GB 2025 Update #4

[Derrick_m]

Any thoughts on today’s update? In a similar thought about beards, which with time are no longer considered negative, clinking and toasting is now up to the conscience.

 

The origin is actually debated, with some people thinking it would ward off evil spirits. But nobody thinks that today. Wondering what other adjustments this might lead to. 

[BLEmom]

4 hours ago, Dolce vita said:

Honestly, we can also find it 'useless' to toast when we are among ourselves, I don't know, we may not find any meaning in the gesture, but what is certain is that from now on, we will avoid moments of embarrassment when, surrounded by those who do not share our faith, we were until now obliged to show our reserve and sometimes explain why we did not participate. In any case, a question of conscience to be respected.

One sister I know says she excited about it. I don’t really understand why. 
I agree with what you’ve said. I’ve lived half a century not doing it, I don’t really have any reason to take up the practice now. 🤷🏻‍♀️

But at least I know it can be an option if needed….and depending on the toast and occasion.  

[rocket]

While he mentioned nationalism or religious reasons to avoid toasting. One occasion where it might not offend is at a wedding reception wherein the bride and groom toast as they share a glass of wine. Some in the audience might also find it non-offensive to toast the bride and groom. At a wedding anniversary dinner is another occasion.  Motive in both occasion might be the determining factor.

[LeolaRootStew]

1 hour ago, Michał said:

Btw, when someone sneezes and others say something like „Bless you!”, „Jesus!”, „Na zdrowie!” (Be healthy/Cheers), how this practices is viewed in your community? (You can state language or country). Is it something like good manners (as with covering your face while yawning) or does it have superstitions meaning?

 

By the community it's seen as good manners. By JWs it's viewed as superstitious because people used to believe that your heart stopped when you sneezed so people needed to bless you in order for you to have a better chance to survive.

 

To add, I don't think this scenario is similar to how covering your mouth while yawning stopped being associated with superstition because we cover our mouths because it's gross to see the inside of a mouth. In contrast, there is no social benefit to offering a blessing after someone sneezes. The entire purpose of blessing someone is because we think they need a blessing in that moment. Since that is not true, it is still superstitious when practiced today.

[Tortuga]

Toasting...

[Andrey]

5 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

We cover our mouths because it's gross to see the inside of a mouth 

 

That's why at the dentist's, two doctors are trying to open my mouth. 🤣

[Michał]

10 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

By the community it's seen as good manners. By JWs it's viewed as superstitious because people used to believe that your heart stopped when you sneezed so people needed to bless you in order for you to have a better chance to survive.

 

To add, I don't think this scenario is similar to how covering your mouth while yawning stopped being associated with superstition because we cover our mouths because it's gross to see the inside of a mouth. In contrast, there is no social benefit to offering a blessing after someone sneezes. The entire purpose of blessing someone is because we think they need a blessing in that moment. Since that is not true, it is still superstitious when practiced today.

Thank you. I don’t understand either why people need to bless you after your sneezing 😄In Poland people just say „Na zdrowie” which is a shortened version of „May you be healthy” but from my observation nobody cares, they just say it. I don’t have opinion on that yet. 

[Joe]

Thanksgiving will be next...

[Dustparticle]

5 minutes ago, Joe said:

Thanksgiving will be next...

Why? Why should the Native Americans should be thankful that the white men took over their lands? I have doubts that they meet together when they spoke in different languages. 

[Sepie93]

I love this update
Not because all of a sudden, we are "allowed" (even if that's how you want to call it..) to toast, but because the very simple reasoning is clear and based on principles.
The organization is maturing more and more, and it teaches us to mature with it by really thinking in principles, using our God-given thinking ability.

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[carlos]

IMO, the principles have always been clear. It's their application that raises doubts. I mean, every Christian understands we don't celebrate Christmas, and no Christian has a problem with covering his mouth when yawning, even if they both originate with false religion, because those are extremes. 

 

It's more difficult to understand, and to some degree arbitrary, why some practices that have lost their religious meaning are acceptable while others are not. Wedding rings are ok but toasting is not (well, until now). Piñatas are acceptable but throwing rice to the newlyweds is not. What is the reasoning? I don't know.

 

Some decades ago we were unbearably strict. We were a stick in the mud, looking at everything with suspicion and finding traces of false religion everywhere. The same as a child matures until he becomes a man, our organization is constantly maturing and learning to apply Bible principles better. When I went to pioneer school at 16 my mind exploded with the chapter about Bible principles. I remember chess being avoided by Witnesses because it was a war game. I remember articles quoting Christendom fundamentalists saying rock was Satanic and an article quoting an idiot claiming E.T. was a parody of Jesus. As an organization we have come a long way from then. We recently understood that we cannot tell Jehovah who should be saved and who should. We understood a more logical, loving and Christ-like way of treating those who were removed from the congregation. We understood beards. I'm sure our application of Bible principles will continue to be refined in the future.

[Jake]

TLDR: No need to make rules, just base on bible principles.

 

Also to not needlessly offend others. It's inevitable that some will be offended as others' consciences will allow them to take part in things that others' consciences have not yet adjusted to yet. Yet on the converse side, not to needlessly take offense at the same time.

[Sebastian]

I agree that this may be a prelude to a revision of our understanding on birthdays. For the most part, there are no longer and false religious connotations or any memory of them. Perhaps some counsel will be given about certain aspects of birthday celebrations. We’ll see how Jehovah continues to refine our understanding. 🥂🍻

[minister159]

This clarification was said to be made to promote the unity of our brotherhood. This might seem to be counterintuitive, saying that the more Christian freedom we have, the more united we are. I suppose it's in the sense that this new-found freedom will contribute to less disagreements and arguments in these, what are now grey areas. 

It just goes to show, once again, that unity doesn't always mean uniformity.

[navco]

2 hours ago, Sebastian said:

I agree that this may be a prelude to a revision of our understanding on birthdays. For the most part, there are no longer and false religious connotations or any memory of them. Perhaps some counsel will be given about certain aspects of birthday celebrations. We’ll see how Jehovah continues to refine our understanding. 🥂🍻

Ehhhh dont know about that one so we can celebrate thanksgiving? Juneteeth? St paddies day?i.dont see us celebrating any holiday that the world does just my opinion but who knows?

[Adam!]

I wonder whose going to be the first to clink a glass at the next Memorial... deliberate or not 🤔

[Jothob]

What a lovely update….As for me I’ve always loved fairy lights as we call them here in the UK…(string lights) 

I have plenty in my garden and really love it as it gets dark and they start to shine and twinkle. 

It was interesting what bro Lett said that the bethelites that have these string lights on their balcony won’t light them up in November and December because of Xmas, I will have to remember to turn mine off at that time too…

Great advice….

[Obb]

I received a text today from my brother-in-law asking, “You ready to make a toast?” Not knowing the context, I immediately checked the app and saw the new Governing Body update. Before even reading it, I had a feeling it might touch on how we’ve traditionally interpreted the idea of toasting.

 

As I considered the direction the update might take, two possibilities came to mind: either a move away from former associations with questionable origins (like certain symbols linked to demonic influences), as an example such as the dollar sign which I found out from a past District Overseer talk is actually a mockery on the copper snake Moses used to heal those who looked at it), or a recognition that such practices are now conscience matters, similar to other recent adjustments.

 

It seems the update is leaning toward interpreting actions based on present-day context rather than historical associations, unless the original belief is still prominent in that region. That makes sense, given how many customs (e.g. wedding rings, covering the mouth when you yawn, wedding veils, bonfires - bonefires, bridesmaids and groomsmen, gift giving, etc.) have origins that could be linked to pagan or demonic traditions. Even mentioning the names of the days of the week. They have origins (e.g., Sunday = honoring the Sun, Monday “Moon’s day”, Tuesday “Norse God”., etc). 

 

Personally, I find it refreshing that doctrine is being more clearly separated from opinions or cultural traditions. Just like how Paul occasionally inserted his personal views into scripture, and those aren’t considered doctrine. Likewise, circuit overseers sometimes offer preferences that reflect individual interpretation rather than spiritual instruction. One of our CO's once said that Sunday field service should be as busy as Saturday field service and really pushed the hall to do it. I mean, it's a nice goal, but still an opinion. 

 

Some might view this as becoming lenient, but I believe it's about focusing on what truly matters. With everything going on in the world and being in the last days, it's important that we keep our attention on meaningful spiritual guidance and not let the small, less relevant things weigh us down (e.g. worrying about whether beards or ok, or we should be wearing suits/ties, or women wearing dress pants, etc.). While we don't want change for the sake of change, these changes definitely make sense and I welcome them with open arms.  

Edited 11 hours ago by Obb

[ChrisC]

I put a string of lights around the wheelchair ramp out the back about 2 years ago. I didn’t switch them off at the end of the year because they were ‘landing lights’!

A fox pretty soon bit through them anyway.

 

Regarding birthdays:

I’m sure no one wants to go back to having a book of dates to remember, and feeling forced to look for presents. (Before the Truth dad would give me £10 in February, and I would give it back to him in March!)

But a brother quietly thanking Jehovah for another year of his life is completely different, imo.

[Joe]

Saying “god bless you” when someone sneezes… that will go away too

[ChrisC]

18 minutes ago, Joe said:

Saying “god bless you” when someone sneezes… that will go away too

Saying: “Are you okay?”, can sometimes work.

[Obb]

1 minute ago, ChrisC said:

Saying: “Are you okay?”, can sometimes work.

 

Or, Gesundheit which just means 'health'.  

[jwzhang]

4 hours ago, Sebastian said:

I agree that this may be a prelude to a revision of our understanding on birthdays. For the most part, there are no longer and false religious connotations or any memory of them. Perhaps some counsel will be given about certain aspects of birthday celebrations. We’ll see how Jehovah continues to refine our understanding. 🥂🍻

 

Maybe the certain aspect part of birthdays, but I don't think this will happen personally. 

 

Someone already mentioned that birthdays from the Bible all have a negative connotation. On top of that, it would be a day to "glorify" yourself, or another person, which is not in line with good qualities. 

 

Eccl 7:1 focuses on the importance of building a good name/reputation everyday while we live, and not just celebrating the day we were born on. 

 

Lastly, I think if anything, mother and fathers day would come before birthdays. But because of similar reasonings (glorying a person, having other days in the year to respect your parents) idk if we would make any changes about those either.

 

[jwzhang]

8 hours ago, jwhess said:

The admonition to refrain from "toasting" goes as far back as my association with Jehovah's people. Here is a 1952 QFR.

 

*** w52 5/15 p. 319 Questions From Readers ***
In shunning this custom of toasting, along with many other objectionable customs, we may appear narrow-minded to worldlings. So we are. But never forget for a moment that our Christian narrowness is our salvation, just as the world’s broadness is its destruction.—Matt. 7:13, 14.

 

That was the year my father began studying.  He was baptized in 1954.

Change is upon us...♥️

 

Oh my. That emoji is a former religious symbol...😁

 

 

 

Wow, what a difference from that article from back in the day!

 

You know that is another good example bro Hess...

 

I briefly looked up the origin of the heart symbol, which we all commonly use today, and while nobody knows of a single origin, all of these don't sound very good haha. Thankfully nobody associates ❤️ to any of these anymore:

 

The heart shape is recognized the world over as a symbol of romantic love and affection, but its historical origins are difficult to pin down. Some believe the iconic pictogram is derived from the shape of ivy leaves, which are associated with fidelity, while others contend it was modeled after breasts, buttocks or other parts of the human anatomy.

 

[LeolaRootStew]

They mentioned that the associations people currently have with a custom will have an effect on whether or not we participate, so I wonder what will happen when the people who were around when customs originated are resurrected. Will they be able to divorce actions and symbols from their false worship or superstitious practices?