2024 Governing Body Update #2

[jwhess]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

Did he say anything about conducting the meeting for service? should the brother conducting wear a tie and jacket?

If I get a chance tomorrow I will try to ask.  But the opinion I got was that he would not be giving us a list of all of the duties with a set of "rules" with which attire each the matching publisher should wear.

 

If I had to categorize the CO, I would say he was a minimalist.  He seems to view the idea that beards, no tie, no jacket and sisters with pants is the standard (normal).  The update was to give specific instructions as to exceptions.  If it wasn't mentioned by name in the update, he is not adding any rules.

 

He was quite specific in our meeting with the elders as to getting used to change.  Learn to give up our previous ideas or preferences.  Learn to 'love people'.  He spent considerable time on the changes toward serious wrong-doers.  Look at them as Jehovah and Jesus do.  The same way he attached this love toward those in the congregation.  Don't make life hard for our brothers.  Cut them some slack, so to speak.

Edited April 21 by jwhess

[Parale]

6 hours ago, jwhess said:

They asked if any of the Convention Attendants had to wear jackets or ties.  The answer was a simple NO.  Then they asked if those working on the platform/stage, like microphone adjusters needed to have jackets or ties.  The answer was a qualified NO.

 

He said that locally, we all should know that the update said that you needed to wear the jacket & tie if you had a part on the program.  He asked us if we knew what having a part was.  It hasn't changed in many years.  Those with micellaneous duties on stage weren't participants in the program.  They were just fulfilling duties to make the program functional.  They would not be required to wear jacket or ties.

 

Thank you for confirming what I wrote over a month ago.... it is interesting to hear your CO's comments.

  

On 3/16/2024 at 12:36 AM, Parale said:

If you are an Attendant, or on Roving Microphones - would you tell someone that you had 'a part on the program' at the meeting?

 

If you are an Attendant at your Circuit Assembly, would you tell someone that you had 'a part on the program' at the Assembly?

 

What would the person think if you told them you had 'a part on the program'? You where giving a talk? doing a demonstration? being interviewed? or, you where an Attendant?

 

On 3/15/2024 at 6:25 PM, Parale said:

Simply operating the AV, being an attendant, or handling the microphones, is not being part of the program, so no jacket/tie; skirt/dress required.

 

Edited April 21 by Parale

[DarinS]

On 4/19/2024 at 9:26 AM, Lee49 said:

An elder did the reading for our study last night on stage, didn't wear a tie !  A dress shirt unbuttoned at the top and a jacket.    🚫 👔

Not sure where you live

 

in US they probably would have gotten a substitute 

I know our brothers wouldn’t ignore the direction we received

 

if you will have your regional convention soon - you will receive some additional direction

 

in in our case all with Assembly assignments Attendants /Baptism /Finances(inside) will have Tie and Jacket 

 

in other countries I’m sure things are different 

 

our recent CO visit he commented on some taking the direction bit too far in being casual

both male and female

One brother there said some look like they are going to a nice restaurant and others look like they are going to a club 

 

@ mtg with CO we had several show up with a suit without a tie

but we had 2-3 look like they forgot to iron their clothes - a bit to sloppy

 

funny side point — all those reaching out for MS and Elder were dressed a bit sharper 

and probably more than 70%  of Appointed (24) wore tie and about 50% had a jacket 

[Hope]

A sister with a part on the School this past Thursday wore slacks onstage.

[SKnight]

19 hours ago, jwhess said:

So they called the US Branch and talked to the Convention/Assembly department.

With that affirmation, or answer on this subject matter, we really should move on. The GB Update #2 came out in March and I think it has been clarified a 100 times over: “what we can wear, what we cannot wear, and when to wear it.” 
GB update #3 is fastly coming or information concerning the 2024 Regional Convention. It’s time we move on…,

[Amygdala]

36 minutes ago, Hope said:

A sister with a part on the School this past Thursday wore slacks onstage.

 

Do you think she was approached afterwards? I really think that some didn‘t really fully grasp or pay attention properly to that part about not wearing slacks on stage, although the announcement imo was clear. Perhaps a reminder announcement will be made? But I‘m sure the brothers are aware and will look after that from happening, even by mistake, again.

[jwhess]

18 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Did he say anything about conducting the meeting for service? should the brother conducting wear a tie and jacket?

If I get a chance tomorrow I will try to ask.  But the opinion I got was that he would not be giving us a list of all of the duties with a set of "rules" with which attire each the matching publisher should wear.

-------

 

OK.  It is Sunday, and I asked the CO this question.

He said he had no direct branch information about it.

I asked his personal opinion.

He thought about it and said the he considered the Field Service Meeting to be a 'Congrgation Teaching Program' and would probably encourage the ones conducting to wear at least a tie.  He said the jacket would depend on the local area and the weather.

 

I thanked him for the opinin, I thanked him for the visit and I told him I would share the conversation...💗

Edited April 21 by jwhess

[Tortuga]

16 minutes ago, jwhess said:

He thought about it and said that he considered the Field Service Meeting to be a 'Congregation Teaching Program' and would probably encourage the ones conducting to wear at least a tie.  He said the jacket would depend on the local area and the weather.

Thanks, that is the way our BOE feels too. We have the CO visit in June and will see if he has anything to say about it.

[truce]

4 hours ago, Hope said:

A sister with a part on the School this past Thursday wore slacks onstage.

Remember the clause: If that is the standard of dress in THAT land. 

Which begs the question: what is the standard of dress in Illinois, US? (I assume that is where you live.)

Another question: Who set(s) the standard?

Edited April 21 by truce

[Tortuga]

22 minutes ago, truce said:

Remember the clause: If that is the standard of dress in THAT land. 

Which begs the question: what is the standard of dress in Illinois, US? (I assume that is where you live.)

Another question: Who set(s) the standard?

Let's look at that again. The Announcement said:

“The Governing Body has decided that sisters may choose to wear slacks when participating in the ministry and when attending Christian meetings, assemblies, and conventions. If a sister chooses to wear slacks on such occasions, they should not be casual, but dignified, modest, and appropriate. When a sister has a part on the program, she should wear a skirt or a dress if that is the standard of dress in that land. Of course, some sisters may choose to wear a skirt or a dress even when they do not have a part on the program."

 

The standard of dress in the USA for sisters has always been a skirt or dress. 

[Tortuga]

33 minutes ago, truce said:

Remember the clause: If that is the standard of dress in THAT land. 

What do you believe is the intent of that clause?

[Tortuga]

1 hour ago, truce said:

Remember the clause: If that is the standard of dress in THAT land. 

Which begs the question: what is the standard of dress in Illinois, US? (I assume that is where you live.)

Another question: Who set(s) the standard?

That is explained very well in the announcement. It said:

 “When visiting Bethel, it would be appropriate for brothers to wear a tie and a jacket and for sisters to wear a skirt or a dress if that is the standard of dress in that land.” 

 

So whatever the standard of dress is for Bethel in that land, would be the theocratic standard of dress that a brother or sister would use when they have a part. 

[DancesWithWife]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

she should wear a skirt or a dress 

Part of the problem comes down to semantics with the word "should instead of must". This is where so-called gray area could come in. If we break down the word "should"  there are two definitions: 

1. used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions.

   "he should have been careful"
    
2. used to indicate what is probable.

   "$348 million should be enough to buy him out"

   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   That being said, some are saying or forming the view (opinion) that a meeting for service is part of a program. I'm not saying it is or it is not. I have already mentioned when our CO showed up before this announcement he often wore a sweater with a tie. If a sister "should" wear a skirt or dress on stage for a part, how about out in service if there are no brothers present to conduct the meeting for service?

    

   Right now there are different views or opinions and everyone has a right to their view. I want peace in the Congregation where I live as the rest of you do. We didn't have these choices just a few months ago. It will take time for everyone to adjust. Some are growing beards, some not. Some sisters are wearing dress pants, some not. I am just thankful there is forum like this where we can talk about it respectfully. 

    

   I thought of 2 Corinthians 13:11 when it comes to this discussion and other changes we have seen. Paul wrote "Finally, brothers, continue to rejoice, to be readjusted, to be comforted, to think in agreement, to live peaceably; and the God of love and of peace will be with you."

    

   I was thinking of Thomas, all the other faithful apostles saw Jesus, but Thomas. No matter what they told him, he would not believe. Did Jesus reappear quickly to Thomas? No, it was 8 days later, it must have felt like an eternity to Thomas. Jesus could have appeared to Thomas privately, but no he waited. During those 8 days did the other apostles keep speaking about seeing the glorified Jesus? My point? Not all are going to accept or understand a situation or directions the same. Just because Thomas did not see Jesus and had to wait to see him, did he lose faith? 

    

   Will there be some future clarifications on dress? Possibly. To me it's a small thing. I just want to be obedient, peaceful and be faithful.  Again I appreciate all the different views that are presented here. 

    

    

    

    

    

    

[Hope]

3 hours ago, truce said:

Remember the clause: If that is the standard of dress in THAT land. 

Which begs the question: what is the standard of dress in Illinois, US? (I assume that is where you live.)

Another question: Who set(s) the standard?

I live in Oregon. 😊

 

The standard has been set for many, many years.. and very clear what's appropriate for sisters and brothers who have parts on the platform. That would be dresses/ skirts, jackets & ties.

 

It's so incredibly easy.. I struggle to understand how anyone is missing what we need to do. 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

I don't know if she was counseled privately. It wasn't done from the platform... so, it's very possible we'll see another sister wearing slacks, thinking it's okay. 

[Tortuga]

33 minutes ago, Hope said:

It wasn't done from the platform... so, it's very possible we'll see another sister wearing slacks, thinking it's okay. 

You have discovered the Elder Conundrum.

Do we counsel someone publicly and possibly embarrass and discourage them?

Or do we counsel them privately and then see others follow their example?

[jwhess]

7 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

You have discovered the Elder Conundrum.

Do we counsel someone publicly and possibly embarrass and discourage them?

Or do we counsel them privately and then see others follow their example?

I see some "Local Needs" parts coming up soon...💗

[DancesWithWife]

52 minutes ago, Hope said:

I live in Oregon. 😊

I thought you were going to say plaid shirt with suspenders, hiking boots and a bandana...

[coolbrz731]

Just to add another "data point", I just came from our circuit assembly with the circuit overseer. I was made the cleaning captain and I showed up at the circuit assembly without a tie. I got worried because it looked like I was the only one without a tie. Our elder who was over the entire cleaning department call me over. I thought he was going to ask me to put a tie on. No, he asked me if I wouldn't mind helping out in the back with the baptismal candidates. Afterward, I passed by the circuit overseer as I was going to get the vacuum cleaners for our cleaning assignment and he commended me for all of our hard work and told me I was looking good. So at least here in the Seattle metropolitan area brothers are not expected to wear a tie even when they have leadership positions in certain departments. There were several other attendants that weren't wearing ties.

[Amygdala]

1 hour ago, jwhess said:

I see some "Local Needs" parts coming up soon...💗

 

Perhaps some will only grasp the local needs with pictures and/or soliloquy's. 🤷‍♀️Our Bethel here hasn‘t changed regarding dress and grooming. Good idea.

[Amygdala]

6 hours ago, truce said:

10 hours ago, Hope said:

A sister with a part on the School this past Thursday wore slacks onstage.

Remember the clause: If that is the standard of dress in THAT land. 

Which begs the question: what is the standard of dress in Illinois, US? (I assume that is where you live.)

Another question: Who set(s) the standard?

 

I don‘t know if that‘s applicable for parts on stage, though. That is more of a worldwide, unified standard of dress. Bethels, and I heard at least in one theocratic school, are still required to wear skirts/dresses.

 

In general, the standards for women around the world in the workplace are business slacks or trousers. During free time activities, jeans or other forms of trousers, although in some cultures they wear mostly garb consisting of traditional dress or skirt even for daily activities (like in some remote villages in Asia or the Middle East, perhaps even African countries).

 

The only occupation where skirts are required that I can think of are airline stewardesses. I can‘t think of any other occupation where women are required to wear skirts, unless worn by choice. Many women in higher positions often feel the need to come across similar to their male counterparts, so chiefs of police, politicians, etc. often wear formal slacks. Nonetheless, the option is there for sisters who have no parts on the stage to wear trousers during general worship.

 

The GB has set the standard of dress for parts on the stage, which doesn‘t apply to how the world sets its standard.

 

[Parale]

15 hours ago, DarinS said:

if you will have your regional convention soon - you will receive some additional direction

 

in in our case all with Assembly assignments Attendants /Baptism /Finances(inside) will have Tie and Jacket 

 

Interesting, the Governing Body's annoucement was very specific -

 

Quote

When a brother has a part on the program, he should wear a tie and a jacket if that is the standard of dress in that land.

 

The only exception was -

 

Quote

When visiting Bethel, it would be appropriate for brothers to wear a tie and a jacket and for sisters to wear a skirt or a dress if that is the standard of dress in that land.

 

There was no exception for Assemblies and Conventions.

 

What would the person think if you told them you had 'a part on the program' at the Assembly or Convention? That you where giving a talk? doing a demonstration? being interviewed?..... or, you where an Attendant?

 

Let's hope the brothers and sisters watch, and re-watch, the June 2024 JW Monthly Broadcast.

[Mike047]

2 minutes ago, Parale said:

Let's hope the brothers and sisters watch, and re-watch, the June 2024 JW Monthly Broadcast.

Is this the prophetic one?

[Parale]

6 hours ago, Tortuga said:

You have discovered the Elder Conundrum.

Do we counsel someone publicly and possibly embarrass and discourage them?

Or do we counsel them privately and then see others follow their example?

 

The elder in charge of the meeting should know who the brothers and sisters who have parts on the meeting are. If they are not appropriately dressed, the elder woud speak to them before they are on the platform, and if needed, make alternative arrangements for the assignment - I believe that has always been the case.

[Dhanyel]

On 4/19/2024 at 4:11 PM, Dages said:

This isn't a picture of the brother, I just asked an AI to show me a fat old guy with unbuttoned shirt  
Close enough  

I would like to know what the name of this artificial intelligence program is 

[ChrisW]

Would it be out of place to mention the direction about ties/jackets and dresses/skirts when announcing about those who have parts the following week after the ministry portion of the meeting.