The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[Bob]

3 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

The US might be the leader, but this might be the adverse affect of locking down independent people everywhere.  "I'm going to do what I want.  You can't tell me what to do.  You're infringing on my rights!" has been the loud push back.  

 

Are people over-reacting and going to the extreme opposite extreme because they were locked up for 3 months?  Is that why they crowded beaches and pubs?  Is that why the protests became so volatile and widespread around the world?  Maybe.  That could very well be part of it.  Stretch a rubber band so far and it will quickly snap the opposite direction upon release.  

 

I put more blame on this overreaction to the attitudes of the Last Days.  Unthankful, disloyal, not open to any agreement, headstrong, puffed up with pride.  

 

Lockdowns, masks, and social distancing are the best ways to fight a global pandemic of deadly proportions.  Living life as normal and as if there is no plague will only lead to ruin.  

Well said bro 

[Bob]

9 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

It's not just you.  May not have even been you.  I've seen many people get mad at the local health officials to the point they are suing these officials over the government lockdown decisions. 

I am trying to understand both sides here. The issue people have I think, is they're afraid that once States take near absolute power (issuing State of Emergency during pandemics), they don't want to give it back to the people once things get under better control. 

 

Under that, a State can order your business closed at a moment's notice, and don't have to produce any data. Locally, its a provision called "reasonable speculation" (lol the irony in the words). 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Bob

[Bob]

13 minutes ago, Hugh O'D said:

They're also part of Satan's world and Satan loves to watch his children scratch (Edit: each other's) eyes out so they're no more united than any other part of Satan's system. So, I do agree with you in being sceptical, but I also see the wide fisures and I don't blame one faction for what another faction does or says. (I work in a supermarket, part of a chain, people will come in expecting us to be one united organization, I know that two managers side by side won't be able to agree with each other and at times I have to use their internal fighting to get my own job done, I don't blame one manager for what another does though. and I especially don't blame a lower manager for having to carry out a higher manager's orders). EDIT to add that @Shawnster typed faster than me and his answer is much more complete.

 

 I'm a coward who hides behind others for my purposes.

 

 

 I don't think anyone is going to disagree with you there @Bob Satan's world is a restless sea that is unable to calm down, they were restrained by the lockdown but they're springing out as it releases (not just America, you can see it on the news from Britain and I'm seeing it in Ireland (Security Guard compained last week that the shoplifters were out in force, customers are also being increasingly rude and stupid in rushing into shops and forget about Social Distancing, etc)). But everything comes with a cost. We have to decide which we'll pay. During the Spanish Flu many carried on with normal activities and THAT is a major reason the death toll was so extreme. As brought out elsewhere in this Forum the Society was planning it's biggest Assembly of the year in Pittsburg in I think October but cancelled when the S.F. hit Pittsburg. Everything has a cost @Bob and afterwards someone will always complain about it.

You and me both Brother, you and me both. 

Sometimes I hide being the brothers too!

[Mykyl]

5 minutes ago, Bob said:

I am trying to understand both sides here. The issue people have I think, is they're afraid that once States take near absolute power (issuing State of Emergency during pandemics), they don't want to give it back to the people once things get under better control. 

For me I don't actually have a thought on whether they take complete control or not. Thats up to them. Soon enough they absolutely will trample on the rights of individuals and have control.

Just like now there will be no point in worrying or having an opinion on it. What will be will be. 

Jehovah has forseen it all.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Mykyl

[Bob]

Just now, Mykyl said:

For me I don't actually have a thought on whether they take complete control or not. Thats up to them. Soon enough they absolutely will trample on the rights of individuals.

Just like now there will be no point in worrying or having an opinion on it. What will be will be. 

Jehovah has forseen it all.

I understand. We're just having conversation. If you don't have an opinion, that's your prerogative and I support that. But allow other's to exercise their own consciences as well. 

[BenJepthah]

3 hours ago, trottigy said:

 

It seems like many in the healthcare industry are saying this not because so few have died, but rather since so many have died. Am I missing something?

 

 

 

The guidelines have been across the board within hospitals. Recall that I work on a COVID floor . We have been instructed to wear masks only when in the parent rooms. Then wear masks and eyewear only when doing an aerosol inducing procedure in the patient rooms. And with several other intermediate changes . We not wear masks at all times while In The facility and additionally eye protection whenever in the patient room ( even if they are asymptomatic and testing negative ( because the test ( when negative) is from 50-70 percent inaccurate). We once were told that if we tested positive we could not return to work until we had a negative test : that is now out the window because actually testing negative is meaningless. So we have people working here who have as of yet never tested negative.    The good news is we are really good at our jobs . 

[blacc]

6 hours ago, trottigy said:

 

It is a shame that with the amazing health care we have now that we are at .5 million - isn't it.

 

Let's not let our guard down and listen to the superior authorities!!

 

 

 

I won't argue this with you but it is clear that 8% death rate so far is not the same as the 92% they are making it out to be. How dare they say "millions" to come, when not even a million have been hit so far! Tell me, what really is the evidence for saying that millions will die. Note they didn't say millions will be affected. They said millions will die. 

 

About not etting the guard down: I appreciate the reminder. It helps us to stay as safe as much as we can. 

[blacc]

6 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

FYI : most medical staff that I work with ( a lot) have lost confidence in the CDC. They still are following guidelines but openly state the CDC is an epic failure. 

Aha!

[AH173]

2 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

We once were told that if we tested positive we could not return to work until we had a negative test : that is now out the window because actually testing negative is meaningless. So we have people working here who have as of yet never tested negative.  

You are saying your hospital policy is that after one has Covid-19 and after 2 or so weeks they can come back to work without testing negative?

 

My daughter says ( who just left for work) that they can come back to work as long as they have no symptoms of Covid-19. 

 

My next thought is hospital liability of passing it to others at the hospital if it allows a worker to have had it after 2 or more weeks but has none of the symptoms of it.

Edited June 28, 2020 by AH173
update

[Ludwika]

7 minutes ago, blacc said:

I won't argue this with you but it is clear that 8% death rate so far is not the same as the 92% they are making it out to be. How dare they say "millions" to come, when not even a million have been hit so far! Tell me, what really is the evidence for saying that millions will die. Note they didn't say millions will be affected. They said millions will die. 

 

About not etting the guard down: I appreciate the reminder. It helps us to stay as safe as much as we can. 

You will find all sorts of figures quoted by varying sources, but it doesn't change the danger of this virus, many have died all around the world. 

[blacc]

Yes, and many, many more have recovered as well. Always two sides to a coin.

Edited June 29, 2020 by blacc

[Ludwika]

Yes, and many, many more have recovered as well. Always two sides to a coin.

And for many the cost of recovery is going to be a long road. Doctors report long term lung damage, brain damage, heart problems, etc. This virus is not the flu, it's very serious, and it's at pandemic levels, not like a seasonal flu epidemic.

Sent from my WAS-LX2 using Tapatalk

[Shawnster]

42 minutes ago, blacc said:

Yes, and many, many more have recovered as well. Always two sides to a coin.

Many more people recovered from the Spanish Flu than died.  I don't understand how two sides of the coin changes the fact that a deadly plague is a deadly plague.  

Seems like that's always the case, isn't it?  More people will recover from a deadly pandemic than will die from that pandemic?

 

Quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Mortality

The Spanish flu infected around 500 million people, about one-third of the world's population.^[2] Estimates as to how many infected people died vary greatly, but the flu is regardless considered to be one of the deadliest pandemics in history.^[102][103] An estimate from 1991 states that the virus killed between 25 and 39 million people.^[81] A 2005 estimate put the death toll at 50 million (about 3% of the global population), and possibly as high as 100 million (more than 5%).^[80][104] However, a reassessment in 2018 estimated the total to be about 17 million,^[105] though this has been contested.^[106] With a world population of 1.8 to 1.9 billion,^[107] these estimates correspond to between 1 and 6 percent of the population.

Spanish Flu - 33% of the world's population infected.  1%-6% of population died.  Does this mean the Spanish Flu was not as deadly as it was made out to be?

[blacc]

6 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Many more people recovered from the Spanish Flu than died.  I don't understand how two sides of the coin changes the fact that a deadly plague is a deadly plague.  

Seems like that's always the case, isn't it?  More people will recover from a deadly pandemic than will die from that pandemic?

 

Spanish Flu - 33% of the world's population infected.  1%-6% of population died.  Does this mean the Spanish Flu was not as deadly as it was made out to be?

Get back to me when they're sure about their figures, or don't bother! 

[blacc]

Can we just stop speculating about a future we don't know, taking wild guesses based on estimated figures? I mean, the cummulative effect of all such negativity is fear, panic and anxiety. Live one day at a time and find peace and stop touting the gloomy speculations of "health experts".

 

And by the way, do you suppose that because we are still alive or not yet infected, that we necessarily took more precautions than some of our brothers who got infected or died? It's all in Ecclesiastes 9:11. Do what you can to stay safe but it's not automatic or guaranteed. 

 

Really the only way to stay absolutely safe is to lock yourself indoors and shut yourself completely from the outside world. But is that practical? 

Edited June 29, 2020 by blacc

[Mykyl]

3 hours ago, blacc said:

Get back to me when they're sure about their figures, or don't bother! 

They are sure of the figures of those who have died as it currently stand and the pandemic is still not over. 

At least 500,000 have died so far. Thats no guess. 

I'll let the moderators respond to the last part of your comment.  😟

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Mykyl

[Mykyl]

2 hours ago, blacc said:

Can we just stop speculating about a future we don't know, taking wild guesses based on estimated figures? I mean, the cummulative effect of all such negativity is fear, panic and anxiety. Live one day at a time and find peace and stop touting the gloomy speculations of "health experts".

 

And by the way, do you suppose that because we are still alive or not yet infected, that we necessarily took more precautions than some of our brothers who got infected or died? It's all in Ecclesiastes 9:11. Do what you can to stay safe but it's not automatic or guaranteed. 

 

Really the only way to stay absolutely safe is to lock yourself indoors and shut yourself completely from the outside world. But is that practical? 

Its not about causing fear. Its about causing people to take whatever precautions they can.

People die from this. Many who "recover" do not fully recover. This has been pointed out to you.

It is the wise path to listen and do all that is practically possible to avoid it.

Thinking otherwise is dangerous for those who will be badly affected by it. 

 

We most certainly don't want to be the ones who inadvertently cause someone to get seriously ill or worse because they listened to us saying its all over exaggerated or based purely on speculation.

Do we? 

 

 

[hatcheckgirl]

3 hours ago, blacc said:

do you suppose that because we are still alive or not yet infected, that we necessarily took more precautions than some of our brothers who got infected or died? It's all in Ecclesiastes 9:11. Do what you can to stay safe but it's not automatic or guaranteed. 

 

Really the only way to stay absolutely safe is to lock yourself indoors and shut yourself completely from the outside world. But is that practical? 

Brother, of course no one is saying we need to shut ourselves off from society.  But for the whole world to shut down their economies, I think that means this is a serious sickness, easily transmissible that can affect all of us.  And it’s not just about protecting the health system from collapsing either. While that is part of the reason for the lockdowns, the government is trying to stop the spread to protect its citizens health.

 

For us as Jehovah’s servants, we obey the superior authorities, and we obey the FDS. We do as Prov 22:3 says.

[BenJepthah]

14 hours ago, AH173 said:

You are saying your hospital policy is that after one has Covid-19 and after 2 or so weeks they can come back to work without testing negative?

 

My daughter says ( who just left for work) that they can come back to work as long as they have no symptoms of Covid-19. 

 

My next thought is hospital liability of passing it to others at the hospital if it allows a worker to have had it after 2 or more weeks but has none of the symptoms of it.

You and your daughter have it correct. The problem is that IF they test every employee who is not symptomatic and they are all positive then what are they supposed to do? So here we are in a real life catch-22

[Shawnster]

5 hours ago, blacc said:

Get back to me when they're sure about their figures, or don't bother! 

Might as well not discuss anything then.  Figures vary when it comes to number of casualties and deaths from the Black Death, WWI, WWII, and so forth.  If you dig hard enough you'll find statistics vary for just about everything throughout history.

 

5 hours ago, blacc said:

Really the only way to stay absolutely safe is to lock yourself indoors and shut yourself completely from the outside world. But is that practical? 

Not completely practical.  So we can only do the best we can.  That means minimizing exposure.  Some friends are able to stay completely at home because they don't work and can have all their food and supplies delivered.  Others aren't in that position.  My wife and I try not to take extreme risks but we still go out some - I go out to the store, we both have hair appointments today, I have a dentist appointment.  Some people must work outside the home.  

 

The only thing we can do is the best we can based upon our circumstances.

[blacc]

12 hours ago, Shawnster said:

The Spanish flu infected around 500 million people, about one-third of the world's population.^[2] Estimates as to how many infected people died vary greatly, but the flu is regardless considered to be one of the deadliest pandemics in history.^[102][103] An estimate from 1991 states that the virus killed between 25 and 39 million people.^[81] A 2005 estimate put the death toll at 50 million (about 3% of the global population), and possibly as high as 100 million (more than 5%).^[80][104] However, a reassessment in 2018 estimated the total to be about 17 million,^[105] though this has been contested.^[106] With a world population of 1.8 to 1.9 billion,^[107] these estimates correspond to between 1 and 6 percent of the population.

They say it could be this or that and then they contest it. The figures keep changing from 1991 when it was 25-39 million, then 50-100 million in 2005, and back to 17 million in 2018, a figure that was again contested. Even our publications have reported an estimate of 21 million for the Spanish flu. 

 

@Mykyl  No one said they weren't going to listen. No one isn't listening. I'm taking all the precautions as much as I can and I'm sure everyone here is, perhaps some even more than you may think. I just don't like the focus that is being put in this thread lately on "millions now living may soon have to die." We were preaching a totally opposite message in the 1920s. Honestly it seems that some of us here are fascinated with the prospect of millions possibly dying in the future. It's sickening! Some of us seem to be saying: " they get what's coming" (with reference to the worldly people going to the beach or going to protest).

 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by blacc

[blacc]

8 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Might as well not discuss anything then.  Figures vary when it comes to number of casualties and deaths from the Black Death, WWI, WWII, and so forth.  If you dig hard enough you'll find statistics vary for just about everything throughout history.

 

Not completely practical.  So we can only do the best we can.  That means minimizing exposure.  Some friends are able to stay completely at home because they don't work and can have all their food and supplies delivered.  Others aren't in that position.  My wife and I try not to take extreme risks but we still go out some - I go out to the store, we both have hair appointments today, I have a dentist appointment.  Some people must work outside the home.  

 

The only thing we can do is the best we can based upon our circumstances.

Exactly!

[BenJepthah]

       About the Healthcare Profession and the CDC guidelines. Just a few weeks back some hospitals in my area fired a nurse for wearing a mask in the hallway.   Now it is required.  All based upon CDC guidelines.  So, no wonder that we who are directly effected are generally unimpressed or even dismissive of the CDC . Although we are doing our best to adhere to the guidelines we now have no faith in. 

[blacc]

1 minute ago, BenJepthah said:

       About the Healthcare Profession and the CDC guidelines. Just a few weeks back some hospitals in my area fired a nurse for wearing a mask in the hallway.   Now it is required.  All based upon CDC guidelines.  So, no wonder that we who are directly effected are generally unimpressed or even dismissive of the CDC . Although we are doing our best to adhere to the guidelines we now have no faith in. 

The nurse should be apologized to and reinstated and given a raise!

[BLEmom]

5 hours ago, blacc said:

Can we just stop speculating about a future we don't know, taking wild guesses based on estimated figures? I mean, the cummulative effect of all such negativity is fear, panic and anxiety. Live one day at a time and find peace and stop touting the gloomy speculations of "health experts".

 

And by the way, do you suppose that because we are still alive or not yet infected, that we necessarily took more precautions than some of our brothers who got infected or died? It's all in Ecclesiastes 9:11. Do what you can to stay safe but it's not automatic or guaranteed. 

 

Really the only way to stay absolutely safe is to lock yourself indoors and shut yourself completely from the outside world. But is that practical? 

So this whole thread is about the world reports on the pandemic. If you don’t like others talking about the numbers, why read the thread?