  The population would reach about 20 billion by the year 400 , and that's with the resurrection not even beginning until 100 years into the NW.

 

It looks quite sustainable / manageable for at least the first 50 years.  Then it really picks up speed.  Between 50 years and 96 years the pace goes up to 3,000,000 per year.  Towards the conclusion, in the last 24 years, it's 32,000,000 PER MONTH.

 

But, this is only one possible schedule.  And this one has the resurrection completed pretty early , less than halfway through the 1,000 years.

 

The part about 'subduing' a portion of the earth is interesting.  There has never been 20 billion people living at the same time , not even close to 20.  So, with everything else going on, this entire earth will need to be habitable by year 400.

[hatcheckgirl]

So would children be born after that, maybe?  Cause that would bump up the numbers and if you are rearing your own children you are less available to study with newly resurrected ones.

 

But then again, once those children are reared, they add to the number who will study with them.

 

Mind boggling!  So, I'll just keep it simple for me and try to endure now so as to be there then 😁

[Thomas Walker]

If anything will 'drag it out', it'll be all the other stuff that needs to get done. Homes, clothing, food supply... These are all things that have to be in place before they're returned.

[New World Explorer]

1 hour ago, Thomas Walker said:

If anything will 'drag it out', it'll be all the other stuff that needs to get done. Homes, clothing, food supply.

This aspect always intrigued me. 

Because everybody has different preferences and style..

Perhaps resurrected ones will be accommodated in temporary houses or apartments while they choose the type of house to build? Once their "perfect" house is completed they can vacate temporary accommodation. 

Pictures below portray my imperfect idea about temporary accommodation. 

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

Wonderful reference John.   So, me and my OCD persona did the math...

I posted a spreadsheet calculating the timing (with some variables) in the other thread on resurrection.
However, I have now realised I need to factor in one more 'limiting' variable..

Old (Downunder) Tone

[Dages]

45 minutes ago, ➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone said:

in one more 'limiting' variable..
 

 

that is... ?

[jwhess]

maybe the possible birthrate of paired resurrected ones?

[Doug]

4 hours ago, ➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone said:

I posted a spreadsheet calculating the timing (with some variables) in the other thread on resurrection.
However, I have now realised I need to factor in one more 'limiting' variable..
 

 

I went ahead and started with 9,000,000.  The reference John provided had us at 6M.

 

To highlight that last 24 years further;  That's 288 months with 32,000,000 coming back each month.

 

Also caused me to wonder , how fast can Jesus resurrect?   Does he have any kind of production limit?  Do the laws of physics somehow apply?  What amount of time would be required to restore an individuals entire memory of their life experiences?

Edited July 5, 2022 by Doug