DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[Craig]

I've been thinking about why this strange twist pops up. But as mentioned, it could be the work of Jehovah, which could only be said afterwards. 
But the reward for the family was already awarded a few years earlier and given now by Putin. He could decide not to reward them because of the judgement and extremist belief. Or to reward them and show the nation that he's neutral. Which gives him the ability to  overthrow the church or orthodox church as a neutral person? 
Goverments operates with different agenda. One they show is, and one they really want to fullfill. 
So it could go either way. But it is remarkable. And I've got the feeling it has to do with something bigger.
 
I'm not trying to give 2 possibilities. But trying to say this big. But can go into every direction.

Hi skidaflip, were could I find information regarding the family having been awarded this a few years ago?



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[Bruceq]

12 hours ago, skipdaflip said:

Don't forget that the call for peace and security and the sealing of the anointed ones must take place before the attack on false religion.

 

On one of our last meetings we had a lecture about images/shadows and counter images/reality. The article warned about seeing al kind of higher meanings in several scriptures, cause we could see meanings in all kind of things which would lead our attention away from the lesson that's enclosed in the scripture. 

 

I must say it's a typical action of Putin and perhaps it could lead to more. And this action already gave tremendous honor to Jehovah's name, because of the great example that the family gave because they live by Jehovah's law, which were on the other hand marked as members of an 'extremist' organisation. 

 

But to see it as a twist that will lead to the attack of the false religion, or will have anything to do with 7/17/17... I think we must not make this bigger than it probably is

 

Sorry if you misunderstood my entire post but I am not trying to find type/antitype hidden messages here.

I did not say this particular event would lead to the Great Tribulation. I said :" some day in the future ". I am referring to PERHAPS a similar situation happening IN THE FUTURE not this one since this only pertains to one country and one religion ROC. The GT will be world wide and all religions.  And I said the court date on July 17th would be "interesting to watch".  I am sure others will feel it will be interesting to watch. As for how "big" it gets that is up to Jehovah but I still am going to watch no matter what the verdict becomes. Either way we have already won since the witness from all of this praises Jehovah. Be positive not negative. Jehovah is in COMPLETE control.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Bruceq

[Bruceq]

    A side note. Some people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses have indicated that after seeing what has happened in Russia and what Putin did have actually concluded that this is some kind of "Divine intervention". Some have concluded that the odds are "impossible" {Ratio of Witnesses in Russia being 1 in 850 and for this event to occur at all} But the real impossibility is that

the Secret Service and FBI {FSB i think its called} would allow people who are considered "dangerous extremist" on the same podium he is on and then have that very world leader "praise" these "extremist" for the very opposite reason that they are being accused of being extremist in the first place. 

Putin said they were "exemplary citizens" and said "may God be with you"!!!

Why did the security services not pick up on who they were?  Who do you think hid their eyes that they were extremist and banned? And recall Putin himself was once KGB!

 Now if worldly people can see this well...perhaps many may change their opinion on the truth or even become Witnesses as a result of all this.  So no matter what the outcome is remain postive and have faith that Jehovah can use ANY event to glorify his Name.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Bruceq

[Old]

3 hours ago, Bruceq said:

    A side note. Some people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses have indicated that after seeing what has happened in Russia and what Putin did have actually concluded that this is some kind of "Divine intervention". Some have concluded that the odds are "impossible" {Ratio of Witnesses in Russia being 1 in 850 and for this event to occur at all} But the real impossibility is that

the Secret Service and FBI {FSB i think its called} would allow people who are considered "dangerous extremist" on the same podium he is on and then have that very world leader "praise" these "extremist" for the very opposite reason that they are being accused of being extremist in the first place. 

Putin said they were "exemplary citizens" and said "may God be with you"!!!

Why did the security services not pick up on who they were?  Who do you think hid their eyes that they were extremist and banned? And recall Putin himself was once KGB!

 Now if worldly people can see this well...perhaps many may change their opinion on the truth or even become Witnesses as a result of all this.  So no matter what the outcome is remain postive and have faith that Jehovah can use ANY event to glorify his Name.

 

OUCH!  All that bold hurts my eye. Can someone tell me what was said? Perhaps in a whisper?

Edited June 11, 2017 by Old

[Tbs77]

Hhmmm. I can't find the post I was looking for. Somewhere in this thread someone suggested our lawyers were going to have a field day with this award-winning family in the courtroom when the appeal comes up. Someone else thought maybe they would play the video of this family receiving the award in the courtroom. Etc... But I was wondering (although not out loud until now)...
 
It was mentioned in one of the news stories the brothers don't expect to get very far with the appeal before the Russian Supreme Court.
 

Sivulskiy said he has “very, very little” hope that an appeal will be successful.

 
They can foresee the prejudiced attitude of the first Supreme Court decision being carried over to the appeal. If that was the case, would the lawyers for the administrative center risk the safety and well-being of this family by publicly announcing in the courtroom that they are Witnesses? We have already heard about brothers and sisters losing their jobs, Witness children being intimidated in school, and Kingdom Halls being vandalized after the first judgment against us. If we lose the appeal, and the lawyers seem to think this is a very definite possibility, what else could happen in the wake of a second adverse judgment? Especially, what could happen to this family when people find out they are Witnesses?
 
I don't know. Is this a legitimate concern I'm having here?

IMHO, It's public knowledge already that the family serves Jehovah. May be possibility the family is most likely being harassed now or possibly was being harassed shortly after initial ruling but Jehovah maneuvered matters. The brothers know that the courts are prejudiced but this ceremony didn't take place when they statement was made so I believe this will be played in the court room. Let's stay tuned and keep praying!

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[Bruceq]

31 minutes ago, Old said:

OUCH!  All that bold hurts my eye. Can someone tell me what was said? Perhaps in a whisper?

 

Just have faith that Jehovah is in control of things is a summary of it {Sorry but its hard to read the very faint regular font here, so I put it in bold letters maybe its just my computer.}

Edited June 11, 2017 by Bruceq

[skipdaflip]

4 hours ago, Bruceq said:

Sorry if you misunderstood my entire post but I am not trying to find type/antitype hidden messages here.

I did not say this particular event would lead to the Great Tribulation. I said :" some day in the future ". I am referring to PERHAPS a similar situation happening IN THE FUTURE not this one since this only pertains to one country and one religion ROC. The GT will be world wide and all religions.  And I said the court date on July 17th would be "interesting to watch".  I am sure others will feel it will be interesting to watch. As for how "big" it gets that is up to Jehovah but I still am going to watch no matter what the verdict becomes. Either way we have already won since the witness from all of this praises Jehovah. Be positive not negative. Jehovah is in COMPLETE control.

 

I'm sorry if I said something that looked like an attack on tour post. Perhaps I misunderstood. I only try to tell we should not make the happening about putin and the JW family bigger thans it is. I'm sorry if I misunderstood it.

[Bruceq]

3 hours ago, skipdaflip said:

I'm sorry if I said something that looked like an attack on tour post. Perhaps I misunderstood. I only try to tell we should not make the happening about putin and the JW family bigger thans it is. I'm sorry if I misunderstood it.

No problem I should probably keep the speculation part of my post to the speculation section.  

Edited June 11, 2017 by Bruceq

[Ahuvah]

On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 4:45 AM, skipdaflip said:

I'm sorry if I said something that looked like an attack on tour post. Perhaps I misunderstood. I only try to tell we should not make the happening about putin and the JW family bigger thans it is. I'm sorry if I misunderstood it.

That being said, it is certainly a noteworthy event, noteworthy enough for it to appear on jw.org and when that happens I take notice. Only time and hindsight though will tell us how significant or not this is.

[LindaL.]

On 2017-6-11 at 7:40 AM, Craig said:

But the reward for the family was already awarded a few years earlier and given now by Putin.

Hi skipdaflip, could you substantiate this statement please.

 

 

Maybe this is the explanation:

 

"The Noviks' path to the Family Glory award was a long one. First, they were approved by the municipal authorities in Petrozavodsk. Then they were nominated by the regional government of Karelia -- in 2015. After that, nothing but silence until they were informed in April -- the same month as the Supreme Court decision -- that they had been selected."

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-jehovah-s-witness-family-award-extremist-putin/28546976.html

[GeordieGirl]

https://jw-russia.org/news/17061415-180.html

 

Languishing in jail Dennis Christensen and his co-religionists have gained appreciation from the local authorities

June 14, 2017

Photo collage: cleaning of the territory in the city of Eagle and Dennis Christensen

The City of Eagle was awarded the local Jehovah's Witnesses for their active participation in cleaning the city from garbage. Believers have been nice to get appreciation from the city and a gift from the administration's signature: "In gratitude for a good deed - garbage collection for the benefit of people and nature."

Signature on a gift from the city administration

Jehovah's Witnesses, wherever they live, tend to benefit neighbors not only the spread of Bible knowledge, but also participation in various forms of socially useful activity. The same is citizenship and Dennis Christensen - one of the Oryol Jehovah's Witnesses, who were actively involved in cleaning. Standing foot in cold water Orlik River, it pulled out of a net river trash. All work was carried out free of charge.

In view of this particularly ironic look that Christensen had almost three weeks languishing in the city jailon false charges of organizing an extremist community. Believers are in disbelief, because, according to city officials, this is the community benefit the city. Garbage collection was the last good thing Dennis that he had to do, while at liberty.

It is noteworthy that the representative of the administration of the Eagle was sympathetic to Jehovah's Witnesses because of religious persecution in the country and wished them not to lose the power of the spirit.

[rbrown1205]

"Coreligionists"? They're my brothers and sisters. And that family who was being honored for outstanding parenthood of eight children,  follows a faith that supposedly protects child molesters?  I am not a child molester,and I read the same lessons as they do, as do eight million others.  I appreciate how the Australia hearings clearly demonstrated the difference between accusation and truth, also between associates or relatives and dedicated Witnesses.

 

Whether or not he meant to, Putin or whoever set this up provided a different answer to those who accuse Jehovah and his teaching.

[retroHelen]

On 15/06/2017 at 10:59 AM, LindaL. said:

 

Maybe this is the explanation:

 

"The Noviks' path to the Family Glory award was a long one. First, they were approved by the municipal authorities in Petrozavodsk. Then they were nominated by the regional government of Karelia -- in 2015. After that, nothing but silence until they were informed in April -- the same month as the Supreme Court decision -- that they had been selected."

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-jehovah-s-witness-family-award-extremist-putin/28546976.html

Mr Putin maybe wanted to get the long-standing deserved good family award over with before the final appeal, in case it goes against us (or because it will). 

[Iron Stylus]

On 6/15/2017 at 6:34 AM, GeordieGirl said:

https://jw-russia.org/news/17061415-180.html

 

Languishing in jail Dennis Christensen and his co-religionists have gained appreciation from the local authorities

June 14, 2017

Photo collage: cleaning of the territory in the city of Eagle and Dennis Christensen

The City of Eagle was awarded the local Jehovah's Witnesses for their active participation in cleaning the city from garbage. Believers have been nice to get appreciation from the city and a gift from the administration's signature: "In gratitude for a good deed - garbage collection for the benefit of people and nature."

Signature on a gift from the city administration

Jehovah's Witnesses, wherever they live, tend to benefit neighbors not only the spread of Bible knowledge, but also participation in various forms of socially useful activity. The same is citizenship and Dennis Christensen - one of the Oryol Jehovah's Witnesses, who were actively involved in cleaning. Standing foot in cold water Orlik River, it pulled out of a net river trash. All work was carried out free of charge.

In view of this particularly ironic look that Christensen had almost three weeks languishing in the city jailon false charges of organizing an extremist community. Believers are in disbelief, because, according to city officials, this is the community benefit the city. Garbage collection was the last good thing Dennis that he had to do, while at liberty.

It is noteworthy that the representative of the administration of the Eagle was sympathetic to Jehovah's Witnesses because of religious persecution in the country and wished them not to lose the power of the spirit.

It's news articles  like his false imprisonment on top of the corrupt Russian hearing that will encourage people to take a closer look at JWs. If I wasn't a witness and followed the court case and heard that a local worship center of the witnesses was burned to the ground, I would seriously not have to guess who the bad guys are here. The proof is in the pudding. Or in this case the proof is in the Putin. lol

[Tortuga]

They are so goofed up...

 

https://www.jw-russia.org/news/17061611-181.html

 

In Crimea, the draft commission demanded that the recruit - Jehovah's Witnesses present a document renouncing his faith, and go to a different faith.

 

June 9, 2017 a believer, once again visiting the local military commissariat, he received an offer to perform alternative civilian service (ACS). He agreed, adding that for a long time achieves just that. But then he was told that the right of passage of the AGS will be granted only on condition of renouncing their religious beliefs.

 

The two agendas of the recruit asked to come to the military enlistment office "to provide a change of faith documents". The believer does not explain what kind of faith he should go, and where to obtain such documents, but added that in case of failure it goes to trial.

 

The 28th article of the Constitution guarantees every citizen the "right to profess ... any religion or no religion." Neither the Supreme Court nor any other court shall never restrict this right as applied to Jehovah's Witnesses and did not forbid the views of Jehovah's Witnesses as a criminal.

 

Article 59 of the Russian Constitution states: "A citizen of the Russian Federation in case his convictions or religious belief contradict military service, as well as in other cases stipulated by federal law has the right to replace it with alternative civilian service." The law does not specify what kind of beliefs must be with the recruit.
 

[Gi-Gi]

There was a comment I can no longer find that stated that President Putin sent letters to our  brothers in Russia stating that he has nothing to do with the ban.  If someone remembers could they please redirect me.

Thank you

[Omoyeme]

On 6/17/2017 at 3:58 PM, Gi-Gi said:

There was a comment I can no longer find that stated that President Putin sent letters to our  brothers in Russia stating that he has nothing to do with the ban.  If someone remembers could they please redirect me.

 

Look on page 145, ID:3608 on this thread.

[TrueTomHarley]

On 6/11/2017 at 0:11 PM, Bruceq said:

 {Sorry but its hard to read the very faint regular font here, so I put it in bold letters maybe its just my computer.}

Ah, NOW is cleared up the great mystery. My own computer can also be ornery, though not in the same way.*

 

*See Bill Belichick chapter of 'No Fake News but Plenty of Hogwash,' which I think is in the 30% free preview section.

 

Compose it in bold, my friend, but post it in regular. Have faith that everyone else can read it.

[dove]

Sunday I caught the last 10 minutes of a broadcast on C-Span of President Putin responding to questions from a live audience and those submitted  text, electronic mail, telephone and live video during his annual call-in program in Moscow. I guess he's been doing this for fifteen years now.

I was hoping to hear if anyone would have asked or mentioned anything about Jehovah's Witnesses, the ban, the family awarded the prize, but nothing in the last 10 minutes.

I tried to see if there was a repeat of the broadcast anywhere but couldn't find one. It would have been interesting if it was brought up; would like to have heard his replies..

[Omoyeme]

jw-russia.org: (Google Translate)

Quote

Oryol Rgional Court Left an Innocent Believer in Custody

 

June 21, 2017 Court of Appeal considered it justified the most severe measure of restraint for the peace of a gentle man, Dennis Christensen, who has already spent in jail Orel 4 weeks only for the fact that he read the Bible in a circle of brothers and sisters in the faith. Hearing the decision of the court, many of those present in the audience could not hold back her tears.

FSB investigators conduct investigations in relation to Dennis, was credited to him "organizing an extremist organization." By insisting on the most severe measure of restraint, law enforcement unreliable told the court that Dennis Kristensen, Danish citizen, was allegedly the leader of the banned local religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Eagle. In fact, he never was not only a leader, but also a member of this organization. Lawyers continue to work actively in order to prove the complete innocence of the believer.

 

 

Quote

Video: Land of a Wave of Sectarian Violence

 

Pogroms, arson, acts of violence and vandalism, confiscation of personal belongings, insulting religious feelings of believers in the most vile form of illegal arrests - all this becomes an everyday reality in Russia today. This was only possible thanks to the incitement of religious intolerance in the society, which is repeatedly increased after the recent decision of the Supreme Court.

 

Video at this link: https://jw-russia.org/news/17062022-182.html

Brother Christensen wife is interviewed, I believed.  (If anyone of the Russian friends here can kindly give us the gist of what she is saying, it would be greatly appreciated.)

Edited June 21, 2017 by Omo_Yeme

[Victoria]

Irina Christensen said it was terrible! When they were studying the Bible 15 policemen suddenly came in. They made everybody sit still, didn't let them touch their phones. They treated JWs as criminals, questioned them for 14 hours. Irina also said her husband was arrested and didn't have food and water for almost 24 hours.

[AH173]

Thanks for the info on the authorities shameful conduct 

[Gi-Gi]

On 6/21/2017 at 1:50 PM, Omo_Yeme said:

jw-russia.org: (Google Translate)

 

 

 

Video at this link: https://jw-russia.org/news/17062022-182.html

Brother Christensen wife is interviewed, I believed.  (If anyone of the Russian friends here can kindly give us the gist of what she is saying, it would be greatly appreciated.)

 

How can I see a translation in English please

[LindaL.]

On 5/5/2017 at 10:17 AM, Martin said:

I live in Finland and there will be russian RC in Helsinki at the summer in Jäähalli. Maximum capasity is around 8000.

This morning I received the following WhatsApp message from my former circuit overseer:

 

"This past weekend, the Finland Bethel organized a Zone Convention in Helsinki for our dear Russian brothers. The Finnish brothers opened their homes to the Russian brothers whom they didn't know personally, providing 4,500 delegates with accomodation, food and transport to the Convention for all three days.

Despite the fact that most Finns don't speak a word of Russian, love helped to overcome the linguistic barriers (John 13:35).

Brother Mark Sanderson, of the Governing Body, was amongst those present, having come specifically to strengthen our persecuted brothers."

 

He also sent me a video of the baptismal candidates at this convention: 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6cr4a3e3k1bynj/VID-20170626-WA0002.mp4?dl=0

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by LindaL.
Slight inaccuracy: "baptism" changed to "baptismal candidates"

[The Outcast]

2 hours ago, LindaL. said:

This morning I received the following WhatsApp message from my former circuit overseer:

 

"This past weekend, the Finland Bethel organized a Zone Convention in Helsinki for our dear Russian brothers. The Finnish brothers opened their homes to the Russian brothers whom they didn't know personally, providing 4,500 delegates with accomodation, food and transport to the Convention for all three days.

Despite the fact that most Finns don't speak a word of Russian, love helped to overcome the linguistic barriers (John 13:35).

Brother Mark Sanderson, of the Governing Body, was amongst those present, having come specifically to strengthen our persecuted brothers."

 

He also sent me a video of the baptismal candidates at this convention: 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6cr4a3e3k1bynj/VID-20170626-WA0002.mp4?dl=0

 

 

Thank you for your encouraging information.

Maybe the video is not from Finland 2017 russian convention.
Jäähalli is an ice sports hall.
I found another video on the internet.

It fits more to the place and the  size of the convention.

Perhaps someone can tell us more.

 

http://www.imgrom.com/video/1543623910574417807/markosamikaislama_2165813431

That would fit better