JW Broadcast - January 2024

[Timl1980]

9 minutes ago, KF7 said:

Adam and Eve were perfect. They were also victims of the cunning serpent. Was the temptation by Satan a planned event by Jehovah?  No!  Was Satan already misbehaving on earth prior to creation of Adam and Eve? We don’t know. It was easy to obey the command about the tree in the center of the garden until the devil coerced and lied to Eve.  Was there any warning about being on gaurd against a rogue spirt creature who would lie and manipulate to get humans to partake of the forbidden fruit?

 

we don’t know!  Was Satan part of Jehovahs plan? No!   Can we dogmatically say that Adam and Eve have no chance of being resurrected?  Are they ever spoken of as having gone to Gehenna?

 

we really don’t know do we? 

This article answers that question clearly...Adam and Eve could not benefit from the ransom sacrifice...period.

 

A Corresponding Ransom for All — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY (jw.org)

 

 

3, 14. (a) Do Adam and Eve benefit from the ransom? Explain. (b) How does the ransom benefit Adam’s descendants? Illustrate.

13 Neither Adam nor Eve, however, benefit from the ransom. The Mosaic Law contained this principle: “You must take no ransom for the soul of a murderer who is deserving to die.” (Numbers 35:31) Adam was not deceived, so his sin was willful, deliberate. (1 Timothy 2:14) It amounted to the murder of his offspring, for they now inherited his imperfection, thus coming under sentence of death. Clearly, Adam deserved to die, for as a perfect man, he had willfully chosen to disobey God’s law. It would have been contrary to Jehovah’s righteous principles for him to apply the ransom in Adam’s behalf. Paying the wage for Adam’s sin, however, does provide for the nullifying of the death sentence upon Adam’s offspring! (Romans 5:16) In a legal sense, the destructive power of sin is cut off right at its source. The ransomer ‘tastes death for every man,’ bearing the consequences of sin for all of Adam’s children.—Hebrews 2:9; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24.

14 To illustrate: Imagine a large factory with hundreds of employees. A dishonest factory manager bankrupts the business; the factory closes its doors. Hundreds are now out of work and unable to pay their bills. Their marriage mates, children, and, yes, creditors all suffer because of that one man’s corruption! Then along comes a wealthy benefactor who pays off the company’s debt and reopens the factory. The cancellation of that one debt, in turn, brings full relief to the many employees, their families, and the creditors. But does the original manager get to share in the new prosperity? No, he is in prison and thus permanently out of his job! Similarly, the cancellation of Adam’s one debt brings benefits to millions of his descendants—but not to Adam.

[carlos]

12 minutes ago, KF7 said:

we really don’t know do we? 

 

Due to our imperfection we sometimes make mistakes. But Adam and Eve were perfect. A perfect individual doesn't make mistakes due to weakness. They choose what they want to do. Adam and Eve chose to rebel against Jehovah. Jehovah's law said "You must take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is deserving to die" (Numbers 35:31).

 

At Luke 11:50 Jesus mentioned Abel as "the founding of the world". Jesus didn't include Adam or Eve. It's as if they had never existed. They don't count for the purpose of the resurrection.

 

 

[Tortuga]

It's tempting to take "We don't know" and apply it to everything we know, but some things in the Bible are very clear..

[KF7]

12 minutes ago, Friend of Peace said:

Their case Kris was different from the one’s whom do inherit imperfection. The w05 5/1 16 states:

 

“Their fall into sin was deliberate. Before them was either everlasting life or death. They disobeyed God and sided with Satan. When they died, they had no prospect of benefiting from Christ’s ransom sacrifice. Rather, they went to Gehenna.”

 

So the clarified understanding at the AGM certainly would apply to those such as the people in Sodom, those in Noah’s Day, Korah and the rebels who joined him but not Adam and Eve. They were not sinners when they were created, we are. 

I was under the impression that my identity would be Kf7.    Adam and Eve were free moral agents who were not created with the thought that a lying wicked rouge spirit creature was prowling around seeking to entice them into sin. Jehovah always warns before bringing calamity.  Did Jehovah tell the first humans about this wicked spirit creature? We don’t know. Did the broadcast dogmatically state that A&E would not be resurected? No

[KF7]

1 hour ago, Friend of Peace said:

Their case Kris was different from the one’s whom do inherit imperfection. The w05 5/1 16 states:

 

“Their fall into sin was deliberate. Before them was either everlasting life or death. They disobeyed God and sided with Satan. When they died, they had no prospect of benefiting from Christ’s ransom sacrifice. Rather, they went to Gehenna.”

 

So the clarified understanding at the AGM certainly would apply to those such as the people in Sodom, those in Noah’s Day, Korah and the rebels who joined him but not Adam and Eve. They were not sinners when they were created, we are. 

Excellent point A&E were direct creation of God. Not progeny of fallen humans. Their rebellion is like Satans rebellion their sin is all on them.   

[Tortuga]

2 hours ago, KF7 said:

I was under the impression that my identity would be Kf7.    Adam and Eve were free moral agents who were not created with the thought that a lying wicked rouge spirit creature was prowling around seeking to entice them into sin. Jehovah always warns before bringing calamity.  Did Jehovah tell the first humans about this wicked spirit creature? We don’t know. Did the broadcast dogmatically state that A&E would not be resurected? No

Jehovah told Adam 'Do not eat from the tree or you will DIE' Period.

He didn't need to warn him about snakes, monkeys' kittens or anything else trying to tempt him. He didn't need to be warned that the fruit may look and smell delicious. He didn't need to warn him that the fruit would sing in the moonlight. In other words, He didn't need to warn him about every possible temptation.

 

Adam was told to not eat from the tree or he will die. Period. Duly warned.

 

If Adam is resurrected that means he has always lived in Jehovah's memory, doesn't it?

If Adam and everyone that has ever lived will be resurrected, then why would Jesus need to come to earth as a perfect man?

 

Edited January 5 by Tortuga

[Sofia]

The first loyal witness mentioned in Hebrews chapter 11 is Abel, not Adam.

[KF7]

16 hours ago, Tortuga said:

If Adam is resurrected that means he has always lived in Jehovah's memory, doesn't it?

 

Being alive in Jehovahs memory does not mean an individual is not truly dead. The sentence of death would still have been carried out.   
 

but it is current thinking that A&E are irredeemable having been direct creation of Jehovah like Angels who rebelled their sin is not forgivable.

 

Edited January 6 by Brother_Bliss
Took what I think it Kris' comments and moved them out of the Quote box

[bagwell1987]

Curious (as per usual) I just listened to part 2 again, has anyone went back and counted how many times they used the word 'dogmatic? I'd be curious. Did you know there are 28 similar words you could use in comparison to dogmatic? 28! But they used dogmatic every time. 

 

Def: inclined to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true

[Loopy]

My transcript says 10 times they said “dogmatic”

[bagwell1987]

7 minutes ago, Loopy said:

My transcript says 10 times they said “dogmatic”

Ohhhh nice Linda, good one. That's quite a few.

[Loopy]

22 minutes ago, bagwell1987 said:

Ohhhh nice Linda, good one. That's quite a few.

I think they just wanted to make sure we got the point 😁

[Fauzia]

I love the new understanding . You know a disfellowship brother died and I was being really dogmatic I cried very much because I wish he could have come back to serve Jehovah. The new understanding made me stop worrying too much. Jehovah is the insight of the heart ❤️

[Sister Susie]

Hello friends,  Are there transcripts for Bro Splane's and Bro Jackson's talk.  I need to read it to digest it's full content.  Thank you.  Love you all.

[daydream]

18 minutes ago, Sister Susie said:

Bro Splane's and Bro Jackson's talk

The transcript for the 2023 Annual Meeting - Part 2 (presented as part of the January 2024 JW Broadcast)

“Trust in the Merciful ‘Judge of All the Earth’” Part One................. David Splane

“Trust in the Merciful ‘Judge of All the Earth’” Part Two................. Geoffrey Jackson

Edited March 7 by Imagine