A Different Way to Prevent a Suicide

[Loopy]

Great work Michigan State Police and willing truckers. 

 

Gotta scroll further down for further article due to ads. ☹️☹️☹️☹️

 

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/13-semis-line-detroit-freeway-to-help-man-considering-suicide

[EccentricM]

A shame when peole resort to such. Suicide does not being relief, because one is not around to experiance it. I mean it's "death". People often envision serene, or calm, like sleeping, but the thing is, sleeping people wake up and to then "reflect" on the sleeping and the rest. Death does not do such a thing. (Only Jehovah can bring people back of course). People forget it brings pain on others who are still living, and may even promote the suicide of others in turn.

 

People assume they will never get better or find something worth living for, but people do. People take their lives for things like a loss of a job, and panic they will ose everything, and evntually their lives, but ironically seal their own fates by taking their own lives in fear of what they "imagine" will cause them harm or take thier lives from them. Even living for living sake to "experiance" is enough reason to go on. Often it is assumed a bad experiance will define one's life, that it will be constant, that they will feel no enjoy in "anything" evet again, but people experiance both ups and downs. "Hope" is what people lack. Some also think by taking their own life they will send themselves to a better place, or their lost loved ones.

 

Important to remember too that suicide is a form of murder. A murder of the self. Now not all, but some who take their own lives may forfeit a ressurection. If you note that all suicides in the Bible were people who were sinners. Saul, Judas, etc. Some righteous men wanted their lives to end, but note they never actually acted on such, but always asked Jehovah to take their lives, as he was the one with the authority. Also knowing they'd be ressurected in a better state by him. But even upon these requests, Jehovah did not grant them. Only Samson where he brought down the temple around him. And this was a form of sacrifice as opposed to self murder.

 

It always facinates me, the essence and sanctity of life it's self. Jehovah knew his people years ago would die of old age and the end would not have come, yet he always implored them to stay alive regardless. Even Jesus cried when Lazzarus died, knowing he would ressurect him.

 

Ecclesiastes 7:16 - "Why should you die before your time?"

Ecclesiastes 11:10 - "Remove troublesome things from your heart, ward off harm from your body"

Ezekiel 33:11 - "Tell them, ‘“As surely as I am alive,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that someone wicked changes his way and keeps living. Turn back, turn back from your bad ways, for why should you die, O house of Israel?”’

 

 

Satan on the other hand promotes death. The taking of one's own life. In many false religions and cultures it is a practice. Japanese Seppuku and Kamikaze. In Taosim, there is meditation until death, and the same in Buddhism along with self mummification. (Look up mummified Buddhist monks in gold statues stuck in a meditation pose). There are other suicide cults too, such as that alien cult who thought they were going to be "beamed up" upon death.

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by EccentricM

[LeslieDean]

Really enjoyed listening to your thoughts and your conclusions.  I never thought about it in such terms. 

[Saffron]

Mental illness is prevalent these days. Treatment is often expensive, difficult to obtain, and even ineffective at times. Take the tremendous pain that these people suffer, add to it the horrible world conditions that we live in, plus not knowing Jehovah or having hope for the future, and what hope do they have? A person who is suicidal is just looking for their pain to end, nothing more, nothing less. By the time they are trying to follow through, they are usually beyond the point of realizing that this act doesn't stop the pain, only transfers it to others. By this point, they can't see it because their brain is telling them that no one cares and that their loved ones would be better off without them anyway.

 

 

[GeordieGirl]

7 hours ago, EccentricM said:

A shame when peole resort to such. Suicide does not being relief, because one is not around to experiance it. I mean it's "death". People often envision serene, or calm, like sleeping, but the thing is, sleeping people wake up and to then "reflect" on the sleeping and the rest. Death does not do such a thing. (Only Jehovah can bring people back of course). People forget it brings pain on others who are still living, and may even promote the suicide of others in turn.

 

People assume they will never get better or find something worth living for, but people do. People take their lives for things like a loss of a job, and panic they will ose everything, and evntually their lives, but ironically seal their own fates by taking their own lives in fear of what they "imagine" will cause them harm or take thier lives from them. Even living for living sake to "experiance" is enough reason to go on. Often it is assumed a bad experiance will define one's life, that it will be constant, that they will feel no enjoy in "anything" evet again, but people experiance both ups and downs. "Hope" is what people lack. Some also think by taking their own life they will send themselves to a better place, or their lost loved ones.

 

Important to remember too that suicide is a form of murder. A murder of the self. Now not all, but some who take their own lives may forfeit a ressurection. If you note that all suicides in the Bible were people who were sinners. Saul, Judas, etc. Some righteous men wanted their lives to end, but note they never actually acted on such, but always asked Jehovah to take their lives, as he was the one with the authority. Also knowing they'd be ressurected in a better state by him. But even upon these requests, Jehovah did not grant them. Only Samson where he brought down the temple around him. And this was a form of sacrifice as opposed to self murder.

 

It always facinates me, the essence and sanctity of life it's self. Jehovah knew his people years ago would die of old age and the end would not have come, yet he always implored them to stay alive regardless. Even Jesus cried when Lazzarus died, knowing he would ressurect him.

 

Ecclesiastes 7:16 - "Why should you die before your time?"

Ecclesiastes 11:10 - "Remove troublesome things from your heart, ward off harm from your body"

Ezekiel 33:11 - "Tell them, ‘“As surely as I am alive,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that someone wicked changes his way and keeps living. Turn back, turn back from your bad ways, for why should you die, O house of Israel?”’

 

 

Satan on the other hand promotes death. The taking of one's own life. In many false religions and cultures it is a practice. Japanese Seppuku and Kamikaze. In Taosim, there is meditation until death, and the same in Buddhism along with self mummification. (Look up mummified Buddhist monks in gold statues stuck in a meditation pose). There are other suicide cults too, such as that alien cult who thought they were going to be "beamed up" upon death.

 

 

 

 

How easy to be objective to suicide when you have never been near it, to be able to view it as something remote and distant.

To not understand the pain that these ones get to that they feel nothing can ever take that pain away, that the whole world is a dark and painful place and there is nothing left to live for.  You have obviously never been so depressed that going to sleep and never waking up seems like the only way to get away from your pain.

 

Many of  Jehovah's servants, not just those in the past like Job, but those in these last days, can desire that release even if they never take it. 

 

Taking away the hope of those who have dealt with the pain, guilt and suffering of suicide in their lives, by saying that "these ones may not receive a resurrection", is neither kind or upbuilding but just adds to their pain. Even the slave has not said this, so what gives you the right to make such a statement. Do you not think that maybe these ones are already worried about such an outcome, that maybe they fear they won't ever see their loved one(s) again because of the way they ended their life, but that maybe relying heavily on the love and understanding of their heavenly father is what helps them deal with their pain and gets them through the difficult times.  Then you come along and shatter that hope by saying such things  and then these ones have to start rebuilding it all over again.  

Edited April 24, 2018 by GeordieGirl

[Hope]

24 minutes ago, GeordieGirl said:

How easy to be objective to suicide when you have never been near it, to be able to view it as something remote and distant.

To not understand the pain that these ones get to that they feel nothing can ever take that pain away, that the whole world is a dark and painful place and there is nothing left to live for.  You have obviously never been so depressed that going to sleep and never waking up seems like the only way to get away from your pain.

 

Many of  Jehovah's servants, not just those in the past like Job, but those in these last days, can desire that release even if they never take it. 

 

Taking away the hope of those who have dealt with the pain, guilt and suffering of suicide in their lives, by saying that "these ones may not receive a resurrection", is neither kind or upbuilding but just adds to their pain. Even the slave has not said this, so what gives you the right to make such a statement. Do you not think that maybe these ones are already worried about such an outcome, that maybe they fear they won't ever see their loved one(s) again because of the way they ended their life, but that maybe relying heavily on the love and understanding of their heavenly father is what helps them deal with their pain and gets them through the difficult times.  Then you come along and shatter that hope by saying such things  and then these ones have to start rebuilding it all over again.  

 

 

Very well said, Terri.  I have never considered suicide, myself... however, I've quite often felt I wouldn't mind if I never woke up.  Many who consider or even commit suicide feel that things will be better if they are not here - for themselves and their loved ones (if they even feel like they *have* ones who love them).  They feel like a burden, a drag, a failure -- and that's if they're not consumed with excruciating physical pain that matches their emotional pain.   

 

A bit of kind empathy and compassion wouldn't go amiss here, Matthew..

[EccentricM]

41 minutes ago, GeordieGirl said:

How easy to be objective to suicide when you have never been near it, to be able to view it as something remote and distant.

To not understand the pain that these ones get to that they feel nothing can ever take that pain away, that the whole world is a dark and painful place and there is nothing left to live for.  You have obviously never been so depressed that going to sleep and never waking up seems like the only way to get away from your pain.

The reason I am objective and came to this conclusion is because I myself "have" had such thoughts anf suffered one than one major depression. I'm often plagued with intrusive thoughts about self harm too, and have suffered extisential crisis, depression to the point that I did not want to get out of bed, where I physically felt heavy.

 

I found it hard to get to meetings and on field service. When I was out there I wanted to literally lie down in the street because I felt so lifeless. So please "never" say to me, that I have not suffered depression or those types of thoughts.

Quote

 

Very well said, Terri.  I have never considered suicide, myself... however, I've quite often felt I wouldn't mind if I never woke up.  Many who consider or even commit suicide feel that things will be better if they are not here - for themselves and their loved ones (if they even feel like they *have* ones who love them).  They feel like a burden, a drag, a failure -- and that's if they're not consumed with excruciating physical pain that matches their emotional pain.   

 

A bit of kind empathy and compassion wouldn't go amiss here, Matthew..

 

 

I also had depression at a point in my life with physical suffering alongside it, for a whole year consistantly, which later gave birth to my current anxiety disorders. I had a skin condition which constantly wept and bled for a year, which itched and burned incessantly, I was in banadages all year around head to toe as doctors were trying to figure it out, whilst I was having thoughts about cutting my own skin with a knife just to get it off, going through highly emotional ups and downs, anxiety attacks and low mood.

 

 

Quote

Taking away the hope of those who have dealt with the pain, guilt and suffering of suicide in their lives, by saying that "these ones may not receive a resurrection", is neither kind or upbuilding

Note that I also said that not "all" people are in the group of those without a ressurection. Jehovah will consider mental state of course. But my words sought to build up and encourage others, not put them down, but to help them "think" about the situation as a whole, how Jehovah views things and how that spiritual outlook and influence our own thinking and even emotions. It's what I have had to do to overcome my own previous depressional issues.

 

 

 

If you want to talk empathy and compassion, perhaps consider that what you see on the surface gives away all the details about a person or gives one the position to assume what they have or have not been through in life, or are "going through". I'm sorry if this reaction is strong of me, but it hit quite a personal nerve.

Edited April 25, 2018 by EccentricM

[hatcheckgirl]

I can see in this conversation, it has triggered unbelievable sorrow and pain.  Unless we've personally experienced it ourselves - either from losing a loved one to suicide, or being in a position of deep despair and wanting to end it all - then we really can't perceive the deepness of the other's pain.  I can see what Matt was trying to convey by his comments.  We know it didn't come from just a clinical superficial "just get over it" process.  This is what has worked for you, Matt, and thank you for giving us this personal insight into your struggles.  May Jehovah always keep you safe mentally to keep fighting, my brother.

 

For all my friends here who have lost loved ones to suicide, my heart truly goes out to you, and I have no real insight that can help to comfort.  Except we know and have hope that Jehovah does understand you intimately and has promised a resurrection of all who have suffered this crushing blow.  That is really the only comfort that can help us cope. And as we focus on that hope, it keeps us all going.  The resurrection is the biggest thing that has kept me going, out of all the blessing Jehovah has promised.   

 

Is 65:17, 18 For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, nor will they come up into the heart.  So exult and be joyful forever in what I am creating.

The scripture shows the damage will be reversed.  We won't even think about the damage done, all the hurt, not the mental and emotional pain of the heart. By looking to this hope, we can cope now.  I know you all  know this. It is our future hope that keeps us going now, isn't it?

[EccentricM]

2 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

For all my friends here who have lost loved ones to suicide, my heart truly goes out to you, and I have no real insight that can help to comfort.  Except we know and have hope that Jehovah does understand you intimately and has promised a resurrection of all who have suffered this crushing blow.  That is really the only comfort that can help us cope. And as we focus on that hope, it keeps us all going.  The resurrection is the biggest thing that has kept me going, out of all the blessing Jehovah has promised.   

 

Same. I hope that any of my comments did not come off as cold or hurtful to anyone who went through such pain. It was intended as a form of encouragement and as a deterrent to those who they themselves may have come to such thoughts.

 

Actually when going through my existential period I wrote on my blog about how to approach it biblically and on a psychological/therapy level.  I write often as it helps to anchor me and proccess what goes on in my head. (As I have had many deep obsessions previously, philosophical and otherwise)

 

https://theuniverseofeccentricm.wordpress.com/2017/04/07/the-meaning-of-life/

[Myew]

I found Matt's post encouraging, because we both use similar methods of processing intense emotions. The same reasoning he uses has helped keep me from hurting myself. Many people with autism spectrum disorder, particularly 'high functioning' and asperger types, grow up with 'extreme empathy'. Emotions can become so cognitively and mentally intense that we can't focus on anything else, often leading to a flat affect. It's not that we feel any less or hurt less, but that our brain processes it through a different path. If you aren't driven to find a way or aren't taught how to channel those emotions properly, they functionally cripple you. So we must learn methods that help us to work through them before they completely overwhelm us. The majority who have learned to manage this successfully just happen to do so using objective logic, such as cognitive behavioral therapy. It is telling that this is also what the Bible teaches regarding having a sound mind. Some of the methods to deal with emotions include:

(Proverbs 14:10) The heart knows its own bitterness, And no outsider can share in its joy. (Jeremiah 17:9) The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it?

 

No other human can see into our thoughts and feelings, only Jehovah and those whom he allows. Since we are imperfect, we can't even trust our own feelings.

(Psalm 119:70, 71) Their heart is insensitive, But I am fond of your law. 71 It is good that I have been afflicted, So that I may learn your regulations.

We must turn to Jehovah's word to learn how to cope with our emotions and suffering, His way is balanced and leads to soundness of mind.

(Ecclesiastes 7:2-3) "Better to go to the house of mourning than to the house of feasting, for that is the end of every man, and the living should take it to heart. 3 Better is distress than laughter, for the sadness of the face makes the heart better."

By allowing ourselves to grieve, as well as meditating on why we feel this pain, we should come to understand that we don't have any control in this system. We don't have the right to choose our purpose. We need to change our perspective, try to understand things from Jehovah's viewpoint, and put our faith in him. We would have no hope whatsoever if he did not allow Satan's world to play itself out. Jehovah's sovereignty is far more important than our salvation, and yet he still constantly and mercifully forgives us. His way is the only way that could ever lead to a future where true happiness is possible.

(2 Corinthians 7:10) For sadness in a godly way produces repentance leading to salvation, leaving no regret; but the sadness of the world produces death.

These feelings and this hope should impel us to take action, doing our best to act as Jehovah or Jesus would, not according to our own short-sightedness. If you're trapped in the 'sadness of the world', you need to keep drawing closer to Jehovah and constantly motivate yourself to do more in his service. Please remember that Jehovah has not only kindly extended to us the undeserved gifts of salvation and everlasting life, but he also promises us that we will have no regrets when we do his will. On the very day that I was baptized, I was in significant physical pain which led to horrible suicidal ideations. Yet, because I obeyed Jehovah, I can attest to the fact that he has since then blessed me with far more joy and peace than I have ever known.

(1 John 3:18-20) Little children, we should love, not in word or with the tongue, but in deed and truth. 19 By this we will know that we originate with the truth, and we will assure our hearts before him 20 regarding whatever our hearts may condemn us in, because God is greater than our hearts and knows all things. (2 Chronicles 16:9) For the eyes of Jehovah are roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is completely devoted to him."

Actions motivated by love for Jehovah and neighbor will lead to your heart being reassured by Jehovah. He doesn't want you to condemn yourself, but rather he earnestly desires to care for you. Beg him for his help, pour out your heart to him. Do everything that you can to serve him and minister to others wholeheartedly. He is always looking to bless and reward the good that you do. Trust that Jehovah is greater than your heart, and do what is good. You will see his hand in your life.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Myew

[EccentricM]

@Myew

 

Appreciate the comments. I know it must have taken a lot of time and effort for you to type that out, so doubly so.

[niall]

I’m at work and don’t have a lot of time, but I feel compelled to comment on this because it’s a topic close to my heart.

 

I’ve heard the "suicide = no resurrection" theory before and I can understand the reasoning behind it. But consider this, how many faithful servants of Jehovah have committed murder? And is there any doubt whether they will be resurrected? The difference is that they had the opportunity to realise their actions were wrong, and to repent. Those who take their own lives have no such opportunity. Wouldn’t a kind, loving, and understanding God give them that opportunity in a future resurrection? 

 

I also have a general rule in never suggesting whether a person may or may not be resurrected. That is up to Jehovah and his appointed King, Jesus Christ - not me. I simply say that a person has the resurrection hope, and leave it at that.

Edited April 25, 2018 by niall

[Myew]

Suicides - A Resurrection? g90 9/8 p. 23 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101990648
 

We may be confident that ‘the Judge of all the earth is going to do what is loving, just, and right!’—Genesis 18:25

 

[Friends just call me Ross]

More info:

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/101990648/0/0

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/101990648/1/0

[GeordieGirl]

5 hours ago, Myew said:

I found Matt's post encouraging, because we both use similar methods of processing intense emotions. The same reasoning he uses has helped keep me from hurting myself. Many people with autism spectrum disorder, particularly 'high functioning' and asperger types, grow up with 'extreme empathy'. Emotions can become so cognitively and mentally intense that we can't focus on anything else, often leading to a flat affect. It's not that we feel any less or hurt less, but that our brain processes it through a different path. If you aren't driven to find a way or aren't taught how to channel those emotions properly, they functionally cripple you. So we must learn methods that help us to work through them before they completely overwhelm us. The majority who have learned to manage this successfully just happen to do so using objective logic, such as cognitive behavioral therapy. It is telling that this is also what the Bible teaches regarding having a sound mind. Some of the methods to deal with emotions include:

 

Thank you for this post .. and everything else you wrote in it.  Matthew and I have had a long, private chat and we understand each others position a lot clearer now. 

 

2 hours ago, Myew said:

Suicides - A Resurrection? g90 9/8 p. 23 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101990648
 

We may be confident that ‘the Judge of all the earth is going to do what is loving, just, and right!’—Genesis 18:25

 

For some reason I hadn't seen this article before, despite researching the subject many times, so thatk you for sharing it. 

[ChocoBro]

On 24.4.2018 at 6:10 PM, EccentricM said:

Important to remember too that suicide is a form of murder. A murder of the self. Now not all, but some who take their own lives may forfeit a resurrection. If you note that all suicides in the Bible were people who were sinners. Saul, Judas, etc.

Although Saul was a sinner, we do not know if he forfeited his resurrection, as is the case with most others who committed suicide in the Bible (Zimri, Abimelech, Ahitophel etc.) as opposed to Judas, of whom we know that he will not receive a resurrection. Another person you forgot to mention was Samson, who was even a "suicide-bomber" of sorts. (Judges 16:30). Jehovah even helped him end his life the way he did.

 

Job's wife kept telling Job to "curse God and die" and yet there is no indication Job was not blessed with children from the very same wife. If Job had committed suicide, his example would simply not be in the Bible today, because it would be of no merit. And yet, this does not mean Jehovah would not have had any understanding and forgiveness for his decision to end his life and resurrected Job along with his children in the future.

 

I personally HATE this subject because people always try to simplify what may possibly be the most complex issue in regard to human emotions and human suffering. There is no black and white here. The Church came up with stupid rules like "well the last thing you did is commit a sin, so you had no time to ask for forgiveness, so God can't forgive you, so all suicides end up in hell!" and we don't resort to that kind of man-made logic.

 

I live with depression and anxiety and my wife suffers from chronic pains from her rheumatoid arthritis, and literally nobody understands what we're going through except for Jehovah. I have had a half a dozen worldly friends who commited suicide for several reasons in the past decade or so, some completely impossible for us to understand or impossible to foresee. What I noticed in a lot of cases is that despite the suffering their decision caused, all of their (worldly) friends and family members were able to understand the step and forgive the person who commited suicide, so I see no reason why Jehovah is not able to do the same.

 

Having said that, as for us who know Jehovah and the sanctity of life, we do well to endure and use our resolve and endurance to bring praise to Jehovah and to make his power "perfect in weakness." according to 2 Corinthians 12

 

[EccentricM]

2 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

Another person you forgot to mention was Samson,

 

 

On 24/04/2018 at 5:10 PM, EccentricM said:

. Only Samson where he brought down the temple around him. And this was a form of sacrifice as opposed to self murder.

 

 

Quote

Job's wife kept telling Job to "curse God and die" and yet there is no indication Job was not blessed with children from the very same wife. If Job had committed suicide, his example would simply not be in the Bible today, because it would be of no merit. And yet, this does not mean Jehovah would not have had any understanding and forgiveness for his decision to end his life and resurrected Job along with his children in the future.

 

I personally HATE this subject because people always try to simplify what may possibly be the most complex issue in regard to human emotions and human suffering. There is no black and white here.

 

On 25/04/2018 at 12:52 AM, EccentricM said:

Note that I also said that not "all" people are in the group of those without a ressurection. Jehovah will consider mental state of course.

 

[ChocoBro]

20 hours ago, EccentricM said:

 

Only Samson where he brought down the temple around him. And this was a form of sacrifice as opposed to self murder.

 

 

To me, that seems like semantics at best, though I tend to disagree actually. Some of Samson's last words were

 

Quote

please, just this once, O God, and let me take revenge on the Phi·lisʹtines for one of my two eyes. [...]

Let me die with the Phi·lisʹtines!

To me the account reads more like Samson felt extremely humiliated and ashamed and betrayed, and that he had brought shame on Jehovah's name by the consequences that resulted from his putting trust in Delilah despite her clearly deceptive personality.

 

20 hours ago, EccentricM said:

 

Note that I also said that not "all" people are in the group of those without a ressurection. Jehovah will consider mental state of course.

 

I don't know why an ordinary suicide would be handled any different than any other, ordinary sinner that died ahead of Armageddon, like a soldier, pirate or robber or prostitute, but to the best of my knowledge, all those that died paid the wages of their sin, whatever that may have been, and whatever their "mental state" would have been. So no, I don't think suicide is any different than any other wrongdoing, and I don't think it's wise to put suicide on any pedestal when it comes to how Jehovah judges it, especially since the Bible makes no indication about this. There is only one sin beyond forgiveness, the sin against the Holy Spirit.

[EccentricM]

Fair points

 

I just recall a long time ago when an Elder went through the Bible Teach book with me before I was baptised, he said that a Witness should not consider taking his own life because he may forfit ressurection, especially if he tries to do it as a "short cut" to the new system. And then we went through other means of taking one's own life willingly (meaning no mental disturbances being the cause).

 

I think I recall something similar in a talk or from other people in my congregation too a good while back.

Edited April 30, 2018 by EccentricM

[ChocoBro]

1 hour ago, EccentricM said:

I just recall a long time ago when an Elder went through the Bible Teach book with me before I was baptised, he said that a Witness should not consider taking his own life because he may forfeit ressurection, especially if he tries to do it as a "short cut" to the new system.

 

Of course, suicide is clearly a violation of the sanctity of life. I think if that weren't clear to most Christians, there would be far more suicides among us since this system is unbearable to anybody with even the remotest sense of justice. Still, we shouldn't judge the few brothers and sisters who make such a terrible choice.

 

Beyond that, when you mentioned it as a "short cut", that thought is easily refuted by the concept of the useless slave who buried his talent

Quote

Finally the slave who had received the one talent came forward and said: ‘Master, I knew you to be a demanding man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. So I grew afraid and went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ [...] Well, then, you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my coming I would have received it back with interest.

“‘Therefore, take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.’

Jehovah knows that for some of us, it is impossible to achieve as much as some others may be able to achieve. And he knows that for some of us, even to achieve a bare minimum of progress can be hard within this system. Jehovah knows that some of us keep failing at meeting his expectations, and he even understands that. But he does expect us to try our very best.

 

Still, having said that, I maintain what I wrote above, in the end, there is no simple cookie-cutter approach to suicide.

[GeordieGirl]

2 hours ago, EccentricM said:

Fair points

 

I just recall a long time ago when an Elder went through the Bible Teach book with me before I was baptised, he said that a Witness should not consider taking his own life because he may forfit ressurection, especially if he tries to do it as a "short cut" to the new system. And then we went through other means of taking one's own life willingly (meaning no mental disturbances being the cause).

 

I think I recall something similar in a talk or from other people in my congregation too a good while back.

 

There is a huge responsibilty on those of us who teach God's word, to teach accurately what the scriptures say ... not what our own interpretation is and some step past what is written and put in their own opinions. I don't think anyone in their 'right' mind is going to kill themselves as a short cut to the new system and the scriptures don't say, 'the wages that sin pays is death ... except for some of those who take their own life'.  

 

Imagine having a bible study and saying something like to someone who has lost a dear loved one by suicide.  I wonder how long their hope would last or how loving they would consider Jehovah to be.

[Lance]

Well fortunately no human has the last word on matters.

I have been down this path unfortunately too many times with friends and congregation members... here are few things I have learned.

 

1) majority of people have no clue as to all the issues involved...

2) Most people who try to commit suicide don’t want to die ... they just want the pain or issue to stop.

3) There is a lot of self blame for not seeing the signs that lead up to a suicide or attempted one.

4) Don’ be afraid to talk about difficult issues as a loving firm friend.

5)Be proactive in getting professional help.

6) Pray with and for your friend.

7) It is not about shame, it is about getting help to cope.

8) Disruptive sleep problems..

Just some observations....

Edited April 30, 2018 by Lance

[Life4u]

Even chemical and or hormonal imbalances can throw some off from thinking properly, thus making them unable to think rationally enough to not commit suicide. That is why they may need help in the form of therapy and or medication. However!, these forms of help don't always keep working or never work at all. 

 

Even doctor's say some may need additional or different types of help from different forms of help. I know I've been told that even with medical doctors.

 

So who knows why some can avoid fulfilling those impulses of committing suicide and others can't. We can't see the whole picture with our imperfect eyes of understanding, brains and simply imperfections. Jehovah and his son Jesus don't have such a limits. 

 

We don't have the right to say what may cause someone to commit suicide, what they will experience after this life. Imho! For one thing, these people already have low opinions of themselves from whatever causes and may thereby, go ahead and do it because if they already feel the lowest of hope,  that will take away any amount left, and may make them go ahead and commit suicide.

 

We are not mental health professionals. Even so what works for one does not work for all. We don't know people DNAs make-up and the F S, have told us not to recommended any health recommendations whether they be medical or mental.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Life4u

[Greg Dent]

Ok guys. This thread really irks me. First of all the ONLY one that knows any of these things is Jehovah. He is the personification of love and compassion. Therefore No one has the right to say a person will not or may forfeit resurrection by this act.

 

The act of suicide is the last ditch cry for help from a mind and heart that cannot fathom that there is anyone that cares to hear a physical scream. That mind is so far removed from reality with pain grief heartache and anguish of spirit mind and heart they can be said to be not in their right mind at all. What they want that no one can give is and end to the pain they are experiencing. they may not even know what is causing that pain they just want it to stop. There is no physical thing that can relieve it there is nothing anyone can do other than stop them and hold on till help arrives. 

 

I have not attempted this but I sure have thought about doing it. I was working in an 18 story apartment building and I was out on the balcony thinking about jumping. The only thing that kept me from climbing over the railing was what what my wife mom and sister would go through if I did it. 

 

I didn't think about jehovah what he would think of it or feel just them.  That was when I went to my doctor for help. It took me over 15 years to get over that and figure out why I felt I needed to do that The whole I was in was so deep my wife couldn't stand to come home from work. I didn't realize it at the time. I stopped going to meetings because I couldn't stand to talk to anyone. It was 2 years before I went back. Even then it wa hit and miss. I eventually went to a counselor to get help for my issues. That along with antidepressants helped me the most.  

 

I have a lot of compassion for those that have emotional and mental depression problems. Elders do not have the tools to deal with this kind of trouble. No one should expect them to. A person with this kind of problem needs professional help. Of course friends can give loving help and support but they should not try to fix the person that is suffering. Most times it makes it worse. an elder should listen and really hear the person. Prayer should be offered but that is it. Counsel from the bible should be offered after very careful consideration along with its application. Showing scriptures showing Jehovah's love and caring may help but don't be surprised if it doesn't. If no one shows love to them how can they believe that Jehovah cares about them? Its a problem of self worth and self esteem. 

 

A person in this mind set cannot fathom even their mate could still love them. Even though their mate may be the most loving and caring person you know. Its in the person's head that is suffering. There is nothing you will be able to say to snap them out of it and to suggest that you might as well shoot them in the head. That is the effect you will have on them.

 

If you see someone having a mental or emotional crisis tell them who you are and ask if you can help them. Call the crisis line and ask them to call 911. That is the best help that you can get for them at that time. Let the emergency people contact their family or whoever. Do this even if it is a Brother or Sister in the situation. To do anything else could lead them to more danger. Do not leave them alone period.

 

Pray for wisdom compassion and clear thinking along with insight immediately. Then step in to help. That is the best advice and insight I can give anyone. The problem I had was over 25 years ago. I am far removed from it now. But I sure can give insight and love to anyone that has these types of problems.

[ChocoBro]

Something I thought of yesterday is that, often when referring to suicide in the Bible, Judas is mentioned.

 

And I came to the conclusion that Judas need not be mentioned in the context of suicide, since the judgement of Judas was entirely sealed when he kissed Jesus on the cheek, from that point on, he had forfeit his life. Very obviously, “the son of destruction” soon was confronted with the hard fact that his searing conscience would pursue him for the entirety of his life and destroy him as time went on. Desperately trying to undo his treason, driven by self-centered remorse, he wanted to pay back the money to the clergy, but when he realized that he was not able to stop what he had helped set in motion, he went and ended his life.

 

So Judas not getting a resurrection has nothing to do with his suicide as is often vaguely associated, but has entirely to do with his committing the unforgivable sin, making his suicide irrelevant entirely in the end.