2024 Governing Body Update #2

[Exter]

9 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

If the president and business men etc...all stopped wearing ties....so would we.   True? 

You’re talking about GB just decides where and when we wear what the world wears.

 

Notice they alway qualify what to wear with:  if that is the standard of dress in that land. (in the world).  We don’t start the trends..... the world does.

Dear Brother, in Germany give it the same situation. a lot of prominent person: from Government to Moderator wear not more ties. It is near Standard in our Country. When we do the same, so what?

[Dages]

They waited for the GB too  

[Andrey]

2024 Governing Body Update #2

 

This is a literal translation of the video message, from English into Russian. Use a translator so you can understand.

 

Обращение Руководящего совета № 2 (2024 год).

 

Руководящий совет решил, что сёстры при желании, могут носить брюки, когда участвуют в служении, а также когда они посещают встречи собрания и конгрессы. При этом, сестре не следует одеваться неформально. Брюки должны быть скромными, опрятными и соответствовать случаю. Если сестра участвует в пункте программы, ей следует надеть юбку или платье, если это принято там, где она живёт. И конечно, сестра может надеть платье или юбку, даже если она не участвует в программе.

 

Кроме того, братья при желании, могут не надевать галстук или пиджак, когда участвуют в служении, а также когда посещают встречи собрания или конгрессы. Если брат решает не надевать пиджак или галстук, ему важно помнить, что его одежда должна быть скромной, опрятной и соответствовать случаю, не неформальной. Если брат участвует в программе, ему следует надеть пиджак и галстук, если это принято там, где он живёт. Конечно, брат может решить надет пиджак и галстук, даже если он не участвует в программе.

 

Посещая Вефиль, брату нужно быть в пиджаке и галстуке, а сестре в платье или юбке, если это принято там, где они живут.

 

This is a translation of a text from Russian into English using the Deepl program. I use this program to communicate on the forum JWTalk.

 

The Governing Board has decided that the sisters, if they wish, may wear pants when they participate in ministry and when they attend assembly meetings and congresses. That being said, the sister should not dress casually. Pants should be modest, neat and appropriate for the occasion. If a sister is participating in a program item, she should wear a skirt or dress if that is customary where she lives. And of course, a sister can wear a dress or skirt even if she is not in the program. 

 

In addition, brethren, if they wish, may not wear a tie or jacket when participating in ministry or when attending caucus meetings or conventions. If a brother chooses not to wear a jacket or tie, it is important for him to remember that his clothing should be modest, neat and appropriate for the occasion, not informal. If a brother is in the program, he should wear a jacket and tie if that is customary where he lives. Of course, a brother can decide to wear a jacket and tie even if he is not in the program. 

 

When visiting Bethel, the brother should be in a jacket and tie and the sister in a dress or skirt, if that is customary where they live.

 

In the first case, this guidance is given: If a sister is participating in a program item, she should wear a skirt or dress if that is customary where she lives. In the second case, this guidance is given: If a brother is in the program, he should wear a jacket and tie if that is customary where he lives. In both of these cases, the brothers make one point: program participants. So, participation in the program, both brothers and sisters, implies direct participation on the stage.

 

The question then becomes whether brothers and sisters are part of the program when serving behind the video/audio equipment, serving on stage, serving with microphones for those giving commentary, serving in the lobby, checkroom, serving at the entrance to the Kingdom Hall, serving in the parking lot, etc. 

 

I thought: a participant in the meal at the Commemorative Supper of the death of Jesus Christ? Participant means one who partakes of the bread and wine. And if the brothers and sisters serving the bread and wine are participants in the meal? Most likely they would be categorized as attendants, not participants in the meal.

 

When there are holiday concerts, forums, political elections, the speakers on stage must comply with the established rules, according to the dress code. What about those who will serve these people, the technical staff? Do they have to comply with such dress code rules for participants on stage? Probably not, unless otherwise specified in the rules.

 

Another point is that brethren may not wear a tie or jacket when participating in the preaching ministry if they wish. So, when a brother is scheduled to meet with a group for a preaching ministry, it can be considered as participating in a preaching ministry and the tie and jacket can be left off, no matter where the meeting is held. Again, the caveat is if it is customary where you live.

 

There's another point: in both cases it says if it's accepted where she lives. Of course, the brethren have given us instructions or guidelines on how to use jackets, ties, and pants. The brothers also pointed out if it was customary where he/she lived. It turns out that local councils of elders, can set rules for wearing jackets, ties and pants as is customary in their area. 

[Pjdriver]

4 hours ago, Exter said:

Dear Brother, in Germany give it the same situation. a lot of prominent person: from Government to Moderator wear not more ties. It is near Standard in our Country. When we do the same, so what?

And now we are heading in that direction. I’m not complaining....I’m happy about.   

Just sayin that’s the way it works for the most part. When in Rome do as the Romans. Paul wasn’t talking about their immoral conduct. 

Edited April 3 by Pjdriver

[carlos]

14 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

If the president and business men etc...all stopped wearing ties....so would we.   True? 

You’re talking about GB just decides where and when we wear what the world wears.

 

Burt, maybe I am not expressing myself correctly. If the elders in your congregation decide that the standard of dress on the platform is a jacket and a tie, you will not be allowed to give a talk without a jacket and a tie, no matter what the president wears.

 

Yesterday we had three sisters who had demos at the meeting come with trousers. One was able to change clothes with another sister who had a skirt. The other two had to be replaced by someone else.

 

It's not you or I who decide what the standard is. It's the body of elders. Unless they receive more specific info from the branch, of course.

[blue-jay]

I think what they meant with "standard of dress in that land" means what's standard in that country/land, not what a local BOE decides. 

For example in India, the kind of pants that the sisters wear. The announcements doesn't mean that those sisters all of a sudden have to wear skirts/dresses when having a part.

Same with the shirts that brothers in some African countries wear for example. They don't all of a sudden have to wear ties when having a part. 

But in the US, for example, brothers wear ties and jackets and sisters wear skirts/dresses, because that's the standard of dress in that country. 

[DancesWithWife]

I just asked Bing AI Copilot:

What is considered the business dress standard in the United States for men and women?

 

Copilot

Certainly! Let’s explore the business dress standards in the United States for both men and women:

1. Business Attire for Men:

   • Business Formal (Traditional):
     • This is the most formal dress code. It typically includes:
       • Dark suits (black, gray, or navy).
       • Dress shirts.
       • Silk ties.
       • Cufflinks.
       • Pocket squares.
       • Dress shoes (closed-toe).
   • Business Professional:
     • A more standard, formal style that was common in many offices.
     • It includes well-fitted suits, dress shirts, and professional accessories.

2. Business Attire for Women:

   • Business Formal (Traditional):
     • Women should wear:
       • Suits.
       • Dresses.
       • Skirts.
     • Pair these with appropriate accessories.
   • Business Casual:
     • A widely used and loosely defined dress code.
     • Combines professional pieces with relaxed, informal wear:
       • Blazers.
       • Dress shirts.
       • Slacks.
       • Skirts.
   • Smart Casual:
     • A stylish twist on casual business attire.
     • Includes trendy pieces while maintaining a clean, professional look:
       • Blazers.
       • Sports jackets.
       • Button-down shirts.
       • Dresses.
       • Sweaters.
       • Trousers.
       • Khakis.
       • Skirts.
       • Blouses.
       • Heels.
       • Flats.
       • Clean sneakers.
       • Jewelry.
       • Belts.
       • Scarves.

Remember that the appropriate dress code can vary based on the specific workplace, industry, and the context of the situation. It’s essential to observe what others wear and adapt accordingly.

[DancesWithWife]

Okay I changed the question for attending religious services. Here is what the AI Copilot came up with:

 

What is considered appropriate clothing for attending religous services in the United States for men and women

 

Copilot

Certainly! Let’s explore the guidelines for appropriate clothing when attending religious services in the United States:

1. For Men:

   • Traditional Church Settings:
     • Men are often expected to wear:
       • Suits or dress slacks with a dress shirt and tie.
   • Contemporary Church Settings:
     • These can be more relaxed:
       • Jeans paired with a nice top are often acceptable.

2. For Women:

   • Traditional Church Settings:
     • Women might wear:
       • Dresses, skirts, or dress slacks paired with a nice blouse.
   • Contemporary Church Settings:
     • These can also be more relaxed:
       • Modest and comfortable clothing is generally fine.
       • Avoid graphic tees with logos or sayings.
       • Solid-colored tops or patterns are acceptable.

Remember that the specific dress code can vary based on the denomination, congregation, and individual preferences. It’s essential to be respectful and considerate of the context and traditions of the religious service you’re attending. 🙏✨

For more detailed insights, you can refer to resources like Christianity Today’s Guidelines and Schmidt Holidays’ Christmas Service Attire Guide.¹²

[carlos]

6 hours ago, blue-jay said:

I think what they meant with "standard of dress in that land" means what's standard in that country/land, not what a local BOE decides. 

 

Jay, I agree with you here. It's quite clear what the brothers meant. Where we were already using jackets and ties, or skirts (which is most of the Western world) that is the standard we will keep using on the platform.

 

However, you know when we wish something we tend to twist words to make them mean what we want. So we have some local sisters who want to wear trousers on the platform and argue that's what the queen of Spain uses even in formal events, so that has to be the standard for this country. Instead of imposing my personal opinion on them, the whole body of elders has decided that the standard of dressing on the platform for sisters in this congregation is a dress or a skirt. Of course we are happy to change that if we receive a different instruction from the CO or the branch --actually we don't have anything against trousers-- but for the time being that is the standard for us in this particular congregation.

[Hope]

28 minutes ago, carlos said:

 

Jay, I agree with you here. It's quite clear what the brothers meant. Where we were already using jackets and ties, or skirts (which is most of the Western world) that is the standard we will keep using on the platform.

 

However, you know when we wish something we tend to twist words to make them mean what we want. So we have some local sisters who want to wear trousers on the platform and argue that's what the queen of Spain uses even in formal events, so that has to be the standard for this country. Instead of imposing my personal opinion on them, the whole body of elders has decided that the standard of dressing on the platform for sisters in this congregation is a dress or a skirt. Of course we are happy to change that if we receive a different instruction from the CO or the branch --actually we don't have anything against trousers-- but for the time being that is the standard for us in this particular congregation.

 

That is exactly what Brother Sanderson said regarding proper attire for sisters on the stage.  I don't know how anyone could come up with anything different and believe they're following direction..

[Pjdriver]

11 hours ago, carlos said:

If the elders in your congregation decide that the standard of dress on the platform is a jacket and a tie, you will not be allowed to give a talk without a jacket and a tie, no matter what the president wears.

Carlos, yes they tell us when and where to wear a suit and tie. Where did the suit and tie originate?

 

We don’t set the trends. The world does or a local areas.  

We are a little slow to catch up and that is why we are all surprised at the beards and less “formal” dress in the ministry etc....  But we eventually got there.  

 

If all the "who’s is who" folks stopped wearing suits and ties altogether,.....we would eventually stop as well. But those changes will affect the brother policies, it just may take some time.

 

So yes I understand the elders decide what we wear on the platform.....but I’m talking about who sets the styles in the first place.   In that sense, the world has a great influence on our dress choices, albeit innocuous.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood you. I think we probably agree,  but are coming from different angles. 

Edited April 3 by Pjdriver

[DancesWithWife]

31 minutes ago, Hope said:

I don't know how anyone could come up with anything different and believe they're following direction..

It's the old saying of people hear what they want to hear. I think about witnesses (not JW) for a crime or a car accident can report the same even with different details from their own views. Think of American Idol and some of the contestants who honestly think they can sing, when most people know they can't! Think of songs that we think what we know what they mean, when we read the lyrics or hear from the songwriter we find the true meaning. 

[Tortuga]

32 minutes ago, DancesWithWife said:

It's the old saying of people hear what they want to hear. I think about witnesses (not JW) for a crime or a car accident can report the same even with different details from their own views. Think of American Idol and some of the contestants who honestly think they can sing, when most people know they can't! Think of songs that we think what we know what they mean, when we read the lyrics or hear from the songwriter we find the true meaning. 

[careful]

On 4/1/2024 at 2:23 PM, Tortuga said:

Agreed. I am very concerned about some of the attitudes and thinking processes that are being developed as we 'question' what the GB meant and what elders in other congregations are doing. 

checking daily to read these reactions is my main form of entertainment.

[Bluebell]

23 hours ago, carlos said:

 

 

 

Yesterday we had three sisters who had demos at the meeting come with trousers. One was able to change clothes with another sister who had a skirt. The other two had to be replaced by someone else.

 

 

 

We had yesterday a similar  situation....a sister (daughter of an elder) had the BS assignment

and she was wearing trousers......

and guess.....she was on the platform doing her talk in trousers..... 😁

Edited April 4 by Bluebell

[Dolce vita]

11 hours ago, Tortuga said:

I admit, I am fascinated by the phenomenon. How is it possible that we don't realize how out of tune we are singing? Are my ears naughty,because they don't let me miss anything and when I sing out of tune, they really know how to tell me. I remember that Brother G. Jackson once expressed himself on this subject: 'Don't these people have family, friends who could help them avoid exposing themselves to such a embarrassment?'

 

Yes, we often hear what we want to hear. We need others to harmonize our perceptions.

[Araujo JW]

Does anyone among the friends know when Update #3 from the Governing Body comes out?

[jwhess]

37 minutes ago, Araujo JW said:

Does anyone among the friends know when Update #3 from the Governing Body comes out?

Number 2 was about the middle of March so the next one should be about the first of May.  They are separated by about 6 weeks.

[Dolce vita]

I made very clever calculations during the pandemic, sometimes I was right but often I was wrong. That's what science is, when it is confronted with divine greatness, it fails.

 

The last one was posted on Friday March 15. For the next one I suggest: Friday April 26. And if it's in May, maybe the 3rd. QED: it will be a Friday, that's for sure, but what day of what month? 

[truce]

1 hour ago, Dolce vita said:

I made very clever calculations during the pandemic, sometimes I was right but often I was wrong. That's what science is, when it is confronted with divine greatness, it fails.

 

The last one was posted on Friday March 15. For the next one I suggest: Friday April 26. And if it's in May, maybe the 3rd. QED: it will be a Friday, that's for sure, but what day of what month? 

I tend to favor Friday April 26 or even the Friday before, because of the upcoming convention starting in May. We expect the new song to be released following the next update. 

[Dolce vita]

9 minutes ago, truce said:

J'ai tendance à privilégier le vendredi 26 avril, voire le vendredi précédent, en raison du prochain congrès qui débutera en mai. Nous prévoyons que la nouvelle chanson sortira après la prochaine mise à jour. 

Let's go, brother Truce

[Sofia]

2 hours ago, truce said:

I tend to favor Friday April 26 or even the Friday before, because of the upcoming convention starting in May. We expect the new song to be released following the next update. 

The new song wil be released on April 15th.

[jwhess]

2 hours ago, truce said:

I tend to favor Friday April 26 or even the Friday before, because of the upcoming convention starting in May. We expect the new song to be released following the next update. 

It was announced that the song would be released on April 15th.

 

EDIT: sorry I just saw that Sr. Sophia already said that, 

Edited April 9 by jwhess

[Nolre]

1 minute ago, jwhess said:

Foi anunciado que a música seria lançada em 15 de abril

I'm looking forward to the melody, as it's customary for the organization to hold a congress with a theme focused on Jesus every 9 years, generally, with the difference in this one, with the new final song quoting our Lord, I've missed that in the other songs so far at the end of conventions. last congresses to Jesus: 1998 - God's Way to Life 2007 - Follow Christ 2015 - Imitate Jesus 2024 - Declare the Good News.

[Araujo JW]

4 hours ago, jwhess said:

Number 2 was about the middle of March so the next one should be about the first of May.  They are separated by about 6 weeks.

 

Thank you, my dear brother!